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Groucho
01-30-2008, 08:00 AM
I was just wondering what folks actually thought about this idea.

I had imagined constructing a basic trailer with a simple telescoping ROHN tower that could be raised to 30-40 feet when upright; a simple repeater using maybe two mobile rigs coupled together with a duplexer and controller; battery power with solar charging and backup.

Something like this. (http://www.glenmartin.com/industrial/pg206.htm)

Or this. (http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2006/07/19/1/?nc=1)

Or This? (http://cgi.ebay.com/Military-Radio-Crank-Up-Antenna-Tower_W0QQitemZ310017909057QQihZ021QQcategoryZ4674QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Thoughts? I think we could design and build just about all of the parts that these two examples use. We could also make it so it could be used on Tim's place, and only move it to go to Moab.

I might be dreaming, but why not dream?

DaveInDenver
01-30-2008, 08:48 AM
I like the mil style crank up. That could pretty easily be integrated into the parts trailer, just bolt it on the side. Like you say, a couple of 2m radios, a duplexer and a controller. It wouldn't take up much space. Actually a generator would take up more space than the station itself.

Uncle Ben
01-30-2008, 08:55 AM
I like the mil style crank up. That could pretty easily be integrated into the parts trailer, just bolt it on the side. Like you say, a couple of 2m radios, a duplexer and a controller. It wouldn't take up much space. Actually a generator would take up more space than the station itself.

Do we need two radio's or just trade the 7800 in for a 8800? I see no reason this couldn't be a reality. Somehow I see Michelle being a little more tolerant of a 40-50' tower out of her sight on the property vrs the club trailer in the driveway! Break down whats needed and I'll do my part in snooping around! A couple of group 31 deep cycle batts would last quite a while and with a solar panel trickling in some relief I bet they would last a week with out recharging! Heck while were dreaming how about a internet dish and broadcaster in the trailer also? That would work for both Campground internet access and IRLP!

DaveInDenver
01-30-2008, 09:35 AM
Do we need two radio's or just trade the 7800 in for a 8800?
No, can't use a 8800 for this. We've touched on this subject a few times about the dual VFO radios and the x-band repeat function. Without a self ID and a remote control feature, doing a repeater is illegal. It's skirting the law doing it in the back country, particularly if you leave the truck without someone in front of the radio. You could do a U->V range increasing x-band with the 8800 and just periodically announce that you are KD0CLY on a HT at 446.000 through a repeater to 146.520 (or whatever). But not being physically in control of the mobile radio is technically illegal.

But setting up a real repeater without the ability to have it give its call sign every 10 minutes (that's the Morse you hear on most repeaters) and being able to shut it down would be bad. You don't have to station a ham in front of a repeater because the repeater controller has the ability to shut down the transmitter by phone or over the radio with the DTMF keys. That is not possible with the 8800 or most end user level radios. So you'd need two mobile radios and a controller.
I see no reason this couldn't be a reality. Somehow I see Michelle being a little more tolerant of a 40-50' tower out of her sight on the property vrs the club trailer in the driveway! Break down whats needed and I'll do my part in snooping around! A couple of group 31 deep cycle batts would last quite a while and with a solar panel trickling in some relief I bet they would last a week with out recharging! Heck while were dreaming how about a internet dish and broadcaster in the trailer also? That would work for both Campground internet access and IRLP!
The rest of this stuff is all doable. A 50W radio on TX draws about 8 to 10 amps. So figure the complete load would be like 15 to 20 amps with another radio on RX and the controller. I think running on battery is OK with a decent solar grid (say about 300 watts) for a portable, temporary repeater. If it was semi-permanent repeater, then I think being able to plug it in would be better.

nakman
01-30-2008, 09:40 AM
Yes, the club trailer probably wouldn't fly, I had it for a couple weeks when we first got it and it wasn't all that popular.. she seems to have gotten used to Patrolman's trailer though :).

But as long as the trailer has some good clearance, we can get that dude nice and tucked away back in the woods. I can only see the first of the three links above and tha one is too low, I presume the others are more military style? And as long as we have it properly grounded so there's no lightning danger or interference with the tv in the house, should be fine. But maybe wait until the third Ham class before you guys let her in on this little master plan here.. ;)

And I don't think one 8800 would really cut it, because you really need the duplexer in there to amplify, right? Two 2800's and a duplexer is what's in my head, but I honestly don't completely "get it." I'm sure Dave and/or Nathaniel can break it down though.


edit: and I see Dave types faster than me.. but running a long extension cord out to it is the least of our constraints here.

Uncle Ben
01-30-2008, 10:42 AM
Yes, the club trailer probably wouldn't fly, I had it for a couple weeks when we first got it and it wasn't all that popular.. she seems to have gotten used to Patrolman's trailer though :).

But as long as the trailer has some good clearance, we can get that dude nice and tucked away back in the woods. I can only see the first of the three links above and tha one is too low, I presume the others are more military style? And as long as we have it properly grounded so there's no lightning danger or interference with the tv in the house, should be fine. But maybe wait until the third Ham class before you guys let her in on this little master plan here.. ;)

And I don't think one 8800 would really cut it, because you really need the duplexer in there to amplify, right? Two 2800's and a duplexer is what's in my head, but I honestly don't completely "get it." I'm sure Dave and/or Nathaniel can break it down though.


edit: and I see Dave types faster than me.. but running a long extension cord out to it is the least of our constraints here.

Club already has a 7800 correct? So we just need a power supply antenna, 2800 and duplexer?

Groucho
01-30-2008, 10:43 AM
The 8800 won't work for one important reason--X-Band repeat works in just that way:Cross-band or VHF to UHF. There is no opportunity to do a VHF to VHF Repeat because of the lack of duplexer to accomplish this.

Therefore, the "poor man's" repeater is actually two single VFO(Variable Frequency Oscillator) radios hooked together. One is a dedicated reveiver, the other is a dedicated transmitter(and sometimes they can be a dedicated PITA:D if they malfunction. This is what Dave was mentioning about being able to turn them OFF remotely if a problem arises.).

Imagine the two radios stacked on top of each other. One is on 145.145, which would be the dedicated transmit. The other is on 144.545 which is the dedicated recieve. The speaker output of the recieve radio goes into the microphone input of the transmit radio. Each antenna connection goes out about 12 inches to what is known as a duplexer. Then out of the duplexer goes one coax feedline to the antenna. Theoretically, when the receive radio receives a transmission on the receive frequency, the radio would put that as audio output to the transmit radio's audio input, where that radio would then transmit that audio on the transmit frequency. This is all done using the same antenna.

Now, the duplexer prevents the receive radio from being nuked by the transmit radio's power when the transmit radio is transmitting.

One thing that Dave mentioned that I intentionally left out of the example above is the controller. This piece of equipement does several things. It is responsible for the CW ID, as well as performs the task of being the "operator" in the theory of the Remote Operation. This does the "keying" of the transmit radio when the receive radio recieves a transmission. If something goes wrong with the repeater, the controller can shut things down(I don't know all about how they do it) so that there isn't a carrier signal being transmitted 24/7, burning up the radios, etc. These things all keep the station in the "legal" so that it may operate.

Aside from a power supply(easy), an antenna(which the club already owns) and a tower(which we are confident we could build), that is all that would be needed to have a working repeater. One Yaesu FT2800 would be $125. Duplexers are reasonable, and a controller is around the $250-$500 range if I have read my tea leaves right. I think we could be in business with either a portable of semi-permanent repeater station for less than $1000.

Seldom Seen
01-30-2008, 07:34 PM
Easy Peasy (http://www.arrowantennas.com/uconrtoller.html) Says HT's but I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work with 2 mobiles

Convert
01-31-2008, 04:27 PM
This all looks very interesting and doable I like the military tower

Seldom Seen
02-11-2008, 12:38 AM
Great instructional video on tower raising

*caution: Language*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECbpZ-JotFk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUJJN_CEAWc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPgIJ2sGaNY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SkxOsjBJFE&feature=related

nakman
02-11-2008, 10:38 PM
Alright, which one of you guys leaked? :rant: bastids..

wesintl
02-11-2008, 11:26 PM
:lmao: :lmao:

Uncle Ben
02-11-2008, 11:34 PM
Alright, which one of you guys leaked? :rant: bastids..

OUCH! :eek: Luckily, V-Day is coming up soon....use the day wisely my friend! :bowdown::Princess:

corsair23
02-12-2008, 12:15 AM
OUCH! :eek: Luckily, V-Day is coming up soon....use the day wisely my friend! :bowdown::Princess:

x2

You should have seen the look in her eyes when someone mentioned something about a tower and keeping it from falling into the tub :eek: :hill:

DaveInDenver
02-12-2008, 05:52 AM
Alright, which one of you guys leaked? :rant: bastids..
That was Brian who leaked. Yeah, Brian.





I thought she was on the forum, honestly I did. :doh:

Uncle Ben
02-12-2008, 06:09 AM
That was Brian who leaked. Yeah, Brian.





I thought she was on the forum, honestly I did. :doh:

http://www.dinicartoons.com/forum/images/smilies/Star_Wars/yoda5.gif
"Screw up, he did....have any idea she know not did, he did not!" ;) :lmao:

DaveInDenver
02-12-2008, 06:52 AM
"Screw up, he did....have any idea she had, he did not!"Yup.

Red_Chili
02-12-2008, 07:22 AM
I thought she took it well. Did I see enthusiasm when I suggested she could just leave her dinner out and it would heat itself? Yep, I'm sure of it.

Tramontana
02-12-2008, 08:37 AM
I thought she took it well. Did I see enthusiasm when I suggested she could just leave her dinner out and it would heat itself? Yep, I'm sure of it.


...I was sitting two chairs away, and I'm pretty certain I heard teeth nashing, and something like "He is soooo busted" muttered under her breath?! :rant:

DaveInDenver
02-12-2008, 08:50 AM
teeth nashing
That was my brain trying to slam the mouth into reverse. Abort! Abort! Abort! But it just hung out there, like some sort of cartoon dialog bubble. Why, oh why, can't I abort! Abandon ship. I was sure you guys could hear the klaxon horn going off in my head. This is NOT a drill! (http://www.armbrusterweb.com/public/music/klaxon.mp3)

Red_Chili
02-12-2008, 09:34 AM
That was the most entertaining part of the ordeal!!:p:

RockRunner
02-12-2008, 10:21 AM
She did leave during the break to calm down I think. Either that or to call you and let you know what to expect when she came home.

nakman
02-12-2008, 10:23 AM
She did leave during the break to calm down I think. Either that or to call you and let you know what to expect when she came home.

Yup, she called me from the bathroom.

Red_Chili
02-12-2008, 10:41 AM
Never a good sign. Never. :eek:











:lmao:

RockRunner
02-12-2008, 10:43 AM
Yup, she called me from the bathroom.

oh to be a fly on the wall....................hope you made it through OK. Take Kevin's advice, V Day is here and you can score big points:eek::lmao:

corsair23
02-12-2008, 12:24 PM
I thought she took it well. Did I see enthusiasm when I suggested she could just leave her dinner out and it would heat itself? Yep, I'm sure of it.


I'm pretty sure her enthusiasm increased when she heard about collecting :twocents: to help cover the costs of running the repeater :hill: - I believe it was Karie that questioned clubs charging to use their repeaters and then Michelle seemed to go :rolleyes: :lmao:


So Tim, are we gonna have to do some damage control next week? Or do we need to take up a collection to help cover the cost of the V-day gifts you are now contemplating :)

Hulk
02-12-2008, 12:26 PM
Yes, Karie mentioned to me that Michelle was getting a lot of ribbing about a radio tower in her new backyard. She didn't mention that it was the first Michelle had heard of it.

She also said the "wives" class was mostly guys.

Red_Chili
02-12-2008, 01:08 PM
Yeah, what's up with THAT? We definitely need to improve the class aesthetics EH!

We need to guard against being a boys club! If for no other reason than being accused of being the whitey-tighty geeks we actually are.

wesintl
02-12-2008, 01:12 PM
Drew and UB do make a nice couple :D

nakman
02-12-2008, 01:17 PM
Do you guys think a VX-3r is a nice Valentine's day gift? :)

Her birthday was yesterday too, so she's already got a buttload of flowers at the house and at work..

Uncle Ben
02-12-2008, 01:23 PM
Drew and UB do make a nice couple :D


Thank you! You don't think Drews donut makes my butt look to big? :eek: :lmao::lmao:

Uncle Ben
02-12-2008, 06:24 PM
An idea spawned from a different thread.... Cell Trees (http://waynesword.palomar.edu/faketree.htm)

RockRunner
02-12-2008, 07:45 PM
Drew and UB do make a nice couple :D

I'm sitting somewhere else next class :eek::eek:

RockRunner
02-12-2008, 07:46 PM
Do you guys think a VX-3r is a nice Valentine's day gift? :)

Her birthday was yesterday too, so she's already got a buttload of flowers at the house and at work..

Keep the flowers and gifts coming, it can't hurt :lmao:

corsair23
03-07-2008, 11:32 AM
Not to bring back any bad memories for Tim, but I saw this on eBay today :D

US Tower MARB550, 55' Tower + Yaesu G-800SDX Rotor (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110231308934&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D110231308934%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1)

Yeah, it isn't portable but it still looks dang :cool:

Hulk
03-07-2008, 06:43 PM
How are we going to get that from Oregon to Tim's house? :confused:

I'm standing by with the club PayPal account. Let me know if I should place a bid.

JohnInDenver
03-07-2008, 08:04 PM
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/ele/597851774.html

Ramona is 1 hour East of my sons house in Santee (San Diego). A Ham head that is part of Tierra Del Sol 4x4 (as is he) could check it out. Looks kind of heavy. But then I don't know squat about repeater antennas.

John
KDODCU

Hulk
03-07-2008, 09:35 PM
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/ele/597851774.html

Ramona is 1 hour East of my sons house in Santee (San Diego). A Ham head that is part of Tierra Del Sol 4x4 (as is he) could check it out. Looks kind of heavy. But then I don't know squat about repeater antennas.

John
KDODCU

Good deal -- but again, how are we going to get it here?

corsair23
03-08-2008, 01:31 AM
Wonder if we could get one of them to meet us near Reno with it loaded on a trailer? :D

Honestly I hadn't thought about shipping as I was pretty sure Tim, and Michelle, really wouldn't want something that big on their land :hill:

JohnInDenver
03-08-2008, 02:25 AM
If interested I can have my son check to see if anyone from TDS 4x4 will be going to Moab soon. More importantly, is this the right antenna tower?


John
KDODCU

Hants
03-08-2008, 01:44 PM
I'll be in San Diego in early April for a week, then driving back with my new sub-tank. Was going to borrow a family car to drive back, but I could explore borrowing a family F250 to haul it back (how big is it? would I need to rustle up a trailer, too?).

Mendocino
03-08-2008, 03:13 PM
I think the sections are 22' long, so I think a trailer is required.

corsair23
03-08-2008, 09:39 PM
As exciting as this all seems I wouldn't start making any plans just yet :hill:

I really doubt that Tim and Michelle want a big tower up on their property and the last thing they need right now with the move is us trying to take over their property :D

Seeing as this things isn't "mobile" I don't believe it fits what was being loosely discussed in the first place. It was really just one of those "saw it on eBay" things to post up as a joke.

Although I must admit, Tim & Michelle have a pretty dang good view of Denver from their new place :thumb:

JohnInDenver
03-11-2008, 09:40 PM
At the last monthly meeting there was mention of un spent funds from State recreation fees that will be taken if not used by non profit organizations for a worthy cause.

What about applying for a grant to purchase a new or used trailer, mast, generator, solar panel setup that could be used for a repeater? It may require member contributions and Rising Sun contributions. It may require the repeater setup occasionally be available for activities consistent with the grant.

A manufactured, field tested, mast-trailer setup made for an antenna should be more user friendly-reliable-safe then something put together from whatever. http://www.floatograph.com/fmseries/intro.htm have examples of mast trailers and mast vehicles. The military applications are interesting. About 3/4 down is info about used trailers for around $5,000.

John
KDODCU

nakman
03-12-2008, 08:41 AM
At the last monthly meeting there was mention of un spent funds from State recreation fees that will be taken if not used by non profit organizations for a worthy cause.

What about applying for a grant to purchase a new or used trailer, mast, generator, solar panel setup that could be used for a repeater? It may require member contributions and Rising Sun contributions. It may require the repeater setup occasionally be available for activities consistent with the grant.

A manufactured, field tested, mast-trailer setup made for an antenna should be more user friendly-reliable-safe then something put together from whatever. http://www.floatograph.com/fmseries/intro.htm have examples of mast trailers and mast vehicles. The military applications are interesting. About 3/4 down is info about used trailers for around $5,000.

John
KDODCU

Maybe if it was the club's trailer, and I was just letting the club park it up behind the house, then the idea could possibly fly. A big ass tower isn't ever going to be approved, though. But I tell ya after hearing how clear simplex was last Monday I immediately started thinking about what kind of base station I could set up down in my little shop.. only problem is there's no power and no heat, but I should have power by the end of the summer.

But those trailers are a lot like what we've been scheming, very cool. Spring that bad boy over and it's ready to go:

Tramontana
03-12-2008, 11:37 AM
...and camo it with Krylon, and you would be good to go! :thumb:


Of coure it would need new color scheme to disappear during Cruise Moab?!:lmao:


Who within RS is good at grant writing? There ought to be someone able to help secure the funds? Perhaps COHVCO could help?

Cheers!

nakman
03-13-2008, 01:54 PM
now THAT's an idea.. and there's a thread in Land Use about applying for grant money. Benefit is improved safety and communication for all club sponsored volunteer efforts? I'm sure someone could spin that into a nice pitch..

Mendocino
03-14-2008, 07:02 PM
I have >2 acres in Broomfield with no covenants; it could be parked at my place (as long as I could use it while it was here;)).:thumb:

nakman
03-20-2008, 09:22 PM
Uh oh.. http://denver.craigslist.org/sys/601430800.html