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Romer
09-14-2007, 08:19 PM
Got a hood scoop and it was the one Oleg was talking to me about before he got ill. Now all I need to do is install it. Another guy on Mud installed the same one without cutting the supports underneath, just the top metal. Figure lots of tape to protect the hood, measure and mark and check 4 times and then saw time.

I did the snorkel using someone elses write-up. This is kind of new territory and either need to take it to a shop (body shop) or get someones help who has the right tools and know how.


Any recommendations?

Shark Bait
09-14-2007, 08:24 PM
Terry, the guy that did all the work on Red_Chili's rig could do a good job.

Uncle Ben
09-14-2007, 09:18 PM
Before you butcher your hood you might give it some more thought. The last thing a SC'ed 80 needs is more air under the hood....they need to get rid of the heat. Ask Gary....he's already played this game. Louvers will lower you underhood temps a lot better than a scoop. Turn the scoop around backwards and you'll do more good!

Romer
09-14-2007, 10:01 PM
Before you butcher your hood you might give it some more thought. The last thing a SC'ed 80 needs is more air under the hood....they need to get rid of the heat. Ask Gary....he's already played this game. Louvers will lower you underhood temps a lot better than a scoop. Turn the scoop around backwards and you'll do more good!

Thanks for the perspective Kevin. Hopefully Gary will post up here. This was a mod Oleg and I had discussed to get rid of some of the heat under the hood. Still more than I would like. I don't understand why more air blowing in would hurt anything as the airflow is a sealed intake up to the snorkel. More air should cool down the external surfaces or create more flow to get some of the heat out. Please help me understand why this is a bad thing.

Uncle Ben
09-14-2007, 11:25 PM
Thanks for the perspective Kevin. Hopefully Gary will post up here. This was a mod Oleg and I had discussed to get rid of some of the heat under the hood. Still more than I would like. I don't understand why more air blowing in would hurt anything as the airflow is a sealed intake up to the snorkel. More air should cool down the external surfaces or create more flow to get some of the heat out. Please help me understand why this is a bad thing.


Heat rises not sinks! The scoop will help a tad bit as heat will actually come out of the hole around town as the pressure will be greater under the hood from the super heated air will overcome the low amount of forced air going in. On the highway the air right above the hood is actually more neutral because of the aerodynamics of the wind being pushed up at the large vertical grill and over the windshield. many places on the hood actually have negative pressure. Sports car hoods have more vertical surface area than your 80 does plus they have airdams and air tunnel designed grills to force more air through the radiator and also slice through the air friction rather than push it.
I'm sure the scoop will have some positive cooling effects but I think you will be disappointed on how little it will help. Your snorkel would actually cause more circulation under the hood from the forced air generated if it was not attached to the air box. The best thing you could engineer for our heat problem in these beasts is a way to encourage hot air extraction. Everything we do to make these trucks better off road complicates the air circulation under the hood!

Romer
09-14-2007, 11:31 PM
I found this thread where he wanted to get rid of it, different scoop. Didn't say why he wanted to get rid of it.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=21124

He also had another thread where his supercharger wasn't running as well as he thought it should. Didn't post his fanal result, did say the scoop made the temps under the hood cooler.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=26693

I found his write-up on the louveres http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=21162
He said he prefered the look of these to the hood scoop. I would go the other way around. A personal preference thing.

There was a comment from christo 3rd handed
I think it was Christo that said trying to jam more air in with a scoop without a good line for it to go out was not a good idea.

Considering it like you suggested Kev.

Romer
09-14-2007, 11:35 PM
Heat rises not sinks! The scoop will help a tad bit as heat will actually come out of the hole around town as the pressure will be greater under the hood from the super heated air will overcome the low amount of forced air going in. On the highway the air right above the hood is actually more neutral because of the aerodynamics of the wind being pushed up at the large vertical grill and over the windshield. many places on the hood actually have negative pressure. Sports car hoods have more vertical surface area than your 80 does plus they have airdams and air tunnel designed grills to force more air through the radiator and also slice through the air friction rather than push it.
I'm sure the scoop will have some positive cooling effects but I think you will be disappointed on how little it will help. Your snorkel would actually cause more circulation under the hood from the forced air generated if it was not attached to the air box. The best thing you could engineer for our heat problem in these beasts is a way to encourage hot air extraction. Everything we do to make these trucks better off road complicates the air circulation under the hood!


Good points. The guy who installed it on mud and in some other threads I read installed it to provide air for his intercooler for his super charger.


Hmmm, maybe I need to install blarsens (from mud) intercooler and then the scoop. Hmmm. Then more power and cooler.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=149478

Still like to hear what Gary has to say.

Uncle Ben
09-14-2007, 11:49 PM
Good points. The guy who installed it on mud and in some other threads I read installed it to provide air for his intercooler for his super charger.


Hmmm, maybe I need to install blarsens (from mud) intercooler and then the scoop. Hmmm. Then more power and cooler.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=149478

Still like to hear what Gary has to say.

I have read those posts. Unless his scoop is about 3 or more inches higher so it is actually in the airstream I question how much intercooling effect he is REALLY getting! Drag racers don't have hood scoops to cool engines but rather to supply cool air to the carb/throttle bodys and if you notice they are tall scoops so they will actually have some ram air effect.

Gary might pop in, hopefully he does. I asked him if the scoop on his 80 helped and he stated pretty much the same thing I did on the earlier post.

Side note: I do think they look kinda cool on the 80 hood! I am more into function though and if I punched up sheetmetal whatever I'm doing needs to be worth the loss of resale value!

Your buddy Dan has by far a higher efficiency intercooler than that guy does!

Romer
09-14-2007, 11:57 PM
whatever I'm doing needs to be worth the loss of resale value!



I was with you till here. :D

acon40
09-15-2007, 08:54 AM
Let me know what you find and what they charge.....I have had a scoop in the garage for a couple of months wanting to do this.......

Romer
09-15-2007, 09:19 AM
Let me know what you find and what they charge.....I have had a scoop in the garage for a couple of months wanting to do this.......


I'll post up. Right now it found a comfy spot on my shelf while I take my time deciding if I want to do this. The scoop cost me $20 on ebay so I figured I couldn't go wrong getting it and could always turn around and sell it. So many questions

1) Do I put it on backwards to give a path out for the warm air
2) Do I put in an intercooler and put it on facing front
3) Do I paint it or leave it black to match the snorkel
4) Do I take the $40 a guy on Mud offered me via PM
5) When does Ige switch from Jack and 7 (summer drink) to Jack and coke (winter drink)

Shark Bait
09-15-2007, 10:04 AM
I'll post up. Right now it found a comfy spot on my shelf while I take my time deciding if I want to do this. The scoop cost me $20 on ebay so I figured I couldn't go wrong getting it and could always turn around and sell it. So many questions

1) Do I put it on backwards to give a path out for the warm air
2) Do I put in an intercooler and put it on facing front
3) Do I paint it or leave it black to match the snorkel
4) Do I take the $40 a guy on Mud offered me via PM
5) When does Ige switch from Jack and 7 (summer drink) to Jack and coke (winter drink)

I vote for #4. I can tell you the answer to #5 is NOT Labor Day. :D

Rezarf
09-15-2007, 03:47 PM
Ken-

Don't flip it around... you will have to answer every yahoo in america why you installed your air scoop on "backwards" everytime you park your truck, and then listen to their explaination of why what you did was wrong.

Just my .02

Now louvers like a 40 on a Lexus... SWEET!

Drew

acon40
09-15-2007, 04:14 PM
If you decide not to do it let me know....>I could use a second scoop for a new project...

farnhamstj
09-15-2007, 09:30 PM
6) Buy an even bigger scoop. Straight pipe the exhaust out the hood. Install bigger tires in the rear and smaller tires in the front and get some sweet rat-fink graphics custom painted on the sides. top it all off with an 8-ball shifter.

Uncle Ben
09-15-2007, 09:32 PM
6) Buy an even bigger scoop. Straight pipe the exhaust out the hood. Install bigger tires in the rear and smaller tires in the front and get some sweet rat-fink graphics custom painted on the sides. top it all off with an 8-ball shifter.

Better yet just take the hood off! Problem solved....oh but ya gotta do the straight pipes too! :bowdown::flamingo::hill:

corsair23
09-15-2007, 11:04 PM
IF you keep it I vote for #2 & #3 but I've been know to like helping others spend their money :hill:

Otherwise, go with #4 and install some louvers...

Heck, go all out and do #2, #3, and install some louvers on top of it all

waggoner5
09-16-2007, 07:07 PM
Ken, The scoop on my truck was installed by the previous owner, but was not cut out to make it functional. I have done many scoops, louvers, vents, etc on vehicles and unless you need cold air to lower intake temps, or for a intercooler, it just doesn't help. I made mine functional and saw a small reduction in under hood temps but no difference in intake temps. I would not cut a hole in my hood for a scoop that small regardless which way it points. If you are wanting to lower underhood temps it will take more cool air than that small scoop can take in or let out. The only truck I have vented the engine bay that actually helped was an LT1 80 series that lives in Florida. AC is never turned off and the truck is in stop and go traffic daily. I louvered the hood in 5 rows which allowed quite a bit air to escape dropping underhood temps 20 degrees at rest and running down the road helped even more. I wasn't crazy about the idea moisture wise, but 5 years later its still working fine.

Romer
09-16-2007, 07:14 PM
Gary, thanks for the reply.

The snorkel has done an awesome job in lowering the intake temps by 20 degrees at least on a hot day.

I have the JDM aux fan which when I flip it on does it's job with the AC and a hot day. Just a bit hotter than I would like, but not technically a problem. Oleg and I had chatted about this and thought a hood scoop would help.

Kevin and other guys on mud suggested turning the scoop around. I also saw you contemplated that in one of yopur threads. This would allow an outlet for the hot air rather than an inlet. What are your thoughts about that.

Ken

waggoner5
09-16-2007, 07:26 PM
Turning the scoop around will help draw out the heat running down the road, but I would not know where to mount it so at speed it will not have positive pressure. Turned around front ways will work as a scoop and pull air in at all speeds until the bull bar changes airflow. I guess if I was wanting to get the best result possible from that scoop, I would see whats going on with the air towards the back of the air at hwy speeds. I don't know much about the 80 series as far as aerodynamics go but with the steepness of the windshield I would guess that at the back of the hood you do not have smooth airflow therefore the backwards scoop would not work as well to have the vacuum to help evacuate air. My gut tells me that a front facing scoop about where your mock up is placed would do about as much as anything else. Ultimately, I don't think its worth it. I will cut it for you if you want though.
G

Romer
09-16-2007, 07:32 PM
Thanks Gary

I will ponder this some more.

corsair23
09-16-2007, 08:08 PM
Romer,

Here is what you need to do...get some yarn and tape (blue painters tape). Cut the yarn into 2-3" long pieces and tape them to the hood in strategic places. Then go for some test drives and see how the wind flow affects the yarn (i.e. flowing straight back, going all over the place, etc.)

I know it sounds stupid/silly but it should give you an idea of the general flow of air across the hood as YOUR LX is setup now with the ARB etc.

P.S. I'm digging the hula hoops :hill: - You should bring those to the next meeting :thumb:

waggoner5
09-16-2007, 08:31 PM
That is a great way to see air flow.

farnhamstj
09-17-2007, 03:06 PM
This is kind of what I was thinking

wesintl
09-17-2007, 03:15 PM
The snorkel has done an awesome job in lowering the intake temps by 20 degrees at least on a hot day.


I'm not sure I buy that... How was that measured pre and post snorkel install. Or are you just measuring the temp at the snorkel inlet and old intake inlet?

Uncle Ben
09-17-2007, 03:23 PM
I'm not sure I buy that... How was that measured pre and post snorkel install. Or are you just measuring the temp at the snorkel inlet and old intake inlet?

His data prolly came from his OBDII reader, which would be reading the data stream from the mass air sensor.

wesintl
09-17-2007, 03:40 PM
His data prolly came from his OBDII reader, which would be reading the data stream from the mass air sensor.

I thought he always had a snorkel. But looking back in the members bios i guess that wasn't the case.

That's pretty impressive. I wonder what the Difference in the average 80* day...

Romer
09-17-2007, 03:46 PM
His data prolly came from his OBDII reader, which would be reading the data stream from the mass air sensor.


That is exactly correct reading the OBD Air Intakle sensor. I meassured it for a day prior to install and it averaged 135 deg F and after the install same drive similar conditions 115 deg F, some times even down to 98 deg F when driving quickly as the ambient air temp went into the high 80's. This was measured using my real time OBD II reader so I watched during the entire drive.

My understanding is that the air at this sensor is the important one for air/fuel misture and the supercharger. I also notice max boost has increased from approx 6 to about 7.5 psi. This is per my analog boost gauge in the cab.

edit - Per wes's new question, the above reading were taken on a +90 deg day back in July

wesintl
09-17-2007, 03:56 PM
Thanks.. I guess I believe now :D

Hulk
09-17-2007, 06:16 PM
Crap, now I want a snorkel.

/Never wanted one before.

Romer
09-17-2007, 07:07 PM
Thanks.. I guess I believe now :D

The stock air input location on an 80 is the inside of the fender. The temperature is hot from being near the engine and the flow is fairly constant even when driving.

The snorkel air input starts higher and away from the engine and the faster you drive the more air is forced into the pipe. As I was researching, it provided 3 beni's other than water crossings

1) Cooler air
2) More air flow
3) Cleaner air - Dust off trail is thicker under the wheel well typically than at the snorkel level.

The drawback I have noticed is that it's an idiot magnet

"say whats that thing there."
A snorkel
"no really"
A snorkel
" No I really would like to know"
It's my custom tailpipe
"Then why does it say snorkel on it?"
:rolleyes:


Back to the thread. I have taken care of the intake temps. It's the underhood temps I wanted to reduce with the scoop.

On a day like today with no AC, coolant temp is about 190 deg

On a 95-100 deg day with AC, the coolant temp is between 195-200 when not using any boost. No Aux fan

On a 95-100 deg day when I use boost e.g. highway driving with AC temp climbs to 205. I then turn on the aux fan and it comes down to about 195-200

on a 95-100 deg day mtn driving with lots of boost and AC temp with aux fan on I get temps down to 200-210. If the fan was off it would go to 215 to 220 unless I turned off the AC.

Once temp gets above 200 in either of the last two conditions, stopping at a stop sign or driving in slow traffic makes the temp climb a few degrees to 205 even with the fan on.

The above actually shows my system is running fine and the aux fan is doing it's job. Could also turn off the AC as a backstop if needed.

What I wanted to do with the scoop is lower the last few conditions by 5-10 degrees. Heat is an enemy to longevity, especially electronics.

Red_Chili
09-18-2007, 07:14 AM
FWIW, Terry at CIM can install your scoop in whatever direction you want and can paint it to match (friends don't let friends do non color matched scoops :lmao:). $20 on fleabay, eh? Stinker.

The area around the scoop is a fairly low pressure area though. Backwards would definitely draw out air from the engine compartment.

The problem is, it puts it right about where your cowl air intake is for fresh air. You'll likely be using your air conditioning just a tad more where before fresh air would have been just about right. This I discovered with a hole in my hood, much less a scoop facing rearward (which would evacuate a bit more air). It wasn't a biggie.

No worries on weather via louvers, you will have no issues.

spincycle
09-20-2007, 04:56 AM
1st: noob alert for this forum, although a long time Toyota driver & current owner of a much-modded '07 FJC.

2nd:
Having just installed a supercharger, and given the intake's (silly but unavoidable) location in the very forward position in the engine bay, I've been looking at a combination of a) forward-facing ram duct just above the SC air intake to help with feeding it cold air, and b) rear-set louvers to help with engine bay hot air removal removal.

Thoughts on this setup?

Romer
09-23-2007, 02:05 PM
Romer,

Here is what you need to do...get some yarn and tape (blue painters tape). Cut the yarn into 2-3" long pieces and tape them to the hood in strategic places. Then go for some test drives and see how the wind flow affects the yarn (i.e. flowing straight back, going all over the place, etc.)

I know it sounds stupid/silly but it should give you an idea of the general flow of air across the hood as YOUR LX is setup now with the ARB etc.


So if I do this what should I be looking for relative to consideratiuon of a scoop? If it's flowing straight back at that location is the correct thing to look for I would assume.

Again, I am not trying to lower intake as the Snorkel already does that. Just want to lower underhood temps 5-10 deg F on a hot day while driving. I know it won't do anything going slow or standing still.

corsair23
09-23-2007, 11:28 PM
So if I do this what should I be looking for relative to consideratiuon of a scoop? If it's flowing straight back at that location is the correct thing to look for I would assume.

Pretty much. That should indicate that the airflow is good and relatively "stable" wherever the yarn is blowing straight back. If it is dancing around or tending to flow forward then you'd know putting a scoop there definitely won't "catch" much air and force it into the engine bay.

Again, I am not trying to lower intake as the Snorkel already does that. Just want to lower underhood temps 5-10 deg F on a hot day while driving. I know it won't do anything going slow or standing still.

I hear you on that, although whether a scoop will accomplish that I dunno :confused:. If you have good air flow into the scoop then it stands to reason that you'd be mixing realtively cooler outside air with hotter engine bay air and should see some benefits. Thinking of where the hottest part under the hood is though I'm thinking that maybe a centered scoop wouldn't be as beneficial as an offset scoop (toward the PS over the exhaust). Not sure how that would look though :confused:

IMO a combination of getting more air in while being able to provide a path to extract hot air out would give you the most benefit. I watched my intake air temp on the way up to Steamboat on Friday and typically, even on the highway, the IA temp was a good 50F+ hotter than ambient air temps. Often it was much higher even when running on the highway :(. Say for instance the WT (water temp) was running 198F, I would see IA temps in the 150F range, running at 60+ mph, with an ambient air temp probably in the high 70s to low 80s. The only time I would see a significant drop is coming down hills with the engine basically coasting.

On the MUD thread I sort of half joked about ceramic coating the air filter canister (I think Spike called that akin to killing a roach with a grenade :D) since ceramic coating headers seems fairly popular. Landtank spoke on the trial he did with a winter coat wrapped around the air filter canister. Got me to thinking that maybe a simple approach would be to use some heat wrap like this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Automotive-Heat-Sound-Insulation-Auto-Car-Boat-RV_W0QQitemZ330166999359QQihZ014QQcategoryZ46094QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Not sure what you'd use to "attach" it, but it should IMO reduce some of the exhaust heat affect on the IA temps.

Other thoughts would be to do some sort of bumper "ducts" to allow more cool air in. And of course there are those on MUD that have modified the hood to space it up in the rear which per them helps to reduce temps under the hood as well. Personally, I don't think Toyota put much thought into venting the hot air out of the engine bay as this is the first vehicle I have owned where when I switch to fresh outside on the HVAC controls I tend to get pretty warm/hot air blowing in my face, even on relatively cool days.

Sorry for the long winded answer :hill:. I know you stated you weren't looking to lower you IA temps as the snorkle is doing that but in my brain under hood temps and IA temps seem to sort of go hand in hand. If you can lower your under hood temps then the IA temp should also drop.

Romer
10-28-2007, 06:53 PM
I finally got around to doing the Yarn test. The video is in two phases. In the first part, the Yarn is about 5" long. Got concerned the Yarn itself might be too heavy so I cut it in half to 2.5". The yarn on the far right isn't moving much because it is stuck to the tape. The hood scoop (If I go with it) would go like shown in the below picture. Another alternative is to put it on back wards facing the windshield to pull hot air out.

Here is the link to the video with the string tests. I went higher res so you could see the yarn

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/Romer/Yarn.wmv

Seems like the flow is pretty good infront of the windshield washer dimples.

Thoughts?

The goal is not to reduce intake temp, but reduce under hood temps.

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/attachment.php?attachmentid=6169&stc=1&d=1189822807

BogusBlake
10-28-2007, 08:43 PM
Cool test!

I like that your camerawoman is calling out "70, 75, 80" as you're passing 55mph signs!:lmao:

acon40
10-28-2007, 09:00 PM
let me know when you get your hood cut. I want to do mine the same day. I have just been sitting back waiting for the final word...

Red_Chili
10-29-2007, 08:20 AM
Cool test!

I like that your camerawoman is calling out "70, 75, 80" as you're passing 55mph signs!:lmao:
Yeah... and you are still getting passed! :lmao:

Uncle Ben
10-29-2007, 08:33 AM
let me know when you get your hood cut. I want to do mine the same day. I have just been sitting back waiting for the final word...


So basically Romo's 80 is getting it's Brit Milah! Interesting..... :rolleyes: :lmao:

Romer
10-29-2007, 09:17 AM
:rolleyes:

Anyone have any technical input?

treerootCO
10-29-2007, 09:19 AM
I'll do it if you do it. UB is too chicken to cut up his hood. :D

nakman
10-29-2007, 10:04 AM
:rolleyes:

Anyone have any technical input?

:lmao: :D :lmao: :D :lmao:

treerootCO
10-29-2007, 10:08 AM
Technical...

Front cover of the ARB catalog has the scoop you have on that rig

Red_Chili
10-29-2007, 10:14 AM
Technical...
Have jigsaw, check.
have masking tape, check.
have reckless abandon... check.

Bring it on over... :brick:

On second thought...

sleeoffroad
10-29-2007, 11:25 AM
Thoughts?

Yup, if you had a turbo it would not take so long to get to 80 mph. :D

Romer
10-29-2007, 11:42 AM
Yup, if you had a turbo it would not take so long to get to 80 mph. :D

The wife was driving and wasn't even using the SC:D

corsair23
10-29-2007, 12:51 PM
Fun test to watch :thumb: - Now, if you could only find a wind tunnel with a smoke system to test in :hill:

Looks like the airflow is smoother the further toward the front of the hood you go and pretty good where you have the scoop sitting. At least the yarn isn't blowing forward or up (low pressure) as it appears to be toward the rear PS of the hood (might just be because is was stuck to the tape?).

I'm still wondering though, the scoop will hopefully get some cooler air into the bay but will simply mixing hot with cooler air be enough to get the desired results? Or will you also have to figure out a way to also exhaust some of the hot/mixed air out? I'm not found of the look but have you given thought to or tried raising the rear of the hood with spacers like some on MUD have done? That would be reversible if it doesn't work :)

On the scoop, if you mount it forward can you in turn mount it backward after the fact using the same holes - I assume it is held down with bolts/screws?. If not, then maybe you could cut the hole and tape the scoop in place before final attachment and try it both in a forward and rearward facing configurations to see what nets the best results.

treerootCO
10-29-2007, 01:26 PM
If you do it then Jim's plate suggestion will fit! :Princess:

geighty? Only 40th anniversary sage can be considered ghey :p:. (not that there is anything wrong with that)

Uncle Ben
10-29-2007, 01:31 PM
Sorry Romer....I took my foot prints from your thread over to Mikes thread out of respect for you sir! I am sorry!!!

Romer
10-29-2007, 02:18 PM
No problem, curious what your opinion is on the results of my yarn test though :D

Uncle Ben
10-29-2007, 03:23 PM
No problem, curious what your opinion is on the results of my yarn test though :D

It will be interesting on what your results will be after you cut it! Personally, I don't expect results that would outweigh the hole in the hood! I hope I'm wrong! Air circulation needs to increase which means hot air needs to leave before cool air can enter....I haven't yet see hot air go down without being drawn out. How will you control snow and water?

subzali
10-29-2007, 04:42 PM
I haven't had any input yet, but I'll throw in :twocents:. I would first wonder with Jeff if you can mount the hood in both directions, for testing sake.

In my humble opinion, having the scoop backwards would help draw hot air out. Hot air rises and would tend to accumulate at the top, so if the scoop faced forward it would force the air back down, and yes it might mix and cool a little bit, but there would still be a lot of hot air under the hood. Having it backwards would draw hot air out, and the wash of the fan would only aid in serving as an extra motive to push the air through. Bernoulli's Principle states that the higher velocity of a fluid over a surface, the lower the pressure is going to be. To me the motion of the streamers being straight back and not fluttering (technical term ;) ) is exactly what I try to find on my sailboat, when the flow is laminar that's when you get maximum drive off the sail. I would think in this case it would be similar - the laminar flow of air across the hood creates a low pressure zone that would naturally draw air out of the engine bay if the hood were facing backward. Then arguably cooler air would be allowed in through the radiator, under the truck, etc. That's a little less than :twocents: worth, so take it for that.

Do other 80 series owners not have this problem? Are you the first one to cut your hood? If you don't get the results you want, what's a hood swap among friends? :D I'm sure some would want it if only for looks :D

wesintl
10-29-2007, 04:49 PM
simple.. one facing forward drawing air in.. the other facing back drawing air out. Personally i'd pull the hood and run it michigan style :hill:

subzali
10-30-2007, 07:12 AM
Make a custom mesh hood! :D