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View Full Version : single brake master cylinder change out to dual reservoir


thenimirra
05-12-2008, 10:51 AM
Hey there, I'm going to start my 1963 FJ40 rebuild by changing out the single brake master cylinder to a dual reservoir and I was wondering if anybody had one lying around in their garage?

treerootCO
05-12-2008, 11:18 AM
I don't but I'll buy your single cylinder parts from you.

Red_Chili
05-12-2008, 12:03 PM
Hmmm... the mods to the stock 40 begin thus...

Can 40" tires and four wheel disks be far behind?
:lmao:

thenimirra
05-12-2008, 12:33 PM
I don't think I understand your response Red Chili. Ige recommended for safety reasons that I change out the single cylinder to a dual one based on the fact that if the single one dies, then I don't have a backup in place. Is this not good advice?

wesintl
05-12-2008, 12:40 PM
oh the horror... I thought you were keeping it stock. I cannot help with this butchery

MDH33
05-12-2008, 12:41 PM
I don't think I understand your response Red Chili. Ige recommended for safety reasons that I change out the single cylinder to a dual one based on the fact that if the single one dies, then I don't have a backup in place. Is this not good advice?


It's great advice. :thumb:

I think Bill is suggesting that as soon as you start wrenching on your rig, you'll discover all sorts of great ways to make it even better. Sort of a never-ending list of modifications.

Red_Chili
05-12-2008, 12:51 PM
I don't think I understand your response Red Chili. Ige recommended for safety reasons that I change out the single cylinder to a dual one based on the fact that if the single one dies, then I don't have a backup in place. Is this not good advice?
I'm just teasing. Any advice Ige gives you is likely very good advice.

Yeah, therein lies the conundrum. Does one keep an all original rig all original, even if the brake master cylinder (which is old itself, and likely pitted) is the kind that - if it fails - could kill you?

Should one keep the original drum brakes that are not very competent when compared to modern disk systems? (flame proof suit on)

Lots of improvements - mostly related to safety, some for competence and comfort - were made through the model years of our vehicles. Make one change and it is no longer 'stock', though it is mostly stock. Where does one stop?

Obviously I didn't stop. Haven't stopped yet. But there is a trade-off for the purist. It is a conundrum.

One possible solution is to make 'period' mods, those which might have been found in the vehicle's era as performance/safety upgrades. I think the hot rodders do this frequently, and still have a classic. But at some point you have an old frame and body and a modern vehicle. That doesn't bother me at all, with vehicles or with architecture for that matter - in fact, I think those are the very coolest vehicles and buildings. The beauty of the old, the function of the new - but not in your face; in fact, well hidden under the skin. VERY cool.

It is a blurry line. It's really clear with an FJ25 (or a Model A?), but then, one would no longer really wheel/drive one of those except on an easy 'road'.

thenimirra
05-12-2008, 12:59 PM
oh the horror... I thought you were keeping it stock. I cannot help with this butchery

I want to keep it as stock as possible, but when Ige told me what could happen should the brakes fail, I think it's more important to be safe on the road while I'm driving. But I'm new to this, and I'm learning. I just trust Ige and when she told me about a member losing control of his brakes and totaling his rig, it scared me.

Red_Chili
05-12-2008, 01:11 PM
As well it should.
Hence, the conundrum. At least use Aisin parts from real cruisers only slightly newer!
FWIW, I think Wes is teasing too... :D

wesintl
05-12-2008, 01:17 PM
not really. I don't see anything wrong with a single cir master.

Red_Chili
05-12-2008, 01:25 PM
From the guy who put a turbo on his otherwise stock classic BJ70... :lmao:
Which is very cool and much improved for it, BTW.

Hulk
05-12-2008, 01:36 PM
It should be said that it's YOUR rig. Do what you feel is right. This may change over time, especially after you get it running and drive it around a bit.

If it's not your daily driver, and you're not trying to turn it into an off-road monster, I think the single cylinder master is fine. You're building more of a "bop-around-town" vehicle, right?

But this is a decision you will want to make: are you building a museum-worthy restoration, or are you building something that will be fun, comfortable and safe that maintains most of the original character of the vehicle. This is the direction that I would go. Nothing wrong with a few creature comforts and equipment upgrades if it makes it more fun to drive. I wouldn't hesitate to swap in some 1976 or newer axles under the old truck to get disc brakes either. I like having good brakes. The brakes on my 40 actually stop quicker than my 80. Makes it fun to drive.

Would I do it to a Model A? No. Would I upgrade the brakes on a 1959 Caddy? Sure. I'm not sure where the line in the sand is drawn for me: somewhere between 1931 and 1959 I guess.

thenimirra
05-12-2008, 01:42 PM
You've got it Hulk....I don't want this to be museum-resto worthy....I want it to be safe and comfortable.

Jethro
05-12-2008, 01:54 PM
Dear Ms. Wheeler,
Your request for a brake master seems to have created a lot of responses, but not much in the way of advice. Ige is right, 30+ year old brake systems aren't as safe as modern ones.

I don't have a spare dual brake master, but I bet some people out there do. All I have is some advice. If/when you get one, you may have to drill holes in the firewall to make it fit (or fab an adapter). You will also have to reroute your brake lines so one line comes up from the rear and another one comes up from the front. The brake lines you have now will more than likely not fit a newer master cylinder. The fittings for a '63 are smaller.

I apologize if you already know all this. I also wish you luck with your project.

Uncle Ben
05-12-2008, 02:06 PM
Dear Mr. Wheeler,
Your request for a brake master seems to have created a lot of responses, but not much in the way of advice. Ige is right, 30+ year old brake systems aren't as safe as modern ones.

I don't have a spare dual brake master, but I bet some people out there do. All I have is some advice. If/when you get one, you may have to drill holes in the firewall to make it fit (or fab an adapter). You will also have to reroute your brake lines so one line comes up from the rear and another one comes up from the front. The brake lines you have now will more than likely not fit a newer master cylinder. The fittings for a '63 are smaller.

I apologize if you already know all this. I also wish you luck with your project.

Mr. Wheeler is actually Ms. Wheeler.....silly boy! :rolleyes: ;)

subzali
05-12-2008, 02:08 PM
Bruce, it's "Ms."

As everyone is kinda saying, you have to draw the line for yourself somewhere. Is a Subaru safer than an FJ40? One could argue yes. Does that mean I'm going to stop driving my 40 and buy a Subaru? No. That's just me.

Here's more advice that Jethro's point brings up: if you are planning on doing modifications try to do as much research as you can to determine what the full scope of the project is. That means asking people (like on here and MUD), searching forum threads for info, and maybe checking out someone else's truck to see what's all going on. Also with the brakes, since we are talking safety, be careful about what you put on your truck. A used master cylinder *might* be pitted and hence good for nothing, but for a little over $200 you will have a new one from Toyota on your workbench. So once you take in the full scope of the project (replacing soft brake lines with stainless steel braided, running new lines with different fittings for the new master cylinder, replacing the frozen wheel cylinders for new OEM, swapping out your front axle for a disc front axle, or whatever your scope ends up including), do a quick reality check on the cost of doing it and then add a percentage for still unseen issues. Making and sticking to a budget is the key to owning vehicles like this; otherwise projects continue on and on and the thing becomes a moneypit fast.

:twocents:

Red_Chili
05-12-2008, 02:12 PM
...Making and sticking to a budget is the key to owning vehicles like this; otherwise projects continue on and on and the thing becomes a moneypit fast.
Ah. So THAT'S where I went wrong.








:lmao:

Uncle Ben
05-12-2008, 02:13 PM
Ah. So THAT'S where I went wrong.








:lmao:

Crap! Where was Subzali and his sound advice back when I had money? :rolleyes: :homer:

thenimirra
05-12-2008, 02:21 PM
Dear Mr. Wheeler,
Your request for a brake master seems to have created a lot of responses, but not much in the way of advice. Ige is right, 30+ year old brake systems aren't as safe as modern ones.

I don't have a spare dual brake master, but I bet some people out there do. All I have is some advice. If/when you get one, you may have to drill holes in the firewall to make it fit (or fab an adapter). You will also have to reroute your brake lines so one line comes up from the rear and another one comes up from the front. The brake lines you have now will more than likely not fit a newer master cylinder. The fittings for a '63 are smaller.

I apologize if you already know all this. I also wish you luck with your project.


great advice thank you. Ige also mentioned something about a possible adapter I would need too. You will have to excuse me when I fudge on the lingo...I'm learning as I go....

Uncle Ben
05-12-2008, 02:24 PM
Dear Mr. Wheeler,
Your request for a brake master seems to have created a lot of responses, but not much in the way of advice. Ige is right, 30+ year old brake systems aren't as safe as modern ones.

I don't have a spare dual brake master, but I bet some people out there do. All I have is some advice. If/when you get one, you may have to drill holes in the firewall to make it fit (or fab an adapter). You will also have to reroute your brake lines so one line comes up from the rear and another one comes up from the front. The brake lines you have now will more than likely not fit a newer master cylinder. The fittings for a '63 are smaller.

I apologize if you already know all this. I also wish you luck with your project.

In addition to the extra line and the fab you will need an appropriate proportioning/residual check valve system.

subzali
05-12-2008, 02:33 PM
I'm learning as I go along :D

But UB I will be returning some of that money you lost to you in the next week or so :thumb: In return for goods of course :D

thenimirra
05-12-2008, 02:37 PM
OK...my head is starting to hurt and I'm shifting into overdrive....

one system at a time fellas....I spent most of Saturday afternoon jotting down notes from Ige. and I don't think my head has recovered yet. I was thinking so hard trying to take it all in that I gave myself a headache.

change out single brake cylinder is all I can handle right now.

subzali
05-12-2008, 02:44 PM
We're just saying that it's probably a little more work than that.

First question would be, "does the dual circuit master have the same bolt pattern as the single circuit master?" If it doesn't (and I don't think it does) then you will have to figure out a way to securely mount it to the firewall.

Second question would be, "since the single circuit master only has one brake line running to it and a dual circuit master has two brake lines to it, how am I going to configure the brake lines so that my new dual circuit master cylinder works properly?" - this is where all the details will start coming up, like the proportioning valve, fitting sizes, replacing soft lines with more sturdy/new units, etc.

Take a look at some of the pages from Specter Off Road (http://www.sor.com/sor/cat014.tam?xax=22923&page%2Ectx=cat014%2Etam) and compare different versions of these things

treerootCO
05-12-2008, 02:57 PM
Can someone prove to me a dual master has anything to do with safety other than it is newer?

There is a single piston and it works on hydraulic pressure. Cut a hole anywhere in the system and it fails! When a single line on my 40 dual master failed, I lost my brakes completely. There was no backup...

The newer systems with dual circuits have built in proportioning valves and check valves to maintain brake pad pressure independently but cannot operate with a loss of hydraulic pressure.

subzali
05-12-2008, 03:01 PM
What your handbrake wasn't a backup? :p:

I don't know the answer to your question, but you have me wondering now too...:confused:

treerootCO
05-12-2008, 03:06 PM
My parking brake is very functional in my 40 and I take pride knowing it works. The little amount of time, money, and effort it takes to fix your parking brake is worth it for added safety for you and those that share the road with you.

subzali
05-12-2008, 03:10 PM
I know - it's a good feeling when your parking brake will lock up your rear tires when you're rolling down the road :thumb:

nuclearlemon
05-12-2008, 03:26 PM
not really. I don't see anything wrong with a single cir master.

i didn't either...butch baker will tell you he argued with my for a half an hour when he found out i had put a new single circuit master on my 45. then i saw these pictures of gene's rig when his failed.

the dual circuit has two pistons, ideally, only one will leak past. the one time i lost a master, i had very little braking, but at least i had some.

nuclearlemon
05-12-2008, 03:28 PM
In addition to the extra line and the fab you will need an appropriate proportioning/residual check valve system.

not proportioning, since it's drums all the way around and the residual valve is inside the master cylinder.

should only need an adapter since she's got the three bolt master and will be going to the four bolt setup.

Uncle Ben
05-12-2008, 03:29 PM
i didn't either...butch baker will tell you he argued with my for a half an hour when he found out i had put a new single circuit master on my 45. then i saw these pictures of gene's rig when his failed.

the dual circuit has two pistons, ideally, only one will leak past. the one time i lost a master, i had very little braking, but at least i had some.

Ahhhhh....so thats how they make 55's! :eek: :lmao::lmao: :Princess::bolt:

treerootCO
05-12-2008, 03:53 PM
http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14273/css/14273_248.htm

Found my answer. The assumption was that the rear drums were adjusted to the point that they would function before the pedal hits the floor.

SteveH
05-12-2008, 04:52 PM
I added a dual circuit master cylinder to my '65 FJ45. I used a 1st gen. minitruck power brake master cylinder, bolted to the firewall, and used manually. Works great and has 'later 'cruiser friendly' fittings. To make the plumbing work, I replaced all the brake lines with '77 (late-model) FJ40 lines and '77 FJ40 axles. Upgrading your '63 FJ40 meaningfully will take a fair amount of replumbing and effort and converting some of the early fittings to late-style (thread pitch and size) fittings.

While my '76 F150 Ford pickup had 'dual circuit' brakes, when I had a leak, the pedal went to the floor and after frantic pumping, I had a small amount of braking action and didn't plow into the cars at the Mexican restaurant. Scared the willies out of me. Sadly, 'dual circuit brakes' (in my experience) don't give you a huge safety margin. I still would either make the upgrade or give your brakes a diligent inspection on a frequent basis.

thenimirra
05-12-2008, 05:41 PM
yes, the frequent inspection and adjusting is something I should get used to doing now.
ohh, those pics are frightening!

DaveInDenver
05-12-2008, 06:04 PM
Badly neglected brakes are unsafe no matter single or dual circuit. Give your current system the once over and that'll go farther to keeping you safe than all the head scratching and what-if planning in the world. Your parking brake is your back-up, so don't neglect that. I think in some ways the old single circuit, all drum brakes were plenty safe in practice since they required you to always be adjusting and checking things. Anyway, that's what I would do, learn how your stock system works, it's a simple system and good to learn on. Ige's advice is good, a dual circuit is better, but it would be nice to understand what all of us are talking about before you start tearing your truck apart.

rover67
05-12-2008, 06:12 PM
I had dual circuit brakes fail on me after a leak on a rear wheel cylinder. who knows how it was supposed to work, but the master cylinder was new, and when the leak happened I lost all breaks.

maybe the shared reservoir is what did the whole shebang in. lost the fluid from one circuit, then the "good" one took on air and was disabled.

who knows.

thenimirra
05-12-2008, 06:17 PM
wow...it's great that so many folks are interested in this and are willing to offer their help! I know that Ige was the first one from the club who spent time with me answering all my annoying newbie questions and patiently waiting while I took notes and lists of what I would need to do to get this project going.

Since this thread has caused such a stir on the board, does that mean I can expect more help from some of you this coming weekend or next when Ige and I get to working in earnest? ;)

I gave Ige lunch and everything! I would do the same for you if you stopped by?

Hulk
05-12-2008, 11:44 PM
Do you have a list of what needs to get done to get your truck on the road?

The more I read this thread, the more I think you should work on getting the existing brake system working. Replacing all the hard lines is an ambitious project, and you will probably need to accumulate parts before you get started.

I would advise approaching your project in this manner:

1. Figure out what isn't working.
2. Fix those items.
3. Register it and drive it.
4. Fix leaks.
5. Start upgrades.

Rzeppa
05-12-2008, 11:53 PM
Matt hit the nail on the head, same advice I would give.

As far as this weekend, I believe I can, PM me with address and phone!

Red_Chili
05-13-2008, 07:58 AM
Regards if and why dual circuit brakes are safer, whether they are 'newer' or not:
The dual circuit system uses a master with two pistons operating two isolated brake systems. They generally share a reservoir for extra brake fluid to make up losses in the system, but from the two pistons to the wheels, they are separate. If one circuit fails due to a wheel cylinder failure or other leak, whether internal or external, which prevents pressure buildup during brake activation, the other circuit will work normally, and though you only have half the brakes, at least you have some.

Even this has limits though. If the leak goes unnoticed and drains the reservoir, in the case of a shared reservoir system as most of us have, there will be no fluid remaining for the good circuit, and it too will fail due to air entering the system which will not permit a pressure buildup and brake activation. It takes a while for all the fluid to drain out of a leak, and checking all fluids with every fill-up should catch it, which is normal maintenance (which few do).

But even well-maintained, well-inspected brake systems can fail. Maintenance and inspection is no 'get out of jail free' card. I have first hand and recent knowledge of this. When hunting this last fall, one cold morning I noticed that the pedal travel went further than normal and my brakes did not seem as effective. Mind you, the Chili normally has the best brakes of any vehicle I have ever owned, and will lock up all four wheels - 35x12.50s no less - with a heavy foot.

That evening we drove into town for a hot dinner, in Minturn. I definitely did not have the brakes I was used to, but the conditions were slick anyway so they were adequate. When we got back to camp, I jammed on the brakes to see what was up - the fronts slid on the ice, the rears just kept turning. I had NO rear brakes.

This was a spooky situation, as I needed to tow the camper back to Denver. The combination of strong front brakes, and trailer brakes, and cautious driving, got me home safely. The rear circuit piston seal in the master cylinder had failed internally, without leaks, while the front piston continued to work normally. The rear piston simply produced no pressure when the pedal was depressed. This failure occurred suddenly and with no warning. It is not unheard of, though with modern master cylinders it tends to be uncommon. With old ones, seeing long service, it is not uncommon at all.

Had this failure occurred with a single circuit brake system, the results would have been catastrophic. Catastrophic failures like this, with resulting death and injury, is why dual circuit brakes were invented in the first place.

For me whether to install a dual circuit master or not, requires no consideration at all. It is a no-brainer. You are doing the right thing, Ms. Wheeler!

Rzeppa
05-14-2008, 11:41 AM
...They generally share a reservoir for extra brake fluid to make up losses in the system, but from the two pistons to the wheels, they are separate.

<snip>

Even this has limits though. If the leak goes unnoticed and drains the reservoir, in the case of a shared reservoir system as most of us have, there will be no fluid remaining for the good circuit, and it too will fail due to air entering the system which will not permit a pressure buildup and brake activation. It takes a while for all the fluid to drain out of a leak, and checking all fluids with every fill-up should catch it, which is normal maintenance (which few do).

Stock dual circuit Land Cruiser brake masters had separate reservoirs until about 1980. I have seen a few aftermarket replacements which have the single reservoir and are intended for those applications, but stock is separate. I suppose the shared reservoir on the later units is for lower cost, and perhaps maintenance convenience.

thenimirra
05-14-2008, 12:01 PM
I agree that it would be better to buy this piece new, so I've emailed a couple of outfitters to see what they may have available.

After I get this piece, then I will invite everyone over for pizza and beer and installing that part.

Red_Chili
05-14-2008, 12:13 PM
Stock dual circuit Land Cruiser brake masters had separate reservoirs until about 1980. I have seen a few aftermarket replacements which have the single reservoir and are intended for those applications, but stock is separate. I suppose the shared reservoir on the later units is for lower cost, and perhaps maintenance convenience.
Dual reservoirs definitely would improve the odds!

thenimirra
05-14-2008, 03:50 PM
rut row....just got through talking with someone with Specter Offroad...he said that it would cost several thousand to try to fit a dual reservoir since when you add up all the other fabrications I would have to do to make it work.

He suggested just doing a complete new brake system with a new single reservoir master, brake showes, lines, and turn drums. And he priced it all out for me too. And they've got it all in stock!

Red_Chili
05-14-2008, 05:19 PM
Perhaps several thousand using his off-the-shelf parts. No way. Talk to Ige.

wesintl
05-14-2008, 06:00 PM
My .02 is getting it running the way it is, baseline everything then start modifications. If the res is empty add fluid and see if the master is still good... same with the wheel cyl.


bill, my diesel isn't close to stock at all. My 64 fj40 is all stock (or dealer installed stock) down to the rust and patina. I've in fact added more stock items to it as well. All the mods like late model hub caps have been reversed. I drive with a single reservoir. Scary I know. Definatly stay off the streets on the weekends. Thats when I drive it.:rolleyes:

corsair23
05-14-2008, 06:01 PM
Perhaps several thousand using his off-the-shelf parts. No way. Talk to Ige.

x2...Did we not warn you about SOR :o

I'm sure there are a LOT of varying opinions on SOR. Personally I have ordered a LOT of stuff from them and have always had great service, they just tend to be on the pricier side of things and shipping cost is always a big unknown. They do tend to be convenient and typically have most of what a 40 owner could be looking for though. My suggestion would be to shop around unless price is not a consideration.

Rzeppa
05-14-2008, 06:11 PM
rut row....just got through talking with someone with Specter Offroad...he said that it would cost several thousand to try to fit a dual reservoir since when you add up all the other fabrications I would have to do to make it work.

He suggested just doing a complete new brake system with a new single reservoir master, brake showes, lines, and turn drums. And he priced it all out for me too. And they've got it all in stock!

As Bill wrote, that would be with SOR's parts and probably a cruiser shop at $80 an hour shop rate. It can be done for far less. See Steve Helmreich's post a couple back, he did the same thing on a similar rig for far less. Other less expensive options include an adapter (I think Warden's used to sell them for around $100), or Mark Whatley's method which is to cut out the affected section of firewall and weld in a section from a doner parts rig.

I'd have to scroll back to read the beginning of this thread to get the answer to my next question, but I've already started this reply so I will ask: "Has the existing brake master cylinder already been diagnosed as faulty?". If not, I would suggest prioritizing testing and inspecting all the major systems and subsystems to make a list of what actually is faulty, then what probably needs maintenence or proactive replacement (like old brake master), then wish list like paint and cosmetics.

I've already PM'd you about coming down to help out; I also promised Timm I'd help him with his 40 project, but have set aside a weekend day this weekend and next for both of you. Let me know.

Rzeppa
05-14-2008, 06:19 PM
x2...Did we not warn you about SOR :o

I'm sure there are a LOT of varying opinions on SOR. Personally I have ordered a LOT of stuff from them and have always had great service, they just tend to be on the pricier side of things and shipping cost is always a big unknown. They do tend to be convenient and typically have most of what a 40 owner could be looking for though. My suggestion would be to shop around unless price is not a consideration.

My experience with SOR is that they have excellent inventory, a super-convenient web site, are super knowledgeable about all things about my old Land Cruisers, Marv and Kay have been wonderful in supporting Cruise Moab, and they are rather on the expensive side of things. But they have a business to run, and have to make a profit. I do not begrudge their prices one iota. If you don't like them, then don't buy from them. But they are an asset to our community and I will continue to buy certain items from them.

Jeff, I love your sig line. I remember when Kipper wrote that and I nearly laughed beer out my nose when I first read that :-)

Hulk
05-14-2008, 06:44 PM
My experience is that the wheel cylinders may be the only thing you'll need to replace. Maybe the brake shoes if they are worn out or grease soaked. People drove for decades with single cylinder systems. If your parking brake is working correctly, you will have some backup.

corsair23
05-15-2008, 02:17 AM
My experience with SOR is that they have excellent inventory, a super-convenient web site, are super knowledgeable about all things about my old Land Cruisers, Marv and Kay have been wonderful in supporting Cruise Moab, and they are rather on the expensive side of things. But they have a business to run, and have to make a profit. I do not begrudge their prices one iota. If you don't like them, then don't buy from them. But they are an asset to our community and I will continue to buy certain items from them.

Agreed Jeff and hopefully I didn't come across any other way :confused:. You just have to be careful is all. I remember when I bought 2 side apron shims and 6 of the little apron pins. Probably cost <$1 to ship via USPS so I called and asked that the items just be put in an envelope. The part's themselves were less than $10 and shipping ended up being almost the same 'cuz they threw in a free printed catalog :eek:. So I don't begrudge SOR's pricing, more their shipping policies/costs :rolleyes:

thenimirra
05-15-2008, 11:33 AM
these are all excellent points. I need to find out what is working and what isn't. I PMed you Jeff and I would love to assist with Timm as well.

daisydog34
05-16-2008, 10:46 PM
Even though you have gotten a lot of responses I thought I would put in my two cents having just completed this mod tonight!

I did my swap on a '68 FJ40 with stock drums in the rear and disk in the front. I ended up using a master from a '98 taco because thats what I had sitting on the shelf. It ended up costing me about $100, but keep in mind that I had the master, and I work in a metal fab shop and can make my own brackets and what not(although I didn't use any :) ) Everybody else has covered brake lines and what not, but I do have two points to make.

1. When I did the install I was curious if the dual circuit system would actually function as one would believe. So I plumbed up the front and bled it, left the back unhooked from the drums and tried the pedal. To my amazement fluid came pouring out the rear, and at about half pedal the front disk grabbed and the pedal came to a halt well before the floor. Because of time issues and needing to work on my other rig I ended up driving it around the house and in and out of the drive way many times with out the rear hooked up all the way. Eventually all the fluid came out of the reservoir for the rear, but up until tonight the front still worked just the way it should. Keep in mind when looking at master cylinders that some appear to be a single reservoir system, thus only giving you minimal braking force until you run out of fluid. Mine looks like it has one reservoir, when in actuality it has two, there is a plastic divider inside the reservoir that converts it to a dual system.

2. This is more for the other guys talking in the thread, but I'm wondering if there will be any problems with a later model master that has a residual valve working with the front drum brakes. I could be stupid, but wouldn't that keep the slave cyls pumped up against the drums wearing out the pads quicker?

FWIW in my opinion I would do this mod, my brakes work soooooo much better now than they did before!

Rzeppa
05-16-2008, 11:23 PM
I ended up driving it around the house

Wow! Awesome house! It must be pretty big! Can I come up there and drive around it some time?

;-)

J/K

Excellent first-hand data point and adds to the collective knowledge!

daisydog34
05-17-2008, 12:12 AM
The house is gargantuian! I have a rock pile in the entry to do poser shots on!

:lmao::lmao:

nuclearlemon
05-17-2008, 01:48 AM
a master for discs will not work on all drums

Rzeppa
05-17-2008, 06:56 PM
a master for discs will not work on all drums

True! You have to move a lot more fluid for drums, especially dual slaves like earlier cruisers!

Shark Bait
05-18-2008, 06:13 PM
BTW, I have most of what you would need to convert to the dual circuit. I'm sure I have part numbers 35, 36 & 76, which go from the master cylinder to the PS frame. I may have #44. I've got a bunch of miscellaneous stuff that I would make you a smoking deal on. :D

http://www.sor.com/shared/image/086D1.gif
http://www.sor.com/shared/image/086D1_b.gif
http://www.sor.com/shared/image/086C3.gif

You could use a mini-truck booster, the bolt pattern is the same. In my '69 FJ55 I just picked a spot on the firewall and made the holes to accept the booster. :D

thenimirra
05-19-2008, 11:29 AM
sounds great Shark Bait..


I got the chance to see what a dual master looks like this weekend when I saw Timm's FJ 55. He has a power booster in there, but I don't think I will have enough room for a booster in my FJ because I've got the oil thingy (I don't know what the word for that is yet) blocking it. I will only have enough room for an adapter and the two reservoirs.

Shark Bait
05-20-2008, 09:05 PM
You can buy a kit (http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/oilfilter.htm) from Man-A-Fre to relocate your oil "thingy". Then you'll have room. :D

Hulk
05-21-2008, 01:40 AM
You can buy a kit (http://http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/oilfilter.htm) from Man-A-Fre to relocate your oil "thingy". Then you'll have room. :D

Here's a link that actually works (http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/oilfilter.htm).

"For those of you with an E-3/69 Land Cruiser, this kit updates the old style canister oil filter to a spin-on cartridge, making oil changes cleaner and easier. This easy bolt-on conversion comes with either our Neoprene super lines or our Steel Braided lines."

http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/parts_pictures/OIL%20FILTER%20CONV.jpg

Wes, is this heresy or do the resto gods smile on such an upgrade?

Rzeppa
05-21-2008, 06:18 PM
The only thing special in this kit is the 68-73 style OEM filter mounting. I probably have one or more that Sheba can have for free. The oil lines aren't that special but do need to be procured.

Wes (or Ige or Chris anyone with pre-68 knowledge) are there holes in the siamese 1BBL intake manifold with which to attach to filter mount, or perhaps the later filter mount for these earlier vintages goes on the fender well or something like that?

wesintl
05-21-2008, 07:43 PM
Wes, is this heresy or do the resto gods smile on such an upgrade?


That gives me a heart attack. I'm now banning myself from this thread to protect myself from seeing any further slaughter.

:rip:


Did you see the fj25 in moab? Did it have a dual master? Did it have a later oil filter? Did phil die on fins? No... it got the sickest rig :guapo:

Hulk
05-22-2008, 01:27 AM
That gives me a heart attack. I'm now banning myself from this thread to protect myself from seeing any further slaughter.

Dude, I want to join your cult. Did I ever tell you about the FJ25 I almost bought in 1998? You need to come out dranking wit me and DaveInDenver soon.

timmbuck2
09-02-2009, 10:41 AM
:risingsun

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I was researching what to do with the brakes on my '65 40 and Ricardo remembered this thread. Awesome info from everyone, Rising Sun ROCKS! I will get my current system baselined and working well before I decide what to do, if anything. Just had to say that Rising Sun has the best people anywhere...


Timm

wesintl
09-02-2009, 10:50 AM
You might check out Dallas' build thread. He used a 97 geo metro booster and master. looks pretty clean

http://forum.ih8mud.com/fj45-owners-club/246134-1963-fj45l-found-restoration-info-thread-5.html#post3988272

timmbuck2
09-02-2009, 11:03 AM
Thanks Wes! I had been following his thread anyway since 45's make me:drool: but I forgot about the Geo master cylinder...