PDA

View Full Version : School me on my welds...


Rezarf
07-31-2007, 11:01 AM
So yesterday, I spent about 2+ hours just burning scrap, playing with the voltage and wire speed, and the gas pressure... it was UBBER FUN! :p: :D

I loved that I can acutally see the weld puddle, b/c with the flux core the smoke and sparks made it really hard to see it clearly.

I tried welding some sheet metal for fun, I tried running beads on some thicker stuff and welding some tube together (thin 16ga.). The thicker stuff was easier to control, I burned through the thinner stuff, but then practiced closing up the hole with the mig too. :hill:

I have a few questions and I will get a few pics up soon:

What should the gas pressure be set at for straight C02? If I backed it off too far it would spatter pretty good. However, is there any reason to run it any higher than what it takes to shield the weld from spatter? I had it around 20ish on my dial that ranges from 0-30.

Also, do I need to make small circles as I move the puddle down the joint? Or with a MIG can you just move the wire in a straight line. My welding handbook says pull a straight line, but I was taught (arc welding) to move in tiny circles.

It was hard to move in circles on the sheet metal. The thicker stuff actually started to look good. I beat on things with a Big Hammer and nothing broke at over 90 degrees, so that is a plus.

I feel like the welds are sitting on top of the metal a bit high, and I can't tell if that is because I am putting too much material in, moving to slow, or it isn't penetrating enough...

I will go snap a few pics.

Thanks! :thumb: :D

mhdsummers
07-31-2007, 11:17 AM
http://www.millerwelds.com/education/tech_tips/MIG_tips/

Rezarf
07-31-2007, 11:19 AM
Try not too :lmao: ;)

pics:

Rezarf
07-31-2007, 11:22 AM
Looks like metal slugs :D

Beater
07-31-2007, 11:34 AM
in most, your travel speed is too high, your wire speed too high, and stick out too far.

Uncle Ben
07-31-2007, 11:40 AM
in most, your travel speed is too high, your wire speed too high, and stick out too far.

Hate it when you stick is out to far! :lmao:

mhdsummers
07-31-2007, 11:48 AM
I agree turn down the wire speed and get closer to your work.
To avoid the welds in Pic #2, travel at a steady pace. A couple of those welds look really good though (pic #3). In that weld it looks like you made little cirlces. This probably helped you to slow down and to travel at a steady pace allowing the weld to penetrate.

My welder will allow you to change the wire speed while you are welding. You might want to try it just to see how it affects the bead.

Beater
07-31-2007, 02:14 PM
also, make sure your angle is not too "flat" or to close to the material. Meaning, you want to have the gun tip at aroun 50-70 degrees.

:)

bustanutley
07-31-2007, 03:02 PM
Crank up the heat, slow down the wire speed and the speed you are moving and make C's. I run mix so I don't know about 100% CO2. I'm a pusher, not a puller :cool: unless i'm doing sheet metal.

Rezarf
07-31-2007, 03:23 PM
Thanks! I will try to slow down a bit. The one that looks good #3 was pretty easy since I was trying to move the puddle up and down on the vertical facea and the horizontal face.

Another question. Should the cup be sticking out further than the wire tip, if I tighten mine up they line up exactly... just wondering.

I will slow down and decrease the wire speed.

Thanks!

Rezarf
07-31-2007, 05:20 PM
So I have been burning wire for about the past hour, and it is spatter city! My welds have benifited from everyones advice, I appreciate it, but I have spatter, and I am hearing good amount of popping.

I might be kinda low on C02, is there any else to check? Nothing different from yesterday to today, same metal, wire, gas, and machine.

Any guess?

Thanks!

Uncle Ben
07-31-2007, 05:43 PM
So I have been burning wire for about the past hour, and it is spatter city! My welds have benifited from everyones advice, I appreciate it, but I have spatter, and I am hearing good amount of popping.

I might be kinda low on C02, is there any else to check? Nothing different from yesterday to today, same metal, wire, gas, and machine.

Any guess?

Thanks!

MIG welding spatters....kind of a slow constant "raspberry" noise.

Beater
07-31-2007, 06:01 PM
dependendant upon cleanliness of metal, thickness, amperage, co2 cfm should vary... on tap D, wirespeed 4.5, cfm should be around 15 on a lincoln 175sp, now that being said, the general rule is the hotter the heat, the more gas.

There are sooooo many variables here man... but, mig still splatters. only Tig and torch don't.

as a rule, splatter means your too hot. If it spattering too much, take the machine down a notch, but put the wire speed a little higher than what the guide says on the machine. If you can feel the wire "sticking" or "pushing" into the base material, your wire speed is too high.

Splatter can also mean your stick out is too far. anything below 175 amps on mig and you should be around 3/8ths stickout. This combined with proper angle of the gun can make it difficult to see your puddle, so you have to be careful. A common mistake is to change the angle of the gun and stick out to see the bead you just left..

Also, splatter can be caused by too much mill scale left on the material.

you may also not have been wearing your special welding sandals

Rezarf
07-31-2007, 07:58 PM
MIG welding spatters....kind of a slow constant "raspberry" noise.

UB-

What do you mean by Rasberry?

Thanks!

Yesterday was clean clean clean, today is spatter spatter spatter.

Can't figure it out.

Rezarf
08-01-2007, 12:57 AM
Well I played so much today I "sun burned" my forearms.

AxleIke came by and said my amount of spatter was normal, and John, I set my stuff up like you said and it made a difference for sure.

My welds look better, started to make C's and circles instead of pulling in a straight line. My welds seem less on the surface and more into the metal now too.

I am nearly through my first small roll. :D

I am going to try some differnt style joints tomorrow and see where I end up!

John, what are your setting for 1/8" steel tubing?

Thanks!

Drew

lfd270ben
08-01-2007, 02:52 AM
technique looks pretty good just turn up the heat and slow the wire down, I've always been taught that you want the two pieces to melt in to each other more then just fill the gap with wire.

Beater
08-01-2007, 07:55 AM
use the machine's guide. Then adjust. Just remember that settings are not static for thickness, the type of joint matters too, along with prep. The more you prep the joint, bevel, depth of gouge, etc, will effect the voltage/speed settings...

"C's" don't necessarily make a stronger weld, but the always make it prettier. Don't confuse pretty with strong.

FYI - lincoln's welding handbook, available online and at some stores is STILL considered the industry bible (even by miller-heads) The army welding manual is a good, if not lengthy read as well. You should be able to download the army one after a google search.

SROR/AKA 2BAD
08-01-2007, 08:20 AM
i use flux so i have no idea about the gas (well :o )

as far as tech, i use the push and pull method, it just depends.
but mostly i've change to the push method and think about making a check mark.

push the wire to where you're welding (this pre-heats the area thats being welded) draw it back and slightly,slightly lift up on the tip of the gun.
repeat!

you want your welds for the most part to be 1/4" wide, so when you "push" the wire ahead of the weld, you don't need to go any further ahead than 1/4"

you really need to wear long sleeves or you can buy welding sleeves from fastenal for like 6-7$$ for a pair. this is what i wear.

bring your helmet down and we can play someday :thumb:

Groucho
08-01-2007, 08:20 AM
MIG welding spatters....kind of a slow constant "raspberry" noise.

UB-

What do you mean by Rasberry?



Can't figure it out.

You know, when you make a fart noise with your mouth. It is a term I most frequently hear b-cause of my daughter. The sound that is made when they stick out their tongue between their lips and blow. That is the sound UB was making reference to.

Beater
08-01-2007, 09:25 AM
think sizzling bacon with no pops...

Rezarf
08-01-2007, 02:02 PM
Yeah, I think I had the gas WAY up and it was blowing the molten wire as it heated up.

I spent some time on my welding cart last night and I am going to finish it up today if possible. Thanks for all the tips.

Drew

mhdsummers
08-02-2007, 10:18 AM
Post up pics of your cart when you are done.

Rezarf
08-02-2007, 11:30 AM
Here are a bunch of welds that I made yesterday...

Please give me some feedback/comments/critics (sp?)

Everything feels better now that I am slowing down. My welds are a little fat or wide still, trying to figure out how to tighten them up, I think I need to slow the wire speed down to do this and not over heat everything.

Rezarf
08-02-2007, 11:33 AM
More pics...

Rezarf
08-02-2007, 11:36 AM
One from late last night in paint :D

Uncle Ben
08-02-2007, 12:35 PM
Nice cart! Seems some wheels would help with moving it around! :lmao: :hill:

Beater
08-02-2007, 12:49 PM
they look a little "cold" to me. but, much better.

Red_Chili
08-02-2007, 01:30 PM
What this weld needs is more cowbell.


Errrr..... I mean, penetration.

Uncle Ben
08-02-2007, 02:32 PM
What this weld needs is more cowbell.


Errrr..... I mean, penetration.


Ohhhh Bill....you are such a savage! :Princess: :eek: :hill:

CardinalFJ60
08-02-2007, 04:24 PM
Hey Drew,

I've got a set of swivel-type wheels that originally came with those metal kitchen racks you see in Costco. Lemmeno if you want'em - just collecting dust in my garage. I wanna say the wheels are like 5" in diam.

Rezarf
08-02-2007, 04:24 PM
Nice cart! Seems some wheels would help with moving it around! :lmao: :hill:

Here you go! ;) :D :thumb:

CardinalFJ60
08-02-2007, 04:24 PM
beat me to the punch... looks great!!

Rezarf
08-02-2007, 04:30 PM
Thanks guys!:beer: this is like a :hill: welding class... on line, with me being the :hill:

I am working in 1/8" all day today, and although my welds look a bit better, I am not seeing the discoloration that I thought I might on the reverse side of the weld. I am only using .025" wire. Also, when I grind the weld smooth, I see evidence of the seam still there in spots. I am assuming I am not getting the base metal hot enough?

Maybe I should break out the huge 8" roll of the .030 wire I bought? Or do you think that if I bring up the voltage it will do a better job? It is hard to keep the weld to around 1/4" width and get penetration... if I go wider it seems to settle into the metal a bit more.

Any suggestions are always welcome!:thumb:

Uncle Ben
08-02-2007, 04:39 PM
Definitely go with .030! .025 would be Ok for thicker sheetmetal but on the thin side for structural welding. I run .030 with my small Linclon on mix and .035 flux core as splatter wire. On my Miller 210 I use .035 mix.

Rezarf
08-02-2007, 04:42 PM
good enough for me, I am going to swap it out and have to refigure all the settings out!

Drew

nakman
08-02-2007, 05:00 PM
Drew this is great stuff, you've definitely made me consider getting into welding at some point, I'm a little less intimidated by it now. But why'd you put on those wussy little wheels when you've got that set of MT'R's in the corner? I mean this cart isn't going to wheel for squat with those little castors on there... :lmao:

Hey I've got those extrusion things from Brian that you asked me to grab, can you swing by tonight?

Rezarf
08-02-2007, 06:56 PM
But why'd you put on those wussy little wheels when you've got that set of MT'R's in the corner? I mean this cart isn't going to wheel for squat with those little castors on there... :lmao:

Hey I've got those extrusion things from Brian that you asked me to grab, can you swing by tonight?

Thanks Nak! PM sent...

Rezarf
08-02-2007, 07:11 PM
Well, the .030 wire finally allowed me to hear the sizzle sound pronouncedly. :D

I can also see that the weld puddle is drooping into the metal instead of resting on top of the metal and, that the wire is now filling the "crater"...

...ahhhhh, I feel like I am getting closer with each hot spark down my shirt! :D

I put my :thumb: in there for scale, it is 2x3x.120" tubing.
Comments!

Drew

Uncle Ben
08-02-2007, 07:25 PM
Atta boy! Thats looking a bunch mo betta! :thumb:

Rezarf
08-02-2007, 07:44 PM
What should the back of the metal look like? Discoloration? Metal punching through along the bead? It is glowing orange like crazy... just as orange as the weld...

Rezarf
08-02-2007, 07:45 PM
Atta boy! Thats looking a bunch mo betta! :thumb:

Thanks Kevin! welding is SOOOOO :cool:

SROR/AKA 2BAD
08-02-2007, 10:05 PM
the last pics look real good.

when you are butting the ends of the bumper, are you beveling any of the plates or the end of the bumper?
or are they tight and flush.

Rezarf
08-02-2007, 11:30 PM
tight and flush... thanks Jim.

SROR/AKA 2BAD
08-03-2007, 08:02 AM
tight and flush... thanks Jim.

on end pieces, put some bevel on the edges,fill the "valley" sort to speek.
you will get real nice penetration.
i'll take a pic today of what i mean.

Beater
08-03-2007, 08:08 AM
much better. now, two things, buy some weld kleen 404, (anti-splatter) you can get it at the better welding shops, it's pink/red and comes in an environmentally friendly spray bottle with refills. After you clean your metal, not just the joint either, but about 6" in each direction, spay it lightly in the weld area and HAF (heat affected zone) about 6" out in radius or area. Stuff is the bomb, and the little splatter you get won't stick.

Next, you need to turn your gas up a bit. Leave it where it is set now, and grab your gun (welding gun that is) and turn around so you can see your gauge while squeezing your gun's trigger. Notice how much your gauge drops while running. You need to set your flow to your desired setting while running.

Also, notice your HAF colorations start narrow, then expand, then go narrow again. The goal is to have the discoloration be the same throughout the bead area. Use your HAF coloration as well as your bead contour to help yourself figure out your speed and penetration control.

All told, VERY good in a short amount of time. I'm jealous.

As my uncle johnny said (my namesake and the guy who tought me said) "Remember, welding is just like being with a woman. Size matters, but you want a good fit, and it's gotta be clean. You want it to be hot, but not too hot and you can't go too fast either, and by the same token if you go to slow, she'll break up on ya. When your done, you should be able to just wipe it down and feel satisfied"

He was about 65 when he taught me.. what a great guy he was..

Beater
08-03-2007, 08:49 AM
That was a charming, heartwarming story, John. You can test it out tonight.

From: your wife.

Red_Chili
08-03-2007, 08:54 AM
:eek:

Busted!

Ahem, back to the subject-
You now have sufficient cowbell, Drew!

Uncle Ben
08-03-2007, 08:57 AM
That was a charming, heartwarming story, John. You can test it out tonight.

From: your wife.

RUT RO......busted!!!! :lmao: :lmao: :bowdown: :Princess: :hill:

nakman
08-03-2007, 09:56 AM
RUT RO......busted!!!! :lmao: :lmao: :bowdown: :Princess: :hill:

LMAO!!! :lmao: Oh that was great.. and I've got even more appreciation for welding now. :D

Rezarf
08-03-2007, 10:09 AM
on end pieces, put some bevel on the edges,fill the "valley" sort to speek.
you will get real nice penetration.
i'll take a pic today of what i mean.

Jim, I think I know what your talking about, I just didn't do it, I have beveled the edges on a few butt welds to get more penatration on the edges and "fill the gap."

However, I would still love to see how you prep you stuff before burning the ends in :thumb: :cheers:

Rezarf
08-03-2007, 10:10 AM
What should the back of the metal look like? Discoloration? Metal punching through along the bead? It is glowing orange like crazy... just as orange as the weld...

Anyone?

Rezarf
08-03-2007, 10:15 AM
That was a charming, heartwarming story, John. You can test it out tonight.

From: your wife.

AWWWW SNAP!:lmao:

Red_Chili
08-03-2007, 10:56 AM
The backside will show the coloration of a heat affected zone. Yeah, it goes as orange as the weld, depending on thickness.

Rezarf
08-03-2007, 11:33 AM
The backside will show the coloration of a heat affected zone. Yeah, it goes as orange as the weld, depending on thickness.

Thanks Bill-

It is hard to clean the inside of the tubing but I can tell that it is discolored and buring up the mill scale.

Red_Chili
08-03-2007, 01:26 PM
Sounds like enough cowbell to me!

Rezarf
08-03-2007, 01:46 PM
Okay fellas here is where I am at. If I punch the heat up one tap, I start to burn through :(

However, each of my welds are consistently burning through the mill scale on the inside of the tubing and discoloring all the material back there. I have beat on these tubes with a 3lb hammer and tried to pry them off with a huge lever to no avail, and no movement.

Below are the welds I am starting to make every time.

...John, the discoloration thing really helped :thumb: , I am spending more time at the start and finish to make sure not to cut the weld puddle short.

...Jim, the bevel thing works great, I can tell a difference when I cut the joint now, I am no seeing any line (joint) anymore.

So to each of you, do you think I can go ahead and weld up the chassis of my trailer, and have it be safe? I feel good about it, but if there is something else I should do/practice/test/try... I am wide open to your advice. This thing will roll down the road behind my 40 someday.

I feel my welds are consistent and I have practiced the only joint (a T intersection) I will be doing on my chassis on 8 different tubes, all the way around the tubing.

Whadda' you thinks? :eek: :D :eek:

I appreciate all the help!:cheers:

Here is the last weld I did, I have had about the last 4-5 joints all look like this:

Uncle Ben
08-03-2007, 02:02 PM
That is a beautiful weld! Run your puddle a tad longer so when you pick it back up on the next side you don't have a pinhole. WELD THAT TRAILER DUDE! You are more than ready! You welds already look better than most of the backyard blazers and when you consider how many homebuilt trailers are running down the road (most of them overloaded) you will beam with pride knowing yours is rock solid. Welding is better with practice and you have one heck of a good start! Your puddles look like your heat is spot on! :thumb:

Beater
08-03-2007, 02:12 PM
Anyone?

The only thing you should be caring about is the puddle size and shape. Period DO NOT look anywhere else

the top picture, that weld will crack, if it hasn't already. Do not bevel more than 50% of the base material. In fact, 30-40% is more than enough.

remember, your tapped side is voltage, not amperage. On this machine, it is a constant voltage machine, your amperage is a function of the resistance caused by the variation in the stick out (or distance to the puddle) and the wire feed.

You can lightly vary the heat by changing the wire speed and stick out.

wesintl
08-03-2007, 02:21 PM
Already light years ahead of me. Well done so far Drew!

Rezarf
08-03-2007, 02:39 PM
Thanks guys, your expertise has been wildly helpful. It has been a few good days. I am blown away how much time it takes to measure/cut/clean/prep and then fit, just to run about a 10" section of tubing! :D

I am going for it, if I screw up... well then, I will start over!


Already light years ahead of me. Well done so far Drew!

Wes, I have cheated a bit, Stacy is in Iowa for the week with her sister who just had a baby, I took the past three days off just to burn weld after weld, and get the hang of this. I am happy so far, but I would have taken months without being able to be in the garage for 12+ hours each day.

We'll see! :thumb: :cheers: :eek:

Rezarf
08-03-2007, 02:41 PM
That is a beautiful weld! Run your puddle a tad longer so when you pick it back up on the next side you don't have a pinhole.


UB-

Do you mean run the bead around the corner at the end of each pass? It has been hard for me to turn the gun around that corner, I will try to extend it a bit more.

Thanks! :thumb:

Beater
08-03-2007, 02:48 PM
RUT RO......busted!!!! :lmao: :lmao: :bowdown: :Princess: :hill:

oh - and I was not busted, I was INVITED.... BIG difference

Rezarf
08-03-2007, 02:49 PM
oh - and I was not busted, I was INVITED.... BIG difference

:thumb: :lmao:

Uncle Ben
08-03-2007, 04:23 PM
UB-

Do you mean run the bead around the corner at the end of each pass? It has been hard for me to turn the gun around that corner, I will try to extend it a bit more.

Thanks! :thumb:

The puddle around the corner doesn't have to be deep. The principle is when you start the new bead you can push the molten puddle onto the previous puddle and start pulling the weld again.

Uncle Ben
08-03-2007, 04:24 PM
oh - and I was not busted, I was INVITED.... BIG difference

Call it what you want dude but the fact remains that you were OWNED! :p: :lmao: :lmao: :hill:

Beater
08-03-2007, 05:52 PM
Call it what you want dude but the fact remains that you were OWNED! :p: :lmao: :lmao: :hill:

I've been owned for 17 years...

Rezarf
08-04-2007, 06:05 PM
Here is what all my welding has been about, getting my camping trailer going finally!

Here are a few spy photo's ;) Thanks again for all the help. I feel like I was getting good penitration and I had a blast doing it! :beer: :beer:

I have a whole build-up thread on mud for this little guy... should be a fun build... been in the works in my head for years now, finally nice to see it happen.:cheers:

Beater
08-04-2007, 11:15 PM
very well done... my stuff never looks that good (for myself)...

corsair23
08-05-2007, 01:52 AM
So Drew....

Ummmm, when are kits going to be available? ;)

Seriously though, nice work and can't wait to see the finished product! :thumb:

subzali
08-05-2007, 08:55 AM
MMMMM....classy. I like the 40 series lights on it. That's a nice touch. :thumb: Great job on the welding so far too, I'm jealous.

nakman
08-05-2007, 10:02 AM
Most impressive, Drew, that thing looks awesome! :thumb:

Red_Chili
08-05-2007, 02:33 PM
Yeah, but it ain't as cool as my trailer... no diff....:hill::hill:

Rezarf
08-05-2007, 03:24 PM
Thanks for all the compliments guys!

Here is a link to the whole enchalada...

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=158552

happy times!

Drew

Rezarf
08-06-2007, 08:41 PM
One more question for now. If I want to mate up 1/4" tubing to the 1/8" tubing for the draw arm, do I set the welder for the 1/4" material and spend less time dipping into the 1/8" side?

Thanks guys!

SROR/AKA 2BAD
08-06-2007, 10:38 PM
One more question for now. If I want to mate up 1/4" tubing to the 1/8" tubing for the draw arm, do I set the welder for the 1/4" material and spend less time dipping into the 1/8" side?

Thanks guys!

thats what i do with diff thickness material.
it's like a milli-second of a change

:thumb:

Hulk
08-07-2007, 10:06 AM
Cool trailer!

Rezarf
08-07-2007, 10:23 AM
Cool trailer!

Thanks Matt- We'll see how it goes.


Drew

AxleIke
08-22-2007, 05:28 PM
Now I have a welding question for the experts:

I've got my welds down pretty well now, however, i hate the way they look. When i see professional welds, they are small, well defined beads. I'm getting plenty of penetration, and the welds look pretty good, but they are HUGE. Do i need to move faster, or turn something down? I want a good weld, but a nice bead. Its like i have too much wire, but if i turn down the wirespeed, my welds look like crap, and are still huge.

This is on a miller 175.

Beater
08-23-2007, 09:34 AM
my worthless .02:
most people use too slow a fast a wire speed, without enough power or too slow travel. Voltage/amperage too will have an effect on the bead height. It also really depends on the thickness of material.

Since most home wire feeds are constant current machines, the "power" pot adjustment changes the voltage, and the amperage is a result of the wirespeed in relation to that voltage.

Rezarf
09-03-2007, 11:08 PM
How do you weld this tight angled stuff? I can't seem to get the gun in close enough to make the weld puddle right. Is there a trick or two someone might want to share?:bowdown:

I now know how close the nozzle has to be to make good welds, and I am out about 1/8-3/16" past the sweet spot. Any advice, just shove it in and pull the trigger? :confused:

And what about when the edge is sitting there, I feel like I would burn through it too fast, any tips there too?

Thanks! :thumb:

Rezarf
09-04-2007, 09:31 PM
TTT

Anyone?

SROR/AKA 2BAD
09-04-2007, 11:21 PM
get as close as you can, start at the top and work your way down.

bring it down i'll do it for ya :thumb:

as far as the end piece. i'd work a bit more on the flat part and edge over if you know what i mean.

i would have capped the end first, you would have more "meat" to weld with.

Beater
09-05-2007, 07:53 AM
increase the voltage to compensate for the additional stickout.

work in an "A" pattern or triangle as you go up.

Red_Chili
09-05-2007, 08:12 AM
Cut down your penetration on the thin stuff, less voltage and less feed, and move a bit quicker.

Is this back seat welding, or team welding? Armchair quarterback welding?

Rezarf
09-05-2007, 12:37 PM
Thanks guys.

Jim, The ends will not be capped because I am going to install little doors over them to store long poles for an awning in them.

Sounds good, I will try a few scrap peices!

Thanks! My trailer is coming along nicely! :D What do you think?

Red_Chili
09-05-2007, 12:43 PM
Very sweet. Gotta admire a man who throws MT/Rs under a trailer!

corsair23
09-05-2007, 12:45 PM
WOW! I can't believe how great my trailer kit is starting to look Drew :D

You do plan to deliever it when you are done, correct? I imagine the one you make for yourself will have even more features :)

SROR/AKA 2BAD
09-05-2007, 02:38 PM
Very sweet. Gotta admire a man who throws MT/Rs under a trailer!


i have yet to figure out why someone would put such an aggresive tire on a trailer.:confused:

an all terrain with a less agrresive tread would keep the drag down.

DevinSixtySeven
09-05-2007, 05:04 PM
Drew those welds are looking great!

Dunno what gun you're using, but I have an M10 if you're still needing something small to get in that angle.

Treat edges the same way you would, if you were welding thin to thick...spend a little more time on the flat and wick the edge in to the puddle, like SROR was saying.

Isaac, do you mean your beads seem too tall, or too wide?

-Sean

AxleIke
09-05-2007, 05:40 PM
i have yet to figure out why someone would put such an aggresive tire on a trailer.:confused:

an all terrain with a less agrresive tread would keep the drag down.

He put the same tire and wheel on the trailer as his truck, so he can rotate off the trailer and get more life out of the tires. Also, two more spares if he is having a REALLY bad day!



Isaac, do you mean your beads seem too tall, or too wide?

-Sean

Both.

Rezarf
09-05-2007, 06:28 PM
i have yet to figure out why someone would put such an aggresive tire on a trailer.:confused:

an all terrain with a less agrresive tread would keep the drag down.

And this comes from the man who's slogan is "if you are going to build it, then over build it!":eek::D

Pretty easy. I can have two tires that are street tires, or have two more to rotate between my DD. BTW, I scored both new MT/R's for less than the price of one off Craigslist.

Honestly, there is a certain cool factor in the rig and trailer looking similar. This thing will be smurf blue with a white top when done too :thumb:

Drew

corsair23
09-05-2007, 06:31 PM
This thing will be smurf blue with a white top when done too :thumb:

Drew

Drew, my 40 is red man :confused:. I think the smurf blue and red will clash. Then again the hardtop is white...So, I guess red, white, and blue wouldn't be so bad :thumb:

Rezarf
02-07-2008, 02:20 PM
Hey fellas, well this thread is where it all started so I thought I would pose a new question as I move into my next phase of building this trailer. Attaching sheet metal to the tube frame.

Both the tubing, 1x1" square, and the sheet are 16ga and I am going to be attaching most of the sheets from the inside of the structure. I am thinking of punching lots of little holes in the sheet clamping it in place and then rosette welding them close...

Sound about right? Also for this light stuff, should I drop back to the .025 wire instead of the .030?

Thanks a bunch! :thumb:

Drew

Red_Chili
02-07-2008, 02:32 PM
Yup. Others may differ but with my Miller I can get .030 to do the deed pretty well. Short duration. You will be also welding to structural members, no? Like, L stock or small tubing? Pure sheet won't be strong.

If you are talking vertical members, simply stitch weld (NOT continuous bead) the tubing to the sheet in the corner where the materials meet. Again, very short duration. Spot and/or stitch, not bead. The sheet WILL buckle and warp, so heat management is critical.

Uncle Ben
02-07-2008, 02:47 PM
Pop rivets would also be a good option as you can lay a thin bead of silicon everywhere the panel touches structure and pop rivet the panels in place. That will stop the rusting between the pieces and let you remove without damaging the panels if you change your mind about something.

Beater
02-07-2008, 04:00 PM
well the proper technique would be to do edge spots at the ends with the sheets clamped evenly across the edge to be welded. Then edge-spot the middle. Then divide the gaps again, and again, and again, until you get about 1" space between spots, or possibly even .5". Then run bead alternating spaces to control heat warpage.

As for the wire diameter, that's not as important as the voltage/amperage. If you could get a 110v with .023 wire, you would be in like flynn. However, with a 220v, you will need to start the puddle on the structural side, then push it over. You will spend 2-3 times the amount on the structural side vs the sheet metal side.

make sense?

Rezarf
02-07-2008, 10:42 PM
Thanks guys, that sounds great. Yeah, I thougt about rivets and haven't ruled them out but I am going to seam the seams anyhow with good selant and the welder makes fast work of bonding the pieces.

I will give it a few tries and let you know how it turns out.

Drew

Rezarf
02-08-2008, 11:09 PM
Should I be scared to weld up a receiver hitch? They cost about 100 bucks to my door for the fj40... I am tempted to take matters into my own hands. Seems like lots of folks are welding thick L material to a receiver tube and calling it a day.

Is this sketch, or should I look more into it?

thanks!

Beater
02-09-2008, 10:37 AM
I would do it, no problem. You can come over and stick it here if you want. I would loan you my machine, but it ways about 300lbs... The hardest part imho is the pattern making. You can oval/oblong the holes with a plasma or torch to get it close. I am going over to a salvage yard (architectural) this morning, but I can definitely help tomorrow.

I would just use 1/4 tube and angle myself. with some gussets on the receiver to cross tube. _|_

j

Uncle Ben
02-09-2008, 10:48 AM
Should I be scared to weld up a receiver hitch? They cost about 100 bucks to my door for the fj40... I am tempted to take matters into my own hands. Seems like lots of folks are welding thick L material to a receiver tube and calling it a day.

Is this sketch, or should I look more into it?

thanks!

Just do it! ;)

Rezarf
02-10-2008, 10:14 AM
Think I should switch over to flux core wire to get a better burn?

I can get one all fabbed up for 75 plus the ride with it already powder coated.

Red_Chili
02-10-2008, 05:00 PM
Not necessary. But if you want to it won't hurt anything.

Rezarf
02-23-2008, 03:07 PM
Hey guys, I am burning in my sheet metal today and I am having blast! I have a quick question, I have been tacking the panels into place, but I am thinking that running a short 1" stitch would be better in the long run...

... is that overkill it is 16ga sheet getting "hot glued" to 16ga tubing. I am spacing my welds at 4 inches apart.

I am going to burn in a few stitch welds and see how it does with warpage. :o :eek: :thumb:

Thanks!

Rezarf
08-14-2008, 10:24 PM
So, my headers have a decent exhaust leak (thanks for helping figure it out UB)

I am going to attempt to weld them up. Any idea what the typical tubing thickness is of the tubes? My headers are from Man-A-Fre, but the site is uninformative... :rant:

Kevin, you mentioned pulling them... is it a bad idea to give them a go while on the rig? I am clear of any rubber parts from what I can tell.

Any tips before diving in? Should i be worried about welding around the carb and metal fuel lines?

Thanks... trying to avoid a Ka-boom! :D

rover67
08-14-2008, 10:56 PM
weld them on the truck. just guess at the thickness and back off if it is melting too much. if you want me to tig them you can swing by here and we can give it a go.

Uncle Ben
08-15-2008, 12:55 AM
So, my headers have a decent exhaust leak (thanks for helping figure it out UB)

I am going to attempt to weld them up. Any idea what the typical tubing thickness is of the tubes? My headers are from Man-A-Fre, but the site is uninformative... :rant:

Kevin, you mentioned pulling them... is it a bad idea to give them a go while on the rig? I am clear of any rubber parts from what I can tell.

Any tips before diving in? Should i be worried about welding around the carb and metal fuel lines?

Thanks... trying to avoid a Ka-boom! :D

If you can access the crack with them on blaze away sparky! :hill:

Rezarf
08-15-2008, 01:15 AM
If you can access the crack with them on blaze away sparky! :hill:

Sparky... :rant:






:lmao:

Red_Chili
08-15-2008, 08:46 AM
weld them on the truck. just guess at the thickness and back off if it is melting too much. if you want me to tig them you can swing by here and we can give it a go.
How many beers would it take to get you to give TIG lessons?

I have a HF TIG welder that Beater gave me, not much, but it would make a great place to start. Haven't touched it since he brought it over. Gotta get a bottle of Argon I guess, first. Can't do it with Argon/CO2 mix?

Hey Drew, be SURE your ground is good and close to the weld. DO NOT GROUND TO YOUR ENGINE BLOCK. Ground to the exhaust ONLY.

Rezarf
08-15-2008, 10:34 AM
Thanks Bill!

Red_Chili
08-15-2008, 12:15 PM
There was a fella welding on a semi tractor I heard about. Everything was painted, but he found a convenient ground - the bolt on the harmonic balancer. Very good ground, welds came out great.






The semi wouldn't run, wouldn't crank, nothing. All the main bearings were welded solid.

subzali
08-15-2008, 12:35 PM
:doh:

DaveInDenver
08-15-2008, 01:19 PM
There was a fella welding on a semi tractor I heard about. Everything was painted, but he found a convenient ground - the bolt on the harmonic balancer. Very good ground, welds came out great.






The semi wouldn't run, wouldn't crank, nothing. All the main bearings were welded solid.
I've always wondered if that was true or not. I was told the same story except that it was Cat D6 he was welding on, not a semi. I'd always sort of assumed that was urban legend.

Red_Chili
08-15-2008, 01:47 PM
I see absolutely no reason to doubt that this would happen. In fact, it would most likely have to happen. It might turn over, but would sound like all heck broke loose as the crank ground itself against at least one melted bearing.

The only part of it that makes it suspect is that someone would be so dumb. But then again I have done enough dumber things as to lend credence to the story! :lmao:

Rezarf
08-15-2008, 04:39 PM
How many beers would it take to get you to give TIG lessons?

I have a HF TIG welder that Beater gave me, not much, but it would make a great place to start. Haven't touched it since he brought it over. Gotta get a bottle of Argon I guess, first. Can't do it with Argon/CO2 mix?

Hey Drew, be SURE your ground is good and close to the weld. DO NOT GROUND TO YOUR ENGINE BLOCK. Ground to the exhaust ONLY.

I have one of those magnetic mount grounds and it works great so I can ground right to the headers.

Thanks!

Beater
08-15-2008, 04:48 PM
bad news on mag mounts. Do not place them too close to the weld area. the arc will be affected by the magnetic field

rover67
08-15-2008, 05:32 PM
How many beers would it take to get you to give TIG lessons?

I have a HF TIG welder that Beater gave me, not much, but it would make a great place to start. Haven't touched it since he brought it over. Gotta get a bottle of Argon I guess, first. Can't do it with Argon/CO2 mix?

Hey Drew, be SURE your ground is good and close to the weld. DO NOT GROUND TO YOUR ENGINE BLOCK. Ground to the exhaust ONLY.

Wouldn't take any beers... but 'm probably not the best one to give lessons.. I learned from an an old hotrod guy in a fab shop I worked in for a while.. everything he showed me was seat of the pants. I don't know the proper terms and methods. But i'd be happy to get ya started. It mainly just takes practice ( i know you know that). It's nice though because it's not as messy as GMAW welding so you can practice without "dressing up" for it.

I have never had good luck with 75/25 TIG welding. The CO2 contaminates and burns up the Tungsten, and generally gives a pretty crappy looking weld. You could borrow my argon tank anytime though.. it'd save you having to buy one. It's just a general air swap out deal-e-o. I could bring it to a meeting. I have been Mig welding most stuff lately anyways.

rover67
08-15-2008, 05:35 PM
oh yeah, if the headers have dirt/mud crusted on them at all be sure to grind it off before you start... while you can burn through most things, that crust that develops on exhausts WILL NOT BURN OFF. Save yourself the headache and prep it nicely.

let me knwo if you want me to swing by when you weld it up...

Beater
08-15-2008, 05:41 PM
if anyone wants to play tig, just contribute to my gas fund, and you can play away... argon is pricey and goes quick on tig (air cooled)