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View Full Version : winch fairlead debate?


nakman
01-17-2007, 09:36 AM
I thought it interesting reading Bill Burke's column last night in the new Zartman mag (4WDTO) how he was ragging on everyone who has immediately switched to the hawse fairlead when switching to synthetic cable... almost in panic. He stated that the odds of pinching the synthetic line in a corner is very unlikely, and you're doing more damage to your synthetic line by allowing it to bend at the sharper angle induced by the hawse fairlead, so you're better off keeping the rollers if you want the synthetic line to last.

I must admit that makes some sense.. I'm still on cable but now I doubt I'll swap out the rollers right away when/if I switch to synthetic.


discuss... :popcorn: :blah:

Rezarf
01-17-2007, 10:03 AM
Not really related but Harbor Frieght has some nice rollers for 25 bucks! Thats a screaming deal.

The thought makes sense... and I bet Bill has used a winch once or twice before.

Drew

wesintl
01-17-2007, 10:11 AM
At the rate I use my winch, once or twice a year, i'll never need synthetic and at the rate I would potentually use my winch with synthetic and a hawse I'd never have an issue with it lasting.

For me this is mibs so I don't have an issue either way. :)

I guess i'm not wheeling hard enough :(

Uncle Ben
01-17-2007, 11:41 AM
I thought it interesting reading Bill Burke's column last night in the new Zartman mag (4WDTO) how he was ragging on everyone who has immediately switched to the hawse fairlead when switching to synthetic cable... almost in panic. He stated that the odds of pinching the synthetic line in a corner is very unlikely, and you're doing more damage to your synthetic line by allowing it to bend at the sharper angle induced by the hawse fairlead, so you're better off keeping the rollers if you want the synthetic line to last.

I must admit that makes some sense.. I'm still on cable but now I doubt I'll swap out the rollers right away when/if I switch to synthetic.


discuss... :popcorn: :blah:




Early on in this ongoing debate of rollers vrs. hawse a large school of thought against rollers was two fold. 1. the issue Nak mentions about the rope getting pulled into the roller end. 2. Switching to syn. rope and using used rollers which have wire rope scars already. The conscientious was that using a NEW polished aluminum fairlead was the most safe solution to both issues. Of course rollers will work better than a hawse as far as reducing friction and sharp angles ONLY if the rollers have no scars and actually roll so the rope won't slide into the corner.

I have to admit it has taken me a while to accept syn. rope. I did install it on my 80 as I set it up for a few reasons. The foremost reason was I doubted I would use it much and 6#'s for 125' of 5/16 rope vrs 70#'s for 95' of 3/8" rope made perfect sense to me. I planned ahead in my selections and chose a winch that had enough power that I wouldn't need to double line it and 5/16" syn. rope has well nearly twice my vehicles weight capacity in working strength. More rope, faster and ample single line pull, syn. rope almost 12 times lighter than wire rope, minimal kinetic energy loading means friends/family hopefully won't be beheaded if cable fails!
I still am totally amazed when using my 80's winch setup! It just doesn't seem possible that the weightless blue rope can handle the insane loads that it does. When TR and I did the Jenny Creek Tuesday run after the resto work was completed and we tested the winch anchor it was incredible to see all four tires of the heavy 80 sliding up the steep hill towards the anchor with only one thin blue line connecting it! Even more amazing was when I finished and played out the winch to unhook it immediately slacked indicating very little/if any kinetic energy loading! I still have my doubt's but it seems to just be in my head as the cable has more than adequately showed it's mettle without metal! :rolleyes: :eek: :cool: :thumb: :cheers:

leiniesred
01-17-2007, 12:50 PM
I switched to a hawse type fairlead with rope mainly because the hawse sticks out an inch and the warn rollers about 4 inches. I'll sell my barely used Warn roller fairlead for $20.

I switched to rope because my metal cable was frayed and painful at times.

Rope is nicer to work with, less weight on the front bumper, safer when it breaks, easier to field fix when it does, and really pulls in the chicks.

Uncle Ben
01-17-2007, 12:59 PM
Rope is nicer to work with, less weight on the front bumper, safer when it breaks, easier to field fix when it does, and really pulls in the chicks.


4 outta 5 perks isn't bad! :rolleyes: :lmao: :hill:

Beater
01-17-2007, 02:12 PM
I am happy with the "fairlead" I put in my bumper, it's really just a rectangular openning of 5/8th's 304 stainless pipe, I copied it off of a couple of comp buggies I saw. being stainless, it's surface hardness stands up to the steel cable quite well.

I am waiting for cash to go to rope for the reasons Kev stated.. Weight..

J Kimmel
01-17-2007, 03:00 PM
eh, How often do you really use the rollers? Really only in a side pull. Its not often you're pulling hard up or down, and I at least rarely have a hard side pull. I use an aluminum hawse with synthetic, and can't say I worry about it. I replace my synthetic every couple of years anyhow to be safe.

Bobzooki
01-17-2007, 03:02 PM
First, let me say that when you run a featherweight rig like the Gnewt, and only need a 6,000 pound winch, the switch to synthetic is amazing!

I went from 80 feet of 5/16 inch steel, to 175 feet of 1/4 inch synthetic. Holy cats man, I can winch myself into the next county!

Now, my roller fairlead, had some scarring on it, and that caused me a lot of concern. I took each roller out, and smoothed it down as best I could. I'm still not really comfortable with this setup, and I am seriously considering going with the Spidertrax aluminum hawse fairlead.

Convert
01-17-2007, 04:55 PM
I put the Delrin ( I think thats right) rollers on when I put rope on the 80. I have had both hawse and rollers and dont see much difference in them. If you clean up your metal rollers you probally wont have any problems.
Dan

wesintl
01-17-2007, 11:39 PM
minimal kinetic energy loading means friends/family hopefully won't be beheaded if cable fails!

Cable failure falls to the ground and is a non issue. I've had a winch cable fail with sever tension and it's a no biggie. That jacket won't do anything on the cable. If anything you want it as close to the mounting point as possible to help slow or cushion a flying failure at the mounting point. Even then I dunno if it will help.

The projectiles that kill are poor mounting points and their failure there.

Jenny Cruiser
01-18-2007, 07:31 AM
How often do you have to replace syn rope? I can't imagine it lasting long with prolonged exposure to the elements.

Beater
01-18-2007, 07:35 AM
Cable failure falls to the ground and is a non issue. I've had a winch cable fail with sever tension and it's a no biggie. That jacket won't do anything on the cable. If anything you want it as close to the mounting point as possible to help slow or cushion a flying failure at the mounting point. Even then I dunno if it will help.

The projectiles that kill are poor mounting points and their failure there.

good points wes, When I went to "recovery school" whatever that was.. They preached the recovery points, not the winch line. It has to do with where the break is in relation to the force point, and the mass at the focal point of the break.

anchor points, clevises and winch hooks are the danger points. I have seen several recoveries like the one in uncle ben's pic, and while I am sure it does something, the way we were taught was to use a blanket (you know, the old one you keep in the truck for emergency snuggling with your co-driver or dog when stranded) laid out full length over the line, so that when the line snaps, it will lower the fulcrum of the snap, in effect shortening the radius of the lever, resulting in less transfer of energy, and or less distance for the projectile.

Not a common failure, but statistically more apt to happen with frayed cable OR rope.

There are a lot of myths out there in regards to this subject, and I am far from a scholar on it, but the times I was schooled in it have stuck in my head.

Once, in air assault training, we were rigging a cucv blazer for deployment with a blackhawk. Cocky kid, (unbelievably not me) decided to not pay heed to the instructor, and almost lost his hand due to a bad lift point connection.

I definitely took the subject seriously since then, especially since I realized that we were lucky that it was just his hand, as had the bird fully lifted, it would have likely killed or injured one of us on the ground, but his screams had the instructor lower the bird.

stepping off soapbox now... :o

Bobzooki
01-18-2007, 07:50 AM
How often do you have to replace syn rope? I can't imagine it lasting long with prolonged exposure to the elements.

Replace it? Heck, I think it may outlast my rig!

From Rockstomper's Website (www.rockstomper.com):

How does synthetic rope hold up to UV exposure?
Amsteel Blue has a proprietary urethane-based coating, factory-applied, to help it resist UV radiation. Additionally, Amsteel Blue was not actually designed for the 4WD industry; it was developed for offshore commercial fishing purposes, where it would be exposed to nearly-constant sunlight. Because of these design criteria, it resists UV exposure very well.

ginericLC
01-18-2007, 12:04 PM
I think his primary reason for suggesting not running the hawse fairlead was due to the heat that is generated by the friction. Heat kills synthetic winch rope. He also chatted about how spooling it out with the motor would wear the brake in the winch quickly and the heat generated would harm the synthetic winch rope. It was an interesting article. I already bought a hawse aluminum fairlead in anticipation in switching to the synthetic winch line. Maybe I'll just use my rollers? I haven't decided yet. I do have a friend who uses the synthetic on his Jeep with rollers and he has never had an issue.