View Full Version : Frankie's off road lift?
06-13-2007, 06:38 PM
anyone in the club running the Frankie's Off Road 3.5" lift on their 80?
06-13-2007, 06:53 PM
You could be the first!
06-13-2007, 07:42 PM
I just might be...
Looks interesting. Is it actually for sale or is it in development? I wonder if he's using the same caster correction bushings as everyone else?
06-14-2007, 09:25 AM
Nay is running that lift :D Dunno if he is a "member" or not, but I know he is running it.
06-14-2007, 09:30 AM
Just a heads up for those considering a 4" lift in the future....I will be selling my rear Slee 4" mediums in a little while so it might save someone a few bucks over new springs. I'm undecided about the fronts at this point.
06-14-2007, 09:37 AM
Man, 80 stuff ain't cheap, is it?:eek:
06-14-2007, 10:13 AM
I read Nay's write up on MUD. I'll like to get a ride in a rig with it installed. Sounds like a good match for what I'm looking for.
06-14-2007, 10:16 AM
Is it actually for sale or is it in development?
According to the website its in stock and ready to ship. I have not called to confirm as I need to wait until our house is done to start the mods on my 80. So that give me time to do my research. ;)
06-14-2007, 12:06 PM
There are a LOT of threads and a LOT of discussions on MUD about the FOR lift vs. the OME lift. A lot of back and forth and some heated debates. Nay is definitely a vocal supporter of the FOR lift.
FWIW I went with the OME setup from Slee. Seemed to be better suited to my plans and also seemed to have much more long term history compared to the FOR lift. I'm sure Christo could add a lot of thoughts but if you search MUD I think you'll get the basic drift :)
06-14-2007, 12:13 PM
I'm looking more the FOR vs Slee 4" kit. So if your reading this Christo please chime in.
06-14-2007, 12:17 PM
I'm looking more the FOR vs Slee 4" kit. So if your reading this Christo please chime in.
Yep, I believe those are more comparable to each other...I didn't want to go that big or expensive so I ended up with the OME lift. I think it really depends upon what your plan for the rig is. I could probably have stayed stock and been fine for my type of wheeling but a lift looks cool :cool:
06-14-2007, 02:26 PM
I bastardized my own setup. :D I'll give you my insights...or something :rolleyes:
I ran Slee 4" springs up front OME J springs in the rear. The rear was ever so slightly higher...I had ARB front bumper, TJM rear with spare.
I was running OME Shocks at first at both ends. She rode good and flexed ok. That was a pretty good setup I thought. I like space above the wheels that the 4" gave with my loaded down 80...i wonder about a heavy 80 with FOR kit. nay is running pretty light for an 80 so another thought.
I needed to do the panhards, I made my own drops for the brakelines, and then go rid of my swaybars all together (some like this, some don't) and was running Slee's front control arms.
I think both you are looking at caster/driveline issues....maybe...:D There's many ways to get in this lift range, and lots of ways to do it.
06-14-2007, 03:20 PM
I need a ride sometime in your 80. (FJBen)
I like everything I've read about the FOR except going real light. Like most I want an ARB front and Slee rear bumper or similar. Sliders, Drawer system, etc.. I don't plan to pack her real heavy, no roof rack. I'd pull a trailer before I put anything on the roof. So I think I'm kind of in the middle on weight. Full armor but not excessively loaded with stuff. Its just my wife and the dogs right now.
This will be my DD but not really every day as I have a company car. So it will see weekend wheeling, camping and the occasional grocery run into town. I want it to ride well on the highway etc...
I want to be able to wheel it pretty hard but my 40 will be for the high risk stuff if you know what I mean.
I'd like to see the FOR on a rig with armor. I guess I'll have to wait a while as its new. But I have time.
I'll be at Spring Creek :D
The comparable for FOR is really OME J, because it doesn't have all the extra goodies that Slee 4" comes with. The other OME kits aren't true comps because they don't fit 35's and the design premise is completely different. I'm not so much a "you have to buy FOR" supporter as I just see how many issues people have settling in on OME springs for the long haul, and it is that contrast in the design that is very useful to understand in choosing your lift.
I figure if you understand what your suspension was specifically designed to support, and if that design really fits across all of your intended usage, then you've got your kit and you spend the $$$. The FOR kit was my idea (35's on a relatively low lift using Bilstein 5100 shocks), but for me the rest of it is just using it (I've had the prototype for a year).
The first design premise is to allow avoidance of excess weight, so think a prerunner front bumper and smaller winch, avoidance of a large increase in rear bumper weight. Not "you can't carry any tools", just not that full "ARB look". So I can run around town just my arse in the seat and it's pretty much luxo soft. Add 7 passengers and their gear, etc, and the ride doesn't change as you hit the higher spring rate and it doesn't go all sloppy or stock 2nd Gen Runner arse dragging on you.
The other major design premise is to balance up and down travel to maximize tire size and rock crawling performance. One thing I really do not like about the basic OME kits is the extra up travel. It limits you to 33's, which happen to fit stock, and you get the body leaning down too much into the rocks. I could easily run 36's on this kit, but I don't have flares and that makes a big difference. OME J/L accomplishes a similar spacing down of suspension travel to allow the larger tires.
Probably the only real issue with this lift, or OME J for that matter, is you can find yourself in a bit of no mans land on caster. The blue bushings should be enough correction, but you sure have no guarantee the front shaft won't vibrate. I have OME CC bushings, and my angles are off t-case to pinion about five degrees. So it should vibrate quite a bit and more bushing correction could only make it worse without going far enough for a DC shaft.
It is from that perspective you can definitely say "just go all the way to a full 4" kit and do the caster plates and DC shaft". It's spendy, but Christo has nailed all of that down for you, so you can't suggest you aren't getting your money's worth. There's no question in my mind that 3.5" to 4" is a real sweet spot on the 80, and Slee has the full package. It is unrealistic to expect you won't end up doing much of what is on that kit at some point if you want to run 35's.
I've done the heavier mods before, and they are just a killer on an inline six at our altitude. The 80 is heavy enough that it might not make all that much difference, honestly, but it's just not my thing. I figure with a tucked up front tube bumper with winch between the frame rails (no M12000 :D ), trimmed rear frame and tube bumper, and what is for me an optimized suspension I have created most of the benefit of a taller lift while staying as low as possible and maximizing the underlying platform of the 80, which is just so solid. Breakover angle is still an issue - only tires and lift can help us there.
So that's why I like the FOR approach...it's my approach :hill: , and if you agree with that basic premise, you might find it's not that easy to find a kit that will work for you off the shelf as the focus of the 80 market is largely in the other direction.
Ben, you'd probably be shocked :hill: to know that my valving is 168/73 when you didn't like the 255/70 Bilstein valving with the rear OME J springs. The final kit has custom valving, but it's still light. I can't claim to know all that much about coil spring materials, but these seem to be a very different beast than OME, which is why they are so spendy. I'm looking forward to seeing some other feedback since I'm just one guy...
06-15-2007, 04:48 PM
Nay, is there another picture of the FOR springs. The one posted on mud confuse me. Only the top winding is closer (and then only a litttle) and the rest seem to be evenly spaced, so I am wondering how those are progressive. If you look at OME 866's then they have about 3 wraps that are closer and the rest is further apart. Unless they used a tapered wire.
I am wondering if you have a pretty stiff spring rate with soft shocks? They might explain why you are not getting droop when hauling the yard stuff.
Christo, I think you are seeing it right. It's not a large progressive aspect. I don't have pics of the final springs, though. I didn't take them because I didn't have OME to lay them side by side anymore.
I don't know the final spring rates even though I know where it started, which was a direct comp to OME medium. I can say the rear was increased and if we can say all spring rates are equal, which is probably a bad assumption, then this should be pretty close to OME J front to rear, OME J being 220/250. The FOR rear are something in the 10-15% range stiffer than the fronts, but I was never that close to it to know final rates. The coil design is quite different - there are less winds compared to OME and I'd guess given coil prices a different alloy composite.
I do agree that the use of Bilstein shocks is a part of the feel. These don't feel much different to me to the 255/70 valved 5100's I've run before on my XJ with an increased spring rate. I probably had 10 suspension iterations on the XJ before settling into a slightly higher spring rate (ZJ coils up front) and Bilstein 5100's. That result has been pretty much duplicated on my 80 so I'm satisfied that it is a consistent approach that plays well as a general suspension design for lifted 4x4's.
The biggest problem for every lift between your 4" kit and OME medium is a predictable caster result without vibes. We can talk springs all day long, but caster is that tail that wags the dog and you just can't take bets on doing anything but staying at 2" up front or explicitly designing for a front DC. For anybody looking at 35's that's got to be a top 1 or 2 question.
06-16-2007, 10:21 AM
Nay thanks for the info
I wish I was able to make Spring Creek tomorrow but my 80 is still stock and the honey do list is a mile long. I'm just hoping I can do a little work to my 60 in between.
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