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Jacket
02-05-2008, 10:54 PM
I'm considering the pros and cons of 2.5" OME springs versus some of the 4" offerings out there (BDS, Skyjacker) on an FJ40. MUD seems to be down right now (blocking my R&D efforts), and so I thought I'd ask the RS knowledge base. I'm thinking 33's on a rig that will have limited weekend mall duty and occasion mild - moderate trail duty. I think from what I've read, I can run 33's with either spring setup, so other than the additional clearance gained with a 4" spring, what other pros and cons are there in each setup. And are there other reasonable options for taking the OME spring setup, and pushing it up toward 3-4" (I know the answer is yes, but I want to hear the yeas and nays).

Another thing that is influencing my decision is that I got an offer from OME before Xmas because of a screw-up on their part.

" We would like to make up the situation to you by offering the
opportunity to buy directly from us in the future for an extremely good price. If you need something please call me or email and I will make it happen at a screaming deal. We do care that you are happy with our products and our service and hope you will consider buying ARB in the future."

So I don't have a price quote yet, but I'm thinking this could be a smart way to spend some ARB money. And I don't want this offer to "expire" while I sit and do nothing.

You're thoughts and insights are appreciated.

nuclearlemon
02-05-2008, 10:57 PM
no experience with anything other than stock, rancho (no way in hell ever ever again) and skyjacker. i really liked my skyjackers and would do it again.

Hulk
02-05-2008, 11:40 PM
You're welcome to drive my 40 with 4" BDS springs. I like them fine. No experience with anything else other than stock.

corsair23
02-06-2008, 12:39 AM
Ummmm...So does this mean you found a 40??? :D

No help on the suspension question. Not sure what I have but I "think" it might be a Rancho suspension and probably 4". The shocks are Rancho anyway. I've read where people say Rancho suspensions are awful. Mine rides decent (much better than my '76 did with an SOR 4" lift) so either I don't have a Rancho suspension or it is well broken in.

Personally, I'd go with the minimum height lift you need for your planned use. 40s are basically boxes and tippy enough. I know many may disagree with me on that but that is my feeling. A taller lift won't net you any additional clearance under the axles, tires do that. A taller lift will net you additional body panel clearance but you have to decide if you need it or not.

And, IMO with 33s if you get too much lift it starts looking funny - my '74 had 35s on it when I bought it and the tires really filled out the wheel wells. With the 33s that I have on my 40 now, well they don't fill out the wheel wells so much and it took some time to get use to the new look.

MDH33
02-06-2008, 08:53 AM
Ummmm...So does this mean you found a 40??? :D



My thought exactly! Already shopping for springs before you have the rig?? Or are you holding out on us??

I'm running a 4"Downey lift and I like it lots. I've heard good things about OME 2.5" lifts too, and if you're going to run 33's and not wheel it hard, I think that would be a great set-up. Contact Cruiser Outfitters for a good deal on the complete set-up.

Uncle Ben
02-06-2008, 08:54 AM
I'll chime in about BDS vrs. Skyjacker as I have had them both. DO NOT BUY SKYJACKER! They absolutely WILL NOT stand behind their springs! I had a set on my 40 and one basically collapsed. 4 Wheel Parts Whorehouse covered that one as they were only 6 months old. In a little over a year I had another one going flat. 4WPW backing was no longer in place and Skyjacker wouldn't even talk about it. After calling around trying to find a way to get it replaced I found several vendors badmouthing SJ for the very problem I had. After chatting with my bud, Charlie at Chimney Canyon 4x4 in Rapid City (http://www.chimneycanyon4x4.com/)(I know...shameless plug but what can I say....he's AWESOME!), I went with (then just starting out) Big Dick Suspension (BDS). I was impressed early on! The springs lasted through heavy abuse the whole time I had them and I sold them to a buddy and they are still going strong! BDS Will stand behind their products and assure you of that up front!

Another story about Skyjunk's customer service. Some here might remember but a guy attending one of the first Cruise Moabs broke off a spring eye on his very new Skyjunks. He tried hard in Moab to get it replaced but the none of the shops in town carry Skyjunks because they were getting stuck with junk springs as SJ again would not service what they sell! BTW....he ended up replace one end of his Cruiser with Rancho's so he could wheel it....griped the whole time about the stiff ride compared to the Skyjunks.

Maybe they have improved over the years but I'll never trust their crap again!

SROR/AKA 2BAD
02-06-2008, 09:33 AM
with a little work you can go one step better than a lifted 40 spring. plus, you can get your shackle angle anyway you want it.

modded 60 springs and new hangers :thumb:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/hardcore-corner/202907-modded-fliped-rear-60-springs-front-rear.html

nuclearlemon
02-06-2008, 09:38 AM
No help on the suspension question. Not sure what I have but I "think" it might be a Rancho suspension and probably 4". The shocks are Rancho anyway. I've read where people say Rancho suspensions are awful. Mine rides decent (much better than my '76 did with an SOR 4" lift) so either I don't have a Rancho suspension or it is well broken in.

.

if it rides decent, no way it's rancho. shocks often have nothing to do with the springs. i ran rancho shocks with skyjackers.

Uncle Ben
02-06-2008, 09:48 AM
if it rides decent, no way it's rancho. shocks often have nothing to do with the springs. i ran rancho shocks with skyjackers.

Unless they are Rancho 5000's. Nakmans 2x4 prototypes would ride smoother than those!

wesintl
02-06-2008, 10:17 AM
I'm thinking 33's on a rig that will have limited weekend mall duty and occasion mild - moderate trail duty.

Another thing that is influencing my decision is that I got an offer from OME before Xmas because of a screw-up on their part.

OME rides really nice imho for 33's and a light duty wheeling rig that see's more "dirt roads" than rockcrawling and mall duty.

nuclearlemon
02-06-2008, 10:22 AM
Maybe they have improved over the years but I'll never trust their crap again!

they would've had to have gotten worse. my buddy steve was the first one to purchase their 4" lift and his springs were fine until he totalled the rig a couple years ago, and my springs were set number 9 or so and mine are still going strong. i just met a guy in moab two years ago that's got my old springs and shackles. I bought them back in 91 or 92.

nakman
02-06-2008, 10:24 AM
Jacket, my vote is stay with 2.5", don't go 4".

Uncle Ben
02-06-2008, 10:30 AM
Jacket, my vote is stay with 2.5", don't go 4".

I have to agree.....UNLESS your ultimate plans in the future include 35's. Do it once and right!

wesintl
02-06-2008, 11:13 AM
UNLESS your ultimate plans in the future include 35's. Do it once and right!

Still, with that statement... a 4" lift never comes to thought :bowdown:

:thumb:

nakman
02-06-2008, 11:19 AM
Put 35's on the Taco. Keep the 40 fun to drive & unmolested.

Jacket
02-06-2008, 12:10 PM
Thanks guys. No 40 yet, but lets just say I'm making good progress :p: The only reason I'm pushing for this right now is simply to not let that offer from ARB expire on me. I sent Marc (ARB) a request for a quote last night - if its on par with what Kurt at Cruiseroutfitters is offering, then I can wait. But if its a deal I can't refuse, I'll probably pull the trigger on the OME and let it take up space in my garage. I was kinda leaning that way already, but when I was checking out some of your rigs, I found a lot of 4" lifts (Romer/Nakman, MDH and Hulk) and the stance looked good.


35's on the Taco :thumb: I'd have to cut the front cross member and do some heavy IFS mods, but it can be done....

Jacket
02-06-2008, 12:11 PM
So what's the skinny on shackle reversal? Good, bad, or personal preference?

nakman
02-06-2008, 12:15 PM
So what's the skinny on shackle reversal? Good, bad, or personal preference?

Personal preference. IMO it's worse to put more pressure on your transfer case, which your driveshaft will do when your shackles are on the back side. That downside more than offsets the upside of less bump steer.

Uncle Ben
02-06-2008, 12:36 PM
Personal preference. IMO it's worse to put more pressure on your transfer case, which your driveshaft will do when your shackles are on the back side. That downside more than offsets the upside of less bump steer.

I, of course, will argue the other way all the way. IMO both from someone mechanically inclined and from personal experience will say that shackles on the steering end of your suspension is the lamest freaking engineering ever done. Kinda like putting the reel on the little end of a fishing pole! :rolleyes: With that I'll shut up.... :rolleyes:

nakman
02-06-2008, 02:20 PM
Well there you have it, Jacket. flip for it!

Hulk
02-06-2008, 11:36 PM
If you're going to reverse your shackles, don't get the kit. It turns your front spring mounts into giant rock catchers.

Rzeppa
02-07-2008, 01:16 AM
Matt, there is a super inexpensive and (relatively) easy way to lift a 40 to fit 33s (around 2-3"); about $120 not including shocks. My 71 has been riding on it for four years and no issues. Flexy and supple. I have yet to drive or ride in a 40 with 4" springs that I thought were comfortable. If I wanted to run 35s or larger I'd do a spring over (or coil over).

Jim Chenoweth makes an excellent engineering argument on why reversed shackles on Land Cruisers are a poor design choice. Note that the reversed shackles on early pickups and runners are with relatively flat springs from the showroom and a different shaped frame. I'll have to dig up his post from the LCML several years ago but it makes you think. There are certainly differences too, between the "kit" shackle reversals which are rock finders, and custom ones which put the spring eye directly under the frame.

trucruiser
02-07-2008, 09:31 AM
I ran BDS 2.5" Springs with a slightly longer shackle and loved em, wheeled with them numerous times and always held up nicely.

Jacket
02-07-2008, 01:33 PM
The Man a Fre web site has some interesting pros and cons (mostly pros) of the different spring/shackle setups, but of course they are trying to sell their product.

Jeff - what are you running? Is it the equivalent of some type of spacer lift, or an AAL?

I guess a lot of the decision depends on the condition of the stock springs, and whether they provide adequate ride support and flex. I hate trying to forecast these things, because usually what I think now won't be the same as what I think in 6-12 months.......

nakman
02-07-2008, 02:08 PM
I believe Jeff is running an AAL, with one or two of the smaller springs removed. So total spring count is the same or one less, but the dinky ones get replaced by bigger ones. His green 40 sits at the perfect height, IMO.. 33x10.50's stuff no problem without any fender cutting :thumb:

When I got my 40 the first thing I did was lose the 4" lift, much to the chagrin of the PO :D. But I thought it was too stiff and too sketchy particularly with the skinny tires, and the truck was much more fun to drive and ride it back down at stock height. Had I not sold it in favor of a commuter vehicle, I'd have put on the 2.5" OME Dakar springs by now.

Coolest thing in that section from MAF, IMO, is their u-bolt flip kit, if you're poking around in there check that out... just puts all the nuts on top so the only thing underneath the spring to catch rocks is the actual u-bolt.

Rzeppa
02-08-2008, 10:29 AM
Jeff - what are you running? Is it the equivalent of some type of spacer lift, or an AAL?

No, it's modified spring pack design my good friend Wayne from Calgary showed me. You take the bottome two leaves off the stock spring packs, then put a Rancho add-a-leaf which is for a YJ application under there in place of the two bottom stock leaves, then a new center pin. One of the cool things about this method is you don't even have to remove the shackles or spring pins, saving a HUGE amount of work.

When I did mine, I went ahead and put new poly bushings all around and greasable spring pins anyway, but that was just "while I was in there" anyway. Bottom line is just enough lift to clear 33x10.5s, excellent articulation, very nice on-road ride and handling, and super-inexpensive!

I have the Rancho P/Ns around somewhere. The add-a-leafs are about $60 for a pair, and they even come with new center pins.

timmbuck2
02-08-2008, 10:35 AM
Sounds perfect for my 40...all I want to fit are 33's anyway. Cool!!



No, it's modified spring pack design my good friend Wayne from Calgary showed me. You take the bottome two leaves off the stock spring packs, then put a Rancho add-a-leaf which is for a YJ application under there in place of the two bottom stock leaves, then a new center pin. One of the cool things about this method is you don't even have to remove the shackles or spring pins, saving a HUGE amount of work.

When I did mine, I went ahead and put new poly bushings all around and greasable spring pins anyway, but that was just "while I was in there" anyway. Bottom line is just enough lift to clear 33x10.5s, excellent articulation, very nice on-road ride and handling, and super-inexpensive!

I have the Rancho P/Ns around somewhere. The add-a-leafs are about $60 for a pair, and they even come with new center pins.

nuclearlemon
02-08-2008, 12:20 PM
for a daily driver, i'd definitely do the shackle reversal. as mentioned, i wouldn't use the kit. use your rear spring hanger on the front and cut the tube from the front hanger and french it into the frame in back.

the shackle in front is great for off road because it helps you bump up things, but that's what makes it suck on a rutted highway.

since you'll probably want to fix it up nicely before you drive it, check/replace tre's and rebuild center arm and see if you like the shackles in front. if not, you can always move em later. ;)

corsair23
02-11-2008, 03:12 AM
If you're going to reverse your shackles, don't get the kit. It turns your front spring mounts into giant rock catchers.

Maybe on the old kits? Wanna see my rock catchers? :D

I think the newer kits have it so the hanger is angled back so it is more of a rock "slider" than a catcher...Mine are the old style and you can definitely see where they have taken on the rocks...

Uncle Ben
02-11-2008, 08:44 AM
Maybe on the old kits? Wanna see my rock catchers? :D

I think the newer kits have it so the hanger is angled back so it is more of a rock "slider" than a catcher...Mine are the old style and you can definitely see where they have taken on the rocks...

The kits have always been dubbed "rock finders." The fact is they do not protrude much over the stock shackle length. A front mounted shackle will bend the spring when it impacted that hard where as the "rock finders" will either stop you in your tracks or skid up on the rock. If you mount the "RF's" backwards and flip your front spring you will gain an incredible amount of approach angle!

Rezarf
02-11-2008, 10:37 AM
FWIW, I have 4" springs and they ride great... just like an empty dumptruck :rolleyes:

If I did it over again, I would only go OME or the new Parobolics on the scene, I don't have any experience with them but they seem to be loved by those with them on their rigs

just another thought.

Drew