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Red_Chili
08-13-2013, 10:15 PM
Decided an ATV just didn't make sense compared to other options for snow removal and ag applications...

34132

1950 Harry Ferguson TO-20. Good resto project, but also reeeeeally useful.
You can get cool old hardware for a LOT cheaper than the new stuff, and just as practical.

I hope I run as well when I am 63. Oops... not that far off... YIKES! :eek:

And so it begins... Ferguson has an interesting history. IRISH of course...
:cool:

art hog
08-13-2013, 11:02 PM
Can't seam to get the theme to Green Acres out of my head. Nice tractor.

baja1d
08-14-2013, 07:36 AM
That tractor looks really familiar. Did you buy it from a guy named Mike?

farnhamstj
08-14-2013, 08:17 AM
Way cool.

60wag
08-14-2013, 08:30 AM
Instead of driving a Land Cruiser with a "tractor motor", you can actually drive a tractor. Are you thinking about a 3.4 swap yet?

Romer
08-14-2013, 08:45 AM
that suits you Bill

Fishy
08-14-2013, 08:47 AM
The tall and skinny MT's will help you get through the sticky stuff!

Really nice old tractor.

timmbuck2
08-14-2013, 10:29 AM
nice!! I came to the same conclusion about a tractor over an ATV, etc. Just have not made the purchase yet. Sweet old iron!!

Red_Chili
08-14-2013, 10:44 AM
Ah, doing some research... it isn't a 1950. It's a 1948, a fairly early one. Should be fun.

You can get just about EVERYTHING for these things, original and reproduction. Amazing. Found a rear blade just down the road, and it came with chains, so looks like I am pretty set for winter. Now just need a landscape rake or such for pasture dressing and pre-seeding.

I could always make a chain link fence drag, and have Legend pull it in harness. He is doing rather nicely ground driving.

Info:
http://oldfergusontractors.com/
http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/store/
http://antique-tractor-parts.steinertractor.com/tractor/Ferguson-To20

Electronic ignition is like $89. No more points & condenser, but still looks old. Harry Ferguson had an overhead valve motor, while Henry Ford stayed with a flathead. Ferguson used wet sleeves, proud of the deck to seal with the HG, and sealed at the bottom with washers. That makes an overhaul rather cheap and easy.

Check THIS out: Reassembling a Fergie in 10 minutes. Adds new meaning to trailside repair.
E9L_0Yzb4k4

Corbet
08-14-2013, 11:05 AM
Cool tractor.

Way better for actual work than an ATV. I think the only reason they offer plows for ATV's are to give guys a purchase excuse to present to the :Princess: Look honey I can use it to plow the driveway...:rolleyes: I too want a tractor going into retirement. Fortunately I have a few more years to find one.

DenCo40
08-14-2013, 11:08 AM
I see that one all the time..Singing hills road?

nakman
08-14-2013, 11:09 AM
sweet!


http://youtu.be/jbN-jO11vKg

Red_Chili
08-14-2013, 11:09 AM
Take two old Irish tractors, a couple of Welsh farmers with waaaay too much time on their hands...

4x4? We don't need no 4x4...

DjRDnSklP_4

No environmental damage was incurred in the filming of this short. Riiiiiight...

Keith
08-14-2013, 11:47 AM
I love that there's a community somewhere who will stand around and watch a team of guys rebuild a tractor.

J Kimmel
08-14-2013, 12:03 PM
Bill,

You have to

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9yHl24QynOM

Keith
08-14-2013, 12:09 PM
re: the welsh farmers... I bet it would work a whole lot better in reverse.

DaveInDenver
08-14-2013, 12:28 PM
What made you change your mind? In the ATV thread when I brought up using a tractor instead of an ATV you had no interest and said you sold a tractor.

SteveH
08-14-2013, 12:38 PM
Congrats on a nice looking rig. Tractors hold their value well, too, and a clean one can be re-sold quickly to a perceptive buyer. Parts are cheap, as you said - I think oil pan gaskets were under $5 for mine.

I have a '58 Massey Ferguson and the floating blade system of the Ferguson design results in smooth road grading. My Farmall Super A (while a great tractor) left the road looking all hacked up.

Safety note - these things can kill you. I have read of several cases where the rear tires were frozen into the ground (during winter - tractor left outside) and the driver popped the clutch in 1st and drove the tractor around and on top of himself. The proper approach if the wheels are frozen is to try to free the tractor using reverse gear only. In addition, I always leave my back-blade attached, to act as a wheelie-bar for my tractor - that can help save your bacon.

Enjoy!

FJCDan
08-14-2013, 08:51 PM
And it probably comes with manually foot operated locker.

subzali
08-14-2013, 09:31 PM
Nice Bill. My dad has a 1957 Massey Ferguson high 40 (still running that bear cat BTW) that was his grandfather's and then father's. Even though it's a 4 cyl I have seen first hand what Steve mentions about it lifting the front end off the ground. Luckily my dad got on the clutch fast enough and there was no damage

Red_Chili
08-22-2013, 12:17 PM
What made you change your mind? In the ATV thread when I brought up using a tractor instead of an ATV you had no interest and said you sold a tractor.
I started pricing used ATVs vs. used tractors... :eek: and comparing what is needed to do ag stuff with ATVs.

As soon as you get out of the golden Kubota timeframe ($x,xxx for abused junk, to $xx,xxx for decent shape), then go back in time to the 50s and even 40s, you find hardware that not only has stood the test of time even with minimal maintenance, but hardware that you can still get parts for, and cheaply, and it was made to be rebuilt without a lot of special equipment. There are numerous sites selling new and reproduction parts, and some have tractor graveyards for original parts.

OK... relatively cheaply... I am getting hooked on the idea of really restoring this thing, which starts to add up. Like an addiction... just how accurate do you go? Do you use Tract-O-Lite lights that are pretty close, or the exact reproductions that cost twice as much? On my side, the tractor just has a couple of mechanical issues that are pretty easily resolved. One of which is the common issue of rear seals leaking gear oil on the shoes, which is handily fixed by fitting an internal seal and throwing grease on the wheel bearing and calling it good - this was actually a service bulletin waaaay back in the day! So RE: restoring, I can do the go-slow method of financing... LOL. And I paid half or less than a fully restored tractor. I can do that myself, the motor is tight and the mechanicals are fine except for the aforementioned leak. It smokes a bit on acceleration, but due to primitive carburetion. Got that dialed in as close as the system allows. Amazingly dirty, these 40s motors. We really have come a long way.

The foot-locking diff came later than the 40s - 50s. The old school method of chains, and calcium carbide, works pretty well.

Rear blade as wheelie bar... ;) :lmao: Yeah it would be on there in winter anyway.

Red_Chili
08-22-2013, 12:21 PM
re: the welsh farmers... I bet it would work a whole lot better in reverse.
Until the weight shifted to what is now the 'rear'. I was pretty amazed he got out of there without a rope. Lucky he didn't suddenly hook up or he would have met his maker.... see above mention on dangers...

Proof that there are international translations of a redneck's famous last words:
[Hey/Oi], hold my [beer/Guinness/Jameson] and watch THIS!

rover67
08-22-2013, 04:33 PM
what do you use calcium carbide for in a tractor?

let me know if you buy a bunch i'll grab some from you or share the cost.

farnhamstj
08-22-2013, 06:07 PM
Bill, whatever you do. It'll be impressive. Already is very cool.

60wag
08-22-2013, 09:03 PM
Is the carbide for lights? Can you still buy a can of carbide for use in mining lamps?

edit:
http://www.karstsports.com/mingradcalca.html#.UhbRW1XnZdg

I guess its still available but kinda expensive.

rover67
08-22-2013, 09:24 PM
Is the carbide for lights? Can you still buy a can of carbide for use in mining lamps?

edit:
http://www.karstsports.com/mingradcalca.html#.UhbRW1XnZdg

I guess its still available but kinda expensive.

Yep, that's what I noticed....

I have an old miners lamp I use it for occasionally.

So bill, Carbide for what on the tractor? does it have a welding rig? :D

SteveH
08-22-2013, 09:31 PM
I would not do any kind of super-duper resto on a tractor you're doing to use - you will scratch up and damage any fine paint work, and most tractor buyers are looking for solid mechanics and appealing paint, but not 'period correct' resto type stuff. If this were a really exotic garage-queen tractor, then this rule might not apply. YMMV.

Red_Chili
08-23-2013, 02:06 PM
Bill,

You have to

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9yHl24QynOM

YouTube is blocked at work so this is the first time I watched that...

AAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Knowing how a tractor handles at speed, that really IS a terror!! For the DRIVER!

How to ruin a perfectly serviceable tractor, though... useless now.

Red_Chili
08-23-2013, 02:11 PM
Yep, that's what I noticed....

I have an old miners lamp I use it for occasionally.

So bill, Carbide for what on the tractor? does it have a welding rig? :D
DOH! Forgot to engage the brain. Calcium carbide would be exceedingly dangerous...

I was thinking calcium chloride...when I typed calcium carbide... sorry guys. You put it in the tubes as an antifreeze for water. Works terrifically for traction (as long as you don't have a pinhole leak, it can be quite corrosive... you'll know it if you do...).

Red_Chili
08-23-2013, 02:24 PM
I would not do any kind of super-duper resto on a tractor you're doing to use - you will scratch up and damage any fine paint work, and most tractor buyers are looking for solid mechanics and appealing paint, but not 'period correct' resto type stuff. If this were a really exotic garage-queen tractor, then this rule might not apply. YMMV.
True until you get to the classic ones. But even then, function can override correctness. 6V systems vs. 12V conversions, for instance. I think the new lights sitting in the garage are close enough, and don't want to jump through hoops to get the 6V 'correct' lights functional at the same level.

Thinking about modernizing the carb too for the same reason. Not urgent, runs fine, if dirty.

I'm not gonna dump a TON on it, but I did get some decent paint, an inexpensive airbrush, and do want to fix the little dents here and there. Fender skins are $89 primed for instance... the hood is like $449 so I will be attempting to get it looking nice my own darn self. Started on it.

The two functional areas needing attention are the gear oil leak on brake shoes, and overhauling the steering box. All those parts on order... bushings from the states, a modern seal set to replace the rawhide seals, from England (like, twelve pounds fitty pence to buy and deliver them. Kinda expensive for seals, but not a frequent item since I will be replacing gear oil with grease in the steering box, which was a factory service bulletin 55 years ago :cool:). It won't be horrendous. Having someone ELSE do it, would be.

Found a guy in Lyons who sold me an English harrow (chain harrow). It's the shiz for busting up horse manure dragging one way, even seeding prep dragging the other. I want to weld together a pipe arrangement so I can just lift it on the 3 point and move between pastures instead of unhooking all of it to avoid ripping up the driveway. Pretty much set now for implements.

Red_Chili
08-23-2013, 02:42 PM
I see that one all the time..Singing hills road?
Sorry, missed your post. Yup. I guess it's been there for a while. I saw his original price, way too high.

It was waiting to come home with me.

SteveH
08-23-2013, 04:22 PM
Yes on the 12v conversion - My Farmall Super A started ok with 6v, but my Ford 9N was a disaster. It was *so* nice with 12v - quick cranking, instant starting, cheap lights and cheap 12v car batteries. It was cheaper to convert it to 12v than it was to buy a good 6v tractor battery!

Red_Chili
08-26-2013, 06:53 AM
I'm finding that someone in this tractor's life was a bit hamfisted. The rear bearing or seal was replaced on the left halfshaft, and there are beat marks on the shrink collar bearing retainer. That has to have been a LONG time ago, because this thing's been leaking gear oil onto the rear brakes for a LONG time. Even found a piece of steel resting next to the tapered roller bearing... :eek: doesn't quite look like a pinion tooth or spider, but it is a chunk of something. No indication that anything is [still] broken, so I am chalking it up to the sledgehammer mechanic who messed with it a couple decades ago.

Anywho, the real fix for the leaking axle seal is a clever arrangement called a "sure seal", that covers the bearing and fits perfectly into the backing plate/bearing mount. Rather than rely on gear oil to lube the bearing, the user now packs it with grease and calls it done. Sure easier than replacing the OTHER axle seal. The grease should stay put rather well.

The halfshaft and diff, when assembled together, are running on tapered rollers, with preload set by shims in the end of the trumpet housing. The axle/halfshaft is a precision length, and it doesn't free float in the splines, but rests on the diff in such a way as to determine the distance between bearings. They say the shims seal, but I put a thin coat of FIPG on them just to ensure they do. No idea how to TELL how much preload is on the bearings, so I will just trust and reassemble. Darn robust assembly. Makes Toyota rear axles look flimsy.

The brake shoes cleaned up quite nicely in a tub of brake cleaner, after I let Aspen Park Auto have a go with the parts in their cleaner - for which they charged me NOTHING. Love those guys. The washer didn't finish the job but it removed a couple decades of caked oil and grease, making my job way easier. And I got a free coke while I waited.

So Big O is replacing the antique tire missing a couple chunks today, and it all goes back together over the next couple of days. A flakey ignition switch is, I think, to blame for some intermittent hard starting issues. $23. So I should be able to go AND stop shortly! LOL.

J Kimmel
08-26-2013, 07:30 AM
who is putting the turbo on

DaveInDenver
08-26-2013, 07:36 AM
Is the carbide for lights? Can you still buy a can of carbide for use in mining lamps?
Some people still use them for caving. You can (and most people do now) use electric lights but carbide lamps just work and the heat they produce is a good way to keep your hands warm. They stopped using them in mining a long time ago (as in like 50 years ago) because of the risk of explosions. But carbide lamps can take a lot of abuse and still work, so there are retro grouches that make a solid argument for them. A can of carbide would last you a lifetime and someone who bought something that size probably did so to divide it up between all his climbing buddies. Used to pay about $10 for a small tin of it and that would take care of a year or two of caving. The Englewood Army-Navy used to have carbide, at least a few years not sure if they do anymore.

Red_Chili
08-27-2013, 09:09 AM
Calcium carbide is a good thing to add to your survival kit... as an alternate fire starter. Wetness of course increases the release of acetylene, which can save your life if it is wet and you are hypothermic.

Red_Chili
08-27-2013, 09:16 AM
who is putting the turbo on
The valves are dime-sized so that might be a terrible waste... LOL

The TE20 (nearly identical, TE stands for Tractor - England, while TO stands for Tractor - Overseas, and was built in Detroit except for the very first ones, and TEA stands for Tractor - English MFG for Australia I guess) used the same block as the early Triumph sportscars built by Standard - Triumph in Coventry (complete with wet replaceable liners) so you could fit the Triumph head in theory.

Dunno why you would want to. Kinda like that V6 turbo Scandinavian tractor - completely useless now.

Got the brakes all cleaned up and back together, tonight I'll find out if they work once I get the new tire on. Stopping is good...

J Kimmel
08-27-2013, 10:01 AM
nothing useless about excessive boosted power ;)

Red_Chili
08-29-2013, 02:30 PM
It absolutely is, if you spend most of your time at 1200 RPM!
Graded the driveway yesterday as a proof of concept. It did a FINE job with the rear blade. Of course, my wife noticed that the driveway is now extremely dusty....
:eek:

So soon I need to order up some roadbase. But the tractor proved it will pay for itself in short order.

And oh yeah, the brakes work now... :lmao:

Rzeppa
09-01-2013, 10:52 PM
Calcium carbide is a good thing to add to your survival kit... as an alternate fire starter. Wetness of course increases the release of acetylene, which can save your life if it is wet and you are hypothermic.

It is also a wonderful way to power your potato cannon...

:rolleyes:

Red_Chili
09-03-2013, 02:50 PM
So I replaced the rad cap with the appropriate 7psi working unit (specified in O'Reilly's book for a 1955 Chrysler or DeSoto whatever... :lmao: ). Works great. Now the cooling system develops pressure.


Until the pinhole in the radiator seam leaks it out, along with the water pump seal...
:banghead:

Good thing this stuff is available fairly cheap... found a shop who actually remembers how to solder together a radiator. Better than throwing a Chinese 'sorta' reproduction radiator in it.

Changed the oil... it NEEDED it. Found out the oil filter access cover in the oil pan was welded shut, as many were (inasmuch as they were very difficult to seal). Sigh. Not a big deal to pull the oil pan, but not having planned on it, I had no gasket. Oh well, it needed some 'cleanout' oil run through it for a while anyway.

I keep thinking about that pretty little fully restored Fergie that came on the market AFTER I bought this one. For more than twice as much, but... ah well, I got a lot more work to do before I burn through THAT much difference.