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View Full Version : Need to replace fr. pinion seal


CardinalFJ60
07-14-2007, 12:06 PM
Never done this before and the front diff is leaking real good on the 40 ('77)...any tips or advice? seems fairly straightforward, but I typically get halfway through things and realize I might be over my head. :rolleyes:

Thanks!

nakman
07-14-2007, 01:23 PM
Leave truck on ground. remove driveshaft, then bust that pinion nut off. that's the bugger, 150 pounds from the CO2 may be the only way, or else a huge breaker bar. the truck's on the ground to help secure the wheels while doing this.

Use a seal puller to yank the old one out, put the new one in, then use a new pinion nut. Crank the nut down (120+ ft pounds) then stake the nut using a small punch. I did the rear on that 62 I had, I think that was about all there was to it. hth..

CardinalFJ60
07-14-2007, 01:42 PM
Thanks, helps alot! If I don't have a seal puller what can I use instead? Or is it a trip to NAPA for me?

thanks!

nakman
07-14-2007, 01:46 PM
Trip to Napa, or trip to my house... it's worth having. But a big screwdriver would also do the job, just not as pretty. You've got the new seal, right? so you know what you're up against..

CardinalFJ60
07-14-2007, 02:12 PM
no new stake nut. having a new one sounds pretty important to me, or is it...either way, I'll probably pick that up before digging in. I'll get a puller, who knows when the other one will go...then one in the 60... ;)

thanks for your help! timing was perfect. All I could find the FSM was, "Remove in this order, installation reverse of removal". A 1 banana guy like me needs more than that. :D Haven't checked haynes yet, though....


thanks again!

-s

Red_Chili
07-16-2007, 09:00 AM
Hey Tim, if you crank that nut to 120 lbs/ft, don't you risk overcrushing the crush sleeve and having too much pinion bearing preload?

SOP with most Toy diffs is, tighten the nut to EXACTLY where it was before, and restake/locktite it into position, that way your preload is exactly the same as before.

Unless you use pinion spacers and shims like I do... then torque away ma-man.:cool:

nakman
07-16-2007, 09:21 AM
Hey Tim, if you crank that nut to 120 lbs/ft, don't you risk overcrushing the crush sleeve and having too much pinion bearing preload?

SOP with most Toy diffs is, tighten the nut to EXACTLY where it was before, and restake/locktite it into position, that way your preload is exactly the same as before.

Unless you use pinion spacers and shims like I do... then torque away ma-man.:cool:

Absolutely.. but since we're not pulling thirds and setting the preload again, this is the "just swap the seal and put it back" method. 120 may possibly be a little much, if it feel like you're smashing the crush sleeve then stop.. hey you could always PM the guy who set up that diff and ask him for the magic number.. ;)

But how do you know where it was before? If you're spewin' gear oil then you kinda have to just go for it, right? If you end up spewin' oil again, or if you have some evil gear whines afterwards, then pull the third, go to the :beer: store, and drive to Ben's (in that order).

subzali
07-16-2007, 01:09 PM
Buy a seal puller. It will do wonders when you do your front axle service. It's less than $10 too. As far as the stake nut, *sometimes* you can unstake it and there will be enough left that you can restake it. Might be less than ideal, but if it works...I would try first to get a new nut though.

wesintl
07-16-2007, 01:23 PM
Hey Tim, if you crank that nut to 120 lbs/ft, don't you risk overcrushing the crush sleeve and having too much pinion bearing preload?


He should have spacers. Crush sleeves didn't come out til 85 iirc.

CardinalFJ60
07-16-2007, 03:21 PM
Hey, thanks for the enlightenment! I'll pick up a seal puller and stake nut, and since I'm not setting up the 3rd, I'll just torque away. Maybe 100#? the haynes says to take an in/lb torque wrench to measure what it was upon take-out. but if you're setting it over 100# when putting it in, what good is an in/lb wrench? maybe I'm overthinking....

nakman
07-16-2007, 07:32 PM
Hey, thanks for the enlightenment! I'll pick up a seal puller and stake nut, and since I'm not setting up the 3rd, I'll just torque away. Maybe 100#? the haynes says to take an in/lb torque wrench to measure what it was upon take-out. but if you're setting it over 100# when putting it in, what good is an in/lb wrench? maybe I'm overthinking....

Plus you're fighting a dented nut.. not sure how to subtract for that.

Wes trumps Haynes. :cool:

Uncle Ben
07-16-2007, 07:58 PM
Hey, thanks for the enlightenment! I'll pick up a seal puller and stake nut, and since I'm not setting up the 3rd, I'll just torque away. Maybe 100#? the haynes says to take an in/lb torque wrench to measure what it was upon take-out. but if you're setting it over 100# when putting it in, what good is an in/lb wrench? maybe I'm overthinking....

First throw the Haynes! Second, inch pounds refer to the preload not nut torque. This is on a spacer or crush sleeve? If it's a spacer then a safe torque would be 100ish foot pounds if its a spacer then you can torque it till your preload is in spec. Rut Ro....I might have suggested something thats not in Nakmans FSM....never mind....just kidding! :p: ;)

Red_Chili
07-17-2007, 07:58 AM
I dunno guys, if that unit sports a crush sleeve, you do NOT want to crush further. You will feel the resistance go up when you contact the crush sleeve, take it just a SKOASH tighter but definitely not 120 lb./ft. Stake the new nut and/or locktite it.

If that old iron came with spacers and shims, then yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Rezarf
07-17-2007, 05:10 PM
Shawn-

I have to do this too, want to have a pinion seal party?

Drew

Rezarf
07-17-2007, 05:14 PM
<High-jack on>

Actually, this is embarrassing...

My rear pinion is so loose that I can move it up and down (at the drive-shaft about 3/16"). I know at the minimum I am getting vibration, and at the worst the pinion can snap and be draw into the pumpkin... should I order more stuff than just the seal?

I have re-torqued the pinion nut before and locktite'd the whole thing, but I may be in for more of a third swap.

I have been putting it off in hopes of an ARB swap and do it all at once, and that is 6 months out at a minimum. However, I do have a complete spare third in the garage. Anyone?

Since I can't wheel right now, I thought I would dig into some more of the less "easy" (read messy) PM stuff. Also looking for a good used 4 speed to rebuild. Ian?

thanks!

<high-jack off>

MDH33
07-17-2007, 05:27 PM
Shawn-

I have to do this too, want to have a pinion seal party?

Drew

Me three. When are you guys going to do this? I already have the seal, just need the nut.

60wag
07-17-2007, 07:48 PM
Locktite isn't sufficient for a pinion nut. If you torque the nut properly and it still has play, thaen the diff is shot and needs to come out. If it feels good (no radial play) when torqued, stake the nut in the groove cut in the pinion shaft. Reusing an old nut isn't a crime. A new one is nice but you can reuse the old one is it isn't trashed.

MDH33
07-17-2007, 08:01 PM
lots of good advice. Sounds like Cardinal, Rezarf and I should recruit one of you pros to help us out. Share tools/knowledge and get it done. Especially before the 40's Only Run. :thumb: :beer:

Rezarf
07-17-2007, 11:00 PM
I'd be game, but I think I am in for surgery. :(

Drew

Red_Chili
07-18-2007, 07:47 AM
Locktite isn't sufficient for a pinion nut. If you torque the nut properly and it still has play, thaen the diff is shot and needs to come out. If it feels good (no radial play) when torqued, stake the nut in the groove cut in the pinion shaft. Reusing an old nut isn't a crime. A new one is nice but you can reuse the old one is it isn't trashed.
Zuk (http://www.gearinstalls.com) uses locktite regularly... I have as well. Agreed on reusing the old pinion nut (and you can tell where it was before, too).

Drew, sounds like your pinion bearings are toast.

Rezarf
07-19-2007, 02:42 PM
Hey I might order some parts for this at Toyota, anyone want me to order an extra seal or pinion nut while I am there?

Rezarf <><

CardinalFJ60
07-19-2007, 04:55 PM
Already got'em, but thanks for the offer - Check C-Dan on mud...and maybe compare with local dealers. I actually just drove over to Boulder Toyota...they had 3 pinion seals in stock - I took two of them. but can't remember how much they were.

MDH33
07-19-2007, 05:20 PM
Hey I might order some parts for this at Toyota, anyone want me to order an extra seal or pinion nut while I am there?

Rezarf <><

I could use a pinion nut for a '73 FJ40. That would be great if you could snag one for me, otherwise I'll order it from CDan. I already have a new seal.

:beer:

Rezarf
07-27-2007, 12:27 PM
I am probaly doing this next week. Martin, you still want that nut?

MDH33
07-27-2007, 12:42 PM
I am probaly doing this next week. Martin, you still want that nut?

Thanks, but I already ordered it and should be here Monday. :thumb:

PabloCruise
07-29-2007, 04:47 PM
All,

You may be leaking or loos e because you spun a shim. When you rip out the old seal, this is the ideal time to dig a little deeper and check your stack o' shims and spacer. Don't ask how I know...

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=49036