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kvanoort
05-14-2007, 03:23 PM
I'm ready to check the crankshaft and connecting rod journals for their respective run clearances on the supposedly running '75 2F transplant motor that's going in my 1972 FJ40 project. I've done numerous searches and feel I'm ready to check the thrust clearances and remove the bearing caps to determine if the engine will need a complete rebuild, a refresh or just a cleanup. From searching, here's the information I have compiled and that I could use some verification of before I continue with this part of the project. If someone with a 2F FSM wouldn't mind checking the numbers, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

1) Using a feeler gauge, measure the thrust (side) clearance of both the connecting rods and the crankshaft.
Connecting Rods

Connecting rod thrust clearance (standard) 0.004/0.009 in (0.11/0.23 mm)
Connecting rod thrust clearance (maximum) 0.012 in (0.3 mm)
Crankshaft
Check the crankshaft thrust clearance at the third bearing.
Crankshaft thrust clearance (standard) 0.0024/0.0065 in (0.06/0.16mm)
Crankshaft thrust clearance (maximum) 0.012 in (0.3 mm)
Source: Haynes ARM

2) Mark the connecting rods and bearing caps to ensure they are reinstalled correctly. Rotate crank to access connecting rod bearing cap nuts. Remove nuts and take off bearing cap one at a time. Inspect and measure journals and run clearances.
Connecting Rods
Rod journal dia. 2.1252/2.1260 in

Using Plastigauge, measure condition of bearings.
Install the connecting rod cap and tighten the rod nuts to 35~55 ft-lb (4.8 - 7.6 m-kg) torque.
Rod run clearance 0.0008/0.0017 in
Source: Motor Power, Inc. - www.motorpowerinc.com/specs/2f.html
Rod bearing oil clearance (standard) 0.0008/0.0024 in (0.02/0.06 mm)
Rod bearing oil clearance (maximum) 0.004 in (0.10 mm)
Source: Haynes ARM

3) Crankshaft
Crankshaft journal diameter - standard:
Front: 2.6366 ~ 2.6378 in (66.97 ~ 67.00 mm)
Second: 2.6957 ~ 2.6969 in (68.47 ~ 68.50 mm)
Third: 2.7547 ~ 2.7559 in (69.97 ~ 70.00 mm)
Rear: 2.8138 ~ 2.8150 in (71.47 ~ 71.50 mm)
Source: Toyota F Engine Repair Manual

Using Plastigauge, install the bearing cap bolts:
Torque - Front, second & third: 90 ~ 108 ft-lb (12.5~15 m-kg)
Torque - Rear: 76 ~ 94 ft-lb (10.5 ~ 13 m-kg)
Oil clearance should be 0.0014/0.0018 in (0.035/0.045 mm)
Limit is 0.004 in (0.10 mm)
Source: Toyota F Engine Repair Manual - Will also check Haynes tomorrow

To be continued...

Rzeppa
05-18-2007, 03:39 PM
Hi kvanoort,

What's you're name?

Anyhow, F and 2F internal clearances (and torque specs) are the same except for the bore of the pistons, so the F manual will tell you all you need to know about crank, rods, cam, etc. Note that F engines use shims on the main caps and 2Fs don't. You want about a thou or so more clearance on #4 due to it's larger size (area) than the other 3. The manual won't tell you that. #3 main bearing is called the "thrust" bearing because that's where thrust is controlled by the shoulder of the bearing on the crank, and it's where you measure thrust.

It's nearly impossible to properly measure IDs and not worth the bother. ODs are a little easier, but a caliper is generally +/-.0010", while a good mic will get you 2-4x that accuracy. Mics that go big enough to measure crank journals are WAY expensive, so plastigauge is our friend!

Use the plastigauge to measure the oil clearances to determine where you're starting from. If you are in, or close to oil clearance spec, just get new stock size bearings, recheck plastigauge readings and be happy. If oil clearances are more than a couple thou out, go ahead and grind the crank .020 (.5mm) and get new bearings one size over.

Since you're into it this far, at the minimum you want new bearings anyway. It's all labor, bearings are inexpensive.

kvanoort
05-21-2007, 10:12 AM
Jeff, Thanks for your reply and direction. I've never gone this far into an engine before so your help is greatly appreciated.

This weekend, I started checking the connecting rod bearings using plastigage and the first two were within spec but I noticed a hair-line fracture on the #1 cylinder rod bearing. So, as you suggested, I guess I'll just go ahead and replace all the rod bearings with new standard size bearings. This week, I'll get a look at the crank bearings as well. Do you have any suggestions for the best place to purchase bearings? Should I go with OEM? While I'm at it, I'll also order new front and rear seals.

As a side note, when I took off the oil pan and cleaned it out, I noticed that the previous owner must have repaired the pan and welded some metal on the bottom and sealed it with gasket glue. Luckly, I have a good F oil pan that I modified the oil baffle on and will have media blasted soon.

Thanks again for all your help. I'm hoping to make it to a club meeting in July if not sooner.

Rzeppa
05-21-2007, 05:46 PM
Hi Kent,

IIRC, bearings are still available from the dealer. When I did my F engine this past summer, I bought from Spector (http://sor.com), they were reasonably priced, prompt and the parts were correct. You will want an overhaul gasket kit, which will include new front and rear crank seals. It's generally cheaper to buy the kit than buying each seal and gasket one by one.

If you're planning to do the head, I'll be happy to loan you the valve spring compressor I bought; it was around $50 but I figure I'll be using it again one of these days.

I'm assuming you've got the pistons out by now, right? If so, what did they look like?

kvanoort
05-22-2007, 09:09 PM
No progress on the 2F since Sunday -- lots of yard work last night and hanging out with my girls tonight. I wasn't planning on pulling the pistons but since I'm this far into the engine, I may just have to keep going and get some new rings as well. Live and learn, like it or not.

Rzeppa
05-23-2007, 05:27 PM
Hi Kent,

I know well how life eats into quality wrench time :-)

At a minimum you will want to pull the pistons for inspection, replace the rings and hone the cylinders. As you wrote, you're this far into it!

kvanoort
06-17-2007, 08:50 PM
Well, I have now completely disassembled my '75 2F motor. This project started out by purchasing a supposedly running 2F that I was just going to clean up a bit and drop into my '72 FJ40 project. But, after reading Jeff Zepp's advice to dig deeper into the engine and replace wear items, I now have internal engine parts neatly organized all over my workbench.

I haven't spent any time measuring parts to determine wear on all the various bits and pieces but from a quick visual inspection it looks like the crank is in good shape and the cylinder bores are okay but the cam is worn. At this point, I'm going to have the cylinder head cleaned up and checked out along with the crank and block. I'm also going to have a machine shop install new cam bearings and freeze plugs.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a shop in the Denver area to do the work? I'm looking for someone who knows 2Fs and is honest. I really just want to clean and measure everything and not do machine work because that's what they do. I've used Heads by Paul before but I'm open to other suggestions.

Thanks in advance and I really do appreciate your help Jeff. I'm feeling good about the progress I've made so far and will have peace of mind knowing that the job was done right when I turn the key and start the new motor for the first time.

Kent

Hulk
06-17-2007, 11:04 PM
Joe Calleja at CTS
Ron at Rocky Mountain Cruisers

Inukshuk
06-18-2007, 07:15 PM
I had heads by Paul do one for me 7-8 years ago. It ended up costing more than the quote but it worked great. This time around I'd probably patronize our cruiser community and go to Joe at CTS. Be sure to fix the oil galley freeze plug in the center of the pass side of the head. Typical fix is to tap it and JB weld in a bolt (8mm I recall). Maybe whomever machines the head they can do that for you. I'm sure there is a better write-up of this fix somewhere in cyberspace.

Hulk
06-18-2007, 07:19 PM
Be sure to fix the oil galley freeze plug in the center of the pass side of the head. Typical fix is to tap it and JB weld in a bolt (8mm I recall).

Isn't this a 3FE thing only? :confused:

Rzeppa
06-18-2007, 09:16 PM
Isn't this a 3FE thing only? :confused:In my observation that is correct, at least for the 1976 and 1978 vintage 2Fs I have, and certainly for Fs as well. That small plug is for the way they cross-drill the oil gallery for the 3F and 3FE head rocker oiling. The 2F rocker oiling is up through the #3 rocker tower itself, vertically

2X on Joe Calleja at CTS (303) 838-4472 for any disassembly/assembly on the 2F. For machine work, he farms out to a local machine shop.

I would also suggest, that since you are already that far into it (probably pretty much the bare block by now, that replacing the freeze plugs isn't that big a deal.

The cam bearings require a special tool to press the old ones out and the new ones in. I looked into buying one and discovered they cost several hundred dollars. Fortunately, cam bearings seldom wear nearly as much as say, rod bearings and main bearings, and can often be left in place. The FSM gives measurements for bearing IDs and cam journal ODs for oil clearance. If you don't have to grind your cam you can often simply re-use both the cam and bearings. Remember, the cam is second to last in the oiling system (after mains, rods, and timing gears), so clearance there is less of an issue for good pressure and flow. The very last downstream item in the system is the rockers of course.

wesintl
06-18-2007, 09:53 PM
In my observation that is correct, at least for the 1976 and 1978 vintage 2Fs I have, and certainly for Fs as well. That small plug is for the way they cross-drill the oil gallery for the 3F and 3FE head rocker oiling. The 2F rocker oiling is up through the #3 rocker tower itself, vertically

WHAT? :confused: That plug has oil behind it on any 2f. If that plug pops out you will loose oil and the engine will be toast if you don't catch it. That oil galley plug has probably killed more 3f's than 2f's but it's still a real threat. 79+ you definately want to drill and tap that casting plug. :thumb: I'd have to look at my 76 dome round chamber heads for the early 2f's but I'd still do it on those as a safety measure on any 2f/3f period.

Inukshuk
06-18-2007, 10:31 PM
WHAT? :confused: That plug has oil behind it on any 2f. If that plug pops out you will loose oil and the engine will be toast if you don't catch it. That oil galley plug has probably killed more 3f's than 2f's but it's still a real threat. 79+ you definately want to drill and tap that casting plug. :thumb: I'd have to look at my 76 dome round chamber heads for the early 2f's but I'd still do it on those as a safety measure on any 2f/3f period.

Wes has it right. Mine was on 82 2F and I was there watching the newly reassembled engine with a rebuilt head idle in the garage after its first run (ahh the joy of all the smoke from under the hood as the stuff burns off the gaskets the first time....) when, holey moley there is oil POURING out of my "new" motor!!! If it had happened on the road I would have been toast. I quickly shut it off and started looking for the leak. Couldn't find it at first (clean oil) so had a friend start it while I watched. Its a gusher!

I tried to find the recommended 8mm brass set screw to plug the hole but could not. Being lazy I bought a regular 8mm bolt, filed the underside of the bolt head to get the best seal I could without any glue. I tested by turning the motor back on. Once it was reduced to a tiny seep I cleaned it all up (many Q-Tips and carb cleaner in the hole) and JB welded the threads and around the bolt head. A forever fix.

After drilling I briefly turned over the motor (plug wire off coil) to use the oil to eject tap shavings. I changed the oil like a fiend after the rebuild anyway. Scott Brown has that engine last I heard. Who knows, maybe one of you does!

And, those years ago, it was wonderful RS members on the old topica list that helped me out!

Rzeppa
06-19-2007, 04:52 PM
WHAT? :confused: That plug has oil behind it on any 2f. That's why I qualified with my 1976 and 1978 2Fs!!! Before I posted, I went and took a look at both of them, and neither of them have that little plug.

When I post, particularly on technical issues, I try to make DARN sure I know what I'm writing about, meaning first hand experience, and better yet, I just went and looked experience!!!!

Implicit would be: Go check your head and see whether or not it has that plug. If it doesn't have it, ignore having to replace it with a threaded fitting. My guess is that it the alternative oiling scheme was introduced some time after the 12/1977 build date of my 1978 2F. My recollection was that it was only on 3F/3FEs, but for all I know they changed things while they were still making 2Fs.

wesintl
06-19-2007, 05:10 PM
Ok.. but you did qualify it with You said "In my observation that was correct" in quoting Matts post that it was a 3fe only issue. I understand that you qualify your observation as a 76 and 78 head. You should qualify that the 78 is non usa which is many times different and that your looking at a head that was the same for 4 years out of 15ish. I could easily assume that since your 76 and 78 didn't have that issue neither would my 79. Sorry for reading into it.

anyhow this is a 76 head which does have the galley plug...

How bout some pics of yours without jeff?

Hulk
06-19-2007, 08:13 PM
Hmmm. So my '81 2F is just waiting to start spurting oil at some inconvenient time and location, eh?

Shark Bait
06-19-2007, 08:23 PM
Hmmm. So my '81 2F is just waiting to start spurting oil at some inconvenient time and location, eh?

Sweet! :eek: :rolleyes:

nakman
06-19-2007, 09:48 PM
Aw crap, I thought that was just a 3FE thing too.. someone tell me if I need to worry about this.. :dunno:

Uncle Ben
06-19-2007, 09:59 PM
Aw crap, I thought that was just a 3FE thing too.. someone tell me if I need to worry about this.. :dunno:


Get yer little LED fleshlight and go take a gander doood!

wesintl
06-19-2007, 10:06 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Certain failure of the pot metal that plugs that galley is more prone to fail once the head has been hot tanked but the machine shop fails to drill and tap. IMHO there is less failure in stock form. You could jb weld the end or if you're extra careful you could drill and tap while on the truck. You just have to be careful about the shavings. another way people do it is cross drill it. Otherwise it's fine as it has been for however many miles.

Inukshuk
06-19-2007, 11:00 PM
Worry worry worry. Right after the ham radio meetings we'll have a get together and all look and see who has it!

Ok, I think we have hijacked kvanoort's thread enough.

kvanoort
07-14-2007, 03:59 PM
Just thought I would post an update on my 2F engine rebuild and ask if anyone has a good list of all the parts I'm going to need for the project. I appreciated the machine shop recommendations but I've taken the block, crank, head, and all the pieces to Smith Racing. Tom Smith was highly recommended by Kip Valdez of Metal Works Performance Engineering. Tom doesn't usually work on imports but he has done one other 2F in the past. So, I dropped everything off and Tom measured the bore to determine if it had ever been machined before and it hadn't. Tom also had a 2F Factory Repair Manual on hand which made me feel a little better about taking my motor project to him.

With that as background, does anyone have any suggestions, advice, things I should pass along to Tom before he gets started. Since I bought the 2F motor as a used motor that hasn't been running since who knows when and since the cylinder bores are a little rusty and scored I'm going to have them machined to the first oversize. The crank is in good shape but has a few grooves. It's right on the borderline so I'm just going to have that turned too. I really want to do everything right the first time on this motor so that I know the powerplant solid.

As for parts, if nobody has an existing list of all the various parts, gaskets, etc. for rebuilding a 2F that they could share I would greatly appreciate it. I'll pay you back in :beer: . Otherwise, I'll go ahead and create one and share it with the board. Are there any specific parts that should be OEM? I'm willing to pay for OEM if they are truely better parts.

Thanks in advance for your help. Let me know if you would like to see any pictures of the progress.

Kent

Hulk
07-16-2007, 12:02 AM
There are lots of local Toyota dealers that have knowledgeable parts counter guys. I usually deal with Jerry and Joe at Burt Toyota. Stevinson is another good bet. Or you could call Cruiser Dan at American Toyota in Albuquerque.

Uncle Ben
07-16-2007, 08:37 AM
Boulder Toy is the closest dealership. Talk to Jerry the parts manager....he will get ya hooked up!

kvanoort
07-16-2007, 10:39 PM
Thanks. I'll give them a call tomorrow.
:cheers:

kvanoort
11-09-2007, 11:17 PM
Is it okay to just post a link to my 1972 fj40 project that's on ih8mud or should I update my Rising Sun thread separately?

I'm hoping to paint the reassembled engine block tomorrow. Here's are link:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=138817&referrerid=16424

Shark Bait
11-10-2007, 08:07 AM
Way cool, Kent. Looks like a fun project. Hopefully you were able to take back the after market parts you didn't use. What color are you going to paint it? :D

kvanoort
11-10-2007, 08:28 AM
I purchased some Black, Hi-temp, Engine Enamel from Bill Hirsch Auto.

Here's a link: http://www.hirschauto.com/newpages/paint.htm

As for all the extra aftermarket parts, I have a 1974 F block sitting in the garage that might be a future project.

Time to get busy out in the garage. I'll post some new pics of today's progress.