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treerootCO
09-22-2007, 02:55 AM
What do you do when you stop sleeping? Something has fouled up my brain and I don't get tired anymore. I tried trying to physically exhaust myself but that didn't work. Mentally, I am having an extremely tough time at work but I like the thought process and enjoy the stress for some odd reason. Is that normal? I watched a few movies and read for awhile but I can't sleep. I tried to resolve my issues in my head but that didn't work. Meditation is calming but I stayed up all last night and waited for the alarm clock to ring. I do not want to turn to drugs or alcohol. That seems like a bad idea. I tried counting sheep because I knew someone would suggest that. I even tried listening to brain wave music.

art hog
09-22-2007, 03:30 AM
What do you do when you stop sleeping? Something has fouled up my brain and I don't get tired anymore. I tried trying to physically exhaust myself but that didn't work. Mentally, I am having an extremely tough time at work but I like the thought process and enjoy the stress for some odd reason. Is that normal? I watched a few movies and read for awhile but I can't sleep. I tried to resolve my issues in my head but that didn't work. Meditation is calming but I stayed up all last night and waited for the alarm clock to ring. I do not want to turn to drugs or alcohol. That seems like a bad idea. I tried counting sheep because I knew someone would suggest that. I even tried listening to brain wave music.

Im still up:eek:. Im printing and will do an all nighter so I can deliver at 6:30 this morning. will the city let you have sheep? If worse comes to worse you can git the 50 cal. out and take care of the sheep.

ginericLC
09-22-2007, 08:21 AM
Tree,

When you figure it out let me know. I slept from 11-2. that is the most sleep I've had in a month. My job has become more stressful this year with more kids and more classes. I don't even have time to pee at work anymore. And my Cruiser selling/buying situation has caused me even more stress. I'm getting circles under my eyes. I've tried working myself to death physically and it doesn't work. I even went to the DR. and tried some sleep meds. Nothing!

Uncle Ben
09-22-2007, 09:10 AM
I slept last night from 2am till 7....night before maybe got in an hour. My problem is I have so much to do that if I wake up my mind engages and I have to get up and do something and check it off the list and I can usually go back to sleep. I hate it but it seems like the rule when I'm stressed. Good luck Root figuring it out! It saddens me to see other friends have the same curse! :(

Chris
09-22-2007, 09:18 AM
What do you do when you stop sleeping?

You need to talk to a post-menopausal woman, not a group on the forum but it's common among them. I know, I live with one. :eek:

Stay away from prescription "sleep aids" which I suspect you'd do anyway knowing how you feel about that whole area.

The key seems to be to not try, the harder you try the more you focus on it, the worse it gets. As odd as it may seem the old warm milk at bedtime is pretty effective, triggers the natural sleep mechanism (tryptophane). Same thing in turkey that puts everyone to sleep on Thanksgiving.

So I suggest a turkey sandwich, glass or warm milk, petting kitty and a good book unrelated to work or cruisers, etc. Have the night time meal, pet kitty, read the book and nod off.

nuclearlemon
09-22-2007, 11:38 AM
find a routine and stick to it. for me it's finding something on tv that i really want to watch. that puts me out in a heartbeat. i have to want to see it though, otherwise, i'm up for hours.

MDH33
09-22-2007, 12:13 PM
Any time I'm stressed from work I have trouble sleeping. One thing that I have started doing is to get up early, about 4:30 or 5, and run. I can usually get 5-10 miles in before work. It's a great stress reliever that I look forward to and it zaps me just enough that lately I can easily crash hard at 10pm and sleep. Only thing that has worked for me besides a nice looong vacation with no worries about work. :)

Corbet
09-22-2007, 04:47 PM
Sounds like most need to reduce their stress loads. Definitely goes hand and hand with Insomnia.

Also consider a new mattress purchase. If you are not comfortable while asleep it can effect the quality of your sleep. I'm in the middle of such a battle with the wife right now. When I moved in we replaced her mattress with mine. I hated hers. Now that mine has aged a bit, and the support has broken down to a point that does not comply with her back. Her sleep then suffered. Now we are back on her mattress. As a result my sleep suffers. Add some stress to my life and I'll wake up after 8 hours thinking I never fell asleep. I'd go get a new one myself but I need to wait until the new house is finished.

timmbuck2
09-22-2007, 06:55 PM
I used to be the same way...then found melatonin. NOT a drug, but a replacement for the natural melatonin you have in your brain that makes you sleepy. We lose it as we get older, why many older people don't sleep much. Do some research...best thing I ever discovered...changed my life...

treerootCO
09-22-2007, 09:28 PM
I have tried warm milk. Stress may be a huge factor because I can't figure out where I went wrong. I thought doing nice things for others was the best thing to do and I lost myself along the way. The material things that used to make me happy no longer matter. I tried to offer security with a 401k, savings, a house, no debt, good paying job, and even life insurance but none of that really does me any good. When I was forced to work nights last year it really screwed up my sleep patterns so that is a major factor. Over the past few months I have been as active as I could because I figured my health wasn't helping me any. I finally broke the 200 mark, down from 236lbs. My thoughts are sharper and clearer but they still run away at times.

treerootCO
09-23-2007, 01:31 AM
Ghandi was a fan of melatonin:D He drank his pee for that reason. I bought two new mattresses, one for the guest room and one for me. I might replace mine just to see if it helps but I wanted to upgrade to a King and that won't fit in my room. A queen goes from wall to wall as it is.

Chris
09-23-2007, 10:38 AM
Some research suggests that for men, job-related stress may also play an important role in male depression. Some job characteristics that may be associated with male depression include:

* Lack of control over your responsibilities
* Unreasonable demands for performance
* Conflicts with supervisors or co-workers
* Lack of job security
* Night-shift work
* Excessive overtime
* More time than you'd like spent away from home
* Wages that don't reflect the level of responsibility

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/male-depression/MC00041

timmbuck2
09-23-2007, 10:52 AM
OK, I would probably draw the line at drinking my pee. :) I discovered melatonin when I was a traveling consultant and worked all kinds of strange hours, living in hotels, traveling all over the place. It works awesome to get your internal clock back on time...they suggest it for traveling overseas to help combat jet lag. It helped my wife when we went to Europe...

Rezarf
09-23-2007, 11:44 AM
Mike-

Your body isn't opperating as it should, it seems to be opperating as it NEEDS to right now. You might seek some professional advice and opinions on your sleep. My guess is that this is just symtom of something greater.

Sorry man, life can get miserable without sleep. However, I have had a few friends over the years that really only need a few hours each night to make it through the day. Not me!:D Maybe you are wired up more like that? Have you always not needed that much sleep, or is this a "new" thing?

treerootCO
09-23-2007, 01:19 PM
I have lost faith in Western medicine. I went through hell leading up to my surgery and the doctor told me numerous time I was young, don't worry about it. They prescribed me a mixture of drugs that were not compatible and I had some serious reactions to it. All they had to do is look in my file and see what they had already prescribed and it could have been avoided. My uncle who has been a pharmacist for 20+ years told me the other day he has absolutely no faith in medicine. I need to refinance my house before December so I guess that makes me sad. I never intended to live here this long and I can't bring myself to move when I am happy with what I have. I do not want to overextend myself with a massive house payment. I am working to remodel the kitchen and it is very depressing knowing I plan on moving against my will. I am saddened by the fact that I have a very good job and can't afford to live in this state. I am greatful for the job I have but can't understand how someone working for 5 bucks an hour can even afford food. It doesn't make sense. Is everyone on the roads just living in debt they plan to leave to their kids?

subzali
09-23-2007, 01:28 PM
Sometimes I can't get to sleep, like UB, because I have a list of things to do and feel the need to get it done. I then tried closing my eyes with the lights out, laying in my bed, and find a dark spot (yeah what you see is black, but there is usually a spot that appears darker than others) and focus on that dark spot. Brush away any thoughts of anything else, and as you focus on the dark spot it will grow and grow. The hard part is calming your mind to the point where you don't even really see the growing dark spot as the goal, but if I can do that then I'm unconscious before I even know what happened, before the dark spot grew to fill my whole "vision". It's pretty cool when it works, but I think it's really an exercise in calming your mind.

bh4rnnr
09-23-2007, 06:10 PM
Mike, life throws a lot of sh!t at you. Sometimes you wonder why your doing it. But in the end, you just have to. Things work for a reason, weather you like it or not. I find that they are looking at the bigger picture for you and this is what you have to do to get there.

"You can sh!t in one hand and wish in the other" as my Dad always told me. It's true, until you take control of your life, this is what's going to happen.

So get out there and do it, dont look back. Jump ship and see what happens:beer::beer:

gcmandrake
09-23-2007, 08:56 PM
Mike,

This sounds so very familiar. Have you had your thyroid checked (TSH)? Problems with your thyroid can cause this type of problem, among other things. If you are interested in talking about this PM me.

the Other Matt

Red_Chili
09-24-2007, 08:15 AM
Along those lines all kinds of unwanted side effects, such as depression and compulsive thoughts, can result from medication. I used to be a licensed professional counselor, and I had a client who was anxious and depressed and her life was good, she couldn't figure out why. I did a thorough history of medications and found out she had recently started some antiallergy meds that helped her allergies - and I sent her back to her doc with a symptom description.

One session and her depression was cured. Too bad it was a comp initial session! :lmao:

Don't lose faith in western medicine, eastern medicine can be a source of left handed knowledge for sure, but incompetence is cross-cultural. The overall stats for western medicine still beats the pants off of eastern medicine. Just be educated. And BE SURE TO COMMUNICATE ANY SYMPTOMS TO YOUR DOC.

All that said, you might look into serotonin depletion - a.k.a. depression/compulsive thinking, idealism/major disappointment cycles, that sort of thing. Just sayin'. And I don't even play a psychiatrist on TV, in case you wondered. Some people respond immediately to modern depression meds, some people take some tweaking of them to nail it, but most get significantly better. And it is NOT a moral failure or weakness any more than diabetes is. PM me if you want.

Chris
09-24-2007, 10:31 AM
I have lost faith in Western medicine.

Easy to do w/ the experience you had with your back. If you generalize a bad experience in one area of your life to your whole life you'll be a very unhappy person. Don't expect docs to be anything more than they are, people like you and me with varying degrees of competence.

You know what they call the person who graduates at the bottom of his/her class in med school? Doctor.

Find a good one, lots of references available here and be honest and complete with them so they can be the same to you.

And it is NOT a moral failure or weakness any more than diabetes is.

Many people still harbor the thought that it is a personal failure for one reason or another. I'm not among them and have no qualms telling anyone that I take an anti-depressant every morning as do most of my family. Do I still need it? I have no idea but I'll be damned if I'll go back to the dark place to find out.

I take Cymbalta which acts on two naturally occurring chemicals in the body; serotonin (mood) and norepinephrine (pain) because I have chronic back pain which, in itself, can cause depression. My depression started when everything in my life was perfect; my son finished college, my daughter got married and my wife & I were preparing to retire young. Why? Beats the hell out of me but since I had dealt with a child with major depression as well as a couple of my brothers I knew I couldn't "shake it off" or "get over it" w/o help.

Life is good Mike, accept what's going on and find a good doctor you can trust. It may not restore your faith in the medical profession but it sure as hell can restore your faith in yourself.

isotel
09-24-2007, 11:17 AM
when i get real busy and my mind wont turn off and calm down to go to sleep, some times smoking some pot can take my mind off stuff and let me fall asleep.. Just a thought :p:

treerootCO
09-24-2007, 01:26 PM
not my style, sorry.

SteveH
09-24-2007, 02:46 PM
Mike,

Since some of your dismay seems to be financial...

>> I am saddened by the fact that I have a very good job and can't afford
>>to live in this state.

Have you worked up a budget to see what you can whack? Many people have $250/mo in Internet, Cable, Dish, Cell phone, etc. payments. A TracFone costs $7/month (yearly rate divided by 12) and the phones are free at their website. Take a hard look at your LVs and figure out which ones you practically can restore or wheel, and peddle the rest. I have a TV antenna on my roof and no flat panel TVs. I have $30/mo slow DSL (and I only begrudgingly upgraded from dial-up). Pack a lunch - save $1000+/year in after-tax income. There is no ideal budget for everyone, but many things aren't as necessary as they might seem under more analysis. I'd dump all my 'cruisers (including the FJ40 I've had for 17 years) in a heartbeat if my children needed medical care that required that of me. I used to find more 'fun' in my FJs, but the best things in life don't come on 4 wheels.

You might consider volunteering, or getting involved with a church. I find myself much more grateful for my situation when I see how some nice cheery people I know are slugging away with health problems and financial problems that make mine pale in comparison. Seeing others being strong in these circumstances makes me realize the relative weakness of my faith and compassion - and this spurs me to try harder to be more giving and forgiving and thankful. Find a small group you can confide in (beyond the Rising Sun bunch) and get involved.

Don't fail to take pride in your remodelling job - you're doing it right, and there's always satisfaction in doing any job right. Hang in there!

Steve

wesintl
09-25-2007, 12:18 PM
I'll refrain from alot of what I think you should do and offer you this. IMHO the stress is job related and from dealing with the house. I wouldn't band aid your sleep and other issues without fixing the stress caused by your job and the house no matter how much you think you like them. Not one or the other but both.

Good Luck.

Phone is usually available here, When you're in the ranch come over and either hang out or have some grub the wife cooked up.

Hulk
09-26-2007, 01:23 AM
I need to refinance my house before December so I guess that makes me sad. I never intended to live here this long and I can't bring myself to move when I am happy with what I have. I do not want to overextend myself with a massive house payment. I am working to remodel the kitchen and it is very depressing knowing I plan on moving against my will.

Mike, I know a little something about giving up something that you've worked long and hard at, and that you care for even if you have some mixed feelings about it. I just gave up my office (see this thread (http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=4868)). I was a mess this summer, especially in August.

The weird thing is that this is true: Sometimes to get something new and wonderful, you must give up something that you cherish.

Your house has been a labor of love, but I think it's also making you sick. My advice would be to sell it, and move on to the next chapter of your life. But if you really don't want to move, then stay, and make that decision. It's the ambivalence that kills you. Whichever decision you make, you should make the decision and move on. You'll be much happier that way.

Right now you're in limbo. I think that's got to be affecting everything you do, including your sleep. There's no happiness in limbo.

Jenny Cruiser
09-26-2007, 02:07 AM
I know a guy that sleeps about 3 hours a night if that. He's a smart mofo that reads 10 or more books a week, builds furniture such as an 800lb aluminum can couch, has a basement full of vintage motorcycles, a back yard full of vintage cars, a room packed from floor to ceiling with guitars and other stuff. He fills his houses and garages with stuff then buys another house to fill. He tutored a friend of mine for an entire semester in microbiology after studying his text book for one night. Cool guy. He's got MS though. :(

Have you sought professional psychiatric help? It may help. When I need to work something out I go to the racetrack or a favorite road and focus on hitting all my marks as consistantly as possible. Sketching helps keep my mind off things as well. :)

bskey
09-26-2007, 08:53 AM
good thread....it's oddly comforting to know that I'm not as alone at 3am as I feel sometimes.......

I have found that a good walk/run, then into the hot tub, into the shower and into bed is a really good way to clear my mind, but if I am really "in it" if you will, there is no clearing my mind, and I have tried 3 different sleeping medications, drinking (which I didn't like doing as a coping method) and some alternative methods, and for me, only Ambien knocked me out, but I was getting up and cooking unconciously at night, which was NOT good! One night I made rice crispy treats, a breakfast burrito and a steak. rough morning.

Anywho, the only way I have found to really treat this is to prioritize the things on my mind, and be working on them.

There's a lot of other good advice on this threat though that I will look into also...

Sweet dreams!

Red_Chili
09-26-2007, 08:58 AM
Symptoms are a source of pain, of course - but they can be the voice of wisdom, often. If I might say so, even the voice of God.

But I shan't bother y'all with that! :D

Hulk
09-27-2007, 09:45 PM
I guarantee this will put you to sleep. Here's the directions on how to listen to the recorded TLCA Board of Directors conference call. The webmaster report is especially sleep inducing.

Thank you for choosing Reservationless-Plus conferencing from InterCall. Your recent conference has been recorded and archived and is now available for playback. Your conference details are listed below:

Conference Date: 9/27/2007
Conference Time: 8:52 PM EST
Playback ID: 071774270
Conference Topic:
Leader: Alan Loshbaugh
Archived through: 10/26/2007

To listen to your conference playback via the Internet or over the phone, refer to the following instructions:

Playback via the Internet
1. To access the conference specified above, click on the link below or paste the entire URL into your browser: http://www2.eintercall.com/moderator/presentation/Playback?id=5128771c-a699-42be-976b-3b289e9a6c56.rpm
2. At the prompt, enter your name and email address
3. Click "Submit". The playback will begin.

Playback by Phone
1. To access the conference specified above, dial the phone number shown below according to your locale.
US/Canada - 888-899-7904
International/Local - 706-679-5560
2. At the prompt, enter the Playback ID shown above followed by the pound sign (#).
3. The playback will begin.

The following keypad commands are available during the conference playback:
3 Fast forward 30 seconds
7 Rewind 30 seconds
# Pause/Resume playback
* Exit playback

treerootCO
09-29-2007, 01:49 PM
acronym of the day: Seasonal affective disorder

We all feel it. As the summer wanes, we tend to reflect on all the past events that have guided us through the years. Something primal tells us winter is coming and invokes a sense of urgency to resolve our unfinished dealings. Maybe it is just the days getting shorter that seem to amplify this feeling but we cannot escape it.

Chris
09-29-2007, 03:18 PM
Seasonal affective disorder is primarily caused by decreased exposure to the sun. Staying inside along with the shortening days plays a big part. When I lived in MN where the sun disappears in late Winter it would affect me profoundly. An indoor light that creates the same light as the sun helps tremendously. Tanning booths do the same if you're into that sort of thing.

:cheers: