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Crash
01-30-2008, 10:40 AM
Thought about putting this in Chat but it is technical related. Our 19 year old nephew, without my knowing about it, bought a used '97 Disco a couple of weeks ago. It gets worse. Yesterday, the oil light, what, no gauge?, started flickering so he stopped and checked the oil. According to him the dipstick was stained and he couldn't tell the level so he added two quarts just to be safe. :eek: Light went out for a couple of miles and then it came back on at the same time the engine died. Had it towed into town, Hays, KS, and the shop owner is telling him the engine is seized and needs to be replaced - it was overfull by two quarts. I'm driving over there tomorrow to appease my curiosity and make sure nephew isn't being given the runaround. Now the tech part, a question for the group's wisdom: What is the likely outcome of overfilling the crankcase by two quarts? Sounds as if there was an oncoming problem, the oil pressure light flickering, but is overfilling the crankcase a sure death sentence for an engine? At worst, I can tow the truck to a place that won't charge storage until nephew and parents can decide what to do and, fingers crossed, find that after cooling down, the engine starts up and the truck can be moved on its own.
Kids. And their parents that allow them to buy Discos!
Thanks for any responses no matter how derogatory. ;)

treerootCO
01-30-2008, 10:52 AM
Too much oil you may get windage. That is about it, oil was full, oil pump wasn't working?

Red_Chili
01-30-2008, 11:19 AM
Maybe sucked oil into the intake and fouled plugs? I could see it causing it to die, but not a death sentence. That would be from other things like mentioned ^^

leiniesred
01-30-2008, 11:32 AM
Crash: I'm gunna say spun bearing = no oil pressure = light flickering = seized up.

The 2 extra qts of oil are not going to be a cause of the problem.
You know my Austin Healey background. The Rover probably leaked out any extra oil in the first 10 minutes.


Where is that story about the Girlfriend on the side of the road with the oil light on. Calls Boyfriend. Adds a quart, still not full, adds a second, still not full, adds 2 more and she tells the incredulous Boyfriend, "No I'm serious, I put in 4 quarts and it still isn't up to the top of the hole." I think she drove it home no problems.

Guy at work borrowed the boss's F350 to move something. Did him a favor in return and changed the oil. Drained the tranny, and put 2 gallons of engine oil in the engine. Engine ran fine with 2 extra gallons, but the transmission wasn't too happy about running empty after about 50 miles.

Uncle Ben
01-30-2008, 11:34 AM
All is correct here! Excessive oil will cause increased windage and foaming. Results - leaks and very wet oil vapor into the intake via PCV system. It could possibly cause fouling but if it seized the problem was greater that over filled crankcase! Of course I, and everyone here, are assuming it was just two quarts over filled! If enough oil was added in thoery you could cause a hydrolock situation from oil foam or even liquid squeezing up through the rings to the combustion chamber. My guess would be a plugged or failed oiling system!

Crash
01-30-2008, 11:57 AM
I was curious about the possibility of a hydrolock situation but agree that windage and resultant oil foaming is probably the extent of being overfilled two quarts. I also agree that a bearing problem is the likely suspect if the engine is indeed seized as claimed. I'll pull the plugs and check for fouling. Do Rovers require metric or standard for most nuts and bolts? Hopefully, a '97 Rover is a little more standardized than our '90 Jaguar XJS. To pull the radiator on it required 11 :rolleyes: different wrench sizes including metric, standard AND Whitworth or some other such size that a metric or standard wouldn't fit!!! Gawd, that was fun.
Thanks for the input ya'll.

subzali
01-30-2008, 12:21 PM
What's windage? And what's a windage tray? Sorry to steal the thread...

wesintl
01-30-2008, 12:27 PM
It's oil splashing on the crank counter weights. A tray merely prevents the splashing onto the crank and other items that don't need to be oiled. It can cause significant power loss in race engines I dunno if it really affects the average rover powerloss.

Uncle Ben
01-30-2008, 12:51 PM
It's oil splashing on the crank counter weights. A tray merely prevents the splashing onto the crank and other items that don't need to be oiled. It can cause significant power loss in race engines I dunno if it really affects the average rover powerloss.

Yup....Wes hit close. Windage is a loss of power from the crank weights and journals traveling through an oil filled space. A "windage tray" is a baffle that prevent excess oil from the pan to splash up and a "Windage scraper" is a baffle that is close fit to the crank on the up traveling side of rotation that shears off the oil from the crank so it can return to the sump and also stops the oil from climbing the crankcase from the same rotational force. It is a power loss at high RPM and can give the engine some "free" horsepower increase by it's presence. Ultra high RPM engines (>10k) can actually cavitate the oil pump by having so much oil in suspension in the case! Cruisers have a baffle that is more for slowing the sump from dumping out when the vehicle is climbing or descending although it does have a scraper built in to control oil climb too. Unless your spinning over 5K you won't notice much effect on the dyno from scrapers and trays. So in Steve's "Rover excess oil condition" you can see what would happen if the journals/weights were actually hitting the oil surface.

Beater
01-30-2008, 02:31 PM
ok - so I have a rover background.

There are two oil lights on all rovers. level and pressure. VERY common amongst laymen and soccer-moms to see the oil pressure light come on, and add oil.

the 97 4.0 motor is prone to top end failure and journal failure. There is also an issue with the oil sender module on some models as well.

I would say you have a series of unfortunate events.

no whitworth, all metric. No sae.

Crash
01-30-2008, 03:09 PM
Thanks John, I was hpoing you'd chime in. Off to Hays tomorrow with some tools and a tow strap!!

Beater
01-30-2008, 03:52 PM
Thanks John, I was hpoing you'd chime in. Off to Hays tomorrow with some tools and a tow strap!!


YOU CANNOT FLAT TOW A ROVER. PERIOD

unless you pull the driveshafts. you must pull both, not just the front or the rear.

Remember, that a rover 3.9/4.0/4.6 is a freshenned version of the buick wildcat 215. Some buick v8 parts still interchange with a little work. Forget anything fancy, it's just a good ole v8.

now to the bad. These machines were known to loose intake manifold gaskets, resulting in oil/water mix. I would lean towards the fact that it is dead on it's own merits, and not related to the oil. 2 quarts over will cause some foaming, but I can't see what else.

Also, they had some block cavatation issues as well from castings. Also some block cracking, but that was more in 99's.

j

Crash
01-30-2008, 06:02 PM
You lost me on the Buick Wildcat 215. The 215 was an aluminum V6, wasn't it? Anyway, thanks for the headsup on flattowing - I had thought I would have to pull the driveshafts but now I know!
Ah, kids and Ah, Rovers. Time to get him back to a Toyota of some sort. The plan is to have the truck towed back to Kansas City, from whence it came and auction it off through friends of the family, so it won't be a total loss. Some things, when you are 19 and pretty much left to your own devices, you have to learn the hard way. He is.
Thanks again, to everyone who has lent a hand.
Steve

treerootCO
01-31-2008, 09:23 AM
http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/GM-215-Engine-Identification.htm

Oldsmobile Jetfire was a factory turbocharged version