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akingf5371
12-05-2013, 10:02 AM
Guys-
I recently bought a welder to start working on the 40 during the salt season that is winter here in Denver. I plan on doing the work in my garage, the only problem is that I don't have 220V in my garage. I got a quote of $1200 to install a sub-panel in the garage and install a 220V outlet. That seemed a little high and I'm kicking around the idea of doing it myself. The lines are run from my panel on the back of my house on a mast into the garage. I would need to install a 100 amp fuse and run the line on the mast into the garage for the sub panel. I have very little home electrical experience, much less something with high-voltages. I was wondering if someone who has experience in something like this wouldn't mind coming over and working out a game plan with me. I can do the work myself, I just want to make sure I'm doing everything correctly (permits and such) Thanks!

DaveInDenver
12-05-2013, 10:46 AM
Search the forum, there has been at least one thread about this.

You do need a permit in Denver for this.

Jacket
12-05-2013, 10:50 AM
There should be a couple of existing threads on this topic - here's one:

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=16527

I added a new circuit to my garage for my welder, and it wasn't much trouble at all. If you can determine the max amp draw for your welder and ensure that you have space on your panel for a new breaker, then the rest is just running wire.

Tip #1: Make sure you shut off the main breaker on the house panel before you attempt to install a new circuit :)

subzali
12-05-2013, 10:58 AM
Tip #2 if your house is like mine it won't have a main breaker on the house panel so then you're screwed...:bawl:

DaveInDenver
12-05-2013, 11:03 AM
Tip #2 if your house is like mine it won't have a main breaker on the house panel so then you're screwed...:bawl:
Really? You'd have to pull the meter to work in the box? :-/

akingf5371
12-05-2013, 11:12 AM
Search the forum, there has been at least one thread about this.

You do need a permit in Denver for this.

You know, I didn't even think about searching for the solution. Thanks Dave!

There should be a couple of existing threads on this topic - here's one:

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=16527

I added a new circuit to my garage for my welder, and it wasn't much trouble at all. If you can determine the max amp draw for your welder and ensure that you have space on your panel for a new breaker, then the rest is just running wire.

Tip #1: Make sure you shut off the main breaker on the house panel before you attempt to install a new circuit :)

Thanks Jacket! I hope it's not too tough. Still would like to bounce ideas of someone in person.

Tip #2 if your house is like mine it won't have a main breaker on the house panel so then you're screwed...:bawl:


:(

subzali
12-05-2013, 11:18 AM
Really? You'd have to pull the meter to work in the box? :-/

Yeppirs. Well, there is a breaker for all my 110v stuff, but for anything upstream of that, yes. I know in Lakewood this type is longer allowed by code.

nuclearlemon
12-05-2013, 11:58 AM
if you need 15' of 50a romex, i've got a chunk leftover from when i added a 220 outlet in my garage. i'll make you a good deal on it.

DaveInDenver
12-05-2013, 12:24 PM
Yeppirs. Well, there is a breaker for all my 110v stuff, but for anything upstream of that, yes. I know in Lakewood this type is longer allowed by code.
It's used to be the case with fuse panels years ago but they had a disconnect switch next to them. It used to be OK to run a split bus panel with a few larger breakers feeding into branch circuit breakers, which sorta sounds like what you have.

I'm not sure the NEC actually says you need a master breaker but it does say you need a way to disconnect all power that isn't the meter. They used to have a 6-throw rule, all power had to be turned off in 6 throws max. But I'd have to verify that still exists.

Having an obvious master is better obviously plus if the fire department ever came and found no way to shut off the power they might not work on your house.

Tramontana
12-05-2013, 07:55 PM
First off, I wouldn't recommend that anyone attempt installing an electrical sub panel, if they don't have some prior experience.

That said, I would be glad to lend some design assistance and possibly help you with your install if Im able.

From your description, I can't really picture what you already have in place, perhaps you can post photos?

Cheers, and good luck!

akingf5371
12-06-2013, 11:03 AM
First off, I wouldn't recommend that anyone attempt installing an electrical sub panel, if they don't have some prior experience.

That said, I would be glad to lend some design assistance and possibly help you with your install if Im able.

From your description, I can't really picture what you already have in place, perhaps you can post photos?

Cheers, and good luck!

Dave that would be great! I don't think it's a crazy task to under take, but I own a 40, so I'm willing to try anything at least once. What is your schedule like? We could meet over here at my place to whip up a plan over some :beer:s

Tramontana
12-14-2013, 09:06 PM
...Adam, I sent an email regarding your request for help.

I'd be glad to lend assistance, but it may be difficult to make time to help install before the new year, but we can certainly get started with the design.

Cheers! :cheers:

Squishy!
12-15-2013, 10:26 AM
I'm running into a similar project, but I'll be gutting the ENTIRE electrical system in my home, plus installing a large sub panel in the garage. I'll tell ya 220 scares the bejesus out of me. I will not be doing this without the assistance of my electrician coworker. Electrical is not something to be taken lightly and I find myself treating it like a loaded gun that's always pointed at me.

Good luck!

Tramontana
12-15-2013, 12:13 PM
...but the amps that'll kill ya! :D

240 volt is really just two legs of 120 v until you cross or join them.

A little safety and good work practices and you should be good to go. Years ago I hired a gentleman who worked as "the electrical teacher" and his business model was teaching DIY'ers how to be safe while doing your own work.

With his teaching and guidance I replaced my entire service panel and all basement wiring while upgrading to a 200 Amp service. I did everything except the final hot connection from the meter hub to the main service lugs.

Since then I have taken several electrical classes including an NEC class, and I've installed several sub panels, and wired a few garage shops. It's neither hard nor particularly dangerous once you know what you are supposed to be doing.

Cheers! :thumb:

Cheers.

akingf5371
12-16-2013, 10:14 AM
Dave, thanks for the help! I'll touch base with you after the holidays! Justin, I'll keep that in mind, that is why I'm reaching out for advice.

teamextreme
12-16-2013, 01:43 PM
The 6 handle rule is still in the NEC. As far as DIY on a project of this type, with no experience, I'm somewhat in agreement with Tramo. However, it doesn't matter what we think because City and County of Denver will shut you down anyway if you're going to get a permit (I'm assuming you live in CCD). They have a requirement that homeowners who want to pull a permit must pass a basic electrical test to get the permit displaying they know what they are doing. I'm guessing if your experience is as limited as you indicate you won't pass that test.

DaveInDenver
12-16-2013, 05:52 PM
Good point about the competency test in Denver. I'd forgotten about that.

http://www.denvergov.org/developmentservices/DevelopmentServices/HomeProjects/HomeownersExam/tabid/436705/Default.aspx