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rover67
10-23-2013, 08:38 PM
Ok, light tech, but hey, we need more tech in here lately :)

I have been running OME shocks of different flavors for a while but have never really been satisfied. I have no idea what lift my truck has but the axle is 6" down from the bump stop and has about 4" travel down from that point. The OME shocks are the limiting factor on the droop for sure as they are almost fully extended at rest. They have always been too soft also... I have always liked "spirited" driving in the desert while fully loaded (7k lbs total) and jumping in and out of washes there has never been enough damping.

I put lots of crap in the back so I didn't want to just lower bum stops and throw on longer shocks....

That got me looking.

Drew and I looked on the Bilstien website and noticed they made short body shocks that had decent travel, so after a while of measuring and back and forth on the web we decided the 12" short body external res shocks in Biltien's stiffest valving would do nicely... I won't even have to lower my stock bump stops and they'll reach straight to the bottom when the axle is at full droop when in the air.

So, here are a few pics and what I am working on to make them fit.

rover67
10-23-2013, 08:43 PM
Here is the old rear shock vs the new bilstein 10" body 12" stroke shock. I am using part number ak7112sb06.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/amemeby4.jpg

rover67
10-23-2013, 08:48 PM
I didn't get a picture of the underneath of the truck but the original mounts are posts on the shock mount tube that goes across the back in between the frame rails. I am going to cut those off and use some plates to mount the new shocks. First step was to mock it up and make some bracket templates from cardboard.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/anenure2.jpg

Then trace them out on some 3/16" steel plate with the soap stone so I can cut them with the torch....

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/bu4a2a2y.jpg

The cut away with the torch. My hand is wobbly so lines are kinda crooked but it works.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/henysujy.jpg

Hit it with a hammer and the new plates drop out...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/pypyru3y.jpg

rover67
10-23-2013, 08:54 PM
Next I cleaned it all up with the good ole flapper wheel and popped a few holes in for the bolts.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/me4ade5u.jpg

The shocks came with some 1/4" cad plated spacers for the bolts but they weren't long enough for what I am doing..... So Allison and I ran to work and we machined some new ones...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/qaryhyzy.jpg

Here it is mocked up... Looks like the bolts I'll have to get will need to grab 3" of stuff plus some extra for the washers and nuts. I'll get some nice grade 8 stuff tomorrow. At least the 1/2" bolt takes 3/4" wrenches which works with my 19mm wrenches :)


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/muguvy8e.jpg

rover67
10-23-2013, 09:03 PM
So here's my question.... The lower mount on my 4+ flip kit mounts are what look like 19mm (3/4") pins with the shocks bolted straight on in single shear. Would it be ok to bolt my new shocks on with 1/2" bolts in single shear like this:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/jataga5u.jpg

Here is the original setup with the new mount bolt next to it for comparison:



http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/yrazuzag.jpg

So what'd da y'all think.. 1/2" grade 8 bolt in single shear enough?

AxleIke
10-23-2013, 09:30 PM
Depends on how you do it.

Most stock set ups are sorta single shear. There is usually a sleeve that the shock slides over, and then a bolt threads into the tube. This is different than what I consider to be a normal "single shear" which is one side of the brackets you made, an a bolt holding it in. The difference is that there is a welded, usually fairly thick sleeve that is taking the shear in the stock scenario, whereas there is a loose interface between the bolt and the bracket in the second. The second scenario allows for a pivot to form immediately, which fatigues the bolt and is ultimately weak. The first does not allow for this pivot unless the weld fails: since there is not movement inherent in the welded "spindle" for lack of a better word, the stock scenario is stronger.

I'm not sure I explained that well, but there you have it.

The way you are picturing it is more like a stock set up, and probably okay, but I find that the stock toyota stuff is WAY harder than the grade 8 you buy at the store.

If I was building it, I'd put it in double shear, just because I've had enough stuff break embarassingly due to not building in overkill. We are hard on stuff :D

rover67
10-24-2013, 10:28 AM
The pin in the 4+ plate is mild steel I'm pretty sure...

Maybe a threaded piece welded to the 4+ plate with a bolt going back through the shock eye?

I'll mock something up.

jps8460
10-24-2013, 10:43 AM
I have my front shock towers setup 9/16 single shear they are 1018cr and have taken a lot of abuse with no issue. I'll post a pic late. Very fine thread by the way.

jps8460
10-24-2013, 10:47 AM
I should mention that rev 1 shock towers were ht 4130. Te design wasn't that great, but the stress cracked and eventually broke, grade 8 my do the same, not sure.

rover67
10-24-2013, 09:41 PM
Alrighty... Mamasita said get yer butt in the garage and keep working on the 60 so I forced myself to get back at it tonight.

Turns out the new brackets work well for the top of the shocks once I cut the upper shock mounts off...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/25/jujygegy.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/25/e5arevy4.jpg

So looking at the bottom we see where we gotta make some more mounts...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/25/y4usyqu4.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/25/ypanuveq.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/25/nuqypu5y.jpg

I kept thinking about it over and over again today and I agree... A nice double shear mount for the bottom is the way to go. I am gonna come straight off of the spring plates with flat pieces and get the bottom shock eye that way..

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/25/7u6anyza.jpg

It'll be vulnerable to rocks but I am thinking beef it all up and it'll work? The original setup had the shocks down low like that and worked ok... I was able to keep them relatively ok so maybe this will work? Ideally I know the shocks would be mounted to the axle tubes but hey we gotta fit these long un's in there somehow..

baja1d
10-25-2013, 08:25 AM
I can't believe I missed this thread... I'm doing the same thing on the 40 as we speak. My plan was a single shear tab welded near the bottom of the axle but not bellow it. To accommodate for the "roundness" of the axle housing I was going to back fill the space in with a piece of pipe cut/shaped at a 45. I too am looking at rear options as I finish the front mock up. Here's a quick example of what I'm trying to describe...not my actual bracket. BTW, these guys have a ton of tabs to give you even more ideas, http://www.ballisticfabrication.com

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/25/ejapy7yv.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/25/ajeqegaj.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/25/7ejytu5e.jpg

rover67
10-25-2013, 10:06 AM
I think ideally the mount would be on the axle tube like you say... and up higher a bit..

I gotta go low to get the length out of it.. and I am hoping since the original location was down there and I managed to not mangle them over the years maybe it'll still work?

I like that link for all the tabs... that's a great resource! If you're gonna do an axle tube mount why not just grab some of their axle tube shock tabs?

subzali
10-25-2013, 10:27 AM
Wow, mamasita said to go TO the garage? That's not the response I often get. What did you do to deserve getting kicked out of the house? :lmao:

rover67
10-25-2013, 10:33 AM
She wants the rig to be ready for the next Desert trip of course!!! Can't chase dreams in the desert without stiff shocks!

AxleIke
10-25-2013, 11:52 AM
What Travis posted is exactly what I was talking about. Technically single shear, but generally not what people tend to do. The shear plane is welded, and thus allows for no movement. The typical single shear that people are always cautioning about is a tab with a single hole, and a bolt going through the shock, with no mount on the opposite side. This can allow for a lot of fatigue on the bolt, and is much weaker than double shear.

What Travis posted is a good bit stronger, and obviously works great in many stock applications.

The mounts you show marco will be great. Brace them and they should hold up find, though, if they hang down, they can be rock anchors. All in all, you gotta do what works and fits.

FWIW, there are a number of race trucks out there running a modified single shear mount which consists of a sleeve through the frame, and a bolt holding the frame side heim on front links. Working well and is strong.

So, as I said, it depends entirely on how you do it.

AxleIke
10-25-2013, 11:52 AM
Oh, and ditto on what Matt said!

baja1d
10-25-2013, 11:55 AM
I like that link for all the tabs... that's a great resource! If you're gonna do an axle tube mount why not just grab some of their axle tube shock tabs?

My rear shocks aren't Bilsteins with a built in heim joint. They're the standard rubber bushing. I've got a lot of flex as well & It's been on my mind a lot. I think that I may spring for some Bils & do it right from the beginning. A double shear is less fab and IMHO, stronger....and I thought I was done putting money into this thing---hahaha

Rzeppa
10-25-2013, 10:44 PM
Really timely thread; My lovely wife :Princess: Linda calls our adventures in our 60 "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride". I understand her sentiment in that while she (Alice, our FJ60) articulates wonderfully off road, she kinda rolls a bit on I-70 on highway curves. On-Topic, I believe the shocks need to be replaced, and during my "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride" expeditions, my main take was the shocks are shot, and whatever new ones will replace them should have a gentle intake (compression) and a very firm extension. Or should I have that the other way around?

baja1d
10-25-2013, 11:32 PM
Slight hijack but found these tonight, unfortunately they're too long for my application but a great price....$125 better get on it, they'll sell tomorrow

Extended: 34.9"
Collapsed: 20.75
14" travel
255/70 valving

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/pts/4151893229.html

(719) 650-8909

rover67
10-29-2013, 11:46 PM
Alrighty, we're finally a bit closer. I gotta say the 360/80 valving is going to be sweet in the desert loaded and running fast.

I am thinking the shocks need to be a tad shorter though.. I have 5.5" of up travel left and about 6" to the bump. When I got these shocks I was thinking I could set them up/in enough to make them work...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/30/gatyhadu.jpg

The lower mounts turned out ok.. Not super out of the way but I think they'll work and the maximize the shock


lengthhttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/30/qy2usequ.jpg

Jacket
10-30-2013, 10:03 AM
Looks good, but I think we need the obligatory poser flex shot.

AxleIke
10-30-2013, 12:08 PM
Looks good. Just stick a 1" spacer in the bump stop to prevent bottoming, and you'll be all good!

Alternatively, I have some poly shock bumps (go over the shock shaft) that you could try. They prevent bottoming and work as a bump stop.

rover67
11-18-2013, 04:32 PM
Well I went with some 10" shocks instead and they fit perfect...

But I discovered a weakness after the initial testing......http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/19/e3udasam.jpg

rover67
11-18-2013, 05:40 PM
Really timely thread; My lovely wife :Princess: Linda calls our adventures in our 60 "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride". I understand her sentiment in that while she (Alice, our FJ60) articulates wonderfully off road, she kinda rolls a bit on I-70 on highway curves. On-Topic, I believe the shocks need to be replaced, and during my "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride" expeditions, my main take was the shocks are shot, and whatever new ones will replace them should have a gentle intake (compression) and a very firm extension. Or should I have that the other way around?

Jeff, i missed this...

The Bilsteins I am running (the ones I in stalled in this thread) are valved stiffer on rebound than compression..

360/80 or 3600 newtons at 0.52 m/s and 800 Newtons at 0.52 m/s

All the different shock manufacturers rate the "stiffness" differently so it can be hard to compare..

I do know that the "light" OME shocks were pretty under damped for my truck (which weighs in close to 6,000 lbs empty)

nattybumppo
11-18-2013, 09:16 PM
Really timely thread; My lovely wife :Princess: Linda calls our adventures in our 60 "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride". I understand her sentiment in that while she (Alice, our FJ60) articulates wonderfully off road, she kinda rolls a bit on I-70 on highway curves. On-Topic, I believe the shocks need to be replaced, and during my "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride" expeditions, my main take was the shocks are shot, and whatever new ones will replace them should have a gentle intake (compression) and a very firm extension. Or should I have that the other way around?

Jeff, I have a used set of OME shocks for a 60 for sale. If you want to throw them on and try them out for a few days let me know...if you don't like them you can just pull them off and know that you want something else. I found they made my 60 ride and corner MUCH better than the old stock shocks that came on my truck. Let me know.

rover67
11-18-2013, 09:42 PM
Jeff, I have a used set of OME shocks for a 60 for sale. If you want to throw them on and try them out for a few days let me know...if you don't like them you can just pull them off and know that you want something else. I found they made my 60 ride and corner MUCH better than the old stock shocks that came on my truck. Let me know.

If my truck was any lighter and close to a reasonable lift that's what i'd still be running.....

MDH33
11-18-2013, 10:11 PM
Just found this thread. I have been wondering what route to go on my 60 as well. It has the Jello-Butt. :p: I have a rear sway bar with extensions that I could put in, but requires re-doing the exhaust. Would the shocks that you installed, Marco, basically do the same thing due to the stiffer rebound you mentioned?

Corbet
11-18-2013, 11:22 PM
Like everyone I missed the thread until today.

Another thing to consider would be a set of Timbrens. I've got them on all four corners now and they definitely take the harsh thump out when you do nail the top of your travel. I want Slee's shocks when funds allow.

pic of my rear:

Rzeppa
11-21-2013, 02:40 PM
Jeff, I have a used set of OME shocks for a 60 for sale. If you want to throw them on and try them out for a few days let me know...if you don't like them you can just pull them off and know that you want something else. I found they made my 60 ride and corner MUCH better than the old stock shocks that came on my truck. Let me know.

That would be GREAT Sascha! How much use do they have on them? I put OMEs on my 40 and after about 6-7 years and around 60k miles they've started leaking. But prior to that they were really good shocks, much better than the RS5000s that I had on my other 40.

nattybumppo
11-21-2013, 04:19 PM
That would be GREAT Sascha! How much use do they have on them? I put OMEs on my 40 and after about 6-7 years and around 60k miles they've started leaking. But prior to that they were really good shocks, much better than the RS5000s that I had on my other 40.

I don't know how many miles are on them since they came from a truck we parted out, but they don't leak, have good pressure, and look great. I think they are practically good as new.