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AxleIke
12-08-2007, 11:45 PM
Talking to a guy today, just shootin the breeze, and slider design came up.

Sliders will be my next fab project, probably sometime late next spring.

He brought up an interesting idea, one that I hadn't thought of, and still can't wrap my head around.

The theory is to put the slider essentially ON the pinch weld, NOT to put it below and hope the gussets keep it from flexing up. The idea would be, a piece of slit fuel line is placed over the edge of the pinchweld, and the slider is welded such that it is pressed up against it.

The reasoning is that, if the slider can't move, it can't generate a localized force to bend the weld, but rather would transfer the force of the rock hit along the weld, spreading it out, and essentially transfering the shock to the body mounts.

Does this seem like it would work as well as it is theorized to?

Some reading, but Here (http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/RockSliderZ.shtml) is a bit of the same idea, though his don't actually touch the weld full time, only under load.

:confused:

AxleIke
12-09-2007, 09:36 AM
I was thinking along the same lines.

However, the guy I was talking to said he had no noise or vibration because the fit was so tight, even on wash board roads.

As for cruisers, I imagine this would apply to 60's on up, just not 40's.

Rezarf
12-09-2007, 10:57 AM
Kinda wierd to think about. The point of a slider is to eliminate as much body contact/damage as possible, but this could work.. but it seems a contridiction.

you could just build beefy sliders that won't flex :D Your 4Runner is so light, you could do it without much issue.

I am interested to hear what others think.

Drew

Red_Chili
12-09-2007, 05:23 PM
I run Roger Brown's sliders. I mounted them 3/8" below the pinch weld, and they sometimes flex (or rather, the frame they are welded to sometimes flexes) enough to contact the pinch weld. It is more than theory, it works very very well. It held up in a 3/4 roll that hit hard enough to bend the outer rail of the slider.

Roger's design puts square tube the length of the sliders beneath the pinch weld. This spreads the load. It would work equally well with round tube. Heavy wall square tube on the outboard rail of the slider has many advantages; the corners are rounder, and the walls are thicker (they will NOT dent), and they are easier to use as steps.

This is a universal, not just applicable to minitrucks. I wouldn't put the slider touching the pinch weld even if cushioned by split tube. Not necessary.

SROR/AKA 2BAD
12-09-2007, 08:11 PM
don't think to hard about it. :rolleyes:
what happens when the vibes from the rig wear through the rubber or whatever you put on the p/w
then! if you don't seal up the rubber line your gonna get water and crap in it.
hmmm, good place for rust to start.

keep them off the weld and you'll be fine.
let them flex.

AxleIke
12-10-2007, 12:19 AM
Hmmm. Good points. The truck I saw had no worry about rust. I would be suprised if you could find a single NON rusted part on the truck (from ohio).

Aparantly, there is no vibration from them. Essentially, on install, he said that he did the split tube thing, then lined up the slider and jacked the slider up until the truck began to move upward. Then welded them on.

I agree, I'm not sure how that would be with rust and the like, but it sounds like putting them closer to the weld is better. Just not touching.

To be clear, we would still gusset the tubes at the frame? Or not, so there is more flex?

Red_Chili
12-10-2007, 10:27 AM
Just run two stout square tubes off of scab plates welded to the frame. A small triangle brace from the tube to its scab plate, top of the tube, is a good idea. Run a single tube fore-n-aft beneath the pinch weld, say, 3/8" below, then weld on whatever outer slider tube strikes your fancy.

wesintl
12-10-2007, 10:30 AM
Many 55's run the sliders that are welded into the rocker. The body mounts hold up fine. At least from what I've seen. I've seen that the rockware's looks like they are touching on all the rovers I see. IMHO I think it's fine it's a personal preference and to what you believe is best.

Red_Chili
12-10-2007, 11:36 AM
Round would be no harder than square, except for the notching. Pain.

They start at $245/pr with $85 shipping:
http://4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/RockSliderZ.shtml

I like the 'Ultimate' sliders, they use thicker walled tubing. I have noticed other brands with dents, mine won't. Coat them with POR-15 and your favorite top coat. Hammerite sprays or brushes on with foam brushes to produce the same finish. I welded mine on, easier than Roger's bolt-on method. YMMV.

Red_Chili
12-10-2007, 12:31 PM
Roger's sliders have kickouts. 1" or 2", your choice. Rear only or front and rear, I did the 2" front and rear and do not regret it (now with wider wheels and stance, it is not merely nice but needed). They nicely tuck up for additional clearance, and the door opens just above the top of the outer rail. Nice.

You don't need three plus tubes going to the frame, BTW. That top one looks like overkill in the extreme.


Ah, I see. Tundra. :lmao:

Cheese
12-10-2007, 12:48 PM
Isaac, my old school Rockstomper ones actually bolt there.

Some complained that because it connected the body to the frame essentially negating the bodymounts, it was a bad plan. The ride got rough for Schaefer, that is how I first met him.

It can't move because it is attached. Has worked well for almost 75k miles and some decent abuse.

AxleIke
12-10-2007, 02:33 PM
Hmm. Well, lots to think about.

J Kimmel
12-17-2007, 12:46 PM
I used marlins on my truck, only because they were 135 shipped. So far so good but I view them as replaceable. I cut 3x3 pieces of 1/4"flat stock and put them on the frame then welded sliders to that. 3 pairs and no issues yet.

My last pair I used 2x4 .250 square tube with 1 3/4 .120 legs and they were great too. I think I spent 60bucks for the steel, give or take a bit.

As far as the seam...My first pair they were mounted just below the seam and there were a couple spots were they bumped the seam, and bent the seam. My last two pairs, I pounded the seam flat and used a jack to put the sliders on the bottom of the body then cut and installed runners to the frame.

There are plenty of good guys here who can weld, they aren't that tough to make and stick on :) Maybe you could learn how.

Uncle Ben
12-17-2007, 01:54 PM
That's what eats me up. I actually was taught how to weld at a previous job, many, many years ago. Worked at an applied technology lab for an industrial gas company. I was mainly involved with the food freezing and heat treating sections, but the welding gases guys always needed help. Besides, they got tired of me asking them to do our stainless fab, so I taught myself how to work the machine tools and welders. I got pretty decent with the Bridgeport and we had a couple of beasts, a Miller 350A AC/DC TIG and a Hobart Mega Arc 400A MIG. So they taught me what I needed to know about TIG and MIG. We sold regular argon, CO2 and CO2/argon, but MG industries also sold this argon specialty mix for robotic welding, we called it Argomix. If you see Monon trailers, all welded with our shielding gases. But it's been 13 years since I've been around a welder, so I'm very out of touch and I'm sure my welds would be terrible. But I look at these and I know what I want, then think >$400? They have to be easy to make...


Like riding a bike man! :thumb: ;)

J Kimmel
12-17-2007, 01:57 PM
Like riding a bike man! :thumb: ;)

yup...play with one for ten minutes and I bet you are right back. If you know the basics thats all you really need.

Volcom
12-17-2007, 02:12 PM
I notched my pinch seam where the legs of the sliders attach to the frame so I could mount them as close to the body as possible. I maybe left 1/4 between the slider and the seam. I also angled up my Marlin sliders 1/2 from the door. I wanted them to fit tight. I'm with J Kimmel, they are a replaceable item if they get trashed after several years of wheeling. I personally wouldn't spend $400 on sliders, that's crazy.

To answer the orginal question, I don't see why you couldn't notch the tube and fit the pinch seam inside of the tube. But, you might lose some body protection having them that close to the body. Some of the rocks have sharp points on them and might snag the body right above the tube/pinch seam.

J Kimmel
12-17-2007, 02:39 PM
I would think you'd lose more slider integrity by notching them than gaining body strength. You'd be better off notching the seam and putting the slider tight to the body.

J Kimmel
12-17-2007, 03:27 PM
come by and look at mine. If you like it I'll help you build a set, they aren't difficult. If you don't like what I have done on mine, you can spend the cash or find someone else. No need to spend 400 bucks on sliders :)

J Kimmel
12-17-2007, 03:58 PM
four lengths? Probably want some longer lengths also if you want bent kickouts. I drink what I'm given.

Jacket
12-17-2007, 05:05 PM
I'm with J Kimmel, they are a replaceable item if they get trashed after several years of wheeling. I personally wouldn't spend $400 on sliders, that's crazy.

Crazy for someone with welding equipment, welding skills and a (optionally) tube bender. But believe or not, there's still many of us out there that have to pay for such skills, and pay a company willing to go through all the business aspects of producing an item to sell en masse.

Or have a colleague like J Kimmel willing to help and supply the equipment

DaveInDenver
12-17-2007, 06:14 PM
four lengths? Probably want some longer lengths also if you want bent kickouts. I drink what I'm given.
Here's some photos of what I'm thinking. Basically just trying to mimic sorta what Red Chili 2.5 has going. Kick out is less important on a slider with a flat outer bar, since it will act like a good step anyway.

J Kimmel
12-17-2007, 06:16 PM
send me a PM and we can figure it out. I have no problem helping, its fun. you can do whatever sort of tube you want.

lilred4runner
08-17-2010, 02:55 PM
Interested on the design of sliders you ended up with, it's on my to do list and it's something I can do and not spend much cash.

If you were to change something in your design what would it be?

AxleIke
08-17-2010, 08:55 PM
I have a whole build thread HERE (http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=10250) for the full build up, but here is a good shot of them:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c263/AxleIke/IMG_3980.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c263/AxleIke/IMG_3986.jpg

Uncle Ben
08-17-2010, 08:59 PM
I have a whole build thread HERE (http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=10250) for the full build up, but here is a good shot of them:



Schaaaaweeeet!:thumb::thumb:

AimCOTaco
08-18-2010, 09:25 AM
Hell on body mounts.
I would expect to pull the cab for repairs after a few years of running like this.

If you start twisting the cab/body like you twist a frame it will fail in time. That's one reason for compliant mounting in the first place.

Just my thoughts, no first hand experience.
Andy,

AimCOTaco
08-18-2010, 09:28 AM
Sorry to be an idiot...I only read the first page of posts...