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corsair23
04-09-2007, 01:41 PM
Long ago, I remember reading a post about NOT using the side posts on an Optima battery to connect a winch to (or anything else with a heavy draw). Here is pretty much what I read (from this site (http://flashoffroad.com/electrical/Batteries/batteries.htm)) plus an interesting comment on Red Tops and deep cycle use:

Optima Batteries

Optima's engineers were recommending to AM General's engineers the use of Optima "Red Tops" for the HUMMER (H1). The 34/78 and 75/25 both have dual setups with posts on the top and GM Side terminals. You need side posts for your H1.

Just to put some numbers to this. In the 34/78 popular size Optima the Red Top is 800 CCA and the Yellow Top is 750 CCA. Both do fine as a starter battery. Especially so in the Hummer since there are 2 of them in parallel 1600 CCA vs. 1500 CCA total. The difference should not ever be a problem except in those marginal starting situations that can come up. The Red Tops will die much sooner according to Optima if deep cycled which is the case with some vehicles running inverters, etc and not having the motor running all the time. This has been found to be true in actual experience. Only a few deep cycles can kill the Red Top. Just like any other battery. They can not take the deep cycling, and still start the truck like the Yellow Top. The Yellow Tops are designed to perform in Deep Cycle service up to 300 times as well as serve as a starter. I have found the Yellow Tops to last about twice as long in my truck as the Red Tops which I tried. If you have a box stock Hummer that will not have any significant loads for extended periods with the engine not running (the case AMG Engineers are considering) then the Red Tops will be fine. Your mileage of course may vary.

Do not use the Optima side terminals if you intend to attach an electric winch to it. I spoke with an Interstate engineer and he stated they will not warranty a DT battery for winch use. It appears that the top post is the main connector to the cells and the Optima uses a relatively thin connector strip from the top post to the side terminal connection. This strip will melt kind of like a fuse or fusible link under winching loads.

Well, I didn't go with an Optima for the LX but an Exide Orbital OR78DT (http://www.exide.com/pdf/orbital_gold_specs_and_features.pdf) that has both the top and side terminals. For the time being I'm only going to be running a single battery setup (maybe forever) so bolt space will become an issue as more accessories are added. I called Orbital tech support and asked them about connecting a winch to the side posts. Per the tech support guy at Orbital he said it should not be a problem and shouldn't damage the battery in any way.

I'm not sure if not using the side terminals still applies to Optimas or not but thought I would throw this up in case anyone else is wondering.

If your experience is different from what I am hearing please let me know!

nakman
04-09-2007, 07:37 PM
I can't come up with a good reason not to run the winch up there, but for some reason still shy away from it. I guess if you fried your battery just save those plastic plugs and deny ever using those front connectors?

But the better solution for all aftermarket wiring is to upgrade to the "Mil Spec" connectors.. so the bolt that clamps the thing down to the battery does nothing but clamp, leaving another bolt to do nothing but attached external cables. Here are some for pretty cheap..http://www.kilbyenterprises.com/switches.htm

ScaldedDog
04-09-2007, 08:08 PM
I bought some of these (http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=LYN&MfrPartNumber=1501142&CategoryCode=3019) to use with my new Exide Marine (http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=LYN&MfrPartNumber=1501142&CategoryCode=3019) battery. Since the marine battery has a second top post, that gives me three top posts to hook accessories to, which is plenty. I've used the side posts on Red Tops (though not for a winch), and they are worthless for my application.

Speaking of that, Red Tops, in general, are worthless for my application. My 4Runner sits about 350 days per year, and that's killed three Red Tops. I'm hoping for a better experience with the new Exide.

Mark

Rezarf
04-09-2007, 09:58 PM
I have had the same red top on my DD 40 for nearly 3 years now. Runs great. Just .02

Drew

sleeoffroad
04-10-2007, 06:46 AM
But the better solution for all aftermarket wiring is to upgrade to the "Mil Spec" connectors.. so the bolt that clamps the thing down to the battery does nothing but clamp, leaving another bolt to do nothing but attached external cables. Here are some for pretty cheap..http://www.kilbyenterprises.com/switches.htm

Those are the answer and that price is only 0.95c more than what we sell them for :D

RockRunner
04-10-2007, 07:44 AM
Just to throw another wrenchin the equation, why not use the posts to power the winch and the side post to start the vehicle? I used a Sears marine battery that way for years with no ill effects. The vehicle was run of the side posts and all my accesories including 1500 watts of stereo ran of the top posts.

I also looked at the Excide batteries, they have some very good comments. THe other battery I have been looking at is the Odessy, very similar the the Panther battery of years back. It is a gel style battery that has a much smaller foot print for the same CCA as a Optima or ??? Does anyone have any expierence with them? I am hard pressed to find reviews on them, looked last night actually.

Well that is my two cents worth, take it for what it is worth.

Uncle Ben
04-10-2007, 10:14 AM
In Long Grain (my v8 powered FJ-62) I had a single Red Top Optima in it. I did have the winch cables mounted to the side lugs and the vehicle wiring was off the top terminals. I never had a problem with that set up and in fact that vehicle is still running the same setup with that original battery. I learned later that using the side terminals for winching was a bad idea. On my 80 I use the side terminals on the Yellow Tops for charging/combining and the top terminals handle the load chores. I know Optimas get slammed a lot but I have been using them since back when they were made by Gates and have only had two die on me. The one (a Yellow Top) literally died suddenly and the early Red Top still would start a vehicle but would not hold a load very long. Both cases I later found were charging related and both cases the alternator overcharged. The side terminal weakness seems both real and logical.

Red_Chili
04-10-2007, 10:24 AM
Just to throw another wrenchin the equation, why not use the posts to power the winch and the side post to start the vehicle? I used a Sears marine battery that way for years with no ill effects. The vehicle was run of the side posts and all my accesories including 1500 watts of stereo ran of the top posts.
Bingo.

The Chili does not use the sideposts on either battery anymore, though. I do need to install an insulated connection post to clean things up at the motor end of the cables that run to the batts in the rear though.

Hey Mark, just so's you know, sitting 350 days a year will kill ANY battery! Batteries Plus sells decent battery trickle chargers that will keep your $$$ battery happy, and not set you back much at all. You can wire them up with pigtails that stay on your vehicle, then when sitting in the garage you simply plug it in.

Works for the bikes too.

leiniesred
04-10-2007, 11:02 AM
I winched from the sideposts with a warn MX8000 (pretty little) with my exide bat-rey. No problem.

However, I've seen bat-rey's with melted side-post leads. Not cool. Just try not to dead short your winch wires.

Here is what happens: You cleverly route your winch cables so they look great. But then, you bash a ledge and your bumper gets jammed against the body or something and pinches the winch power cables so badly that they short out on the chassis. Then the truck catches on fire before you can get the cables off the bat-rey. Not cool.

Red_Chili
04-10-2007, 11:06 AM
I guess that means you use the side posts as a fuse!
It's a safety feature, aha!!!:lmao:

corsair23
04-10-2007, 11:50 AM
Just to throw another wrenchin the equation, why not use the posts to power the winch and the side post to start the vehicle? I used a Sears marine battery that way for years with no ill effects. The vehicle was run of the side posts and all my accesories including 1500 watts of stereo ran of the top posts.

I don't think using the side posts would be an option for the 80 series without doing some cable replacement...The cables barely stretch to reach center mounted posts...Maybe rotating the battery would work but that would put the cables right up against the battery box, albeit a plastic box, and I don't think you could get the cabling to make that severe of a bend coming in.

I bought some of these (http://www.partsamerica.com/productdetail.aspx?MfrCode=LYN&MfrPartNumber=LCS8622&CategoryCode=3019) to try for the side posts on the LX. Marine types terminals that I use on the FJ40. I like the wingnut for quick removal purposes without having to remove the entire terminal from the post. Might consider using these on the top posts as well to give me a little more length on my stretched cables :).

For true BLING check these out! JL Audio Battery Terminals (https://www.expeditionexchange.com/jlaudio/) or Main Website (http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_connections_detail.php?cat_id=3)

JL Audio has an authorized store down here in Littleton.


Anyone looking for an Exide Orbital OR78DT battery might want to give ebay a shot...The best price I could find was here: Bargain Brothers (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4632602585&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.search.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D4632602585%26fvi%3D1)

Currently price is $124 + shipping (~$26). About $150 total for me 'cuz no tax. Walmarts price last week when I was in there was $159.99 IIRC + tax. Checker wanted $169.99 + tax.

If I manage to fry my battery I'll let everyone know :hill:. Not sure now whether the existing cables I have will reach :mad:.

Anyone have a recommendation on where to buy heavy guage wire in bulk length for winches and remote fuse boxes?

nakman
04-10-2007, 01:34 PM
Anyone have a recommendation on where to buy heavy guage wire in bulk length for winches and remote fuse boxes?

I got mine from a welding supply shop, can't remember the name but it was down in the vicitiny of General Air by the staduim, or closer to Stadium Auto parts actually but on the west side of the highway. Careful though.. that's a slippery slope you're on as you're flirting with dual battery stuff now. Only other things you need is the tray, the washer relocator kit, and an isolator/combiner right? :)

Red_Chili
04-10-2007, 01:58 PM
Or a solenoid. Many of the isolater/combiner units out there look good from the outside, and look 1960 on the inside. Waste of money - and the heatsink indicates a waste of energy as well! 200A weatherproof solenoids can be gotten for $35 or so. Use ignition +12 through a switch to power them, or even a DT switch to pick ignition +12, hot all the time +12, or off, depending on what you want. Flexible.

I get welding cable from Dave Rios at General Air on S. Santa Fe, tell him Bill Morgan of the Sou'Siders sent you and get a stealin' deal.

corsair23
04-10-2007, 01:58 PM
I got mine from a welding supply shop, can't remember the name but it was down in the vicitiny of General Air by the staduim, or closer to Stadium Auto parts actually but on the west side of the highway. Careful though.. that's a slippery slope you're on as you're flirting with dual battery stuff now. Only other things you need is the tray, the washer relocator kit, and an isolator/combiner right? :)

True...so true

If time weren't an issue, and given what I know now about how I'm going to have to route my winch cables, I would go dual battery and be done with it. Suspension wise I have what I need up front to do so :thumb:

May still do so and just leave the dang winch powerless until then :(.

So much to do...so little time. I finally had to make a list of "Must Do's" and "Want To Do's" before Moab :eek:

Red_Chili
04-10-2007, 02:07 PM
Two weeks plus three days.... gotta get working'...