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View Full Version : It's discrimination I tell you! (motorcycle related)


Beater
06-05-2007, 07:10 AM
So, we have a loudness problem here in Denver. I am the first to admit that my wife's srx could be considered as a contributor. The thing is, that the custom harley thing went off big here, and LOT'S of people have straight pipes. I am all for loud, but jeez, straight pipes are annoying, and always have been.

I can vouch for how bad it is, as these yahoos have incredible arrogance. I live in on the border of a dink (double income no kids) yuppie area, and these people seem to forget that people live around them.

So, now, in it's infinite wisdom, the city (denver) put in a new noise ordinance. In fact, it's two decibels HIGHER than the one that was already on the books! Seems the cops couldn't enforce it, as it required a sound meter to enforce, and they are around 1k apiece. The law has always applied to all vehicles, but now the new one has a new provision aimed at making it more enforceable. If you get pulled over, and your bike is made AFTER 1982 and it doesn't have a pipe with the epa noise stamp on it, you get a ticket. Then the clock starts, and you have 2 weeks to prove to a judge that you have "corrected" the problem or face the full force of the ticket (points) and a 500.00 fine!

So my Yosh is at least twice as quiet as my supersport (not even a ss2r) and it doesn't have the damn epa stamp on it. My vespa p200 has an expansion chamber on it that I built, so that's out. Oh, and the supersport that I grafted to fit the srx250? No Stamp...

All three of my bikes together MIGHT be as loud as one of these fricking hogs, but now I have to do something, or risk getting fines, and having to de-tune my bike!

ARGH!

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_6062291

engineerjoe
06-05-2007, 07:53 AM
They've had something like this in the springs for a while now. The only difference is that the police can write you a ticket for any exhaust that is "aftermarket" or "non-stock". I have never been pulled over for it (I have a performance exhaust on my DD truck and on my SV650, believe me, the SV's exhaust borders on LOUD)

I think this law is just another one that the police will use to pull suspicious people over. Just drive/ride responsibly and they should leave you alone.
If I ever get pulled over on my motorcycle for this reason I will say that it is more of a safety thing (so other drivers hear me) - If the cop doesn't buy it I'll pay the fine.

Beater
06-05-2007, 09:50 AM
actually - the wording is that they can pull over anyone to check if they have it, given cause (they think it's loud) and they can inspect if pulled over for anything else...

I applaud what they are trying to do, straight pipes are stupid. In fact, mra even requires a silencer...

I just don't like the vagueness. I miss state inspections.. life was much easier.

subzali
06-05-2007, 11:25 AM
sorry to hear that John, that is pretty ghey. It's like the bullbar bans in some parts of the world, snorkel bans in others, and maybe someday soon they'll be enforcing the same exhaust restrictions on our trucks too!

I have to say though, I worked at the bottom of the hill of Washington St. in Golden, and bikers from the Buffalo Rose would go charging up that hill and the echoes from the buildings would make you deaf in the back of the store with the front door closed.

wesintl
06-05-2007, 11:31 AM
I miss state inspections.. life was much easier.

I don't... like you can't swap out pipes for an inspection etc. They never did anything to curb them.

I don't mind a little rumble but some of the straight pipes are too much but it's usually the idiot operator on the throttle that's the issue. Let me rev my **** up and show you how cool I am!

SteveH
06-05-2007, 02:53 PM
In Colo Springs, someone asked (in the paper) how many 'noise' tickets were written last year, and the answer from the police dept. was "750, the majority of which were for cars" (not motorcycles). I suspect the low-riders get ticketed for noisy Mitsubishis, while the ear-splitting Harleys roll on past. Enforcement of this has to fall into the 'joke' category, I think.

nakman
06-05-2007, 03:35 PM
Noise stamp, eh? Reminds me of another bit of legal progress I ran into recently: I was at the dog park in Louisville and they had a sign up that said all dogs off leash must have a "voice & sight command tag" or else it's a $50 ticket. I guess I'm supposed to go get my dogs certified or something? who has time for that?

I don't like loud, obnoxious tail pipes, and generally feel the same way about the folks who own them. Kind of feel the same way about loud, obnoxious dogs... just not sure I need more laws about either one.

MDH33
06-05-2007, 03:45 PM
"loud pipes save lives"

should read:

"loud pipes make me feel like I have a life"

:rolleyes:

Uncle Ben
06-05-2007, 04:09 PM
Geeze....Nakman must be the real Shaman...he can read my thoughts and put them into writing better than I can! thanks "Nakaman" :thumb: :bowdown:
<snip> I guess I'm supposed to go get my dogs certified or something? who has time for that?

I don't like loud, obnoxious tail pipes, and generally feel the same way about the folks who own them. Kind of feel the same way about loud, obnoxious dogs... just not sure I need more laws about either one.

Beater
06-05-2007, 05:36 PM
my bikes are loud, but not obnoxious... redchilli's buell is a definitely obnoxious...




























just kidding..

Jenny Cruiser
06-05-2007, 09:05 PM
Live with it bro. A lot of cops ride hogs. They're not going to pull you over to check your pipes. I live off the road that leads to Bruce's. Lots of straight pipes go smokin' by my house, especially on the weekends. I don't mind. My RC was mad dog loud (Sato makes the best exhaust out there!). Got lots of attention from cops, but no tickets.

Red_Chili
06-06-2007, 08:07 AM
my bikes are loud, but not obnoxious... redchilli's buell is a definitely obnoxious...




























just kidding..
Only to a wimpy riceburner rider...
It's not very loud.

This law is an example of a legitimate, real, and annoying problem being addressed by inept government trying to cure the problem by a poorly written law just so they can feel like they tried - only to impact almost everyone BUT the offenders.

I could go into gun laws as a similar example...

Jenny Cruiser
06-06-2007, 01:09 PM
I heard they're only enforcing it in downtown Denver. I do what I can to avoid riding in downtown Denver.

Red_Chili
06-06-2007, 02:11 PM
Great. Guess where I work.
FWIW, neither my Buell modified stock exhaust nor my bone stock exhaust bear this EPA stamp. My Honda 650 does though. Guess which is louder.

Beater
06-06-2007, 04:31 PM
I know.. that is my true point. My yosh on the fizzer is a "street" exhaust, and conforms to the epa standard but I could get a ticket if I was pulled over (no stamp) and the cop wanted to be a tard..

I am going to print out the yosh and v&h product info and put it under the seats..

Uncle Ben
06-06-2007, 04:53 PM
I know.. that is my true point. My yosh on the fizzer is a "street" exhaust, and conforms to the epa standard but I could get a ticket if I was pulled over (no stamp) and the cop wanted to be a tard..

I am going to print out the yosh and v&h product info and put it under the seats..

Sell 'em all and buy a Honda! :lmao: :hill:

Jenny Cruiser
06-06-2007, 09:25 PM
Great. Guess where I work.
FWIW, neither my Buell modified stock exhaust nor my bone stock exhaust bear this EPA stamp. My Honda 650 does though. Guess which is louder.

Would that be an NT650? :cool:

Red_Chili
06-07-2007, 06:47 AM
The NT650 is sweet... the Hawk was kinda Buellish but Honda never knew what to do to market it (as opposed to Suzuki's DL650, likewise sweet but a bit peppier and clearer in its purpose) - but no, it is an XR650R, dualsported.

Me likee expedition vehicles with offroad capability. The XR has that in spades. The Buell not so much, but it will surprise you.

There are lots of street-legalized dualsports out there that began as offroad only. This law creates a conundrum, as most of those never were street certified by the EPA but they are perfectly legal under Colorado law. I wonder if that is the next cool thing about Colorado to fall... :rolleyes:

As soon as it gets on a Sierra Clubber's radar screen, I can envision a lawsuit that Colorado MV law violates the EPA or something...

Red_Chili
06-07-2007, 08:13 AM
It means the manufacturer paid the fees to have the muffler tested in an EPA lab for noise compliance for certain conditions (RPM level, so many feet away from the rear at such and so an angle). The whole motorcycle does get tested for emissions and some are coming with cats these days. The Buell dodged this by being as hellishly lean as possible while still producing good power and excellent mileage, only possible with EFI.

The law was intended to abate noise levels, but opens up a whole can of worms instead and really doesn't even address noise. Sound meters were too expensive they said, and they didn't want to get into subjective enforcement issues. Except, they did anyway and opened the can of worms.

Well written legislation is soooooo hard to do. You actually have to study and stuff.

Red_Chili
06-07-2007, 10:38 AM
No, its fee paying. Lots of noisy exhausts bear the EPA stamp. It guarantees nothing. A sound meter guarantees sound, and that alone.