PDA

View Full Version : 22R-E Starter


subzali
04-21-2008, 11:15 AM
Is this going to be a pain to change? I've changed my FJ40 starter, late 60s Chevy 327, my dad's FZJ80, but I've never even looked at where the starter is on my red truck. I'm hoping with the 2wd it won't be a pain to get to. I'm thinking NAPA for the starter? Thoughts? I'm going to remove the "dead" one and have them check it just to make sure, get a core charge for it then bring the new one back and swap it in. Hopefully tonight (after my bike ride, I'm way overdue on that).

Uncle Ben
04-21-2008, 11:27 AM
You will know after you get-r-done! :rolleyes:

DaveInDenver
04-21-2008, 11:27 AM
On the 4WD trucks, it's not the worst thing ever, but I dunno on the 2WD. There's a plate on the bottom of the fender, remove that and it's pretty straightforward to get at the bolts. Probably easier than any 'V' configuration and I'd guess on par with a 1FZ because of access around all the junk on the engine. The top fastener is a stud, so you can remove the bottom bolt and the top nut and the starter will hang there until you can roll under and pull it off. I don't think it can be emphasized how nice having that top stud is...

Toyota sells re-man electric parts and that what I put on my truck. It's been a few years since I did the starter, so I don't remember what it cost.

Red_Chili
04-21-2008, 11:33 AM
Do NOT bother to replace the starter. Spend under $20 and get new starter contacts at Burt. The only issue with your starter most likely is worn contacts, while the rotor, stator and bearings are fine.

Disassembly is easier than removing the starter itself. Don't forget to remove the small panel on the passenger wheel well... a friend did, and a hard job became infinitely harder. :lmao:

DaveInDenver
04-21-2008, 11:43 AM
Do NOT bother to replace the starter. Spend under $20 and get new starter contacts at Burt. The only issue with your starter most likely is worn contacts, while the rotor, stator and bearings are fine.

Disassembly is easier than removing the starter itself. Don't forget to remove the small panel on the passenger wheel well... a friend did, and a hard job became infinitely harder. :lmao:
My original starter had bad rotor bushings or something with the armature. It would drag after the motor was heat soaked and lock up. So the first start after sitting overnight was fine, but by about the second stop running errands I would get a click and no turn. Dead starters are almost always the contacts and that's the first thing you should check, but it's not the only reason they fail. In either case, it's got to come off.

subzali
04-21-2008, 11:49 AM
It has worked like normal forever. I started it to go to Castle Rock from my parents' house, no indication of anything wrong. I get over to Checker, dumped my oil, and when I went to start - nothing. I thought the clutch safety was the problem, so I made sure the clutch was pushed in all the way - NADA. So I roll started it because I had to meet my parents in Denver. I parked it on a hill so I could roll start it again, and I checked everything before attempting that again and got the same thing - NADA. I'm going to check the electricals before pulling it, because that just seems weird for it to die with no prior indication. Come to think of it I didn't check it this morning because I assumed I would have to roll start it. I will check it when I get home, but I'm not going to mess with the contacts because they're $30 and for another $70 I have a whole new unit. I don't have the time to mess with it right now, it's my DD and the amount of money I save driving it vs. the 40 this week before heading to Moab is probably a wash with that extra $70, so I might as well get it replaced.

SteveH
04-21-2008, 11:56 AM
On my '89 4x4 4Runner the job royally stunk. I ended up taking the starter out on the pass. side, just above the frame rail (drag it over the frame rail). Remove the wheel and access panel (as described).

Perhaps with a 4x2, it will be a snap - I can't say.

Red_Chili
04-21-2008, 11:59 AM
No, it's not a snap. Same deal. DAMHIK.
The NAPA starter will not be of the same quality, but will *probably* do OK. I would rather rebuild a Toy one myself, personally.

DaveInDenver
04-21-2008, 11:59 AM
As the contacts wear, you'll get very intermittent no starts that get more and more frequent. Then one exceptionally cold night during a heavy snow the starter refuses to engage and you're the last guy in the Loveland parking lot and you think to yourself "Yeah, I probably should have replaced those last summer." You look around at what you realize must be the only perfectly flat parking lot anywhere in the damn Rocky Mountains, such that you can't hope to ever push your truck fast enough through 6" of fresh to pop start it. The Snow Cat guys, after a good laugh (knowing your problem, since they all drive old beat up Toyotas, too), are finally nice enough to offer a tug with the shop truck so that you can start your truck. So, anyway for me, contacts haven't been a sudden failure and gave me plenty of warnings that I ignored...

subzali
04-21-2008, 12:04 PM
Dave, that's kinda what I was thinking. Come to think of it, yesterday was a warmer day than other days recently, and I started it to drive it home to change the oil, started it after changing the oil to check stuff, started it to drive up to the house from the barn, started it after taking a shower and getting ready to go, then tried to start it at Checker, so it had several starts on a somewhat warm day, though there was some space between the last three, like 1/2 hour or slightly more.

So I'm wondering if it's something else like you mentioned at first.

Red_Chili
04-21-2008, 12:21 PM
Always check the battery cables. One method is to turn on the headlights, then crank the starter. If there is no starter action, and the headlights go very dim, it is the battery cable(s) (even if they look OK from the outside). If the headlights stay bright, and no starter action, it most likely is the contacts.

They can and do fail suddenly, though usually they give gradual warning of impending doom.

AxleIke
04-21-2008, 12:29 PM
Huh.

Mine was a snap. 4 foot extension on the front bolt, 6 inch for the rear, off it came. Took about an hour start to finish.

DaveInDenver
04-21-2008, 12:30 PM
When things get hot their resistance increases, it could be contacts. Two things with the contacts, first they wear a groove that's worse on the (+) side (it arcs more when the solenoid kicks) and that means sometimes one contact is hit before the other, which hangs up the plunger and you don't get good contact. Second is corrosion. So when things are cold, there may be enough contact or low enough resistance to work that when hot just won't. It's perfectly possible that you just need contacts.

In my case, I put the thing in the oven and warmed it up (never let a significant other see that and trust me, wear gloves!) and tried it with the battery and jumper cables and could see the starter shaft struggling to spin (the rotor was jumpy). If it was loaded on the engine, pretty sure it wouldn't have turned the engine (even a gerbil filled one) over. But now that I think about that, baking the starter might have not been a good idea, easy to cook the insulation off the windings. Um, yeah.

subzali
04-21-2008, 12:38 PM
Um, yeah. What he said.




:p:




That's pretty funny Dave.

Red_Chili
04-21-2008, 01:21 PM
Dave, you crack me up! You are most definitely an engineer... :lmao:

DaveInDenver
04-21-2008, 01:36 PM
What's the worst that can happen? Gotta try and experiment to see how things work. At least I know a little more now after trying to make starter casserole.

leiniesred
04-21-2008, 02:06 PM
Starter casserole is good.

I like a nice baked alaskan ring gear myself.

Wives don't seem to like it quite as much. You really can't pass the smell of gear oil off as "fishsticks." (trust me)

Tip: Don't use the wife's dishwasher for anything really gooey like knuckle bearings either.

corsair23
04-21-2008, 04:49 PM
Matt,

If it is anything like the 80 series and impact gun (air) will be your friend :)

On mine there is such limited room that I couldn't get a socket to move at all and those bolts were on there good. Amazingly enough there was just enough room to get an impact gun on the front bolt...The air socket would bug the bolt FWIW. Putting it back on and trying to torque the bolts to 29 ft/lbs was a similar exercise in futility and the impact gun came out again.

Red_Chili
04-21-2008, 08:23 PM
Starter casserole is good.

I like a nice baked alaskan ring gear myself.

Wives don't seem to like it quite as much. You really can't pass the smell of gear oil off as "fishsticks." (trust me)

Tip: Don't use the wife's dishwasher for anything really gooey like knuckle bearings either.
I used ours for transmission case. Post-dipped, however, so I was not in dire straights. I did get the stinkeye when I opened the dishwasher however.

subzali
04-21-2008, 08:47 PM
Pretty simple: the small wire on the starter, which is in plastic plug form, worked its way off just enough to not have any contact. I've started it about 10 times in succession after just pushing it back into place and am pretty confident nothing else is going on. 'Twould 'splain the suddenness of it not working too...


:doh: at least I didn't have to pull the starter! :doh:

DaveInDenver
04-22-2008, 05:16 AM
Well there you go, the easiest explanation is usually the right one.