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waggoner5
08-07-2007, 01:18 PM
I need a CB and I see that some people are running Ham radios also. My question is....Is there a quality radio that can do both that is easy for a dummy like me to use?

nuclearlemon
08-07-2007, 01:23 PM
keep in mind that for ham, you have to have a license.

Shark Bait
08-07-2007, 01:39 PM
I need a CB and I see that some people are running Ham radios also. My question is....Is there a quality radio that can do both that is easy for a dummy like me to use?

I think the answer is no. I think you can listen to CB channels on some Ham radios, but not transmit. Check out www.qrz.com for the Ham practice tests. First level is Technician. You go to Ham Radio Outlet in Denver to look at gear. :D

Romer
08-07-2007, 01:43 PM
Gary,
The cool thing about the Ham is when I was driving to Moab and passing Grand Junction, I was talking with lexusben in Golden and Groucho about 60 miles behind me.


On Fins, I was talking to folks back in camp.

waggoner5
08-07-2007, 01:50 PM
What radios do you guys have?

Hulk
08-07-2007, 01:50 PM
I need a CB and I see that some people are running Ham radios also. My question is....Is there a quality radio that can do both that is easy for a dummy like me to use?

It's a good question, but I haven't seen a radio that will do both. I now have 2 radios in the 80, and only the CB in the 40. The Ham radio is far more useful, but the CB connects you with the rest of the group.

If it were me, I'd buy a Ham radio for a new rig and use a handheld for CB.

FYI: Next year, it is likely that we will require a radio at Cruise Moab (2008). Either a CB or a Ham radio will qualify.

Hulk
08-07-2007, 01:54 PM
What radios do you guys have?

Yaesu FT-7800R (http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=106&encProdID=3C10CFA04DF2657239AEACCA0D33FF2E&DivisionID=65&isArchived=0)

http://www.yaesu.com/ProductImages/FT-7800R_thumb.jpg

Romer
08-07-2007, 01:58 PM
The basic one you ned is a 2M. The Licesence allows you to talk on multiple bands, so I got a dual bander. Tim and Chris have the next higher version the 8800 which allows you to use the radio as a repeater. Lots of threads on this.

Here is what I have and where I bought it. If your coming to the Rally Saturday you can check out Mine and others so you can see the different radios and what you can do with them.

Nathanial (Groucho) is our resident expert.

FT-7800R -- Yaesu FT-7800R 2M/70CM Dual Band FM Transceiver. Wide Receive of 108-520MHz and 700-999MHz (Cell Blocked). NOAA Weather Alert. Illuminated keypad & microphone.

K400CNMO -- NMO Deluxe mount. w/6.5' RG-316 Teflon coax & PL259.

SBB-5NMO -- Comet 2M/70cm Mobile Antenna (Black), 3.0/5.5 Gain, 38" Length, NMO Connector

External Speaker ( I currently have it wired but don't use it)

You may need the 10Ft antenna extension cable dependent on where you mount the unit.


http://www.gigaparts.com/radioindex.php

Also go on ebay look up seller W1Jim and buy the Yaesu cables (extension & aux audio extension) for $15. All high quality, 25'- more than enough. This is in place of the $75 extension kit sold elsewhere.

waggoner5
08-07-2007, 02:00 PM
I don't mind the license part. I can do that. How difficult is that radio to say go go CH 4 on CB frequency? Thanks for the link Matt.

Groucho
08-07-2007, 07:13 PM
I think technically it's fine to use a HF ham radio on CB as long as you follow the rules (i.e. 5W PEP transmitted power). But you really should be a licensed ham to do that. The gov'ment can cite you for intent to operate illegally if you are not a ham. I dunno the ins and outs of the legal details, so that might be best left as only hearsay.

Thanks Romer for the expert thing. But alas, I am still a student as we all are.

The frequencies allocated for CB (26.965 MHz-Channel 1 thru 27.405 MHz-Channel 40, spaced in anywhere from 10-20 MHz separations) are goverened separately by the FCC. Technically, any radio able to TRANSMIT in those frequencies is supposed to be certified by the FCC for all of the wierd things they look for, like power limits, RF exposure, bandwidth, etc before it is to be used. Some CB Radio operators illegally modify their CB Radio equipment and wander beyond Channel 40 to the bottom edge of the ham 10-meter band. The FCC takes quick action to close down these pirate CB Radio stations. First offenders are typically fined over $1,000 for their "out of band" operation. (This is directly applicable for non-ham licensed operators. Licensed ham operators MAY modify CB radios for use on the 10 meter band without getting into hot water.)

For CB's, You may only use a type-accepted CB Radio transmitter per FCC Laws Part 95, Subpart D (http://www.provide.net/~prsg/mursrno.htm). Any internal modification to a type-accepted CB Radio transmitter cancels the type acceptance, and use of such a transmitter voids your authority to operate the station. The same type regulation applies to power amplifiers. Power amplifiers are specifically disallowed for use with a CB Radio. This means you are not technically allowed to make your own CB radio.

Bottom line is that you would be spending money $$$ on a high-test HF/VHF/UHF rig (like the FT-857D ($700) :thumb: or the Icom IC-7000 ($1200)) not to mention all of the electronics stuff you would have to be capable of doing to modify it to transmit on the CB frequencies otherwise you ruin said rig, and buying all of the external gadgets to make it all work.

We have thought of this question several times and the answers all seem to point us in the direction we all went: Throw out the CB and go strictly ham!. On last months Ghost Town Run, we had 4 hams. We were all jibber jabbin away while the rest of the group wondered if their CB was broken.

Don't fight it. JUst go with it, bra.

I don't mind the license part. I can do that. How difficult is that radio to say "go go CH 4" on CB frequency? Thanks for the link Matt.

What do you mean here? Just say it in the mike, I would guess? :hill: PLease clarify.

waggoner5
08-07-2007, 07:56 PM
You answered my question in your description. To go to a CB channel you must know the exact frequency and tune to it...Right?

My only issue is that 99% of the people I run with have CBs and I want to be able to communicate with them also without having to have 2 radios.

So...theoretically you could use use a ham to talk to CBs, but it would be illegal because of the power output?
You also say that it would take one of the 2 radios you mentioned to be able to communicate on both cb and ham levels and even then those radios would have to be highly modified to work. Right.
Just trying to understand what I am up against better.
Thanks for the tech help on this.

Romer
08-07-2007, 09:58 PM
hams and CBs are different frequencies that why we carry both

Shark Bait
08-07-2007, 10:11 PM
My only issue is that 99% of the people I run with have CBs and I want to be able to communicate with them also without having to have 2 radios.



I'm planning on running both in my FJ40, for a while anyway. :D

corsair23
08-07-2007, 10:32 PM
CBers must UNITE and fight the force :hill:

Had I known 4 months ago what I know now (which isn't much), I'm wishing I had gone with a nice Ham radio and a cheapy CB. Such is life and I'll have to keep fighting the Ham force for now until I can afford to upgrade :)

nakman
08-07-2007, 10:50 PM
If I read Nathaniel's post correctly, it looks like one could get a cheap CB and a cheap 2M radio for a lot less than a Ham radio capable of being modified to also do CB. right?

So how about install your CB, then get your license and then a handheld 2M radio. You can run a mag mount antenna for the Ham for tons more range, and you'd be right in there with the rest of the group.

Groucho
08-08-2007, 06:38 AM
You answered my question in your description. To go to a CB channel you must know the exact frequency and tune to it...Right?
To listen to a CB frequency on anything other than a FCC "type-accepted" CB radio yes, you would need to know the frequency. I did this yesterday on my HF radio at home while writing my first response. I tuned in the CB band and was listenting to some foul mouthed truckers on channel 18 probably using illegal amplifiers talking nonsense. I would not be able to key my mike, because the radio is designed to prevent transmitting on that frequency.

My only issue is that 99% of the people I run with have CBs and I want to be able to communicate with them also without having to have 2 radios. . Easy. Convince all of your buddies to get a ham license and radio OR don't worry about getting the ham radio and stick with CB.

So...theoretically you could use use a ham to talk to CBs, but it would be illegal because of the power output? .
If you took all the technical aspects of modifying the radios for granted, yes, you could use a Ham radio with a transmitter designed to operate in those frequencies to talk to CB.

You also say that it would take one of the 2 radios you mentioned to be able to communicate on both cb and ham levels and even then those radios would have to be highly modified to work. Right.
Just trying to understand what I am up against better.
Thanks for the tech help on this.
Those two radios represent the high and low price range of mobile/portable ham radios designed to work(not necessarily transmit) on frequencies that include both 2 meter and CB. For some folks the modifications are realatively straight forward, I myself would not attempt them for two reasons. One, I was not the factory who built the radio and would not come near to making the modifications as well as the factory who designed and built the radio in the first place. Two, any modification of this sort voids the warranty, so if something does go wrong(given the sensitivity of some of the circuits in those radios this is highly likely for anyone not skilled in doing so correctly), you have on your hands a $700-$1200 paperweight.

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Seriously, though, anyone interested in these questions needs to determine the reason for doing the ham radio hobby. Consider all the pros and cons, and then figure out if it is right for you. Maybe you want the Ham radio for the extreme difference in clarity over CB. Maybe you're interested in the hobby. Maybe it would be too much of a pain to have 2 radios. If all of the folks you wheel with are die-hard CB folks, maybe you want to keep things CB.

My old adage with regards to CB is "Don't polish a turd." You can spend $200-$500 on CB stuff and still not achieve the quality, clarity and range of VHF for trail talking. You can spend $150 on all you need for a VHF setup and talk to people 30 miles away like you were face to face. If you want to stay CB, make whatever equipment you buy work, don't just slap it together and expect great things.

My 0.50, whew!

Uncle Ben
08-08-2007, 07:31 AM
I'm not being assimilated yet but don't CB's operate on AM frequency while Swine's use FM?

Groucho
08-08-2007, 08:12 AM
This is the legal part I don't understand. If you read Part 95, Subpart E about the specifications for CB, it seems like any ham radio would have no trouble meeting the requirements. The bandwidth, sporadic and radiated emissions, sensitivity, etc. for CB is far less restrictive than what's possible with our ham radios. Ham radio is covered by the Part 97 requirements and since hams are expected to tinker, the actual technical requirements for ham are different. It's perfectly legal for you to modify and build your own gear for ham. You can take a CB radio, modify it for use on 11m and there's nothing wrong with doing that, perfectly within your realm as a ham. But I think once you do that, the radio is no longer technically legal to use on CB. So I guess my comments are only talking out loud, since ham rigs are not tested to Part 95. It seems the radios themselves should more than meet the technical requirements laid out (and naturally it would be up to the operator to make sure to use the proper transmitter power for CB). It's all moot because it's not legal to use it.

Dave,
I kinda preached this in the Ham class I did for the club last fall. You're correct, as a ham, part of the hobby is to tinker. So could someone get all funky and build a radio with two different VFO's in one box, one for CB and the other for VHF, sure! Would the FCC question a radio at 4 watts PEP that is transmitting on the CB frequencies, probably not in a hundred years. Bruce(WDW) made reference at the ham class to actually using a modified CB rig on 10 meters and it worked well using 3 watts of power. Correct again, according to part 95, it would no longer be a "type-accepted" CB radio. Is someone somewhere using a ham radio for both CB and VHF? Probably. Can anyone just go down to Radio Shack or HRO and buy a radio that does this? No.

Folks who are not in "the know" think that CB and VHF are relatively the same thing because the antennas are realtively the same height, and the radios are in a similar case. What remains a mystery is that to have that CB radio work at the same level as a 5 watt VHF rig you would need a much larger, much more effecient antenna than what is commercially available not to mention not as pratical to mount on a bumper.

Kevin,
The channels up to (IIRC) 23 use dual sideband AM. After that, 24 thru 40 MAY use single sideband (SSB) but most radios use AM for the entire band. VHF and UHF more commonly operate on FM, but some folks also use SSB. When used efficiently, AM gives a much richer, full signal partly because you are using the entire carrier to transmit the signal. SSB uses only half that carrier, so the same power carries further.