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FJBen
10-03-2006, 08:48 AM
Kinda a shameless crosspost, but I know some people look at the mud 80 section. Maybe some might find it helpful. :blah:


In a quest for bilsteins, we all know we have to convert to eye configuration on the top in rear of the 80 series. You can buy bolt in converters, but you will loose 1" maybe a little more depending on the style. I wanted to run longer shocks as well to get every ounce of flex I can out of the cruiser without going stupidly custom. I was running "L" shocks and was easily able to fully stuff/extend them.

Well, I have it...more travel than I will probably EVER use on this in the rear. I took the idea from actionjackson, modified it to work with a stock (no bodylift) setup. Basically a conversion to pin style that mounts on top of the factory spot gaining more extension.

Right now, I have sorry test shocks some crappy pro-comp 14" travel shocks on there. Extended 32.8" comp. 18.8", and I still have ~1.5" to spare on compression. I haven't lost any compressed length from the L shocks! same stuff, a bit more droop!

So heres what I made, took a piece of 2X4" 3/16" sqaure tube and plasma'd out the shape I have attached. Drilled the holes, just enough for very minor adjustment and still sit on top and used the factory bolts up from the bottom. There was plenty of room to add nuts on top to secure it. You better be a bit dextros with this setup as it's a lot of reaching up and not seeing what you are doing. The style that ATS4x4.com has is very sweet and at that price, worth it rather than building your own unless you are just bored or prideful.

Pic #1 is the the extension on the vehicle

Pic #2 how ithe drawing and the measurement

Pic #3 1st flex pic, 30 degree ramp, standard 80 setup, 14" rear shocks, the front tire was 29" off the ground at the bottom/center

Pic#4 Same setup except for the "hitch pin pulled", tire was 33" above ground


Pic#5 Same setup except for hitch pin pulled, and front shock disconnected to simulate better spaced travel/extensions up front tire 37" above ground.


Pic#6 Going backwards same as #2, tire 37" off...


You can tell there are some pretty serious gains from my last RTI thread outing, I will be adding this to that RTI thread as well. With the front in the standard setup (L shocks/pin in) she was leaning pretty good as you could tell the rear was doing all the work, with the front shocks in a better travel range/pin pulled it wasn't leaning *that* bad for how high she went up.

Definintely beyond satified with the flex, bilsteins are on order, next to get the front shocks replaced/spaced correctly.

Stay tuned, later this week, homebrew front shock converters to fit 12" bilsteins. :blah:

FJBen
10-03-2006, 08:54 AM
last pic backing up.

nakman
10-03-2006, 09:23 AM
Awesome! Great stuff Ben. You've got J springs in back, are those Slee 4" coils in front?

FJBen
10-03-2006, 10:57 AM
Awesome! Great stuff Ben. You've got J springs in back, are those Slee 4" coils in front?

Yup, Slee fronts, J rears. I can't wait til the Bilsteins come in, those pro-comp shocks are shot. I'm making mounts for the front this week and hope to sell my front "L" shocks soon so I can get the taller bilsteins on there as well.

I'd imagine you can do the same thing with a J' front, heavy rear and have comparable results with that shock extension in the rear. You would probably only be able to run 12" shocks in the rear, which is plenty of flex.

Beater
10-04-2006, 07:21 AM
nice work..

how about a pic of the actual piece instead of the drawing... I have some 9014s that I am looking to put on...

j

Nay
10-04-2006, 09:13 AM
Very nice - are you planning on 12" Bilsteins up front as well? Or 12" rear and 10" front? Any issues dropping the coils too far off the tower?

Nay

Beater
10-04-2006, 09:39 AM
hopefully he will retain them. That would be the best way to go.

j

FJBen
10-04-2006, 10:08 AM
Very nice - are you planning on 12" Bilsteins up front as well? Or 12" rear and 10" front? Any issues dropping the coils too far off the tower?

Nay

My 14" Bilsteins came in today for the rear :D and the front I'll be running 12" Steins, I don't see any issues with the front unseating, the rear will be a problem. So I will retain those so I get some negative pull from it.

I know the rear will still pull out as the extended length is 35" :eek: on those 14" shocks...Worst case I will probably loose 1/2"~3.4" on compression s these bilsteins have a longer collapsed length than the Pro-comps that were on there.

I don't have any pics of the pieces not installed...:rolleyes: But I may pull them out again to document it better. They basically look just like that 3d pic.

i'm wondering if I'm going to have any panhard issues with that much flex. I'm getting the parts to adjust them with this next week. I'll make a mount on the axle for the rear and the front I'm a bit baffelled.

Any reason to NOT thread that front solid rod??? and run a coupler setup? otherwise I'll just sleeve and then add inserts and go that route.

Beater
10-04-2006, 01:26 PM
why not just use the slee weld in's?

FJBen
10-04-2006, 02:11 PM
why not just use the slee weld in's?


That would be the easiest, trust me! And Slee's stuff is sweet. But thats also $210+ of which I don't have... I know, I know I just bought bilsteins, BUT...I sold stuff to buy those, no out of pocket money.

For the rear there are two options, both DIY,

1: like mabrodis did, cost ya around $25ish=$30ish...weld in inserts, all-tread...

2: change the mount on the axle or frame or both...this just is steel brackets of which I can get all the scrap steel pieces I want for free to fab that...that puts me $105 ahead ;)

For the front, maybe not so easy...

1: MAF has solid rod adjustables for $170ish, is the OEM steel that much different??? :confused: If there is no issues, then cut it, tap it and put a coupler on there. i'd imagine done for under $25.00 IF there isn't any issues.

2: Couldn't you just cut a chunk out of the panhard, Sleave it with dom, throw in the inserts/all-thread method and be out $30ish plus dom(unless again you can get it for free ;) )

So thats why for possibly under $50 I could have both ends done...if that makes sense...or makes me a BEYOND cheap bastard? :D

Beater
10-04-2006, 02:21 PM
if you're going the cb route (cheap bastard), do the math for the additional shortness/length (front over - rear under-sized) and sleeve it. It's not that critical.

j

FJBen
10-04-2006, 03:26 PM
seems like the cheapest bastard way! I have the correct DOM for the front sleaving, the rear I just need inserts...


....in continuing with the CB way...:p:

Here are the front mount/conversions...They have these adapters for sale from various places for about $35~$45 a pair...So for the front you'd be in close to $100. Being that I'm a CB, I decided to try my own for the front and upcoming bilsteins.

I used a scrap chunk of 2" X 3" X 1/4" square tubing, because thats what i had ;) Cut it down to the measurement in the picture. 2" X 1.5" X 2" Popped the hole in the bottom for mounting, and holes through the side to mount the shock in.

Now the problem I *may* have is the ID mimght be a bit to large for the shock bushing. Worst case, I'll have to shim with washers, kinda :hill: but for the moment. I'll get them installed tonight and see how they all fit. but for now, the pics...pic is crappy cameraphone...

Beater
10-04-2006, 08:32 PM
now that you put all that work into them, go to www.aa-mfg.com


:rolleyes:

FJBen
10-05-2006, 08:23 AM
now that you put all that work into them, go to www.aa-mfg.com


:rolleyes:

that would have been usefull information...


YESTERDAY! :rolleyes: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

yeah that is beyond cheap...5$, 5$ in shipping...lol It wasn't that there is hardly any work in the ones I built, but sheesh...Thats sweet. :beer: :beer: So I saved $10.00....:rolleyes:

Nay
10-08-2006, 09:38 AM
My 14" Bilsteins came in today for the rear :D and the front I'll be running 12" Steins, I don't see any issues with the front unseating, the rear will be a problem. So I will retain those so I get some negative pull from it.

I know the rear will still pull out as the extended length is 35" :eek: on those 14" shocks...Worst case I will probably loose 1/2"~3.4" on compression s these bilsteins have a longer collapsed length than the Pro-comps that were on there.

I don't have any pics of the pieces not installed...:rolleyes: But I may pull them out again to document it better. They basically look just like that 3d pic.

i'm wondering if I'm going to have any panhard issues with that much flex. I'm getting the parts to adjust them with this next week. I'll make a mount on the axle for the rear and the front I'm a bit baffelled.

Any reason to NOT thread that front solid rod??? and run a coupler setup? otherwise I'll just sleeve and then add inserts and go that route.

The droop issue will be interesting - retaining coils at the top may shorten their useful lift as standard coils are not designed to be stretched beyond static length. If it is only a small amount, then I'd retain on the axle end and let the coil come a bit down the tower.

I know this isn't super cheap, but now that you've endeavored to go long travel you should do the rear panhard with heims on both ends. On the front a cut and sleeve I'd think would be fine.

And it is time to sell those Slee arms for the cash you need to build the front :beer:

FJBen
10-09-2006, 08:40 AM
The droop issue will be interesting - retaining coils at the top may shorten their useful lift as standard coils are not designed to be stretched beyond static length. If it is only a small amount, then I'd retain on the axle end and let the coil come a bit down the tower.

I know this isn't super cheap, but now that you've endeavored to go long travel you should do the rear panhard with heims on both ends. On the front a cut and sleeve I'd think would be fine.

And it is time to sell those Slee arms for the cash you need to build the front :beer:


Yeah, I will only retain the bottom, I'll have to test flex again to make sure, but I don't think I'll be unseating that far now, should be around an 1.5" to 2"

i was thinking about that panhard as well, I'm getting the adjusters this week.

I was wondering about that front end :eek: Who wants to build a 3-link??? :p:

Beater
10-09-2006, 09:47 AM
man -

anything over 10" needs to be retained

(I know igge, "no ****" right?)

Anyway, you need to retain them front and rear. You will find that with the rear retained you will force the last bit of travel out of the radius arms, and the truck will be much more stable.

But don't listem to me, I haven't retained mine yet. However, I am still running those pukey ome's. If I ever re-do the shock mounts I will be welding in mounts for the spring retainers.

Ask bill morgan about the performance of my rover before and after spring retainment..

j

Uncle Ben
10-09-2006, 10:40 AM
man -

anything over 10" needs to be retained

(I know igge, "no ****" right?)



Tightie whities work for me! :D :lmao: :lmao: :bowdown: :beer:

FJBen
10-09-2006, 11:57 AM
man -

anything over 10" needs to be retained

(I know igge, "no ****" right?)

Anyway, you need to retain them front and rear. You will find that with the rear retained you will force the last bit of travel out of the radius arms, and the truck will be much more stable.

But don't listem to me, I haven't retained mine yet. However, I am still running those pukey ome's. If I ever re-do the shock mounts I will be welding in mounts for the spring retainers.

Ask bill morgan about the performance of my rover before and after spring retainment..

j

I couldn't get my rear springs to unseat before with the 11" travel shocks, and I used ALL of that travel. And I have no idea how anyone could unseat the fronts on a stock 80 series setup, I can only unseat them when I did the hitch pin and unattached a shock, even then it was about 1.5"

The rear now, I probably will do that, but without 3-linking or something custom, the front won't unseat.

Beater
10-09-2006, 01:01 PM
It's not about the unseating, it's about physics.

Right now, your rear will droop out first and quicker, due to the bind up front, and the link design versus the radius design.

By retaining the springs, you are forcing the energy to be stored, then tranfered along the pivot axis of the weight distribution. This will force your front to compress/droop more, resulting in less body roll and more even weight distrobution for a more stable result.

It's not about loosing them in the buckets... ask christo.. he knows all about this on the short bus.

FJBen
10-09-2006, 01:32 PM
I understand the physics behind it, and needing negative pull to keep the rig more stable, I just don't think I'll have to worry about it up front at all until I do something custom, it won't useat up front.

The rear yeah, I would like that extra pull to be there. It can still only force that front suspension so much without having to do something different up there.

I have no sway bars and I also pull that front pin occasionlly during wheeling so she actually is pretty dang balanced.

Guess bottom line I will retain the rear and be happy ! :D

FJBen
10-10-2006, 09:05 AM
UPDATE:

Be very careful when measuring lengths and such. I *might* have to move those top mounts inwards by re-drilling the top hole as the shock body can possibly come into contact on full stuff. I'm doing the panhards this week so that may fix the issue on the rear.

Beater
10-10-2006, 09:15 AM
be sure to check aa-mfg for adjustable mounts that might work for you.

FJBen
10-10-2006, 11:35 AM
be sure to check aa-mfg for adjustable mounts that might work for you.


lol, thanks for the heads up on that one! I doubt they'll have custom upper mounts that will work with the 80 series upper rear, but hey, you never know.

I just need to redrill that upper mount inwards more...one of those trial/error thingies...

FJBen
10-18-2006, 02:58 PM
Moved the mount inwards a little and all is good. Any shock bigger than the Bilstein 2" will probably hit the sides and need the hole enlarged.

Worked pretty good this weekend up at kelly flats, and I'm slightly unseating at full droop, so it will need to be retained.

1st Pic: posuer rock, TJ's lil' Sister standing in front, yes she's taller than 5' :)

2nd Pic: looking under the body...