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Romer
06-08-2008, 09:20 PM
Looking for Radio's for the Girls. They will only use it wheeling or on road trips with me. Rachel does go camping and hiking and even climbs some fourteeners.

For a mobile unit, the FT-2800 seems like a good deal. Anyone have the programming SW and cable for it?

Thinking a Hand Held would have more functionality for them both and with the same external antenna as the FT-2800 It would be pretty good and probably do what it needs. Won't have the range of the 65Watt FT-2800 though.

I have heard people on the drive to Moab with the HT's and they have been scratchy. Don't know if they used an extrnal antenna though. Groucho, what did Barb use when she was driving to Moab? Do you know?

Sarah has already told me she will only use it when she is going wheeling with the club.

Hard to beat the FT-2800 for $130 though

nakman
06-08-2008, 09:40 PM
2800's is my vote. Loan Rachel your HT when she goes climbing.. but the rest of the time they need a solid 2m that works and is easy to use.

Romer
06-08-2008, 09:48 PM
2800's is my vote. Loan Rachel your HT when she goes climbing.. but the rest of the time they need a solid 2m that works and is easy to use.

Thats where I was leaning. Found this in an old thread on mud

I just got back from 6 days in Panamint Valley and Death Valley. Using my handheld with a Mirage 35 watt amp and a mag-mount mobile roof antenna I was able to only raise one repeater (Randsburg, Ca.)

The last time I made that trip with a dual band mobile I was able to hit several repeaters. My old mobile could put out 50 watts on high. Maybe the extra wattage was key. It was the same antenna both times.

I wish I had not spent the money on the amp for the handheld, I should have replaced the dead mobile.

There is a direct comparison.

So, anyone have the programming cable and SW for a 2800? Care to program two more Radios?

Groucho
06-08-2008, 10:04 PM
Groucho, what did Barb use when she was driving to Moab? Do you know?

Hard to beat the FT-2800 for $130 though

Barb has a VX-170 with a rubber duckie. She was in her condo listening to all of you during the Moab pre-event runs. She even pretended to monitor the "HAM base station" a few times (even though she was in the condo).

Anyone who just compares a HT with an external amp to a Mobile rig is not giving the full story. Coax, antennas, and even the amp can play big roles in the success of a setup like that. Amps take power to drive them. If he was only putting 1 watt to the amp, it may have been driving 15 watts out. If he had been driving the amp with 5 watts he would have had the full 35 watts output of the amp. Plus, just hooking the HT to the amp and a mag-mount isn't enough. You have to do more tuning to that setup to maximize output. If everything in the setup was goofed up by just slapping it together, he may have been only getting 5 watts out or less even with the amp. With that one should just use the HT by itself. If I were going to buy an HT for hiking, I would get a telescoping antenna, and put the rubber duckie in the junk drawer for emergencies.

Just get the FT-2800. Lend the girls your HT if they need it. Or get them both.

My :twocents:.

Shark Bait
06-08-2008, 10:32 PM
So, anyone have the programming cable and SW for a 2800? Care to program two more Radios?

I have the FTB2800 software and created a file here (http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=7286). You are welcome to it. I'm not planing on bringing my laptop and programming cables to Rubithon, but if we can get together sometime I'd be happy to accommodate you. It's a stripped down version of Dave's 8800 file for 2m only.

Romer
06-09-2008, 07:03 AM
I have the FTB2800 software and created a file here (http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=7286). You are welcome to it. I'm not planing on bringing my laptop and programming cables to Rubithon, but if we can get together sometime I'd be happy to accommodate you. It's a stripped down version of Dave's 8800 file for 2m only.

Thanks Chris. Didn't know you had a 2800.

I wont be needing this at the Rubithon so no hurry.

Romer
06-12-2008, 03:44 PM
Congrats KD0EGS (Rachel) and KD0EGT (Sarah)

nakman
06-12-2008, 03:58 PM
Alright! now on with the vanities..

Romer
07-01-2008, 07:56 PM
I am going to try and experiment with K0DOR (Rachel's Vanity). I am going to get a similar antenna setup as mine and put it on her truck. I then am going to get a Yaesu FT-60 and hook it up to that antenna and we are going to test performance in city and external. We woiuld need more than one HT anyways and this will give me a good idea on the performance.

Then we will likely get a 2M FT2800 for both her and Sarah. Unless the performance of the HT is better than expected.

Romer
07-10-2008, 07:46 AM
So we tried an experiment on Slaughterhouse. I installed the same antenna setup as on my truck.

I then had to run an extension to get from the rear hatch up to the front console.

Rachel and I could communicate well on the trail.


People at the end of the group and Matt Farr who came to the trail head near the end vcould not hear her or she them.

We then put the Rubber duckie on and she was able to communicate with folks at least 1.5 miles away. Obviously, the antenna cable length made the loss to large for that setup to be of use. A magnetic antenna with a shorter cable might work better, but enough to convince me that the mobile unit is the way to go.

I was hoping to be able to get 10 miles distant with that setup on simplex. Could tweak it mabe to get there, but enough of an experiment for me.

corsair23
07-10-2008, 04:46 PM
So we tried an experiment on Slaughterhouse. I installed the same antenna setup as on my truck.

I then had to run an extension to get from the rear hatch up to the front console.



Makes me wonder how successful I'm going to be. I basically did the same thing only with my VX-7R.

I was at HRO buying another extension cable (wasn't sure I could reach with just one) and we were discussing the loss of the various cables (thick, thin) and the connectors. In the end it was decided that I should stick with the thin stuff like the one I had. They said the thin cable would have greater loss than the thicker cable but that the connectors required to go from thin to big and back again would cause more loss in the end than the thin cable would :dunno:

In the end I was able to reach the front without the extension so we'll see. What was obvious on the run yesterday is that the HT's limited transmit power is the real handicap. I could hear Hulk clear as day on my HT but I could NOT reach him when transmitting. It would be nice if Yaesu etc. would offer a HT that was limited to 5W when on battery alone but when plugged in (either AC or DC power) offered higher power. The VX-7R won't even transmit when plugged in though :confused:


I will say this though. The HT hands down beats a mobile mounted CB :thumb:. I could rarely hear Isacc at the front on the CB and even then it was really so low that I could not understand a word he was saying. If I turned the volume up to max on the CB to hear Isacc then I would get blood from the ears whenever Subzali or someone else close transmitted :eek:. With the HT though, I could talk to and hear everyone on the trail :thumb:

subzali
07-10-2008, 07:26 PM
Don't mobile rigs experience the same loss through lines? Is it just not noticeable because they START at 5W rather than top out there? :confused:

Romer
07-10-2008, 07:33 PM
My 7800 main portion is in the back so there is no extra cable. The 4runnner setup had 16 extra feet to go around the molding and then the extension with the connector for the HT ant jack. I could have probably reduced the extension down 6 feet, but based on what I saw I figured why bother.

wesintl
07-10-2008, 08:47 PM
I will say this though. The HT hands down beats a mobile mounted CB :thumb:.

I'm bagging my cb completely. Junk :beer:

Groucho
07-11-2008, 06:41 AM
Don't mobile rigs experience the same loss through lines? Is it just not noticeable because they START at 5W rather than top out there? :confused:

Assuming Romer used RG8X, the loss in dB is 3.7dB over 100'. So for 16' you're talking about .5+/-dB loss. That isn't that much that the range will go from 10 miles to 200 feet.

My assumption is that you have that loss combined with the loss going from an N, a BNC or a SMA connector which themselves have have consistent resistance and low loss, to a PL-259 connector which has high loss and varied resistance on VHF/UHF, and then poor matching from the radio to the antenna. If the radio is not putting out the 50 OHM signal your antenna wants, then there is a mismatch resulting in High SWR and high losses. Keep in mind, HT's are just small radios, and if the radio is not matched to the antenna, most of your signal out gets lost as heat. It is very difficult (without an antenna anlyzer) to determine if the antenna is matched to the radio in these cases. There is no miracle when it comes to HT's and their signal output to the antenna.

My solution? Try using a coax with the appropriate end on it. If your radio has a SMA connector, use a coax with that end on it, and try to connect directly to the antenna that way. Minimize coax length. Or try a telescoping antenna out the window. Bottom line is that HT's were not intended to be used as mobile (vehicular) rigs. They were intended for portable (outside, walking) use.


I'm bagging my cb completely. Junk :beer:

Right on!:thumb:

Romer
07-11-2008, 12:15 PM
Tried to figure out where to mount a 2800 in Rachel's 4runner and its pretty tight.

So, both daughters of romer got 7800's so I could mount the main unit in the back.

Took the cables back to HRO and the guy there said I should not have had those issues that even with that length it should have outperformed the rubber duckie.

This way I know they should always be able to get the distance they need to communicate with others.

Plus I already have all the programming stuff.

Anything else they want and they are on their own.

subzali
07-11-2008, 12:20 PM
...Anything else they want and they are on their own.

Famous last words...

:D

Romer
07-11-2008, 12:37 PM
Famous last words...

:D


yeah, I know that. The lockers and bumper both wanted. I kind of dragged them into this and want them to have quality radios that will last them a long time. I know they will use them on runs and on roadtrips.

corsair23
07-11-2008, 12:47 PM
My assumption is that you have that loss combined with the loss going from an N, a BNC or a SMA connector which themselves have have consistent resistance and low loss, to a PL-259 connector which has high loss and varied resistance on VHF/UHF, and then poor matching from the radio to the antenna....

My solution? Try using a coax with the appropriate end on it. If your radio has a SMA connector, use a coax with that end on it, and try to connect directly to the antenna that way. Minimize coax length...

That is pretty much exactly what the gents at HRO explained to me...Trying to minimize connector changes/adapters was more important than the coax type which is why I settled on the extension (that I ended up not needing) with an SMA connection as opposed to the thicker coax which would have required an adapater from BNC to SMA (IIRC) :thumb:


So, both daughters of romer got 7800's so I could mount the main unit in the back.

So where is mine :confused: - It is not fair that the girls get a 7800 but I don't. You're always spoiling them and forgetting about me :hill:

Romer
07-11-2008, 03:46 PM
So where is mine :confused: - It is not fair that the girls get a 7800 but I don't. You're always spoiling them and forgetting about me :hill:


You wouldn't mow the lawn when I asked:D

corsair23
07-11-2008, 03:59 PM
You wouldn't mow the lawn when I asked:D

Oh sure...Pull out the old "You didn't get your chores done." line :hill:

wesintl
07-11-2008, 04:34 PM
First he gets a bike now he wants a radio...

Bighead
07-11-2008, 04:43 PM
Tried to figure out where to mount a 2800 in Rachel's 4runner and its pretty tight.

So, both daughters of romer got 7800's so I could mount the main unit in the back.

Where do you plan on mounting the 7800 in Rachel's 4Runner? In the right side cargo cubby? I've been looking for a place to mount one in my 4Runner.

Romer
07-11-2008, 06:42 PM
Where do you plan on mounting the 7800 in Rachel's 4Runner? In the right side cargo cubby? I've been looking for a place to mount one in my 4Runner.


We have a set of storage drawers made by IRBIS offroad. I isnatlled the main unit on the backside of the storage unit so it is directly behind the 2nd row seats. Put the seat down and you can see it.

All installed in her 4runner.

Step #6 and then to Sarah's Truck