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View Full Version : Matt & Tim's 4" lift party


Hulk
04-15-2008, 10:21 AM
Date: This Saturday, April 19.
Time: 9:00 a.m. (but show up whenever is convenient)
Food: Beer and pizza will be provided.

Details: Tim Nakari and I will be installing our Slee 4" lift kits in the Farr garage this Saturday. Come on by to see all the details, turn a wrench, and have a laugh. A few extra hands always make things go faster.

7337 S. Hudson Way
Centennial, CO 80122
(303) 224-0255 home
(303) 918-7099 Matt's cell phone

Tch2fly
04-15-2008, 11:40 AM
That might be even more fun then running Metberry

hmmm ... wait ....have you started spraying on the PB blaster yet?? ;)

Hulk
04-15-2008, 11:55 AM
Neither of the lifts should be extreme knuckle busters. I put my 2.5" OME lift on only 2 years ago, and Nakman tweaks his setup on a monthly basis.

Tch2fly
04-15-2008, 12:18 PM
:D Just funnin ya :D

I'll be there :thumb:
I did my son's 4R two weekends ago and I'm swapping my rear springs on Wed .... I'm practicalee sum kinda expurt :hill:

The big stuff isn't always the hardest
FWIW last weekend I finished putting on my SS brake lines and the old lines were REALLY tight and needed a couple squirts of PB. I also ended up needing to replace a plugged bleeder. (actually I ended up replacing both rear calipers when I found rusty goo in one bleeder)

nakman
04-15-2008, 12:48 PM
Neither of the lifts should be extreme knuckle busters. I put my 2.5" OME lift on only 2 years ago, and Nakman tweaks his setup on a monthly basis.

Slight overstatement, maybe. :D But good point, we won't be turning any bolt that hasn't been turned 6 or 8x before, so I don't anticipate any new "projects." I always wince a little when loosening those lower shock bolts in the back though, but I juiced them up pretty good when I put them in last time and you're right it was probably only a year ago.

Chris, I've got your fridge and transit bag from Slee, also Matt I've got an extra set of control arms for you.. they're not the prettiest but the bushings are good, we could rattle can them up if you want. Corsair they didn't have anything for you in our pile so I guess you didn't get the brake lines? Hope that was all I was supposed to pick up from Slee's shop..

corsair23
04-15-2008, 01:05 PM
Corsair they didn't have anything for you in our pile so I guess you didn't get the brake lines? Hope that was all I was supposed to pick up from Slee's shop..

:( I left Christo a VM to get those ordered this morning for you to pickup but I didn't hear back from him...Thanks for trying though :thumb: - I'll probably just hold off on replacing them until down the road at this point.

On the lift install party...I'll try to swing by depending upon how my rotors, pads, bleeding (brakes and probably my hands), coolant flush and hose replacement, etc. party goes :eek:

Tch2fly
04-15-2008, 01:13 PM
Jeff, I'll be out at Slee on Wed if you want me to get them

nakman
04-15-2008, 01:33 PM
Sorry, Jeff.. I didn't even see Christo either, just Ben, and they were super busy (as was I). But bring your truck over to Matt's on Saturday and I'll help you bleed your brakes there, then you can help me do mine.. :)

corsair23
04-15-2008, 02:05 PM
Jeff, I'll be out at Slee on Wed if you want me to get them

Thanks for the offer but Christo called back and we sort of talked myself out of needing them :eek: :D.

corsair23
04-15-2008, 02:08 PM
Sorry, Jeff.. I didn't even see Christo either, just Ben, and they were super busy (as was I). But bring your truck over to Matt's on Saturday and I'll help you bleed your brakes there, then you can help me do mine.. :)

No worries :thumb:

If I have the rotors and pads on by then I may do that...But when I did the :Princess:'s brakes I didn't even make it down the driveway :eek:. I'd really like to test out the Motive power bleeder this time around so maybe we can put that to use :cool:. I've got to get serious here or I'll be sitting CM08 out with a LX on jack stands in the garage :(

sno bored
04-15-2008, 02:25 PM
That sounds like a fun time, but there is still snowboarding to be done up here, closing weekend at Breckenridge.

Shark Bait
04-15-2008, 02:42 PM
Thanks Tim. I will swing by Saturday. :D

nakman
04-15-2008, 02:59 PM
Oh yeah, one more thing: if anyone talks to Michele, we'll be installing "new shocks and springs." I wasn't allowed to buy a "lift kit," as that is perceived as way too excessive and unnecessary. But new shocks are just a part of regular preventative maintenance, and a much more practical purchase.

Hulk
04-15-2008, 03:34 PM
OK, I will warn Mrs. Farr.

Hants
04-15-2008, 03:35 PM
Oh yeah, one more thing: if anyone talks to Michele, we'll be installing "new shocks and springs." I wasn't allowed to buy a "lift kit," as that is perceived as way too excessive and unnecessary. But new shocks are just a part of regular preventative maintenance, and a much more practical purchase.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


Caroline hangs out around here periodically -- careful! :eek:

Convert
04-15-2008, 07:54 PM
Oh yeah, one more thing: if anyone talks to Michele, we'll be installing "new shocks and springs." I wasn't allowed to buy a "lift kit," as that is perceived as way too excessive and unnecessary. But new shocks are just a part of regular preventative maintenance, and a much more practical purchase.


:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao: Tim keep up the good work you are way too creative my friend:thumb:

timmbuck2
04-16-2008, 10:53 AM
I will be there if I can get some help swapping Matt's lift over to my truck. :) And the same "new shocks and springs" story is what my :Princess: heard. Ohm and they were free, too!!! :D Sounds like a "lift party". Oh, and a brake bleed party, my brakes did NOT like it when I pushed my pistons back in when I did my front axle service...

T





Oh yeah, one more thing: if anyone talks to Michele, we'll be installing "new shocks and springs." I wasn't allowed to buy a "lift kit," as that is perceived as way too excessive and unnecessary. But new shocks are just a part of regular preventative maintenance, and a much more practical purchase.

corsair23
04-16-2008, 05:53 PM
I will be there if I can get some help swapping Matt's lift over to my truck. :) And the same "new shocks and springs" story is what my :Princess: heard. Ohm and they were free, too!!! :D Sounds like a "lift party". Oh, and a brake bleed party, my brakes did NOT like it when I pushed my pistons back in when I did my front axle service...

T


If you show up I have some oil and a DVD for you :cool:

Tch2fly
04-18-2008, 07:24 AM
I'll be there 9ish.

Anything that I can bring?? ... extra jackstands, air tools (impact or ratchet), comfy chair ;)

nakman
04-18-2008, 08:31 AM
Mike do you have an air ratchet? One that zips off the top nut on the DS shock, below the brake dealybop.

Hulk
04-18-2008, 08:33 AM
Extra jackstands would be good. I have 4, but two are smallish.

Tch2fly
04-18-2008, 09:09 AM
Mike do you have an air ratchet? One that zips off the top nut on the DS shock, below the brake dealybop.

Wow I'm not sure I understand all your technical terms but I do have an air ratchet.
Happy to bring it but be aware I've never tried to use it below a dealybop :lmao:

I'll bring my jackstands as well.

nakman
04-18-2008, 09:27 AM
Wow I'm not sure I understand all your technical terms but I do have an air ratchet.
Happy to bring it but be aware I've never tried to use it below a dealybop :lmao:

I'll bring my jackstands as well.


Sorry, that may be a doohickey, I get those two mixed up sometimes. :rolleyes:

timmbuck2
04-20-2008, 10:05 PM
3 lifts in 1 day was too much to tackle, so I am scrambling to get my new (Matt's) lift on before Moab...and I leave Saturday. Any chance I could get a couple of helpers on Tuesday? Maybe Thursday? Saturday morning as a last resort. My garage is fine, but I do not have air. Please let me know if Tuesday works for anyone...I could have the front wheels off by 4:00...should be drinking beer and eating pizza by 9:00 with some experienced help. Thanks all...

Timm


ps-Tim, still have your old steering stabilizer?? I could use it...thanks.

:bowdown::beer::thumb:

nakman
04-20-2008, 10:29 PM
3 lifts in 1 day was too much to tackle, so I am scrambling to get my new (Matt's) lift on before Moab...and I leave Saturday. Any chance I could get a couple of helpers on Tuesday? Maybe Thursday? Saturday morning as a last resort. My garage is fine, but I do not have air. Please let me know if Tuesday works for anyone...I could have the front wheels off by 4:00...should be drinking beer and eating pizza by 9:00 with some experienced help. Thanks all...

Timm


ps-Tim, still have your old steering stabilizer?? I could use it...thanks.

:bowdown::beer::thumb:

Yeah Timm, since you need it before Moab you got it man. Also if you're still at it Thursday night I could likely help, so post up if so. It was good we didn't try to take it all on yesterday, those rear upper control arms totally kicked our ass.. we did my truck in about 6 hours, and then Matt's truck in 5- having the whole thing up on jack stands definitely made a difference, as did having Tch2fly Mike stick around the whole time.. :beer: :beer: :beer2:





Still need to do a couple things on mine, but the big stuff is out of the way. I really recognize a stiffness difference with Slee's springs compared to J's, it's stiffer and much better handling on the street. My steering is better now too going from bushings to plates- my stock DS vibrated a little more on the way home, I expected that. but I've just about got the DC one installed now, just need to torque the t-case bolts.

I am also waiting for MAF to come through on the rear panhard drop bracket I ordered a few weeks ago, :mad: because I can't really wheel this that hard now. I actually have a mellow CM lined up but still I'd like to get this corrected, my tire used to rub the inner fender well when flexed all the way, now the sidewall rubs on the frame and this was still 1.5" from the axle hitting the (now lowered) bump stop.

nakman
04-20-2008, 10:35 PM
Height-wise I think I'm only .5"-1" taller now, compared to J's + Mr. Gaskets front and just J's in back. I'm still lower in front than Mike's who has J's + 1.5" metal spacers, but I've got a lot of weight that's why I wanted the stiffer springs to begin with. (ARB, M12 w/cable, dual batts, york, snackster grill)



But overall I'm very happy with how it looks :D

Hulk
04-20-2008, 11:16 PM
Thanks to all the guys that showed up! My neighbors were all in awe. Our MVP was certainly Mike, who stayed the distance for both lifts!

Some pictures:

Wes Worek demonstrates the difference between Slee 4" and OME "J" springs.

Matt preps control arms for paint.

Tim and Jeff experiment with an odd combo of jack and jackstand to get the appropriate height.

treerootCO
04-20-2008, 11:18 PM
careful...that last pic may end up on the fail thread on Pirate.

corsair23
04-21-2008, 02:44 AM
Glad to hear you guys got it all done! Truly amazing job :thumb:

Sorry I couldn't stick around longer but I was so far behind on my stuff (eh...who am I kidding, I still am) that I'm jeopardizing even going to Moab and that will not make the kids happy :hill:

subzali
04-21-2008, 07:22 AM
Yeah, if you're up at 2:45 am worrying about it then I would say you're behind... :D

Looking pretty spiffy guys! :thumb:

Red_Chili
04-21-2008, 07:48 AM
Tim and Jeff experiment with an odd combo of jack and jackstand to get the appropriate height.
You guys are SCARING ME! :eek:

subzali
04-21-2008, 07:51 AM
Sorry guys, kinda reminded me of this picture:

Kipper
04-21-2008, 08:11 AM
Sorry guys, kinda reminded me of this picture:

:lmao: that one makes me chuckle every time

nakman
04-21-2008, 08:17 AM
:lmao: that one makes me chuckle every time

That is good, hadn't seen that before. And I guess you had to be there for the other one- we had to raise the frame about 1/4" to poke a control arm bolt through the spring, and didn't have a 2x4 within reach so the jack stand was it. Later, much later, we learned that you don't put the springs in until after you install the control arm bolts. :o

Kipper
04-21-2008, 08:26 AM
i only laugh, cause i've been there before (as in this past weekend)!

FJBen
04-21-2008, 08:36 AM
Hey Nak!

How do you like the Slee 4" rears over the J rears? I have J rears and SLee 4" fronts. I wasn't really happy with how the J's felt when towing and having some gear in the back. I have a rear bumper/spare tire carrier/spare but thats about it.

nakman
04-21-2008, 08:56 AM
Hey Nak!

How do you like the Slee 4" rears over the J rears? I have J rears and SLee 4" fronts. I wasn't really happy with how the J's felt when towing and having some gear in the back. I have a rear bumper/spare tire carrier/spare but thats about it.

So far so good, but I've only driven home from Matt's house. They are stiffer, not 864-stiff but definitely more than J's- your tailgate doesn't squish as much when you hop up there, that's for sure. It really feels solid on the highway, and I'm sure it will sag less when I hook up the trailer. Only downside that I've heard (and not yet experienced) is they can become unseated with extreme axle flex.. the L's allow for more droop than the spring is long.

Hulk
04-21-2008, 10:26 AM
I think my tie rod is banging on the front control arms. I drove up to Timm's house last night, and when I hit a dip in the road, I got a big CLUNK! I wonder if installing my Slee panhard rod will fix the problem??

FJBen
04-21-2008, 10:37 AM
I think my tie rod is banging on the front control arms. I drove up to Timm's house last night, and when I hit a dip in the road, I got a big CLUNK! I wonder if installing my Slee panhard rod will fix the problem??

no that won't fix that problem. The panhard is just going to center your axle. it won't change the difference between your tie rod/control arm.

You might have to slightly grind the arms to get that to stop rubbing.


OH, and where are all the PICS! :)

FJBen
04-21-2008, 10:39 AM
So far so good, but I've only driven home from Matt's house. They are stiffer, not 864-stiff but definitely more than J's- your tailgate doesn't squish as much when you hop up there, that's for sure. It really feels solid on the highway, and I'm sure it will sag less when I hook up the trailer. Only downside that I've heard (and not yet experienced) is they can become unseated with extreme axle flex.. the L's allow for more droop than the spring is long.


cool, I think I heard that about the unseating...hmmm...Slee 4" rears or OME comp rears...:confused:

MIne's great without towing, but when towing I notice a little more sag/squish and wouldn't mind some more control.

Uncle Ben
04-21-2008, 10:57 AM
no that won't fix that problem. The panhard is just going to center your axle. it won't change the difference between your tie rod/control arm.

You might have to slightly grind the arms to get that to stop rubbing.


OH, and where are all the PICS! :)

X2 Ben is right on! You have to grind about 1/4" off the top of your control arms where the tire rod crosses with a rod and 1/2" if using the beefy aftermarket TR. The arms are very dense forged steel and they don't grind easily! Drive it a tad so it will shine up the spots that need clearancing.

nakman
04-21-2008, 11:02 AM
X2 Ben is right on! You have to grind about 1/4" off the top of your control arms where the tire rod crosses with a rod and 1/2" if using the beefy aftermarket TR. The arms are very dense forged steel and they don't grind easily! Drive it a tad so it will shine up the spots that need clearancing.

Am I damaging my tie rod at all by letting it hit the control arm? Can I go to Moab like this, then grind it afterwards?

Uncle Ben
04-21-2008, 11:12 AM
Am I damaging my tie rod at all by letting it hit the control arm? Can I go to Moab like this, then grind it afterwards?


Depends on how hard it's rubbing. My guess is you'll be fine and the issue will be annoying more than damaging!

Hulk
04-21-2008, 11:16 AM
X2 Ben is right on! You have to grind about 1/4" off the top of your control arms where the tire rod crosses with a rod and 1/2" if using the beefy aftermarket TR. The arms are very dense forged steel and they don't grind easily! Drive it a tad so it will shine up the spots that need clearancing.

Does it weaken the control arms enough to be a concern? I'm guessing not -- they are quite beefy to begin with.

Uncle Ben
04-21-2008, 11:25 AM
Does it weaken the control arms enough to be a concern? I'm guessing not -- they are quite beefy to begin with.



The arms edge has a crown to it and casting flash. Basically you are just taking off the flash and flattening the curve just a tad. It has probably been done but I have never heard of anyone bending a stock arm without being in a nasty wreck.

Nay
04-21-2008, 02:50 PM
I am also waiting for MAF to come through on the rear panhard drop bracket I ordered a few weeks ago, :mad: because I can't really wheel this that hard now. I actually have a mellow CM lined up but still I'd like to get this corrected, my tire used to rub the inner fender well when flexed all the way, now the sidewall rubs on the frame and this was still 1.5" from the axle hitting the (now lowered) bump stop.

I installed a MAF rear drop bracket, and don't recommend it:

1) It hangs down low, real low, under full compression. As in, bend the rear panhard on obstacle departure low. I didn't like it, and immediately changed it out for the MAF 4+ adjustable rod;

2) It is damn near impossible to get it centered. The anchor bolt that goes in midway up the stock mount tends to bend the metal outwards as you torque it down, and that allows the whole thing to shift. I had my axle located perfectly with a hand winch, drilled the hole, tightened it up, and ended up with an axle shift equal to what I started with. So you'll probably need an adjustable anyway (maybe you have one with the 4" kit?);

3) You are lowering roll axis.

The best solution would be to raise the axle end mount about 2.5" - 3" (don't do it too much or your new mount will hit the crossmember on compression). That requires about an hour of fab work, though, but you are raising roll axis, increasing clearance, and keeping a (near) horizontal panhard.

Hope that helps :cheers:

Uncle Ben
04-21-2008, 03:04 PM
I installed a MAF rear drop bracket, and don't recommend it:

1) It hangs down low, real low, under full compression. As in, bend the rear panhard on obstacle departure low. I didn't like it, and immediately changed it out for the MAF 4+ adjustable rod;

2) It is damn near impossible to get it centered. The anchor bolt that goes in midway up the stock mount tends to bend the metal outwards as you torque it down, and that allows the whole thing to shift. I had my axle located perfectly with a hand winch, drilled the hole, tightened it up, and ended up with an axle shift equal to what I started with. So you'll probably need an adjustable anyway (maybe you have one with the 4" kit?);

3) You are lowering roll axis.

The best solution would be to raise the axle end mount about 2.5" - 3" (don't do it too much or your new mount will hit the crossmember on compression). That requires about an hour of fab work, though, but you are raising roll axis, increasing clearance, and keeping a (near) horizontal panhard.

Hope that helps :cheers:


Opinions vary! If I did it again I have no doubt the drop Panhard bracket would go on with the lift! In my opinion it's the only 4+ 80 crap worth using! There is much more stuff that the rocks will hit before they hit the lowered panhard! Check out my rear sway bar for an example! (call it a panhard slider if ya want! :lmao:)

The only thing an extended panhard in the rear will do is let your passenger side tire rub the fender well instead of the drivers side! The inherent twitch when going over things like railroad tracks is also still present because of the criss crossed angled panhards. Also, the roll center increases more with the lift than it does with the lowered frame pivot.

treerootCO
04-21-2008, 03:05 PM
Post the pic of Zartman looking for bolts in the sand UB :D

Uncle Ben
04-21-2008, 03:16 PM
Post the pic of Zartman looking for bolts in the sand UB :D

I still believe thats the reason the control arm drop brackets never interfered with doing tough trails! When the bolts fall out you start to take the weenie route home so no clearance issues! :rolleyes: :lmao::lmao:

FJBen
04-21-2008, 03:19 PM
I'm wanting to raise the mount on the axle. I realize I only have a few inches to work with, but even raising it up a few inches should help...correct? :D

nakman
04-21-2008, 03:24 PM
Nay, I see your points but am having a hard time imagining an obastacle where I'd hit the lowered panhard mount on anything.. since my bumper would have been holding me up even higher. Unless it was some really tall pokey thing in a rock garden, but then I probably deserve what I got coming for taking that line. Regardless of flex, and which side you raise or lower, isn't the panhard always going to be above the axle? :confused:

Uncle Ben
04-21-2008, 04:09 PM
I'm wanting to raise the mount on the axle. I realize I only have a few inches to work with, but even raising it up a few inches should help...correct? :D

Correct....the closer to level you can get the panhard the less you will feel or experience the increasing side travel from it's arc.

Nay
04-21-2008, 04:17 PM
Nay, I see your points but am having a hard time imagining an obastacle where I'd hit the lowered panhard mount on anything.. since my bumper would have been holding me up even higher. Unless it was some really tall pokey thing in a rock garden, but then I probably deserve what I got coming for taking that line. Regardless of flex, and which side you raise or lower, isn't the panhard always going to be above the axle? :confused:

I thought exactly the same thing, which is why I bought one. When I looked at it fully compressed, I was shocked at how low it was. While you don't expect to hit it, if you dragged the housing across a rock there is no question you could. It would be rare, but it would also be a potentially damaging hit.

I wish I had a pic to show you. I haven't adjusted my swaybar for lift, and it sits just behind the axle tube and takes hits all the time. The panhard would only be a couple inches above that.

It may be a non-issue - and somebody who has one and has wheeled the typical CO/UT trails could chime in.

Oh, one other thing. Mine didn't fit, and I got to spend over an hour grinding it to fit in the mount only to have it not line up. Was easily a 2 hour install project.

On the balance, I'd go adjustable and leave it alone, but you have those wide Toyos and that may have reduced your clearances enough that you need it horizontal to both center the axle at ride height and also not rub.

Still, an hour at fab shop and you could use the stock bar and improve other factors. That's probably a lot less painful than hoping MAF can get something right the first time :D

Also, for FWIW, I got that "seat of the wallet" improvement on axle shift, but I have to say on 35" MTs when I went to the MAF 4+ adjustable I couldn't tell any onroad difference. If you take Pythagorus up on his triangle theory and do the math, you find the shift is so small (the length of the new adjusted panhard "C") as to be negligible. Unless of course you have less than .25" tolerance between centered axle and rubbing, in which case it matters. I don't come close to rubbing, so haven't really given it another thought.

Uncle Ben
04-21-2008, 04:30 PM
Still, an hour at fab shop and you could use the stock bar and improve other factors. That's probably a lot less painful than hoping MAF can get something right the first time :D



Now that is the WERD! My PH drop fit perfect and I've had no issues. Trouble is no two vehicles are exactly the same which means what fits one might not fit something else as easily. Only exception to that rule seems to be Christo's stuff.....dang stuff fits perfect everytime....must be some South African Voodoo or sumthin'!

In reference....I have never found any speed bump at any mall that has scratched the paint off my PH drop bracket, but I promice to keep looking! ;) BTW anyone have an extra rear swaybar? Mines looking a little too custom these days!

sleeoffroad
04-21-2008, 04:47 PM
Only exception to that rule seems to be Christo's stuff.....dang stuff fits perfect everytime....must be some South African Voodoo or sumthin'!

Because we use metric tape measures. :D

nakman
04-21-2008, 04:49 PM
Well, shoot. First of all you should know that I tend to fab stuff in metric, so your hour for me is more like 2.54 hours, give or take. And I don't have that time, and even less confidence in MAF now.. I may just pick up the adjustable on the way home.

Nay
04-21-2008, 06:19 PM
If this is about getting it done for CM08 without a bunch of garage time, get the adjustable. You'll want it anyway even if you do the drop later.

I ordered a 4+ front panhard from MAF, and not only did they not press in the spherical joint, but they sent me OME bushings instead of OEM rubber for the axle end. While I really like the idea of taking rubber out of the system on one end for a panhard, having to press in two bushings or send it back is a real PITA.

Now, the drop bracket has less to mess up in terms of shipping it to you, but you won't get any instructions and it won't fit :lmao:

This is a couple bills to Christo that is worth it - although it sure starts looking more like that kit you weren't supposed to get :D

nakman
04-21-2008, 09:07 PM
If this is about getting it done for CM08 without a bunch of garage time, get the adjustable...

This is a couple bills to Christo that is worth it - although it sure starts looking more like that kit you weren't supposed to get :D

My thoughts exactly :o. I bought the adjustable on the way home, it's pretty cold out tonight so I'll try to get it bolted up tomorrow. And hey it's not even the full kit, I already had the extended brake lines :hill:.