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View Full Version : Interest in a 22RE head/rockers/cam?


Red_Chili
04-04-2008, 01:19 PM
Trying to decide if an Engnbldr performance head is worth it for my 1993 DD that Squishy and I are going through. Anybody needing a stock 22RE head/rockers/cam?

DaveInDenver
04-04-2008, 01:48 PM
I have Ted's Street/RV head with oversized valves and 261 Crawler cam. The casting is Topline and it said made in Brazil or Argentina or something, I forget.

Essentially most of the gains you get with the RV head can be duplicated by porting and polishing a stock head, it's just that the RV head has a bit more beef in the weak spots and requires a little less to gasket match and smooth the passages since it's cast with some of the features. I will say that while the head will get the job done, there is an obvious difference in the quality of the work. You know about the locating dowel screw up, but the head overall just looked to have less attention, poorer quality on chasing things, reaming and reliving edges and cuts, etc. Nothing important, but just a statement to the fact that it's a step down in terms of attention to details during finishing (and to some extent probably the mold quality).

Specs on the head and cam:
The valves are 1.803" intake and 1.481" exhaust, guides are bronze, bowls are increased 8cc. Cam spec is 110 lobe center, 222 duration @ .050" lobe lift, gross valve lift .410". Lash setting is minimum of .007" intake and .009" exhaust.

As far as the valvetrain, LC Engineering sells the whole rocker assembly for what Jerry could do for me on a set of new rockers and shafts. So basically you get a new girdle, springs and washers for free and the parts are OEM (important everyone says use only OEM rockers, the hardened pads apparently fall off the aftermarket ones). Go figure, LCE is cheaper than someone.

Additionally, if you were thinking about reusing your old rocker shafts, check to see if the ones that came with your 22R-E have two oiling ports per rocker. LCE's have 4 oiling ports per rocker. It looks like that was actually a design change because the current OEM also look to have 4 holes now, so I dunno if they changed that during production or later. My 10/90 production had two holes per rocker.

Red_Chili
04-04-2008, 01:58 PM
If I do it, it actually is cheaper to buy the whole loaded head from Ted than have my head redone; hence, the question.

Ted can modify the squish band to my tastes, and knows not to remove material where it can lead to power loss. Can't be beat, really. I'd have him do my perfectly good head, but the cost is nearly the same as his loaded new head.

Just wondering if anyone is interested in a stock 22RE head.

DaveInDenver
04-04-2008, 02:23 PM
Ted can modify the squish band to my tastes, and knows not to remove material where it can lead to power loss. Can't be beat, really. I'd have him do my perfectly good head, but the cost is nearly the same as his loaded new head.
No doubt, I would not send a head up to Ted to have worked on, the shipping alone would unbalance the equation. Well, other than I'm not 100% sure that the Topline isn't thicker just because it's lower quality and takes the brute force approach. Anyway, there isn't much that Todd had to do to my head and I did end up doing a little extra gasket matching on the intake. Keep my ear out for someone in need of a stock head.

Red_Chili
04-04-2008, 03:53 PM
Topline is definitely not lower quality. Ted specified it be thicker in certain places.

As it turns out, Scot Desness is first in line for the head (by PM), so I guess I'd better figure out what kind of price we are talking! I figured there might be some demand but wasn't sure.

DaveInDenver
04-04-2008, 05:40 PM
Topline is definitely not lower quality. Ted specified it be thicker in certain places.
That's awesome. I wasn't aware that Ted's were special, he never mentioned that (but I never asked, either).

LCE, Huber, John's Foreign Engines (22re.com) and DOA all offer Topline regular and RV castings, so I understood them all to be similar.
As it turns out, Scot Desness is first in line for the head (by PM), so I guess I'd better figure out what kind of price we are talking! I figured there might be some demand but wasn't sure.
Sweet. Desness never posts, but he always tells me that he's read this or that. So he's out there quietly collecting all this junk, probably gonna try and put Yotayard out, eh Scott?

Red_Chili
04-04-2008, 10:25 PM
That's awesome. I wasn't aware that Ted's were special, he never mentioned that (but I never asked, either).

LCE, Huber, John's Foreign Engines (22re.com) and DOA all offer Topline regular and RV castings, so I understood them all to be similar.

Well... now you have me doubting myself. I don't know for certain that Ted spec'd it. But he points out the thicker places as being a better design.

DaveInDenver
04-04-2008, 11:57 PM
Well... now you have me doubting myself. I don't know for certain that Ted spec'd it. But he points out the thicker places as being a better design.
No, I do remember him saying something about going to the foundry and saying something about being some sort of distributor for Topline. Not sure the details really. He does know a lot about them and I would not be surprised to hear he's got some sway. In my mind, doesn't matter. The casting is only part of the deal, Todd & Ted doing their bit is the uniqueness. Same as any other engine builder putting their touches on and the guys who port heads are like demigods in NASCAR and NHRA.

DaveInDenver
05-09-2008, 09:13 PM
I posted this over at Yotatech, thought you might be interested in the emissions numbers comparing the Street/RV head with 261 cam to stock.

FYI, last emissions test data from Oct 20, 2007. Mileage on my truck at the time of test was 191,120. I did the engine build at 187,500, so I had about 3,600 miles on the engine. Colorado limit for my truck and year in parenthesis.

HC GPM: 2.2086 (4.000)
CO GPM: 13.7983 (25.000)
CO2 GPM: 385.4784 (no limit given)
NOx GPM: 5.3946 (9.000)

For comparison, the previous emissions test was Oct 18, 2005 (I only have to do them every other year). This was a stock engine, stock head, stock AFM settings, etc. Only upgrades at the time were a LCE header and exhaust. Mileage at time of test was 180,507, so just 7,000 miles before the timing chain break (and resulting internal damage) prompted the engine build-up.

HC GPM: 1.7184
CO GPM: 8.7584
CO2 GPM: 419.1367
NOx GPM: 5.8453

High HC is a measure of unburned fuel. High CO indicates rich A/F mixture. High NOx indicates high combustion temperatures. I totally believe my A/F mixture would be richer now than before, I bumped the AFM up to do exactly that.