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corsair23
01-26-2007, 05:01 PM
Sent the guy that had the lower control arms for sale an email and he sent me a picture...

Any thoughts re: the overall shape of these? Obviously dirty but to my inexperienced eye they look fine. Thinking of using these on the LX for the OME lift, when that happens.

Any input is greatly appreciated :thumb:

Shark Bait
01-26-2007, 05:25 PM
Hey Jeff,

If you're not in a hurry you can have mine. I don't know when I will get a chance to do mine, though.

If it helps, Christo usually has a set "on-hand" with new bushings in them, ready to go. So if you show up with your old ones you can probably walk right out with new ones.

corsair23
01-26-2007, 05:52 PM
Chris,

Thanks for the offer and info...I, like you, don't know when I'll be ready to do the lift which I don't even have yet...I'll give Slee a call and talk over the specifics and see what they have. I hope to get the lift on before Moab which made picking this up attractive but I don't really need any more parts lying around that I'll never use :)

Beater
01-26-2007, 06:24 PM
Chris,

Thanks for the offer and info...I, like you, don't know when I'll be ready to do the lift which I don't even have yet...I'll give Slee a call and talk over the specifics and see what they have. I hope to get the lift on before Moab which made picking this up attractive but I don't really need any more parts lying around that I'll never use :)

I have an extra set as well.. However I need bushings for the set I have. It's REALLY hard to bend these arms. Cast Steel, and thick. I wouldn't hesitate to pick up almost any used..

If you want, and you time it right, we could use mine as a jig to make you some caster correcting ones if you go 5" or higher on the lift.

why do you need control arms on a ome lift?

Shark Bait
01-26-2007, 06:42 PM
Caster correction?

Romer
01-26-2007, 07:26 PM
Why do you need those. Just put the castor correction bushings in the ones you have. This isn't something you would need as a spare.

corsair23
01-26-2007, 09:29 PM
Why do you need those. Just put the castor correction bushings in the ones you have. This isn't something you would need as a spare.

Understood but it was mentioned that a person could buy these and get them over to Slee to have the bushings installed for the OME lift. Then a DIY home lift installation would be without the downtime of getting existing ones off and running them up to Slee. Another person mentioned that then the ones pulled off the rig getting the lift could be passed to the next person who does a lift again without some downtime and so on...

Sort of a one time purchase and then just pass them along to the next person who can use them thing.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the whole OME lift and need for caster correction bushings :dunno:

I'm definitely not opposed to being talked out of spending $50 needlessly :thumb:

Romer
01-26-2007, 10:06 PM
If $50 is worth it while you drive to slee, have them pressed and return home, go for it.

Beater
01-26-2007, 11:24 PM
I don't know that I would bother with the caster correction on a 2 inch lift... plus, the correction bushings delaminate faster, and allow less articulation.

corsair23
01-28-2007, 11:07 PM
Found out some more information that these are off a '95 FZJ80. Am I correct in my understanding that these will fit a '97 LX450 with no problem (among other year FZJ80s and LX450s)?

Any other input regarding the need to go with or not go with the caster correction bushings? I just assumed it was a given because they are part of the basic lift kit (at least from Slee) and most if not all of the information I have read re: the OME lift talks about installing the caster correction bushings or at least the need to.

Thanks!

Shark Bait
01-28-2007, 11:26 PM
Yeah, I don't know enough about it. I just assumed, like you Jeff, that it's necessary. I guess some people don't spring for the caster correction. Don't know for sure if they suffer or not.

Beater
01-29-2007, 07:58 AM
NOT an expert by any means. To me though, the issue is not the 1~1.5 degrees that you loose, it is the suspension harshness, articulation change, and short life you gain.

Personally, I would drive without changing them out, (worst suspension job on a 80 imho) see if you notice a difference at high speed, 50~70 mph, and make your decision from there.

nakman
01-29-2007, 09:32 AM
I would suggest borrowing Chris', or John's (if he's offereing :)) and save the $50. It's a convenience, and you can't count on the fact that Slee's shop will be able to drop everything and press your bushings while you wait. If they have a set already ready to go, then it's just a quick in & out and you're done.

But what front springs are you putting on? 851? 850? 850J? And how much extra weight will you have up front? (bumper, winch, dual batts?) You will notice the castor difference, but it will vary based on lift & weight up front. You can go without it, it's better to do it.. post up more info and I'll give you a give you another opinion.

With 850 springs and no extra weight my truck wandered in those grooves on the highway pretty bad. Yeah you get used to it, but it's still not right and not as safe. Gettting the bushings installed made a very noticeable improvement. Then I added more weight (all of the above) and then added spacers first, then swapped it all out for J springs. Things still seem to be about right- no wandering, no vibrations, stable tracking on HWY36 at 70mph running in the grooves as I have to reach back to hand the kid his sippy for the 13th time...

Three Wheel Ben
01-29-2007, 09:37 AM
Jeff,

1st the arms will fit if you want them.

2nd when you lift the truck your going to lose about 2 degrees of caster, originally 3 now around 1. The truck is going to wander more than before. While not necessary they help the truck maintain the stock steering habits.
It will not hurt anything to not do them when you do the lift. In fact it will make installing the lift easier. Just so you know the difference I would install the lift and drive it for a week or two, if you don't like the way it drives/wanders install the correction kit. If it is your wifes dd she will tell you how much she doesn't like it "since you put the lift on":D . But try it that way you'll know.

And caster is not a tire wearing angle - only has to do with steering wheel returnability.

And if you decide to do it bring the arms by and I'll be glad to press them in (for a small fee). :thumb:

sleeoffroad
01-29-2007, 09:48 AM
Why compromise the handling when you do not have to. The delamination of the bushings vs Toyota rubber bushings is not a common occurance. As for the loss in articulation, I would rather have a truck that drives good on the road and loose a little articulation, if any.

corsair23
01-29-2007, 12:49 PM
All, this is GREAT information and very helpful to this 80 noob :thumb:

It's a convenience, and you can't count on the fact that Slee's shop will be able to drop everything and press your bushings while you wait. If they have a set already ready to go, then it's just a quick in & out and you're done.

This is exactly my thought. $50 isn't chump change but the convenience of getting the bushings pressed in prior to the lift install rather than possibly having considerable downtime is where my thought process is. My wrenching is limited to weekends pretty much and I can't afford to have a DD down and out for any length of time. Even if I did not do the bushings at first and then chose to do them later I would be in the same situation. Once I am done with the arms I can pass them on to the next person that would like to do the same...Sort of club 'spares' if you will. Sounds like Chris will have a set as well so at any given time there should always be a set available for use :cool:


But what front springs are you putting on? 851? 850? 850J? And how much extra weight will you have up front? (bumper, winch, dual batts?) You will notice the castor difference, but it will vary based on lift & weight up front. You can go without it, it's better to do it.. post up more info and I'll give you a give you another opinion.

Tim, my plan for the LX is to ultimately have: OME lift; sliders (first); an ARB winch bumper up front with either a 9K or 12K Warn winch and rear Slee tire carrier. Other possibles are dual batteries, lights, air system, and other misc stuff. In my research it seems like the OME heavy would be the appropriate lift given the 'accessories' chosen but I need to talk to Christo on that. My dilema is financial wise doing everything at the same time may not be a possibility but I'd like to avoid the cost that goes along with progressively upgrading the springs...

In regards to wheeling, I doubt my use will ever be considered 'hard core'. I saw it mentioned that articulation may be affected by the caster correction bushings but for my planned use that may not be a concern.

A bigger consideration for me will be that I do plan to tow with the LX. I plan to tow a small utility trailer occassionally, a pop-up Coleman camper, and possibly the sister-in-laws Jetski. IMO having the LX track good and be stable while towing is more important than any possible loss of articulation.

Of course, the 'need' for these control arms is all because I would like to actually start wrenching on the LX myself to get to know it, assuming I can install the lift myself. I should check with Slee and see what they charge to install an OME lift...Maybe in the end it isn't worth the effort?

As always thanks to everyone for the great input and enlightening discussion :thumb:

Uncle Ben
01-29-2007, 01:16 PM
The articulation loss you might get is minute! You will still have more travel and smoother ride than you expect right now! As for "Hard Core" trails.....not really an issue in an 80....the only trail clasifications you will know are 1- sheet metal damage likely or 2- what trail? :hill: Welcome to the Mall Cruiser fold! :robbie: :kevin: :tongue2: :thumb:

nakman
01-29-2007, 02:05 PM
Ok so by "heavy" is that 850 or 850J? It's almost not worth worrying about.. staying that low means you can run the OME "non-L" shocks and since you'll keep your tires at 33" or smaller you don't need to lower bump stops. Resale on springs is very good, typical used cost is $75-$100 for the set. So if you went with 850's now then wanted to upgrade to J's later when you get a bumper & winch it would only set you back a net of another $100 later.. again you're keeping the same shocks, selling the 850's & buying the 850J's.

Installing yourself is defintely doable, and worth doing yourself if you want to get to know how stuff works down there. The first time I did it it took me all weekend. The second time just a Saturday, I'm down to about 2 hrs. per side now...

corsair23
01-29-2007, 02:34 PM
Ok so by "heavy" is that 850 or 850J? It's almost not worth worrying about.. staying that low means you can run the OME "non-L" shocks and since you'll keep your tires at 33" or smaller you don't need to lower bump stops. Resale on springs is very good, typical used cost is $75-$100 for the set. So if you went with 850's now then wanted to upgrade to J's later when you get a bumper & winch it would only set you back a net of another $100 later.. again you're keeping the same shocks, selling the 850's & buying the 850J's.

Installing yourself is defintely doable, and worth doing yourself if you want to get to know how stuff works down there. The first time I did it it took me all weekend. The second time just a Saturday, I'm down to about 2 hrs. per side now...

Hmmm...I guess I thought the 850s (non J) were what I needed if I had a bumper/winch and rear tire carrier. I have heard about the 'Js' but I thought those were for an even bigger lift? I'm really trying to avoid the spring shuffle if I can avoid it but maybe it is just a natural progression the we all must go through :hill:. I did read that you don't want to go with heavys in the rear if you don't have the weight as the ride and driveability is less than desireable.

So many decisions, so many mods, so little time, and so little money :(


This might get me the "stupid question of the year award" but if I were to pick up that spare set of control arms would there be any reason or value (other than experience in getting to remove and install the arms twice :eek: ) in swapping out the ones on the LX and having the new bushings pressed into the ones on my LX today as opposed to using the spares? Maybe I just sealed myself in the "nut job" category by asking the question :D

nakman
01-29-2007, 03:21 PM
850's are ~2.5" lift. 850J's are ~3.5" lift. height of truck with bumper, winch, & dual batteries on 850J's = height of truck with stock bumper on 850's. 850's + $10 1" Mr. Gasket spacers = 850J height, but not quite as good ride & performance quality (cheesier setup!)

...if I were to pick up that spare set of control arms would there be any reason or value (other than experience in getting to remove and install the arms twice ) in swapping out the ones on the LX and having the new bushings pressed into the ones on my LX today as opposed to using the spares?

edit: Ok I read your question 5 more times and now I get it. No, no value at all, waste of time, don't do it. control arms are control arms, just swap them once. (IMO, of course :rolleyes:)

My other response: If you skip the extra set you save the $50. If you can live with the vehicle downtime, and have another way to get to Slee's, then you're better off pulling your LX control arms, bringing them to Golden, then bringing them back to your house to reinstall with the bushings. It's up to Christo's shop load how long it takes them to do the work..

Advantage of the "extra set" is you just bring those in to Slee's as a "core charge," then go home with a different set that already has the busings in. That all presumes that they've got a set there with bushings installed ready to go, which is worth a phone call. 303-278-8287

corsair23
01-29-2007, 03:56 PM
850's are ~2.5" lift. 850J's are ~3.5" lift. height of truck with bumper, winch, & dual batteries on 850J's = height of truck with stock bumper on 850's. 850's + $10 1" Mr. Gasket spacers = 850J height, but not quite as good ride & performance quality (cheesier setup!)



edit: Ok I read your question 5 more times and now I get it. No, no value at all, waste of time, don't do it. control arms are control arms, just swap them once. (IMO, of course :rolleyes:)

My other response: If you skip the extra set you save the $50. If you can live with the vehicle downtime, and have another way to get to Slee's, then you're better off pulling your LX control arms, bringing them to Golden, then bringing them back to your house to reinstall with the bushings. It's up to Christo's shop load how long it takes them to do the work..

Advantage of the "extra set" is you just bring those in to Slee's as a "core charge," then go home with a different set that already has the busings in. That all presumes that they've got a set there with bushings installed ready to go, which is worth a phone call. 303-278-8287


Thanks Tim! Very valuable input and I appreciate the insight :)

Romer
01-29-2007, 04:03 PM
Advantage of the "extra set" is you just bring those in to Slee's as a "core charge," then go home with a different set that already has the busings in. That all presumes that they've got a set there with bushings installed ready to go, which is worth a phone call. 303-278-8287


He could do this with his own set if he took them off and drove them up there, couldn't he?


Spring Shuffle

I started with the Medium lift ARB and Sliders
I got a winch and added the 1" spacers up front

I added rear bumper and went to 863's in the rear

Added supercharger and took out spacers and swapped front for J's

Added rear drawers and truck sat level unloaded and ass down when loaded or towing.

Now have J's front and rear and my lift is perfect. I have no desire to go larger.

Not counting the extra inch when I switched to 315's

I had a 2.5" lift with the mediums and ARB and sliders.

I now have a 3" lift with all my toys and J's.

I still am running the same castor correction and have no drivability issues.

I did swap to L shocks, but that was to go along with the tires more so than the springs.

Now lets say I knew how I might have needed up and started with L's. I would have started with a near 4" lift and would have had to do more castor correction and likely had pinion angle problems. Both expensive items to correct for. Both issues I do not have as I changed the springs as I built the truck.

Hope that helps

corsair23
01-29-2007, 05:22 PM
Thanks Ken...VERY helpful to see the progression and stages! Really points out the reality of how you have to progress along unless you have the resources to do everything at one time.

I will probably stop at the rear bumper 'step' above, at least for now. I wonder how many pints of blood one one would have to sell in order to get enough $$ for a rear tire carrier? :hill:

My sole reason for picking up the spare control arms is the convenience factor - I could get the bushings pressed in ahead of time and have them ready for when I install the lift. Whether that convenience is worth $50, I'm just not sure :rolleyes: - if this were something I could do easily at home it wouldn't even need to be discussed.

I know it is going to take a noob like me a full weekend to do the lift install without taking time out to get the bushings pressed in...

I'm not assuming wrong here am I that installing the bushings is really not a DIY job at home even with the slee bushing press tool am I?

Shark Bait
01-29-2007, 07:38 PM
I know it is going to take a noob like me a full weekend to do the lift install without taking time out to get the bushings pressed in...

We should have an install party. Bribe someone with some :beer: .

:lmao:

Nay
01-31-2007, 03:22 PM
How many miles on your rig (and therefore the factory bushings)? I may end up doing the "washer mod" and DC shaft since my caster is low even with the bushings, and I am not changing my lift height so a permanant fix is in order. I have pretty low mileage OME bushings in my arms and might be up for a swap when the time comes around.

Nay

corsair23
01-31-2007, 03:50 PM
Nay,

Not sure if the question is for Chris or me but my LX has ~96K on it right now.

Nay
01-31-2007, 05:53 PM
Nay,

Not sure if the question is for Chris or me but my LX has ~96K on it right now.

Q was for you if you might be interested in a straight trade of your arms for mine with bushings already installed on the date of your lift party. I'm not quite sure if I am doing this yet, but might be quite interested. My OME bushings have 3 good trail runs and about 15K miles, so they are in good shape AFAIK.

Nay

corsair23
01-31-2007, 06:15 PM
Nay,

I'll certainly keep it in mind! Would make life easier. Are you interested in my old bushings if the swap doesn't occur? Assuming of course they come out cleanly. If so they are all yours as I won't have much use for them...

Nay
01-31-2007, 06:26 PM
Nay,

I'll certainly keep it in mind! Would make life easier. Are you interested in my old bushings if the swap doesn't occur? Assuming of course they come out cleanly. If so they are all yours as I won't have much use for them...

I'll get new bushings if I don't do a straight swap, and sell the OME CC bushings, but thanks for the offer. I"m not doing any of this any time soon, so if you remember and it sounds good just ping me and I'll let you know.

Beater
01-31-2007, 07:02 PM
damn.. I just ordered new bushings... shoot

nakman
01-31-2007, 07:16 PM
John, you running stock bushings? Or OME? I thought stock since you did the cut & weld thing..

Beater
01-31-2007, 09:00 PM
I thought he was talking about stock "extras"... yeah, mine are stock, and toast.. and I have to press in not swap arms since mine are one off.

corsair23
01-31-2007, 11:08 PM
I thought he was talking about stock "extras"... yeah, mine are stock, and toast.. and I have to press in not swap arms since mine are one off.

I think I was, am :(. Until Nay's post I just assumed that one would toss the stock bushings when they put in the OME CC ones...I obviously still have a lot to learn :hill:. I guess once I do the swap, and assuming the stock bushings come out unscathed, I'll post up that if someone wants 'em they can have them.

Hulk
01-31-2007, 11:54 PM
My bushings were completely mangled by the time we got them out. We used fire, too. Of course, my 80 had lived most of its life in wet, cold Wisconsin, and had the corrosion to show for it.

My lesson was: always listen to Christo. He warned me about a truck from the midwest, and I bought one anyway. It's been a good truck, but bolts are harder to turn than they should be.