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rover67
05-11-2008, 06:05 PM
after spooling it out today to give myself a tug through some of the bigger snow drifts.... I noticed some damage.

weird because I swear I checked it a month or so ago when I bought the winch.. Bummer. It has several of he smaller kinks that I saw before, but were not near as bad.

what would have caused these kinks? They must've been there from before I got the winch... also, the cable smush happened right where the cable attaches to the drum.... it smushed agains the screw and lug, and actually broke the lug in half...

But now I guess I get the synthetic line from RockStomper..

rover67
05-11-2008, 06:31 PM
should i keep a chunk of the old cable that's good, or just trash the whole thing?

Red_Chili
05-12-2008, 07:26 AM
You can keep a chunk to make into an extension line... but synth is so much easier and lighter, why bother?

rover67
05-12-2008, 08:33 AM
kinda my thoughts too..

RockRunner
05-12-2008, 08:37 AM
I still have my cable and nobody really wants it.

rover67
05-12-2008, 10:31 AM
just bought 125' of the 5/16" line...

kinda excited.

Hulk
05-12-2008, 10:58 AM
Hey winch experts: Are kinks such as these enough to cause line failure on winch cable? The cable on my "new-to-me" winch has a few kinks and mashed spots. I don't think there are any broken wires.

Red_Chili
05-12-2008, 11:02 AM
I'm no expert but I play one on TV.
I would not think so. Broken wires, yes. Not to mention hand skewerage.

rover67
05-12-2008, 11:20 AM
When i bought the winch I saw some smaller kinks in my line, and deemed it OK to use. Well, after going out and winching out of one tough spot yesterday (maxed out the winch near the bottom of the drum) I saw broken wires.

Now, maybe I missed them the first time, but i am pretty sure it was fine since I actually ran my bare hand down the cable to check it twice. figured if I trusted it to not cut my hand it'd be good to go.

So I dunno.

Red_Chili
05-12-2008, 11:41 AM
OUCH!
Don't let Robbie catch you doing that! :lmao:

subzali
05-12-2008, 11:53 AM
Robbie had some good info on the Trail Leader Training day about winch cables. A lot of kinks get formed when spooling a cable onto your winch - sometimes they will come out if you put some tension on the winch cable then tap the cable with a hammer. I think he said broken wires here and there are okay, but if more than 1/4 or 1/3 of the diameter of the cable is cut/broken then it's definitely time to replace it.

Red_Chili
05-12-2008, 11:59 AM
It's just me (and Rudeboy will likely agree in spades that it is just me... where is my OCD medication now? It was just here...) but I would not run a cable with more than a strand or two broken. If strands are breaking what is the condition of the remaining ones? Just too dangerous, potentially, even if you could get away with it. What are the consequences of a broken steel cable?

:eek: :eek: :eek:

A synth line, not so much.

rover67
05-12-2008, 03:03 PM
the guys near my cable while i was winching said they could hear it popping... no doubt those were more strands breaking...

DaveInDenver
05-12-2008, 03:27 PM
I would not run a cable with more than a strand or two broken.
There is certainly some margin, and it might be a lot, built in to the wire rope, but if you didn't need all those strands to achieve a rating then you'd better believe that the manufacturer would not put them there. I'd be suspect if there's more than one wire broken in one strand of the rope or if there's more than a couple in the whole rope. It depends on how many total and all that stuff.

RockRunner
05-12-2008, 04:15 PM
On my old winch I too had broken strands. I checked it carefully one day to make sure I could still use it. When I got to one of the sections that showed a broken strand I dug a little further, inside the cable I found several more strands that had broken. It was on a kink that was caused by me not winding the cable properly pulling out another person. Once I found that section with about 5 broken strands I looked for more, I found several more in kinked area that were hidden from plain sight.

my believe is this, where there is one broken strand there are more, if not now there will be. I am sure you could still pull out some people or yourself for that matter but if you are able to, $$$, replace it I would. For the money you spend on either a new steel or synthetic line it is well worth it.

I got mine from RockStomper before Moab and a tire carrier hinge, can't say enough good things about them and the price was one of the best I have seen. in fact I just ordered another tire carrier hinge from them and some gussets. Guess I need to add them to the good seller list ;-)

My two cents, replace it.

JadeRunner
05-13-2008, 02:02 PM
I've got broken strands and kinks and should replace mine. I assume 125ft. of 5/16th rope for my xdi9000 would be appropriate ($205.00 on the rockstomper site)?

RockRunner
05-13-2008, 03:03 PM
I've got broken strands and kinks and should replace mine. I assume 125ft. of 5/16th rope for my xdi9000 would be appropriate ($205.00 on the rockstomper site)?


That should do the job, nice guys over there too. just got another hinge :D

corsair23
05-13-2008, 03:58 PM
I've got broken strands and kinks and should replace mine. I assume 125ft. of 5/16th rope for my xdi9000 would be appropriate ($205.00 on the rockstomper site)?

Don't forget an extension and possibly even an extra 10' length of the rope "guard" :hill:

I've read UV is one of the bigger damagers to the syn rope and wished I had ordered the extra 10' length of guard at the same time I did the rope. Dang shipping was more than the guard IIRC :eek:. Anyway, when spooled onto the winch one 10' section only covers about 1/2 of the exposed rope. Two lengths and some careful reeling in pretty much insures the rope is entirely covered except for the section on the thimble :thumb:

Not sure, maybe you can just order one longer section of it up front :confused:

Jacket
05-13-2008, 04:09 PM
125' seems a bit long, but maybe its just me. I like the idea of 80' or 100', plus a 40 or 50' extension when needed. That way, you are more likely to spool out enough of your main winch line to get the max pulling power of the winch (for shorter pulls), and then you've got an extension or two if/when you need the extra long pull.

rover67
05-13-2008, 04:54 PM
I got an extra section of rope guard for mine also... and I stuck with the longer rope.

I have an XD9000i and i went with 125' of 5/16" rope FWIW..

quick question... how do I make sure the winch line dosen't damage itself as it reels in over the lug on the left side? my cable actually broke the lug off as it wrapped onto itself...

wesintl
05-13-2008, 04:59 PM
What are the consequences of a broken steel cable?

:eek: :eek: :eek:

A synth line, not so much.

Huh? A steel line only holds a little more energy in it. It doesn't whip around. The consequences are roughly the same, steel or syn, if the line breaks. Cable failing is different than mount points failing.

powderpig
05-13-2008, 05:14 PM
Well that kink or flat spot could be hammered out under tension. Hook the one end on a tree or post or something heavy. Strech out the cable under tension, then with a 4x4 or bigger post that you can put under the cable so it supports it. Then hammer(not a sledge hammer) the cable until it rounds out again. I have done this a couple of time to the TT trucks winches. As for How much it can be damaged. If I remember right, if 20%(or more) of the cable is damaged then it is time to retire the rope. So if the cable is a 7 strand one, that would mean 1.4 big strands have to be busted to meet this requirement. If it is a 13 strand one(smaller strands), then 2.6 strands would need to be busted to meet this requirement. So I think if one full strand was busted on a 7 strand one I would retire it. What I saw in the picture is a single strand of one full strand(ok in my book).
As for the popping and such, this is the cable stretching or elongating or those areas where you have kinks working it self back in shape. I would not think it is stuff breaking unless it is real old cable. Which brings up a whole different subject. If I bought a used winch and did not know the history, I would trash the cable and just put a new one on for my own protection(maintaince).
As for a shorter rope on the drum, I would agree with this. It makes sense in most of the times I have used a winch a shorter rope would have been a better choice. With a syn winch ext to have to have more options when needed.

Uncle Ben
05-13-2008, 05:19 PM
Huh? A steel line only holds a little more energy in it. It doesn't whip around. The consequences are roughly the same, steel or syn, if the line breaks. Cable failing is different than mount points failing.

Steel aircraft cable stores a tremendous amount of energy! Add to that it's weight and failure under stress can be deadly! Synth line stretches very little thus storing up very little energy plus it weighs very little so the worst you'll get is a whip lash.

powderpig
05-13-2008, 05:20 PM
Wes, the damage from a steel line under tension is far more deadly. Syn line does not have the kentic engery build up that Steel does. I have seen a steel line break and come back and break a windshield. I have seen video of steel cable cut and whip back up and over the vechicle that was used, syn rope did nothing but snap and drop back about 10 ft.
Steel is far more dangerous, and that is it one of the reasons why syn is used in compentions, where steel is outlawed.

wesintl
05-13-2008, 05:24 PM
when it fails from a mounting point I agree. When it snaps mid length due to a fray it drops to the ground. Not deadly IMHO. I've seen it more than once. Were not talking aircraft tension though.

Uncle Ben
05-13-2008, 05:35 PM
when it fails from a mounting point I agree. When it snaps mid length due to a fray it drops to the ground. Not deadly IMHO. I've seen it more than once. Were not talking aircraft tension though.

Hmmmm....Good counterpoint....I don't know how factual. I can see your point if the cable breaks slowly as the energy would reduce as each strand broke vrs all at once under load. Personally I don't care! I have always been scared of steel winch cables and now there is a readily available alternative! I couldn't be happier....about that! :rolleyes

Another scary issue that is along the same fear factor as steel cable is "snatch straps" hooked onto tow balls! Nothing like a monstrous powered sling shot throwing a 5lb ball of steel! :eek: http://www.dinicartoons.com/forum/images/smilies/Embarrassed/fear3.gif

rover67
05-13-2008, 06:45 PM
yep, I have no idea the history of the cable.. so when things started to go kinda south it made the decision even easier.

RockRunner
05-14-2008, 11:22 AM
Marco, remember one thing regarding the "rope" when spooled it is smaller than cable. In other words 100' of cable may have 8 layers on your drum, 100' of rope will only have about 6. Not exact numbers but you can check several sites as to the dimensions between the two. One nice thing is you can upgrade the strength of the rope and keep the same length as cable with not much size difference on your drum.

As for the dual sheet I agree whole totally, FJ Ben I think pulled me out of the Escalator last year and his rope only had one sheet, if he had two it would have helped in the beginning where there were two contact points on the rocks. I winched myself out when running Pritchett this year, again two contact points. It is cheap insurance and when one wears out you just move the second one up, order a new one and slip it on. The UV thing is an added bonus.

That is my three cents..............

rover67
05-19-2008, 01:45 PM
yep. I got the line the other day.. in retrospect I probably soulda upgraded the diameter.. but everybody says it's a direct replacement.. if I were to do it again, I'd probably get the next bigger diameter... maybe.

So, how do I make sure the lug on the left hand side of the drum dosen't damage the new winch cable? With ethe old steel cable, the lug actually got snapped in two as the cable rode past it..

corsair23
05-19-2008, 03:33 PM
So, how do I make sure the lug on the left hand side of the drum dosen't damage the new winch cable? With ethe old steel cable, the lug actually got snapped in two as the cable rode past it..

Well, I can tell you that just wrapping the rope on carefully isn't the answer as that is what I did and my rope shows some signs of chaffing from the lug :mad:. I wasn't real impressed with the connection point...Almost like it was an after thought on mine. And, on the snow run the rope actually ripped out of the lug :rant:. That lug, IMO, is nothing more than a electrical cable lug (like for the winch power cable or ground cable) smooshed to retain the rope. The hole is really too big for the winch bolt that holds the lug to the drum. I'm looking for a better alternative when I get around to fixing it....

RockRunner
05-19-2008, 10:51 PM
Seems that all the winches/lines I have seen are about the same. A little lug for 2 gauge wire.

Red_Chili
05-20-2008, 07:26 AM
It just places the end of the rope, doesn't hold anything.

You could try the Red Green method of securing the end.

rover67
05-20-2008, 08:28 AM
I googled after your suggestion and couldn't find the red green method, but did find some people putting another eye on the rope and looping it around the drum choker style.. that lug with sharp edges just scares me sitting right next to all my new rope...

Red_Chili
05-20-2008, 09:16 AM
http://www.redgreen.com/

http://www.3m.com/intl/CA/english/centres/home_leisure/duct_tape/

rover67
05-20-2008, 09:54 AM
nice.... very nice... :rolleyes:

corsair23
05-20-2008, 10:01 AM
http://www.redgreen.com/

http://www.3m.com/intl/CA/english/centres/home_leisure/duct_tape/


:lmao:

That might have been my problem...Looks like on mine they only used electrical tape :eek:....Duct tape is the way to go :thumb:

Red_Chili
05-20-2008, 10:11 AM
Seriously, since there is no strength in the bolted crimp terminal method, duct tape may indeed be perfect.

rover67
05-20-2008, 11:22 AM
yeah, now that I think about it it may be worth trying.

duct tape a fw wraps to the drum and voiala.

Red_Chili
05-20-2008, 11:34 AM
The adhesive may melt a bit in the heat of the winch in certain situations, but you shouldn't unspool that much anyway.