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Toyoland66
09-18-2013, 03:43 PM
I have a '79 that was last registered as a collectors vehicle in 2008 and is now up for renewal. I thought I was grandfathered in since I was registered as a collectors prior to the last law that was passed in 2009 and would no longer need to worry about emissions testing.

Well, turns out I am wrong. That is no longer the case since passage of HB 13-1071.
http://tornado.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/sl2013a/sl_370.htm

This is something to be aware of if you have a '76+ that is registered as a collectors, you are now required to pass emissions every 5 years in order to renew your registration.

This is a problem for me because:

1 - My cruiser is desmogged and only retains the evap control system
2 - My cruiser is apart right now and is not running

Does anyone know what I have to have installed in order to pass a visual inspection? I am assuming I will have to have the air pump in place and catalytic converter in addition to the evap system. I am hoping they wont dig as deep as the EGR because I no longer have the port to hook it up (header). Any insight is appreciated.

CardinalFJ60
09-18-2013, 04:29 PM
OK...you got my attention. I have a 77 with collector plates. Can I assume Classic designation is different than collector? (please say yes). I'm desmogged, etc, too.

subzali
09-18-2013, 04:34 PM
I "just" had my tags renewed in 2010 without needing to pass emissions or anything.

Who told you you can't update the registration?

EDIT: Oh dang I read it in more detail. Looks like in 2015 I will have to get an emissions test...:(

"To register or reregister a collector's item that is model year 1976 or later, the owner must have a certificate of emission control issued under part 3 of article 4 of this title."

"Except as provided in section 42-4-309, the executive director shall establish a biennial inspection schedule for 1982 and newer model vehicles, and an annual inspection schedule for 1981 and older model vehicles, and a five-year inspection schedule for a 1976 or newer motor vehicle registered as a collector's item."

"To be sold or transferred or to renew the registration, 1976 and newer model motor vehicles registered as a collector's item under article 12 of this title must be inspected and have a certification of emissions control. The certification of emissions control is valid for sixty months."

SteveH
09-18-2013, 05:04 PM
I just registered my FJ62 at the DMV today and the nice lady (who owned an FJ60) printed a copy of the 'Collectors Item Affidavit' which was last amended 8/6/13. It's a single sheet of gobbledegook, which tells you little, but sends you to Section 42-4-304.

It also says that 'Pursuant to 42-12-404(3), to register or re-register a collector's item that is model year 1976 or later, the owner must have a certificate of emission control.'

Also, max miles per year allowed is 4500.

We need to stop electing politicians who monkey with these laws under the cover of darkness, such that it's a surprise for anyone with collector plates. Was ANYONE in Rising Sun aware of these changes, just enacted?

AHorseThief
09-18-2013, 05:16 PM
Good to see that our state legislature tackled the really important issues this past legislative session.

I think my approach in the next election will be to vote against all the incumbents.

Old40Dog
09-18-2013, 05:32 PM
I just registered my FJ62 at the DMV today and the nice lady (who owned an FJ60) printed a copy of the 'Collectors Item Affidavit' which was last amended 8/6/13. It's a single sheet of gobbledegook, which tells you little, but sends you to Section 42-4-304.

It also says that 'Pursuant to 42-12-404(3), to register or re-register a collector's item that is model year 1976 or later, the owner must have a certificate of emission control.'

Also, max miles per year allowed is 4500.

We need to stop electing politicians who monkey with these laws under the cover of darkness, such that it's a surprise for anyone with collector plates. Was ANYONE in Rising Sun aware of these changes, just enacted?

But its for the children!

Good to see that our state legislature tackled the really important issues this past legislative session.

I think my approach in the next election will be to vote against all the incumbents.

If it only saves just one life, it's worth it!


More Bull feces....I gotta get out of this place...if the last thing I ever do...(Eric Burdon)

DaveInDenver
09-18-2013, 05:36 PM
Was ANYONE in Rising Sun aware of these changes, just enacted?
There was discussion of something similar before. Not sure what changed this session to be honest.

10860

Toyoland66
09-18-2013, 06:00 PM
There was discussion of something similar before. Not sure what changed this session to be honest.

10860

That is the assumption I was operating under, I was grandfathered in to the previous law. No longer the case per the friendly people I talked to at the DMV.

I would have never desmogged if I knew this was the case. Luckily I still have the parts stashed away.

Toyoland66
09-18-2013, 06:10 PM
So what are the odds that I can pass the non-enhanced test without the egr or air pump installed assuming I can pass the sniffer?

SteveH
09-18-2013, 08:08 PM
EGR (IMO) is not a big deal, but an air pump would help. I would put a significant amount of E-85 fuel in your truck, to boost the oxygen level. Clean oil and a clean air filter can help, along with all the usual smog-pass tricks.

Toyoland66
09-18-2013, 08:13 PM
I am worried about failing the visual. I have to pass the sniffer regardless.

SteveH
09-18-2013, 08:39 PM
2013 changes are in CAPITAL LETTERS

http://tornado.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/sl2013a/sl_370.htm

ScaldedDog
09-18-2013, 08:44 PM
We got the government we deserve.

Mark

PabloCruise
09-18-2013, 09:41 PM
We got the government we deserve.

Mark

Ugh, sad but true!

Does anyone else bristle at the mileage restrictions? What a bunch of douche bags.

This is why I went to such efforts to install PS pump and keep the air pump live...

subzali
09-18-2013, 09:42 PM
2013 changes are in CAPITAL LETTERS

http://tornado.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/sl2013a/sl_370.htm

Is that a loophole?

PabloCruise
09-18-2013, 09:53 PM
Is that a loophole?

Interesting...
(I) The vehicle must have passed an emissions test meeting the standards of part 3 of article 4 of this title within the last twelve months before being initially registered by the owner as a collector's item; and

(II) The owner must sign an affidavit that the vehicle will not be driven on roadways for more than four thousand five hundred miles per year.

I did not have to e-test before plating my '78 as collector vehicle b/c e-test had not come back to Larimer county. I was just trying to beat the FASTER price increase.

Corbet
09-18-2013, 11:10 PM
We got the government the majority deserve

fixed it for you.

Firetacoma
09-19-2013, 08:12 AM
Wait, does this mean I can now register my '77 as a collector vehicle and only have to test it every 5 years instead of every year now? If so I may be in the minority that actually LIKES these changes!

subzali
09-19-2013, 08:59 AM
Wait, does this mean I can now register my '77 as a collector vehicle and only have to test it every 5 years instead of every year now? If so I may be in the minority that actually LIKES these changes!

Nope, it had to have been registered as a collector before 2009 to get the 5 year treatment

Firetacoma
09-19-2013, 09:34 AM
Dang.

Every year tests suck!

velorider4
09-19-2013, 12:45 PM
I just went thru the process of smogging my 76 with a SBC engine. I am not grandfathered in on the classic tags so I will have to get inspections every year.

I had to remove my headers and put on rams horn manifolds with the air rail holes. Put on air rails and air pump. No EGR and No catalyst. It was not the original engine in the vehicle but the couple stickers on the hood and door jamb saying non-catalyst was enough for the Air Care folks not to care. The stickers do say EGR but they didn't seem concerned with that piece of equipment being on.

In short if you have the air pump you should be good. I wouldn't worry about the EGR. If your vehicle is new enough that the engine should have a catalytic converter I think they are going to want to see one.

I passed on the first try. The standards for the sniff test is not hard to get to. You could easily do it with a properly tuned engine and/or leaned out carburetor. The visual inspection is the hard part. IMO.

Toyoland66
09-19-2013, 09:01 PM
Wait, does this mean I can now register my '77 as a collector vehicle and only have to test it every 5 years instead of every year now? If so I may be in the minority that actually LIKES these changes!

Look at section 42-12-101(2)(c)(I), the way I interpret that is if the vehicle is 32 years old you are eligible for collectors plates, and per 42.4.304(3)(b)(ii) and 42.4.310 if the vehicle is 76 or newer and registered as a collector the emissions are required every 5 years.

So, the good news, if your vehicle is 32 years old you are now eligible where as under the 2009 law you were not.

The bad news, if you have a 76+ and were grandfathered into the old law you are now required to pass emissions every 5 years.

Firetacoma
09-20-2013, 07:35 AM
That's kind of what I was reading... I guess it might be worth a phone call before I go in next time!

treerootCO
09-20-2013, 08:45 AM
Anyone want to buy a 1978 FJ40? You forgot to mention the mandated 15-20% ethanol that makes all of the old iron less efficient. This was planned all along, it wasn't a surprise to the folks that make up these laws.

I have eleven (11) 5 year collector's plates that are due in October. NONE of that revenue is going to Colorado this year (if this BS is true).

SteveH
09-20-2013, 08:55 AM
I no longer get collectors plates, in that you lay out (say) ~$280 up front, and if you transfer the plates to another eligible collector car, they 'pro-rate' the plate value severely.

So, I lost most of the 5 years of registration value when I swapped after 2 years. I'll go year-to-year and avoid this Colorado TAX on collector cars. I'd only keep the plates going on a truck you are sure you will keep for at least another 5 years.

Jacket
09-20-2013, 09:26 AM
Without reading all the details of the changes, is this relatively new? I renewed my '76 for another 5 years in the spring, but didn't have to do an emissions test.

Toyoland66
09-20-2013, 09:32 AM
Without reading all the details of the changes, is this relatively new? I renewed my '76 for another 5 years in the spring, but didn't have to do an emissions test.

Passed in june and came into effect in august.

Crash
09-20-2013, 09:40 AM
Without reading all the details of the changes, is this relatively new? I renewed my '76 for another 5 years in the spring, but didn't have to do an emissions test.

Timing is everything - good job Matt! :thumb:

Crash
09-20-2013, 09:45 AM
Anyone want to buy a 1978 FJ40? You forgot to mention the mandated 15-20% ethanol that makes all of the old iron less efficient. This was planned all along, it wasn't a surprise to the folks that make up these laws.

I have eleven (11) 5 year collector's plates that are due in October. NONE of that revenue is going to Colorado this year (if this BS is true).

'Root, you've mentioned the mandatory 15-20% ethanol coming soon to a pump near you and I've seen the ad on TV about writing your congresspeople to not impose legislation to this effect. Do we have a thread going on the forum that discusses the possibility of E15/20 so we can all see what is going on and act accordingly? Who needs to worry about keeping trails open if we can't get fuel that our vehicles will run on??

OilHammer
09-20-2013, 10:22 AM
The following states do not have emissions testing: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Florida, Hawaii, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, West Virginia, Wyoming.



For states that do not have emissions testing, form DR 2698 Verification of Vehicle Identification Number is required in place of a passing emissions test.

I think the club needs to buy a ranch in Wyoming where all of our collector vehicles get "stored".

Jacket
09-20-2013, 10:32 AM
I think the club needs to buy a ranch in Wyoming where all of our collector vehicles get "stored".

I thought we were buying a ranch in Nicaragua...:)

OilHammer
09-20-2013, 10:52 AM
Or guatemala. Either one would allow you to buy your sweet 70 series and drive it to the states for a year. Of course, you need $80k cash to buy just the truck. Doh!

Romer
09-20-2013, 11:05 AM
I thought there were counties in Colorado that did not require emissions testing. Just find a guy with a cabin :)

Crash
09-20-2013, 11:28 AM
According to the folks I talked to last year when registering the '77 40 you have one "legal" residence in Colorado and that your vehicles must be registered in the county of that legal residence. No registering in the county where your second home/cabin is unless you make the cabin address the address on your driver's license. I tried but got shot down. If there is a way to register to another residence other than your house address I'd like to know it.

OilHammer
09-20-2013, 11:42 AM
According to the folks I talked to last year when registering the '77 40 you have one "legal" residence in Colorado and that your vehicles must be registered in the county of that legal residence. No registering in the county where your second home/cabin is unless you make the cabin address the address on your driver's license. I tried but got shot down. If there is a way to register to another residence other than your house address I'd like to know it.

Well, Wyoming has no state income tax, and no corporate tax either. You could buy an acre, set up an LLC and small internet biz and register your cars as company vehicles. Obviously, you would need to show some plausible income from that business and be able to justify having a car, but that's not too difficult. I have a side LLC that sells products on Amazon and that can more or less be run from anywhere. Or, wouldn't it just be easier to pay the emission fee and have your truck running right? lol :beer:

Kipper
09-20-2013, 12:43 PM
Really loving my '66 these days. It was a pretty nice cruise in to Boulder this morning. Wouldn't be surprised if I had to get emissions done in 4 years when I'm due the way things are going.

Crash
09-20-2013, 02:22 PM
Well, Wyoming has no state income tax, and no corporate tax either. You could buy an acre, set up an LLC and small internet biz and register your cars as company vehicles. Obviously, you would need to show some plausible income from that business and be able to justify having a car, but that's not too difficult. I have a side LLC that sells products on Amazon and that can more or less be run from anywhere. Or, wouldn't it just be easier to pay the emission fee and have your truck running right? lol :beer:

The 40 blew extra clean sans smog equipment last Nov. when registering it for the first time. It came from Ft. Morgan and had been completely desmogged and it still is.

teamextreme
09-21-2013, 10:09 PM
There was just a thread on this a few weeks ago, I thought it was here, maybe it was colo4x... There was the same panic and pissed off thoughts on the change in that thread too, which got me worked up since I have a 76 with collector plates. If I'm reading right, the OP had issues and they wouldn't let him re-register? I think everyone's getting worked up for no reason, at least for those who are grandfathered.

In regards to those grandfathered, I don't think there is any change. I just registered mine in August, via the mail, with no problems. Read the law carefully again, pertinent words highlighted by myself..

"Model year 1976 or later that was registered as a collector's item prior to September 1, 2009; except that a vehicle so registered is not eligible for registration as a collector's item upon sale or transfer to a new owner; or

(c) A model year at least thirty-two years old; except that, if the vehicle is being registered in the program area, as defined in section 42-4-304:

(I) The vehicle must have passed an emissions test meeting the standards of part 3 of article 4 of this title within the last twelve months before being INITIALLY registered by the owner as a collector's item"

In other words, if it's currently registered as collector, then still no emissions should be required because you're not INITIALLY registering it, you're renewing it.

What am I missing??

Rezarf
09-22-2013, 09:08 PM
So what are the odds that I can pass the non-enhanced test without the egr or air pump installed assuming I can pass the sniffer?

I passed last time without any smog equipment... I did pass the sniffer.:thumb:

subzali
09-23-2013, 02:47 PM
There was just a thread on this a few weeks ago, I thought it was here, maybe it was colo4x... There was the same panic and pissed off thoughts on the change in that thread too, which got me worked up since I have a 76 with collector plates. If I'm reading right, the OP had issues and they wouldn't let him re-register? I think everyone's getting worked up for no reason, at least for those who are grandfathered.

In regards to those grandfathered, I don't think there is any change. I just registered mine in August, via the mail, with no problems. Read the law carefully again, pertinent words highlighted by myself..

"Model year 1976 or later that was registered as a collector's item prior to September 1, 2009; except that a vehicle so registered is not eligible for registration as a collector's item upon sale or transfer to a new owner; or

(c) A model year at least thirty-two years old; except that, if the vehicle is being registered in the program area, as defined in section 42-4-304:

(I) The vehicle must have passed an emissions test meeting the standards of part 3 of article 4 of this title within the last twelve months before being INITIALLY registered by the owner as a collector's item"

In other words, if it's currently registered as collector, then still no emissions should be required because you're not INITIALLY registering it, you're renewing it.

What am I missing??

You have to read further down. 42-12-101 defines what is a collector vehicle. My 1977 FJ40 registered as a collector's vehicle before 2009 is considered to be a collector's vehicle under the law. The difference is that you can now register, say, a 1977 FJ40 as a collector vehicle as long as you meet the requirements for the emissions test.

The other difference is here, and applies to ALL collector vehicles, even the ones that were grandfathered in. 42-4-304 says this: "the executive director shall establish a biennial inspection schedule for 1982 and newer model vehicles, an annual inspection schedule for 1981 and older model vehicles, and a five-year inspection schedule for a 1976 or newer motor vehicle registered as a collector's item."

Additionally, 42-4-310 says, "To be sold or transferred or to renew the registration, 1976 and newer model motor vehicles registered as a collector's item under article 12 of this title must be inspected and have a certification of emissions control. The certification of emissions control is valid for sixty months." <----This part is different for those of us that got grandfathered into the collector program.

subzali
09-23-2013, 03:35 PM
Aha - here it is on the Aircare website:
House Bill 13-1071 Summary
Changes the definition of a collector’s item to include vehicles that are 32 years old and older.
Requires vehicles model year 1976 and later to comply with emissions testing requirements upon registration and re-registration.
Requires the vehicle owner of a collector’s item to sign an affidavit acknowledging that the vehicle will not be driven on roadways more than 4,500 miles per year.

Who Does the Bill Impact?
Motorists who own a vehicle at least 32 years old are now able to register the vehicle as a collector’s item.
Motorists who own a 1976 and newer model year vehicle that was registered as a collector’s item prior to September 2009. Beginning August 7th, 2013, to re-register a collector’s item that is model year 1976 or later, the owner must have a certificate of emissions compliance.

Benefits to Vehicle Owners [hint: there are no benefits to those who were already grandfathered in and had emissions-exempt status]
Increases the number of vehicles that may qualify as a collector’s item.
Allows vehicles model year 1976 and later, that are registered as a collector’s item, to comply with emissions requirements every five years instead of on an annual or biannual cycle.
Allows vehicles model year 1976 and later, that are registered as a collector’s item, to complete the license plate renewal process every five years instead of annually.

Hulk
09-23-2013, 05:37 PM
2013 - 32 years = 1981. So if I bought back my old FJ40, at least I could get collector's plates again and would only need to get it emissions tested every 5 years. That's certainly better than previous for new owners of old vehicles.

I wonder: Where did they come up with 32 years? Such an odd number.

nuclearlemon
09-23-2013, 06:35 PM
2013 - 32 years = 1981. So if I bought back my old FJ40, at least I could get collector's plates again and would only need to get it emissions tested every 5 years. That's certainly better than previous for new owners of old vehicles.

I wonder: Where did they come up with 32 years? Such an odd number.

i believe the emissions regulations changed in 82. hence the stricter testing for 82 and newer at scarecare colorado stations

CardinalFJ60
09-23-2013, 06:47 PM
I have a build date of 11/76, too bad it's model year and not build date. :(

subzali
09-23-2013, 08:21 PM
I have a build date of 11/76, too bad it's model year and not build date. :(

Yeah, but yours and mine are still 2 years too late. 10/76 here

teamextreme
09-23-2013, 11:21 PM
Sonofabitch. I double checked when I registered it and it was actually early July, so I guess I just squeeked in and at least got a 5 year reprieve from needing an e-test. This sucks. Of course they'll probably change things again before I have to renew again.

jps8460
09-23-2013, 11:57 PM
I've been hording emissions parts for quite some time. If you need to borrow some stuff to get you passed PM me. I have a kit (full exhaust, intake carb everything) that I swap on to pass emissions. then I go back to a desmog for a 4mpg and 15 or so HP increase for driving. It's an 8hr ass beating, but worth it for the trips that I do.

or just get a PO box in summit county or something so that you can register up there. Sorry if I' repeating info, didn't take the time to read all of the replies.

subzali
09-24-2013, 06:20 AM
Sonofabitch. I double checked when I registered it and it was actually early July, so I guess I just squeeked in and at least got a 5 year reprieve from needing an e-test. This sucks. Of course they'll probably change things again before I have to renew again.

Maybe, but it won't get any better. Only more restrictive

teamextreme
09-24-2013, 10:04 AM
I've been hording emissions parts for quite some time. If you need to borrow some stuff to get you passed PM me.

or just get a PO box in summit county or something so that you can register up there. Sorry if I' repeating info, didn't take the time to read all of the replies.

Thanks, mine's a SBC though. Only thing I've needed to do in the past before collector plates was to have a working air pump system, which is no longer installed. I did save all the plumbing, but my new headers don't have any ports. I'm doing a later model EFI swap, so maybe a trip to the referee is the best approach, although they may still have used the air injection on my donor motor, I'll have to research. Funny thing is all the e-tests I got and nobody ever questioned the V8. Just wanted to see the air system.

I do have access to a PO box in Summit county, 2 in fact, but someone posted they have cracked down on that trick (has to be same address as on your license). Not sure how accurate that info is, have to research that option too.

Crash
09-24-2013, 10:11 AM
I've been hording emissions parts for quite some time. If you need to borrow some stuff to get you passed PM me. I have a kit (full exhaust, intake carb everything) that I swap on to pass emissions. then I go back to a desmog for a 4mpg and 15 or so HP increase for driving. It's an 8hr ass beating, but worth it for the trips that I do.

or just get a PO box in summit county or something so that you can register up there. Sorry if I' repeating info, didn't take the time to read all of the replies.

Sorry if I seem to be repeating info, too, but you can't just get a PO box in an outlying county or use your buddies cabin address when applying for auto registration. In Colorado, you have one legal residence and that is what you must use for registering your vehicle. If you have a drivers license issued in an emissions county then you are stuck with having to get your cars through emissions testing. The only way around it, that I see, is to get your license issued in a non-participating county and that is more of a long-term hassle than swapping emission gear in and out every year if you remain living in the Front Range.

teamextreme
09-24-2013, 01:54 PM
I guess they chose closing that loophole over allowing a valid exemption and creating a huge inconvenience for a small group of people? I can see someone living in Denver and having a weekend cabin somewhere in the hills with a dedicated cabin rig(and I actually know a guy with this same scenario), lets make it worst case scenario, it's in Durango. Now every 2 years (assuming non-collector) he has to drive that cabin vehicle all the way from Durango to Denver and back just to get an emmissions test done. Unfortunately for this guy he's getting screwed to prevent all the other people circumventing the law.

Do you know if that info is published anywhere on the State's or Envirocare's website?

kurtnkegger
09-24-2013, 03:25 PM
Non collector plates on my 77 FJ40 require yearly tail pipe puff tests.

nakman
09-24-2013, 05:00 PM
What if you guys just drive past a bunch of those mobile van things... can you skip the rigamarole? http://aircarecolorado.com/locations-and-maps/truck-locations/

Air Randy
09-25-2013, 07:52 AM
Sorry if I seem to be repeating info, too, but you can't just get a PO box in an outlying county or use your buddies cabin address when applying for auto registration. In Colorado, you have one legal residence and that is what you must use for registering your vehicle. If you have a drivers license issued in an emissions county then you are stuck with having to get your cars through emissions testing. The only way around it, that I see, is to get your license issued in a non-participating county and that is more of a long-term hassle than swapping emission gear in and out every year if you remain living in the Front Range.

Well, I have 3 collector vehicles registered at my daughters address since she lives in a non-emissions county. The last was purchased 3 months ago. On the first two nobody ever asked to see my DL to verify my residence. On the most recent one, the lady asked and I just told her it has my old address on it since you have at least 90 days in Colo to get your license changed when you move.

subzali
09-25-2013, 08:06 AM
What if you guys just drive past a bunch of those mobile van things... can you skip the rigamarole? http://aircarecolorado.com/locations-and-maps/truck-locations/

Nope :(

From your link,

"To be eligible for the benefits of RapidScreen, a vehicle must be gasoline-powered, of the model year 1982 or newer and registered in Adams, Arapahoe, Boulder, Broomfield, Denver, Douglas, Jefferson, Larimer, or Weld counties. Vehicles that are not eligible for RapidScreen include models made in 1981 or earlier, diesel-powered or alternative fuel vehicles, government vehicles, vehicles with outstanding emissions failures, or any vehicle weighing more than 10,000 pounds."

RockRunner
10-02-2013, 01:41 PM
Well, Wyoming has no state income tax, and no corporate tax either. You could buy an acre, set up an LLC and small internet biz and register your cars as company vehicles. Obviously, you would need to show some plausible income from that business and be able to justify having a car, but that's not too difficult. I have a side LLC that sells products on Amazon and that can more or less be run from anywhere. Or, wouldn't it just be easier to pay the emission fee and have your truck running right? lol :beer:

Working on that now for all our vehicles but another state. Same idea just a little different set up, pay for LLC but save $1000's a year on registrations.

Rzeppa
11-30-2013, 10:33 PM
Just one data point here, I just received my 5 year renewal for my 1971 FJ40 that already has collector's plates, and it does not say I need an emissions test. I am just going to pay my $183.17 and be happy I don't have additional hassles. :cheers: For this particular interface with our state government.

I just got done spending an hour and a half (on top of the hours I have already spent) wasting time on the state health insurance exchange. That story would no doubt be better posted in the political section of our forum...:rant:

SteveH
12-01-2013, 07:08 AM
I got the renewal notice for my '78 FJ40 last month. It oddly seems to have gone down in price - 5 years is now $185, I and I know my last set of plates was north of $250. I'm not complaining. I live in a non-e-test county, so that is not part of this issue.

I looked up the last collector car bill that passed in Colo., and it was a mix of Dems and Repubs that have hosed us this time - a few more Dems and Repubs. I wonder if we (and some other like minded sorts) can't find a liberty-minded rep to sponsor something consistent and easy to follow to revised the collector car bill? The regs that gets passed seem always to be a hodge-podge of slapped-together junk that makes life difficult for collector car owners. I understand that the rolling 25 year deal was opposed (a few years back) by a collector car group who didn't want to see collector plates on 25 year old Japanese stuff (it was 'too new' for them).

My conclusion is this: we are supposed to be represented by our state house critters, and yet we're merely victims of the whims of whatever klutzes there cobble together a collector car bill every few years. I agree that the goal is to marginalize/outlaw those 'old unsafe stinkers' where possible and practical.

Steve

nuclearlemon
12-01-2013, 07:26 AM
Just one data point here, I just received my 5 year renewal for my 1971 FJ40 that already has collector's plates, and it does not say I need an emissions test.

from the first post "This is something to be aware of if you have a '76+ that is registered as a collectors, you are now required to pass emissions every 5 years in order to renew your registration."

treerootCO
12-01-2013, 08:28 AM
December of 1978... No emissions required. Renewed for 5 more years :)
35616

Rzeppa
12-02-2013, 07:55 PM
from the first post "This is something to be aware of if you have a '76+ that is registered as a collectors, you are now required to pass emissions every 5 years in order to renew your registration."

Oh thanks Ige, I musta spaced that out. I started following this thread back when it started but prolly didn't remember that. I wonder what's up with Mike getting his '78 done without having to get tested? My '78 (Dec 1977 build date) FJ45 will be up for renewal next year for it's collector plates.

Completely off-topic, but your article in High Trails (part 2) about Annie is just outstanding!

subzali
12-02-2013, 08:16 PM
Oh thanks Ige, I musta spaced that out. I started following this thread back when it started but prolly didn't remember that. I wonder what's up with Mike getting his '78 done without having to get tested? My '78 (Dec 1977 build date) FJ45 will be up for renewal next year for it's collector plates.

Completely off-topic, but your article in High Trails (part 2) about Annie is just outstanding!

I'm curious too about Mike. Jeff, your 45 didn't have emissions equipment originally did it? If not then you probably won't be on the hook to pass emissions.

Air Randy
12-03-2013, 11:00 AM
Regarding the original question, I can tell you that when I took the Blue Mule (74 FJ40) in for emissions testing it did not have an air pump and I had plugged the air injection holes and it had an after market exhaust header. All they did was a sniff test and never opened the hood. At that time it was running on 5 cylinders and overall ran like crap, but it still passed the sniff test.

Isn't there still a clause in the law that says if you fail the test, you don't have to spend more than X dollars trying to get it fixed? The amount you spend is related to the age of the vehicle I think. I would think it would be easy to have receipts that meet the dollar value just by documenting say a rebuilt carb, tune-up and the labor to do those things.

Also, just 2 weeks ago we got collector plates for the 57 Chevy and no emissions test was required. Maybe because it is so old? Good thing too, because it currently smokes like a steam engine :) These laws defy logic.

treerootCO
12-03-2013, 11:46 AM
You have to spend $715 at a shop licensed by them to do the work. You can't take it to any shop and you can't prove it will cost more than $715. What you can do is prove you live in poverty and they will waive all of it.

http://aircarecolorado.com/index.php/fail-and-repair-information/cost-limit-and-waivers/

Repair Cost Limits

The limit is $75 for 1967 and older vehicles and $715 for 1968 and newer vehicles. Cost limits apply to all vehicles regardless of whether they failed the idle test or the I/M 240 test. However, these limits do not apply if the vehicle failed for visible smoke or missing emissions control equipment.

Waivers

You may be eligible for a waiver if you have reached the spending limit and your vehicle still won't pass the emissions test. Hardship waivers are also available. Call the Division of Motor Vehicles Emissions Office, 303-205-5603, to inquire about waivers.

http://aircarecolorado.com/index.php/fail-and-repair-information/emissions-repair-facilities/

How To Find High Quality Repairs

Emissions Repair Guide

If your vehicle fails its emissions test, you are given some helpful materials, including a booklet called the Emissions Repair Guide. This booklet will help you identify a repair shop in your area that has had success correcting emissions-related problems.

If you do not receive this booklet, or misplace it, you may obtain another at any Envirotest-operated Air Care Colorado emissions testing station. You may also call the Air Care Colorado hotline at 303-456-7090 and ask to have the appropriate pages for your area faxed to you.

Each repair facility listed in the booklet has agreed to be rated on its emissions repair performance. The booklet is organized alphabetically by city or town for easy reference. Each listed facility includes address, phone number, credentials, and emissions repair training information. Most importantly, each shop is given a grade that reflects its success in repairing emissions failures on its first attempt. The booklet is updated quarterly, and the scores are weighted to reflect recent repairs. About 25 to 30 percent of the Denver area shops have agreed to be placed in the booklet.

You do not have to use a repair facility listed in this booklet. It has been prepared for your convenience only. You may choose your own repair technician. However, if you fail the retest and decide to apply for a waiver, only part costs will count towards the repair cost limits ($715 for 1968 and newer vehicles, $75 for 1967 and older vehicles).

Finding a Qualified Repair Technician

Ask these questions when selecting a repair technician:

Have you taken emissions repair training classes?
How much specialized training have you had in I/M 240 emissions repair procedures for 1982 and newer vehicles?
Are you listed in the Air Care Colorado Emissions Repair Guide? What is your repair effectiveness score?
Are you certified under Automotive Service Excellence? In which categories?
Are you a member of the Automotive Service Association or other similar professional organizations? Which ones?

treerootCO
12-03-2013, 11:52 AM
adding this as it is now on their webpage:

http://aircarecolorado.com/index.php/consumer-information/collector-plates/

Collector Plate Regulations Change August 7, 2013

House Bill 13-1071 Summary

Changes the definition of a collector’s item to include vehicles that are 32 years old and older.
Requires vehicles model year 1976 and later to comply with emissions testing requirements upon registration and re-registration.
Requires the vehicle owner of a collector’s item to sign an affidavit acknowledging that the vehicle will not be driven on roadways more than 4,500 miles per year.
Who Does the Bill Impact?



Motorists who own a vehicle at least 32 years old are now able to register the vehicle as a collector’s item.
Motorists who own a 1976 and newer model year vehicle that was registered as a collector’s item prior to September 2009. Beginning August 7th, 2013, to re-register a collector’s item that is model year 1976 or later, the owner must have a certificate of emissions compliance.
Benefits to Vehicle Owners

Increases the number of vehicles that may qualify as a collector’s item.
Allows vehicles model year 1976 and later, that are registered as a collector’s item, to comply with emissions requirements every five years instead of on an annual or biannual cycle.
Allows vehicles model year 1976 and later, that are registered as a collector’s item, to complete the license plate renewal process every five years instead of annually.
Questions?
Contact the Colorado Department of Revenue Emissions Program at 303-205-5603.

subzali
12-03-2013, 12:47 PM
So Mike how did you not have to do emissions on the '78?

Rzeppa
12-03-2013, 07:33 PM
I'm curious too about Mike. Jeff, your 45 didn't have emissions equipment originally did it? If not then you probably won't be on the hook to pass emissions.

When I imported it, I got an EPA waiver as part of the importation paperwork. Geeze I hope I still have it where I can dig it up. Still, I had to get it tested, and I couldn't get it done just anywhere, I had to go to the Colorado AIR program headquarters in Denver to get a dyno test. I don't know if the guy was the actual "head" of the emission program, but he was definitely the head guy there, a PhD chemist, took a keen interest in my truck, tested it himself and adjusted the carb himself until it passed. He was a car guy and went on and on about carburetor fuel metering and atomization pros and cons of fuel injection. He was the one who schooled me that at our elevation, EGR doesn't do jack except reduce power and economy and doesn't help NxOx because we never get the combustion temperatures that cause NxOx. It made what would have ordinarily been a painful experience a fun and interesting one.

Toyoland66
01-14-2014, 01:22 PM
So.........an interesting turn of events.

I received a letter a couple of weeks ago that said that the renewal doc's that stated I had pass emissions were incorrect, and that I do NOT have to pass emissions to renew. I was able to go to the Adams Cty. DMV yesterday and renew my tags without issue, except that I had to pay a $75 late fee for being 3 months late in renewing (and I have to send in a form to the state office to get that fee refunded).

I will try to scan and upload the letter for everyone's reference.

This is for my '79 that was grandfathered in for being registered prior to 2009.

treerootCO
01-14-2014, 05:32 PM
So.........an interesting turn of events.

I received a letter a couple of weeks ago that said that the renewal doc's that stated I had pass emissions were incorrect, and that I do NOT have to pass emissions to renew. I was able to go to the Adams Cty. DMV yesterday and renew my tags without issue, except that I had to pay a $75 late fee for being 3 months late in renewing (and I have to send in a form to the state office to get that fee refunded).

I will try to scan and upload the letter for everyone's reference.

This is for my '79 that was grandfathered in for being registered prior to 2009.

I would love to see that letter.... I can't follow what they are doing.

Firetacoma
01-15-2014, 09:58 AM
I think I'm still confused. I have a '77 that was not previously registered with collector plates. Can I now get a test done every 5 years and get collector plates if I promise I don't drive more than 4500 miles per year?

I'm thinking yes but everything I see points to vehicles that had been previously registered as collectors...

Crash
01-15-2014, 10:37 AM
The answer to your question is "yes", you can get a five year plate with a single emission test for your '77 even if the vehicle hasn't been licensed previously as a collector car. However, I don't recall the clerk even looking at the emission form I handed her and I don't recall having to sign an affidavit stating that I would drive fewer than 4500 miles a year. Whatever, it felt great walking out of the DMV with the five year plates and stickers in hand for my '77!

Firetacoma
01-15-2014, 10:52 AM
Awesome! Emissions testing is my all time least favorite activity and to now only have to do it every 5 years is great!

Thanks!

Phrog
01-15-2014, 05:37 PM
Just got collector plates on my 1976. I did have to sign a form saying I wouldn't drive more than 4,500 miles/year. I couldn't get the plates online, I had to go to the DMV office. But it's well worth it, as I no longer have to get annual emissions tests. And the DMV folks in the Boulder office are friendly, and the wait is usually < 5 min.

-Phrog

Bruiser
01-16-2014, 07:16 AM
I renewed my 78 fj40 in November and had to sign the affidavit. My understanding is in 5 years they will check the mileage, do the math and if I go over the 4500, the will take my plates away. However, I have been contemplating getting a new set of gauges. What happens then? Anyone know?

Toyoland66
01-16-2014, 10:13 AM
I renewed my 78 fj40 in November and had to sign the affidavit. My understanding is in 5 years they will check the mileage, do the math and if I go over the 4500, the will take my plates away. However, I have been contemplating getting a new set of gauges. What happens then? Anyone know?

I never gave them any documents showing my current mileage, so I don't know how they would verify this.

Here is the letter I was sent, personal info redacted.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3678/11983694026_f7ea02a878_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51496118@N03/11983694026/)

Bruiser
01-16-2014, 08:28 PM
I never gave them any documents showing my current mileage, so I don't know how they would verify this.



When I did my emissions test, they wrote down the mileage. The guy at the emissions place told me they use this to make sure you don't drive it over 4500 miles per year. What is funny is when I first registered the car in 2008, the wrote zero down for the mileage because it did not matter and they knew it was wrong.

Your letter above pisses me off. I not only had to take the emissions test, I had to pay for it and I had to pay a fine because I was late taking it because I had to put the car back together.

PabloCruise
01-28-2014, 12:55 PM
Wow, what a confusiong process!
I guess I will find out soon, the Pig plates expire in March of this year. We will see what they say for Weld Co. folks...

Air Randy
01-31-2014, 11:14 AM
Things must work easier with the DMV in Douglas County. Last week I went in to get a title and license plates for a 1973 Mach 1 I just bought. I asked for the 5 year collector plates and got them. All I had to show was proof of insurance. There was no emissions test required and there was nothing said or signed regarding a limitation on miles driven. Douglas County is one of the Front Range emissions testing counties.

subzali
01-31-2014, 11:38 AM
1973 is not a problematic model year. It's the 1975-1982? 3? model years that are problematic...

nuclearlemon
02-04-2014, 10:49 AM
1973 is not a problematic model year. It's the 1975-1982? 3? model years that are problematic...

76 to 82. when federal emissions started. anything prior to that, you just walk in and get your plates.

dr350jja
02-04-2014, 09:57 PM
We need to stop electing politicians who monkey with these laws under the cover of darkness, such that it's a surprise for anyone with collector plates.

I think that pretty much sums it up!!! :mad:

Rzeppa
02-06-2014, 08:51 AM
76 to 82. when federal emissions started. anything prior to that, you just walk in and get your plates.

Federal emission requirements started with the 1968 model year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Vehicle_Air_Pollution_Control_Act).

Colorado obviously doesn't care about what the federal requirements were when the vehicles were designed, certified by EPA and sold. The original requirements were in ppm of CO and HC. Now they are in grams per mile. The Colorado legislature keeps moving the goalposts.

I assume the underlying motivation is that the auto industry gives campaign contributions to lawmakers who will pass legislation which gets cars off the road so the industry can sell more new cars. Nowhere was this more blatant than the so-called "cash for clunkers" boondoggle several years ago.

Garth
02-14-2014, 12:53 PM
I grew-up in Colorado Springs. I spent 16 years in Texas and the last year in Georgia.

I miss the people, the weather and the mountains...but everytime Colorado makes the news lately (or this type of thread) it makes me sick.

PabloCruise
02-20-2014, 03:28 PM
Well I just got my renewal for the '74 Pig (first renewal) and there is no emissions test required.

I also saw the following in the Latest Scoop magazine, where they were quoting Harold Naber on policy TR-13-19, issued by CO Dept of Revenue for the county clerks.

There are 3 categories of collector vehicles:
Cat A: 1975 and earlier w/ no e-test required
Cat B: Post '75 vehicles registered before Sept 2009 which were grandfathered in when the 25-year eligibility requirement was discontinued. These vehicles are not required to pass emission tests upon renewal.
Cat C: Post '75 vehicles at least 32 years old and newly eligible for collector series registration. Emission tests will be required every 5 years.

I think I got collector plates for my '78 40 prior to Sept 2009, I'll have to check. In which case I would guess there is no e-test, based on the above...

subzali
02-20-2014, 05:30 PM
Sept 2009 is when they stopped the rolling 25 year rule.

If that cat b description is true then that's good news but I won't believe it until march of 2015 when I have to renew

Rzeppa
02-20-2014, 07:56 PM
Well I just got my renewal for the '74 Pig (first renewal) and there is no emissions test required.

I also saw the following in the Latest Scoop magazine, where they were quoting Harold Naber on policy TR-13-19, issued by CO Dept of Revenue for the county clerks.

There are 3 categories of collector vehicles:
Cat A: 1975 and earlier w/ no e-test required
Cat B: Post '75 vehicles registered before Sept 2009 which were grandfathered in when the 25-year eligibility requirement was discontinued. These vehicles are not required to pass emission tests upon renewal.
Cat C: Post '75 vehicles at least 32 years old and newly eligible for collector series registration. Emission tests will be required every 5 years.

I think I got collector plates for my '78 40 prior to Sept 2009, I'll have to check. In which case I would guess there is no e-test, based on the above...

Good info! That means both my '71 and '78 are good to go with no e-test (until they move the goalposts again). It also means that once I get my '76 back up, I only have to deal with it once every 5 years.

PabloCruise
02-21-2014, 09:20 AM
Sept 2009 is when they stopped the rolling 25 year rule.

If that cat b description is true then that's good news but I won't believe it until march of 2015 when I have to renew

But if you renew in March of '15, then you are in Cat C, eh?

PabloCruise
02-21-2014, 09:30 AM
But if you renew in March of '15, then you are in Cat C, eh?

Or I guess it may be more accurate to say that you are NOT in Cat B if you got your classic plates in March of '10. If you simply renewed in March of '10 then it is a different story...

subzali
02-21-2014, 09:55 AM
I have had my classic plates since 2005. So I would be cat b.

2nd Childhood
03-01-2014, 04:59 PM
Last year I took my 78 to a small service station on about 40th and Federal. the guy opened the hood, put a wire on #1 spark plug, placed the sniffer in the exhaust, let it idle, pushed the spring on the carb to get a slightly higher RPM, said you passed. He gave me the paperwork and I was gone. This was NOT a Colorado State station, but a small business that can do pre 81 I believe? It worked very well for me. I will be back in April when I need to renew.

PabloCruise
03-17-2014, 12:28 PM
5 year sticker just came for the '74 Pig! We'll see how it goes for the '78 40 in a few months...

Rzeppa
03-17-2014, 11:17 PM
5 year sticker just came for the '74 Pig! We'll see how it goes for the '78 40 in a few months...

Woot! :thumb:

PabloCruise
03-18-2014, 10:14 AM
Woot! :thumb:

I know!

nuclearlemon
03-21-2014, 12:27 PM
pre 76 is easy, nothing required. i'll be curious when it comes time to do you 78 to see if they just let you through too. hopefully. not that i have to worry, but i'll be sad for the folks that have had cp if they have to test now and aren't grandfathered in.

PabloCruise
05-16-2014, 06:02 PM
pre 76 is easy, nothing required. i'll be curious when it comes time to do you 78 to see if they just let you through too. hopefully. not that i have to worry, but i'll be sad for the folks that have had cp if they have to test now and aren't grandfathered in.

I got my little postcard in the mail this week for the collector plates on the '78 - no test required!!!

subzali
05-16-2014, 08:14 PM
I got my little postcard in the mail this week for the collector plates on the '78 - no test required!!!


Wow, that's great news!

Rzeppa
05-16-2014, 10:56 PM
Just scrolled back and it doesn't appear that I reported that I got my 5 year renewal for my 78 non-USA FJ45 for April with no test required. I sent it in and got the papers and sticker back, all good until our esteemed legislators change the rulz again...

PabloCruise
05-19-2014, 01:54 PM
Just scrolled back and it doesn't appear that I reported that I got my 5 year renewal for my 78 non-USA FJ45 for April with no test required. I sent it in and got the papers and sticker back, all good until our esteemed legislators change the rulz again...

Good deal, we have to keep these Cruisers on & off the road!