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smslavin
09-16-2013, 01:16 PM
As I've never tried to sell a vehicle privately, I'm trying to figure out what I need lined up, paperwork or otherwise, in order to sell the FJ. Digging around the DMV site is just making things more confusing for me. I'm sure a lot of you here are pretty familiar with the process. So...

How does the process change if there's still a lien on the vehicle? What gotchas should I be aware of? What can I do to make the process a smooth one?

Thanks for the inputs.

Corbet
09-16-2013, 02:07 PM
The only thing you have to do is sign over the title.

But if you still have a lien you may not have possession of the title. If the loan is held by a local bank often the easiest thing to do is meet a buyer at the bank and process the sale there so title can be handed directly to the new owner.

If not find a bill of sale form online and complete that. The new owner will have to be comfortable with you paying off the loan and mailing title. You have to do that within 30 days of the transaction.

I would have a payoff from the bank handy so you can show that to a buyer. Hopefully its less than the selling price. You could also have a buyer issue two checks. One for the payoff and the remainder to you. That would make me feel better knowing that money is being sent to the right place.

All and all not a big deal but the buyer needs to be aware of the lien upfront. Save you a headache down the road.

CardinalFJ60
09-16-2013, 02:12 PM
The only thing you have to do is sign over the title.

But if you still have a lien you may not have possession of the title. If the loan is held by a local bank often the easiest thing to do is meet a buyer at the bank and process the sale there so title can be handed directly to the new owner.

If not find a bill of sale form online and complete that. The new owner will have to be comfortable with you paying off the loan and mailing title. You have to do that within 30 days of the transaction.

I would have a payoff from the bank handy so you can show that to a buyer. Hopefully its less than the selling price. You could also have a buyer issue two checks. One for the payoff and the remainder to you. That would make me feel better knowing that money is being sent to the right place.

All and all not a big deal but the buyer needs to be aware of the lien upfront. Save you a headache down the road.

Going through this now with my Subaru. thanks for the concise reply - I'll now have everything in place. Thanks!

Corbet
09-16-2013, 02:15 PM
Another quick reminder that is title related. Make sure you print/sign your title exactly as your name is printed on the front. The DMV will boot it if you don't.

smslavin
09-16-2013, 04:37 PM
The only thing you have to do is sign over the title.

But if you still have a lien you may not have possession of the title. If the loan is held by a local bank often the easiest thing to do is meet a buyer at the bank and process the sale there so title can be handed directly to the new owner.

If not find a bill of sale form online and complete that. The new owner will have to be comfortable with you paying off the loan and mailing title. You have to do that within 30 days of the transaction.

I would have a payoff from the bank handy so you can show that to a buyer. Hopefully its less than the selling price. You could also have a buyer issue two checks. One for the payoff and the remainder to you. That would make me feel better knowing that money is being sent to the right place.

All and all not a big deal but the buyer needs to be aware of the lien upfront. Save you a headache down the road.

Awesome. Thanks. Exactly what I needed.

J Kimmel
09-16-2013, 04:46 PM
Write out a bill of sale for each of you and don't forget to take your plates. They can drive it home with no plates and get a temp tag or plates the first business day.

rover67
09-16-2013, 05:18 PM
Write out a bill of sale for each of you and don't forget to take your plates. They can drive it home with no plates and get a temp tag or plates the first business day.

otherwise you get the tickets and phone calls after they go nuts.

also, I think it is required in CO to have a passing emissions test but most folks don't bother.

smslavin
09-16-2013, 05:49 PM
also, I think it is required in CO to have a passing emissions test but most folks don't bother.

do those have an expiration? for example, could i smog it this week but sell it in a month and still have the emissions test be valid?

J Kimmel
09-16-2013, 05:58 PM
emissions are good for 9 months I think.

a month or two? no problem

smslavin
09-18-2013, 06:36 PM
emissions are good for 9 months I think.

a month or two? no problem

awesome. thanks.

sleeoffroad
09-18-2013, 07:36 PM
Actually not. You can go to the emission station and get a emission test done. Supply this to the buyer and he can then use that to register. That is only valid for 30 days. If you don't submit that to the DMV in 30 days I believe you have to get another one. For sure not 9 months.

Sucky thing is if you get an emissions test, then register and sell it soon, the new purchaser has to get another test done.

smslavin
09-18-2013, 08:42 PM
Thanks Christo.

Side note, dropped you guys an email today in between my conference calls. Hoping you can help me out. I'll try calling tomorrow as my schedule isn't nearly as packed.

subzali
12-03-2013, 10:09 PM
Hope it's ok to piggyback on this thread, but what's the best way to take money from a buyer? I know cash, but I understand it's inconvenient to carry 5 figures around in your pocket. I know I could meet them at their bank, but if that's inconvenient for me? Cashier's check? Money order? Personal check? :eek:

rover67
12-03-2013, 10:30 PM
5k?

Cash.

Period.

nakman
12-03-2013, 10:51 PM
Cash is best. Cashier's check is second best... when you bought your house they called this "guaranteed funds." I'd be leery of a personal check from some random from CL. However I'd take one in a second from anyone I knew from a forum.

On one of the Tacos we sold, I met the guy at a branch of the bank, as it turned out we both banked there. We literally just walked up to the teller, and he said "I want to give him $--.---" and they just magically made that happen- neither one of us had access to the other's account.

DaveInDenver
12-04-2013, 07:07 AM
Cash is king. I give them cash or title when they give me cash or title. But we haven't really dealt with vehicles valued much beyond $10K and none that had loan issues, so cash is manageable.

subzali
12-04-2013, 07:24 AM
5k?

Cash.

Period.

That's only 4 figures :D

Thanks guys, I'll look into it a little more. I have heard of problems of cashier's checks being no good too, so need to ponder this.

DaveInDenver
12-04-2013, 07:39 AM
I guess it depends on who issues the cashier's check, but from a bank or the USPS it should be basically as good as cash.

Don't mix up money orders with cashier's checks, one is issued on guaranteed funds the other isn't. For example when a bank issues a cashier's (or bank) check they are guaranteeing that it's good, so presumably the person giving it to you got it from his bank otherwise the bank would require the person to actually give them the funds in cash or after the clearing period when using an electronic transfer or check.

It would be shady if they accepted a credit card towards a cashier's check (and risky since the issuer is responsible to cover it) and it does still depend on the stability of the bank itself. If the bank (or USPS, hey, it could happen) goes belly up with you holding a cashier's check from them you get in line just like any other creditor. That would be the main risk I think. Mostly for me it's inconvenient, so I prefer to work with cash.

Money orders are not guaranteed, which is why King Soopers and anyone else can offer them. They are no better than a personal check in terms of reputation and no different than any other third party offering to write a check. Money orders in the era of PayPal really don't have much use IMHO.

There is another option, which is a certified check. This is still a personal check but the person goes to his bank and has them verify that there are sufficient funds and I believe segregates the funds. I suppose after a certain period if the check is not presented they may release the money back to the account holder, that would be something like 90 days or something. The reason someone might do this is to save the cashier's check fee, which is often not free. It might not be free to do a certified check but it would be less than a cashier's check.

rover67
12-04-2013, 09:40 AM
oops :) 5k ha! never was good at math!! Yeah you're right 5 figures is getting up there in cash but it is still workable. just turns into a pain to count.



I would be careful with a bank issued cashiers check even. if it is anything but cash I'd do the deal in the parking lot of the bank and walk the check in.

this is of course if you don't trust the person.

a close friend of mine sold his motorcycle to a guy, got paid with a bank issued cashiers check, took it to the bank only to find out it was fake. that was not a super fun day.

DaveInDenver
12-04-2013, 09:50 AM
Counterfeit checks would be a tough one. I know what the ones my bank issues look like and have for security but not sure how you'd be able to tell in general. There's probably clues and for something like a car I'd probably go ahead and meet at the bank even if it wasn't super convenient. That 4Runner we sold was in the parking lot of the bank.

nakman
12-04-2013, 10:06 AM
I think the underlying point is, if they have the money to write you a check, cashier's check, certified check, or money order, then they should have the money to bring cash.

Another option is to work with a dealer- doesn't JKimmel sell cars? Thinking out loud here, but if you were down with a dealer maybe you could work a deal where you meet at his lot, then give the dealer a small fee to manage the transaction for you. For that matter the buyer could get financing and an extended warranty. This would be like doing a FSBO on your house, then hiring a real estate lawyer to help handle the title work, etc. Our club actually has a great resource for this.. ;)

I know a guy in Littleton who would probably do this for you, let me know if you want his number.

DaveInDenver
12-04-2013, 10:37 AM
There are couple of things to mention expanding Nakman's comments.

First anytime there is a cash transaction over $10,000 the IRS and FBI can get involved. There are laws with respect to money laundering, drug war fighting and PATRIOT Act that kick in. So if you withdraw or deposit above $10K your transaction is supposed to be reported. I am not laundering money, selling or buying drugs or involved with t3rr0rists so if gov't agents want to stop surfing p0rn at work and waste time looking into me buying a truck, more power to 'em.

Second, I don't know that a dealer would be able to facilitate anything unless they are actually taking possession of the car. IOW, wouldn't they have to actually buy the car, sign the title and then sell it to you? There are provisions on the title for this I think, specifically so a dealer does not have to actually have to have a new title issued for what amounts to temporary ownership. In any case, I sort of doubt they would do this for cheap. If there a loan and the amount was large, it might be worth it. For $5K, cash, cash, cash!

nakman
12-04-2013, 11:29 AM
Yeah Dave I'm just brainstorming on the dealer thing, really up to them obviously. But you'd think for an hour's time they'd be willing to earn a couple hundred bucks though, and heck if they could also sell a warranty and financing then even better for them. If they had to actually buy the truck then immediately resell it, so what- they're a car dealer that's what they do, it's not like they're really at risk. All seems pretty legit to me :)

Jacket
12-04-2013, 11:50 AM
I've always done a bank check for $10k or more. If you are really worried about a shady buyer you can meet/drive to the bank and cash it as was previously mentioned. No way I'd take a personal check.

MTSN
12-04-2013, 11:53 AM
Just a couple points to add about the cashier's check vs certified check vs personal check vs cash thing. All of the above except cash can be cancelled/voided or have a stop-pay placed on them. Even if the certified funds are valid at the time you receive the check, until the check clears through the Fed system it can be declined for stop payment. They are marginally better than personal checks, but they are absolutely not perfect and still leave a lot of room for trouble.

The only methods I would ever suggest for payment of goods from peer to peer for large value transactions (over $1k or so) would be cash or wire transfer. Normally a wire transfer costs both the sender and receiver anywhere from $5 to $30, but it is the only instant, guaranteed transfer of funds method available. Cash is always best, but if someone refuses to get cash then I'd suggest wire. I work in treasury and can talk all day about payment methods, but those are truly the best ways to cover yourself. If they complain about the wire fee, I'd just offer to pay it for them to avoid a deal falling through.

Jacket
12-04-2013, 12:10 PM
interesting. I've always assumed a certified bank check came from verified funds and thus was as good as cash.

DaveInDenver
12-04-2013, 12:16 PM
Once the bank takes the cash or you transfer funds to them to cover it, they write the check and it becomes a liability of the bank, not you.

I had a check issued when I bought a radio through QRZ.com a couple of years ago. It went missing within the USPS. FirstBank requires you to sign an affidavit and imposes a waiting period before they will issue a new check, so I assumed it would equally difficult to outright stop payment and get a refund. Not impossible, but not as easy as just stopping payment on a personal check.

Wire transfers still have an indeterminate period unless it's within the same bank in the same state. They might happen within a few minutes or it's been my experience at least overnight. It seems banks like to play the carry-trade game by holding funds overnight at the FED. Maybe now-a-days it's less likely with zero funds rates. It's safer than any personal check because the initiating bank would place a hold on funds so the account can't be closed or emptied before the transfer is complete.

It seems less safe than a cashier's check because the bank itself isn't directly liable for the money but I don't know anything about the process inside like MTSN.

subzali
12-04-2013, 01:22 PM
I've always done a bank check for $10k or more. If you are really worried about a shady buyer you can meet/drive to the bank and cash it as was previously mentioned. No way I'd take a personal check.

Meet at my bank or the buyer's bank? If at my bank, make the buyer wait until I deposit the check?

If I go wire transfer, just go down to the Western Union and take care of it there? Never done one of those before...

Thanks for all the help and guidance here guys, it sounds like several of us are learning new things and not just me!

MTSN
12-04-2013, 01:28 PM
Once the bank takes the cash or you transfer funds to them to cover it, they write the check and it becomes a liability of the bank, not you.

I had a check issued when I bought a radio through QRZ.com a couple of years ago. It went missing within the USPS. FirstBank requires you to sign an affidavit and imposes a waiting period before they will issue a new check, so I assumed it would equally difficult to outright stop payment and get a refund. Not impossible, but not as easy as just stopping payment on a personal check.

Wire transfers still have an indeterminate period unless it's within the same bank in the same state. They might happen within a few minutes or it's been my experience at least overnight. It seems banks like to play the carry-trade game by holding funds overnight at the FED. Maybe now-a-days it's less likely with zero funds rates. It's safer than any personal check because the initiating bank would place a hold on funds so the account can't be closed or emptied before the transfer is complete.

It seems less safe than a cashier's check because the bank itself isn't directly liable for the money but I don't know anything about the process inside like MTSN.

Wires can be relatively complex to discuss, and the funds availability and processing varies by banking institution. I approve and receive about 70 wires per day in my position at work (lots of financial contracts settling daily), and generally speaking from the point of releasing a wire to the time the recipient receives it is less than 5 minutes and it's a final settlment. Yes, they can theoretically recall the wire but it's very cumbersome, takes many days, costs a decent bit of money, and most importantly requires the authorization of the recipient. Granted, I deal with business to business corporate accounts, but if the sending bank and the receiving bank of individuals accounts' are at large institutions like Wells Fargo, BofA, Chase, Citi, etc. (and there's no issue with security stuff like OFAC) then it should post within the same kind of timeframe - definitely hours not days. I would say that in terms of safety, you'd be best with cash > wire transfer > cashier's check > certified check > money order > personal check > IOU ;)

DaveInDenver
12-04-2013, 01:38 PM
Meet at my bank or the buyer's bank? If at my bank, make the buyer wait until I deposit the check?

If I go wire transfer, just go down to the Western Union and take care of it there? Never done one of those before...

Thanks for all the help and guidance here guys, it sounds like several of us are learning new things and not just me!

Their bank. When you make a check deposit at your bank the balance is only potential funds. That's why when you make deposit they often tell you some or all of the funds are not available for immediate withdrawal. It's not really yours until the check clears through the system, so a week or whatever down the road you might find your account balance goes down because the check was no good. You want to cash the check then and there from their bank, then it's between the buyer and their bank if the check bounces and any reputable bank will verify funds and you want the other person still there if that happens to come back insufficient.

MTSN
12-04-2013, 01:38 PM
If I go wire transfer, just go down to the Western Union and take care of it there? Never done one of those before...


Also I wouldn't use Western Union - as long as you both bank somewhere that participates in the Fedwire network I'd just use his bank and your bank for the transfer. You can search by bank name or routing number here: http://www.fededirectory.frb.org/search.cfm You'll need to provide your "wiring instructions" which is the routing number listed for your bank on that website (or provided by your bank) along with your account number and your account name (if it's different from your personal name). If you go into a branch with the buyer, you can provide all that stuff directly to the bank so he doesn't have your info then you can contact your bank right after the transfer to ensure you have the funds or wait till you see the funds in your account on your phone or whatever.