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subzali
12-14-2007, 01:12 PM
Anyone have one of these fancy SSTs?

I figure since I only got 2 years out of my front axle oil seals, which is like 10-15K miles (maybe), I should consider making sure I'm all centered up.

Uncle Ben
12-14-2007, 01:14 PM
SST # 25.5

http://www.specialtysupplies.com/images/pms_complete_tn.jpg

wesintl
12-14-2007, 01:31 PM
I do think as a club we ought to buy one for member use...

subzali
12-14-2007, 01:35 PM
UB - that's not an official enough number :p:

Corbet
12-14-2007, 01:41 PM
SST # 25



Shouldn't that be a metric model. :D

Uncle Ben
12-14-2007, 01:45 PM
Shouldn't that be a metric model. :D

Sorry....fixed it!

isotel
12-14-2007, 02:03 PM
Id just go with marlins Seals, (once they are back on stock)

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=32224.0

subzali
12-14-2007, 02:26 PM
yep doing Marlin's seals :thumb:

Red_Chili
12-14-2007, 02:32 PM
Marlin's seals may do you the service of holding the axle firmly enough, that you can tell if your knuckle is too high or low as well. After assembly, unfortunately... but you can put it together through the spindle install, check the axle center on spindle, and then tear it down and pack everything. Not TOO bad to do...

[Edit, as I thought about this, it would be hard to do with birfs. I was thinking of my rear axle which uses front axle parts. You COULD just install the axle shafts, no birfs, then place the knuckle, no spindle, and measure to make sure the axle was centered... that would work rather well I think. IF you have a good vernier caliper to measure with.]

Do you have grooves on your axle shafts?

nakman
12-14-2007, 04:22 PM
Matt how much during that two years was your axle even spinning? If your seals are shot, then I agree your shims must be way off.. and Marlin's seals would only delay the inevitable.

subzali
12-15-2007, 08:04 PM
Right that's exactly it. Let's see...I did a few snow runs, Moab, TBP, Ouray, Slaughterhouse, Chinamans, and a few miles of on-road in the snow during winter - but exactly. I would like to not only delay the inevitable, I would like to get it right. If nobody has it I might have to have a chat with our friendly parts manager CDan and see what I can do. And then I'll spread the love :D

subzali
12-25-2007, 11:47 AM
bump

PabloCruise
12-25-2007, 12:29 PM
I'll share the pain and spread the love as well...

I want to build the Piggy front end w/ 60 knuckles - and do it right the first time.

subzali
12-27-2007, 01:02 PM
Got one on order - backordered until Jan. 28 though :(

Red_Chili
12-27-2007, 02:16 PM
The idea of the club having some expensive SSTs for the benefit of members has merit in my mind... another motivation for membership: benefits!

It could be 'deployed' at the WBPP, for instance...

corsair23
12-28-2007, 01:43 AM
The idea of the club having some expensive SSTs for the benefit of members has merit in my mind... another motivation for membership: benefits!

It could be 'deployed' at the WBPP, for instance...

Agreed...Seems to me that many of the SSTs you need/want are limited use items and not something everyone needs to have in their toolbox...I like the idea of having "club tools" that members can borrow :thumb:

IanB
01-08-2008, 08:36 AM
How much was it? I need one.

subzali
01-08-2008, 09:05 AM
$112. It's backordered until Jan. 28, if you want one call up OTC tools. TJ is borrowing one, it sounds like I'll get use of it, and maybe we can share it around. If I use it before mine arrives you can come borrow mine.

Red_Chili
01-08-2008, 09:55 AM
At the next meeting we should propose the club buying that SST. It is only needed when doing initial setup of axles with parts that were never 'married', once you get the bottom shim set up the top ones are changed for proper preload with new bearings. I have never done that with my axle though. Also if a guy/gal is having early seal failure it is a good thing to check. Few do it because of the cost so it would be a good thing for a club to have to share IMHO...

Uncle Ben
01-08-2008, 10:07 AM
At the next meeting we should propose the club buying that SST. It is only needed when doing initial setup of axles with parts that were never 'married', once you get the bottom shim set up the top ones are changed for proper preload with new bearings. I have never done that with my axle though. Also if a guy/gal is having early seal failure it is a good thing to check. Few do it because of the cost so it would be a good thing for a club to have to share IMHO...


The hardest part about lending tools is keeping track of who has them. Who would be in charge of the tool tracking and of course monitoring the condition of the club tools?

Hulk
01-08-2008, 11:07 AM
The hardest part about lending tools is keeping track of who has them. Who would be in charge of the tool tracking and of course monitoring the condition of the club tools?

I think this is a good use of club funds, but we would need a plan for this, as Uncle Ben states.

Years ago, I was in an outdoors club in Chicago: camping, backpacking, etc. We all bucked up and bought an expensive backpacking stove. The guy who kept it at his house eventually decided he no longer wanted to be a part of the club, but he kept the stove. He never returned calls, and the rest of us were S.O.L.

Red_Chili
01-08-2008, 11:10 AM
Inventory it as a part of the CM trailer kit?

subzali
01-08-2008, 11:18 AM
Good idea Bill, so can we get answers here (http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=5420)?

wesintl
01-08-2008, 12:11 PM
Inventory it as a part of the CM trailer kit?

The trailer is just a trailer with stuff in it. I dunno if there is even someone from delegated on the CM committee to keep track of what is in it.

IMHO. We would either start a new position - Quartermaster or give it to someone like the vice commander to as part of duties. It wouldn't be that hard to keep track or 3-5 nice sst's for the club. You would have to check it out and check it in.

corsair23
01-08-2008, 04:05 PM
IMHO. We would either start a new position - Quartermaster or give it to someone like the vice commander to as part of duties. It wouldn't be that hard to keep track or 3-5 nice sst's for the club. You would have to check it out and check it in.

I like Wes' idea

A new position or add the reposibility to an existing position. Matt brings up a good point in the "risk" so I would suggest a security deposit (cash or valid credit card) could be required along with a signed form (in case the CC needs to be charged for the tool) to check out a tool. Also maybe initiate a rule that you have to be a member for a certain amount of time before you have access to the tools?

Add in some time limits on how long a tool can be checked out and that should protect the club pretty well. Logistics on where the tools are kept and how members gain access to them should be easy to work out. Whomever is the "Tool Keeper" can bring what is needed to the next meeting OR the borrower can go to the "Tool Keeper" :hill:

I think we can make this work while protecting the club and add yet another great benefit of joining the club :thumb:

nakman
01-08-2008, 04:25 PM
I like where this is going. So say you have to be a RS member for at least a year? Then you can "check out" and return the tools at the meeting, and work your deposit with the toolkeeper.

How about one of those FF rear axle tools, anyone have one? I've done the job with, and done the job without, it's easier with.

subzali
01-08-2008, 04:42 PM
I don't know about the time thing - I've only been a member a few months and a tool is on its way that could be "donated" that I wouldn't even be able to use until this September or whatever. Besides there's not really a time requirement to become an officer - myself and Carlton I think are both examples of that. Maybe there just needs to be a little more selectivity when voting members in to make sure they're trustworthy with loaning tools out, and that's just part of membership privileges.

Hulk
01-08-2008, 04:54 PM
I think if you're a paid member, you get all the benefits of being a member immediately.

If you're someone who just hangs out on the forum and comes to trail runs, no special tools for you.

Red_Chili
01-08-2008, 04:56 PM
I like the idea of Quartermaster.
Tools can be available to paid members. Simple deal.

nakman
01-08-2008, 05:13 PM
Ok works for me. So can I borrow the full floater hub socket please? I need to do a rear axle service.. :)

Uncle Ben
01-08-2008, 05:24 PM
The trouble with to many rules is someone has to enforce them! I say members only and a checkout list in the trailer. Last one who checks out a tool is the one responsible for it's safe return and working condition. I don't see where being a member for over a year is any more of a member than someone who just forked over their first $50!

corsair23
01-08-2008, 05:59 PM
Ok...Throw out the time thing :)

I only mentioned it to convince the new treasurer that club tools were a good idea and offer some ways to mitigate risks. Radar offered a great point though in that he has been around the club a long time (way longer than I have) but is one of the newest members!

Kevin, the only problem I forsee about having a list in the trailer or keeping the tools in the trailer is that whomever has possession of the trailer automatically becomes the "Tool Keeper" and responsible for access. I assume the trailer is locked and we don't all have a key etc. If whomever has possession of the trailer is willing to become the "Tool Keeper" as well then we are golden :hill:

I agree also on having too many rules. Really we only need the rules for the 1 person in a 100 like Matt mentions that might leave the club and somehow feel they now own the tool :( - Maybe it is a risk worth taking just so we don't have to deal with the rules and enforcement...

New motto: Become a member or its "NO tools for you!!" :D (said in my best Soup Nazi voice)

Red_Chili
01-08-2008, 06:40 PM
We have a lot of intangible benefits to being a member (and they do mean something...)
Now we will have a very tangible benefit. +1. We could have several moderate cost, specialized tools that the club could vote on buying as the need emerges.

Just keep it simple.

Make Nathaniel the Quartermaster. Or Tool Nazi, your choice of titles. :lmao:

Hulk
01-09-2008, 12:25 AM
It would be best to have the quartermaster more centrally located. Treeroot is located in a central place, IMHO.

subzali
01-09-2008, 08:03 AM
Where is the trailer now? Ben Ashcraft's?

Rzeppa
01-09-2008, 09:46 AM
Also if a guy/gal is having early seal failure it is a good thing to check.Besides seal failure (quite common whether the knuckles are aligned properly or not), the brass bushing in the spindle will wear unevenly when the knuckles are too high/low. Easy to see when the spindle is off, one side has the grease channels and the other side doesn't.

There was an article in Toyota Trails some years ago about how to make your own knuckle SST - I have a scanned reprint somewhere I've been planning to put up on my web site.

corsair23
01-09-2008, 02:44 PM
Where is the trailer now? Ben Ashcraft's?

I believe so. At least it was the last I heard...

EWheeler
06-11-2008, 10:44 PM
I am going to bring this back as it is the most recent thread about the knuckle centering SST. Does anyone have one? I would like to borrow one if possible. Willing to pay shipping to and from and give a deposit + a little extra for the use. I am hoping to find someone in Colorado and if not, there are a few people on Mud that will loan them out on the terms stated above. Thanks,

Evan

4RunrFTW
06-23-2008, 10:05 AM
Hi Evan. I just ordered one this morning, they actually had them in stock. I'm running between Denver and Silt a fair amount these days, I could drop it off to you for a weekend if you need.

EWheeler
06-28-2008, 12:14 PM
Thanks for the offer Cale, but I have already borrowed one from another member.

RicardoJM
06-28-2008, 05:48 PM
Hi Evan. I just ordered one this morning, they actually had them in stock. I'm running between Denver and Silt a fair amount these days, I could drop it off to you for a weekend if you need.

If it is still available, I could use it to make sure the 60 series knuckles are centered on my 40 axle as I convert to disc brakes. I'm local to the south side of the metro area. I plan to put everything on next Saturday. Let me know.

Shark Bait
06-28-2008, 06:03 PM
Never seen one of those doo hickeys. Put me on the wait list. :D

subzali
06-28-2008, 11:35 PM
Ricardo, word on the street is that as long as everything is going well in Minturn this weekend I should be getting mine back this week sometime. But don't wait for me :p:

Shark Bait
12-27-2008, 11:56 AM
Is this tool available? I'm going to upgrade to large pattern knuckles this week.

Shark Bait
04-09-2009, 11:22 PM
OK. Finally getting around to this. :o The procedure in the FSM talks about "red lead"? Where the heck do you get that? :confused:

Uncle Ben
04-09-2009, 11:25 PM
OK. Finally getting around to this. :o The procedure in the FSM talks about "red lead"? Where the heck do you get that? :confused:

Chris, Have you simply just tried putting them on with the same lower shims you have now and the same thickness in top shims as you have now? When I set mine up they were perfect with my original spacing!

Shark Bait
04-09-2009, 11:30 PM
I swapped to large pattern knuckles. Hmmm. The old shims might still be there on the bottom. All I need to do is add upper shims as needed to set the pre-load. Might be easier that the detailed procedure in the FSM. :eek: I'd probably get the red lead all over the place. :lmao:

Uncle Ben
04-09-2009, 11:46 PM
I swapped to large pattern knuckles. Hmmm. The old shims might still be there on the bottom. All I need to do is add upper shims as needed to set the pre-load. Might be easier that the detailed procedure in the FSM. :eek: I'd probably get the red lead all over the place. :lmao:

I use the inner axle to measure to and bottom differences. just barely slide in into the side gear and it will stick out just enough to use your calipers to measure the distance between the axle and the upper bottom edge of the opening and then the lower. Of course you have to have the new seal in place too.

subzali
04-09-2009, 11:50 PM
Chris, when I did it I used gear marking compound which I think I got at On-Track Performance. It worked ok.

But like Kevin said, since you are limited to I think +/-.008" because of the shims that are available, being off by a couple thousands isn't going to kill you if you use a different method that may not be quite as accurate.

Shark Bait
04-09-2009, 11:51 PM
I use the inner axle to measure to and bottom differences. just barely slide in into the side gear and it will stick out just enough to use your calipers to measure the distance between the axle and the upper bottom edge of the opening and then the lower. Of course you have to have the new seal in place too.

I have some spare axles I could use to do this. I bought a nice 8" digital caliper at HF. Then I wouldn't have to separate my chromoly Longs. Although the short side combo is kind of stiff. :rolleyes:

Shark Bait
04-09-2009, 11:53 PM
Chris, when I did it I used gear marking compound which I think I got at On-Track Performance. It worked ok.

But like Kevin said, since you are limited to I think +/-.008" because of the shims that are available, being off by a couple thousands isn't going to kill you if you use a different method that may not be quite as accurate.

I'm just picturing having to get in there with a mechanical pencil, and not having much luck. :eek::D

Uncle Ben
04-10-2009, 12:23 AM
Chris, when I did it I used gear marking compound which I think I got at On-Track Performance. It worked ok.

But like Kevin said, since you are limited to I think +/-.008" because of the shims that are available, being off by a couple thousands isn't going to kill you if you use a different method that may not be quite as accurate.

The axle will move around more than that!

Shark Bait
04-10-2009, 12:27 AM
Already have the Marlin seals in place. I'll try starting with what I've got, which looks to be a fairly thick shim on the bottom of both knuckles. I'll keep you posted.

RicardoJM
04-10-2009, 07:46 AM
OK. Finally getting around to this. :o The procedure in the FSM talks about "red lead"? Where the heck do you get that? :confused:

I used a a thin layer of anti-seize. It made it very easy to see the scribe marks and cleans up easily as well. Of course this was after trying masking tape which did not work too well:o.

Shark Bait
07-20-2009, 02:09 PM
This tool is available again. I'm done with it. If anyone needs it, or Subzali want's it back, let me know. :D

rover67
07-20-2009, 04:08 PM
whoa! Almost perfect timing! Could I borrow it for say a month or so?? How's this supposed to work? payment in :beer:?

Shark Bait
07-20-2009, 05:10 PM
whoa! Almost perfect timing! Could I borrow it for say a month or so?? How's this supposed to work? payment in :beer:?

Just pass it on. I'm going to be in Loveland the next 2-3 days. Can we meet somewhere some evening?

rover67
07-20-2009, 05:47 PM
OK Great, I can meet you anywhere. where does your commute take you? 287? I-25? are you in Loveland solid for the next few days?

Mendocino
11-29-2009, 02:45 PM
I think I need this tool now. I have FJ60 knuckles on a 40 axle. I was just going to replace the inner axle seal with the Marlin seal but the DS knuckle (only one apart) has a small bind on rotation. This bind almost feels like a detent when the vehicle would be going straight. I can't imagine this is normal?:confused:.

BTW-I have the Birfield Eliminator kit.

Anyway, I have a knuckle rebuild kit from Marlin and would like to get this all done next Sunday if possible. If anyone want to help I'll buy beer and feed you.:D

nuclearlemon
11-29-2009, 04:13 PM
Anyway, I have a knuckle rebuild kit from Marlin and would like to get this all done next Sunday if possible. If anyone want to help I'll buy beer and feed you.:D

with the vehicle jacked up, take the tire and turn it all the way to one side and give it a push towards the other side (easier with tie rod disconnected). does it "catch/stop" in one position? if so, your trunnion bearings are toast. the roller bearings wear grooves in the races, mostly in the forward, mild turn and sharp turn positions, and mostly the top bearing.

Mendocino
11-29-2009, 05:11 PM
Ding ding ding!:thumb::thumb::thumb:: Ige, that's a winning diagnosis. I pulled the knuckle and the lower trunion race was cupped. I talked to Subzali and I will borrow his SST and put the DS together next Sunday.:cheers:

:risingsun

Mendocino
12-05-2009, 03:50 PM
Well I have the SST tool (thanks Subzali and Nakman), I sorted out the overall shim requirement for my 60 knuckles on my 40 axle, but I can't figure out the lower shim thickness because my Birfield Eliminator Kit (BEK) uses a different spindle with a needle bearing inserted on the inward side of the spindle to support the outer axle shaft. As a result I can't insert the SST scribing tool into the spindle (different ID). Therefore, no measurement. :(

Anyone have a 60 Spindle I can borrow for about an hour?:)

Mendocino
12-27-2009, 01:20 PM
So I have the driver side all buttoned up and start on the PS. I then realized that I have the:knuckle; rubber ring; split ring; felt; halves! (Argghh!!!!:mad:). i resign myself to continuing on and fixing it when I have the gooey mess (http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=11714) cleaned up. Last night I was using the SST and I came out with zero (0) upper and lower shim thickness. After further investigation the SST was not fully sealing in the knuckle and therefore offsetting the measurement about 5 mm. (Arghh!:mad:). Now I have to re-shim the DS!

On the bright side at least I caught this in the PS.:rolleyes:

I made the attached XLS to keep things straight in the future so I could remember what I did and why. The cells with blue text are the input variables.

wesintl
12-27-2009, 01:34 PM
if you forget the rubber ring, felt and split ring just cut the felt and rubber and put the split on the top. I've done this on my 80 where I didn't want to pull the knuckle and trunion bearings but did the rest of the knuckle rebuild and replaced the felt and wipers so they were new and fresh without pulling the knuckle off.

Mendocino
12-27-2009, 02:49 PM
Thanks Wes. I have come this far so I will unbolt the back and put the rings in the proper order and fix the shims.:(

Mendocino
12-27-2009, 03:56 PM
Sigh:o I had everything ready to go back together on the PS and as I installed the Marlin seal with the seal driver I saw that the innermost seal spring went "sailing" down the axle tube.:eek: I will have to see if I can get an additional seal tomorrow.:o

Rzeppa
12-27-2009, 05:05 PM
I saw that the innermost seal spring went "sailing" down the axle tube

Do'H!

Maybe it wanted to go hang out with the Lock Right spring that went sailing into the far recesses of my garage?

:eek:

I H8t when that happens! Best of luck dude!

Mendocino
12-27-2009, 05:33 PM
Do'H!

Maybe it wanted to go hang out with the Lock Right spring that went sailing into the far recesses of my garage?

:eek:

I H8t when that happens! Best of luck dude!

Thanks for the moral support Jeff. I recovered the errant parts and will get an additional seal from Christo tomorrow and call Marlin and ask WTF?

Looking on the bright side: I have now done at least three knuckle services.:D

Rzeppa
12-27-2009, 08:09 PM
On a pulling at the chin contemplative standpoint - what's the worst thing that can happen if the spring ends up somewhere in the diff housing? It gets crunched up between gears. The gears are hardened like a mo fo and the spring ends up as little pieces down on the magnetic drain plug. Not too bad, just a PITA and extra work to re-do the seal. At the end of the day, life is good when you smell 90wt in the morning. :D

Jacket
03-04-2010, 01:38 PM
Jeff H - Do you still have the tool? I would love to be next in line to borrow it, and certainly to compensate the owner for such usage.