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View Full Version : one for Treeroot..


nakman
06-11-2008, 10:12 PM
since I know you're a hybrid lover, Billy Bob. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOvp69lnZbA

wesintl
06-11-2008, 10:28 PM
"buy a golf tdi"

Tanglefoot
06-12-2008, 04:31 PM
:bawl::bawl: jeeez

I love my Prius II ...put Prius I's have a spot in my heart as well. What was that dude thinking parking in Billy Bob's spot? Does he have to destroy every car he touches? (That's the same bloke who did the Hilux vid, right?) I might have organized a rescue mission...that was a perfectly good Pri!

And he was quoting gen II stats (badly) and driving a gen I. I'd expect better from an automotive reviewer.

jeeez :rant:

theboomboom
06-12-2008, 07:51 PM
(That's the same bloke who did the Hilux vid, right?)

yes indeed, I <3 top gear

Hulk
06-12-2008, 10:26 PM
...and it's not even bulletproof.

nuclearlemon
06-12-2008, 10:29 PM
is that hugh laurie shooting up the vehicle?

Romer
06-12-2008, 10:41 PM
Thats Funny

So Tim, Your an owner of that vehicle. You agree with the assessment (before Billy Bob)?

Red_Chili
06-12-2008, 11:04 PM
is that hugh laurie shooting up the vehicle?
Looks like him.
I about fell over when I heard Hugh Laurie speaking in his native accent. Couldn't get my head around it. He said speaking with an American accent was more stressful than you might think.

He does seem to pull off the whole American thing pretty well. At least the British stereotype of the American... :lmao:

subzali
06-12-2008, 11:23 PM
I specially concur with Wes.

nakman
06-13-2008, 09:24 AM
So Tim, Your an owner of that vehicle. You agree with the assessment (before Billy Bob)?

The nicest parts of that car have nothing to do with the hybridness.. the touch screen/nav stuff is nice, the hand controls on the steering wheel are sweet, the backup camera is awesome, it rides real nice. We got the highest option package, and the leather is cheap, there's no power seats, no heated seats, no memory seats.. ok I guess they're trying to save on power consumption. The headroom in the backseat is very low, if you sit back there you have to slouch. The far back end is too low for a normal dog, so you have to tip the back seat forward if you expect to haul a golden retriever around, which is tough to do with you've got a car seat all buckled in there, plus then the dog licks the kid.

Oh and the traction control makes the thing downright useless and somewhat scary in the snow- any wheel spin and it force brakes that wheel, so not only is all your momentum shot, but if you start slipping on a corner it slams the brakes for you, making it that much worse. I was a few inches away from the edge of a pretty steep bank back in March driving home, luckily with no brakes and no gas the thing finally caught on enough to make the turn.. but I thought I was going to roll the thing (first time my son ever heard me say "Oh Shi... ") :lmao:


The mileage is 45-50 though, probably a lot like a VW diesel, even the Rabbits from the 80's. We had a '92 Civic that could get over 40 though, so big deal. Toyota blew it with the body style, they should have at least offered a wagon version, similar to a Focus wagon, where a real family could conduct real life- 1 or 2 kids in the back seat, with a dog or a big haul from Costco in the way back. As it is now, once you get the jogging stroller in there the back is full. I'm going to put a good set of snow tires on it this fall, then see how it does for us this winter, combined with a lot of plowing. The mileage is worth it to keep it until fall, but if it doesn't impress us a lot after that, we're going to sell it and get a Honda.

Red_Chili
06-13-2008, 10:05 AM
I've been intrigued by hybrids, but the combination of cradle-to-grave environmental footprint vs. conventional, the nits you pointed out about the accommodations, the cost, wondering what you do with the batteries if you keep a car to 200K before retiring it, and the fact that many conventional cars equal the mileage, pretty much squelches my interest.

Maybe hybrid technology in trucks could bring them back to popularity? Chevy's Tahoe is not that much more efficient than the conventional, that example is not encouraging.

Tanglefoot
06-13-2008, 12:48 PM
Cool Tim, you have one too?

Mine's almost a base model (package 1) and I can't imagine a better car! It's so nice to drive, fits a bunch of stuff, and averages 60 mpg in the summer and 50 mpg in the winter (mixed driving). Mine doesn't have the vehicle stability control so I think it's less scary in the snow--it actually lets you drive. It's my favorite snow car. I took it to the Moffat tunnel for skiing last winter and it did mighty well with the stock tires. The front bumper was plowing the snow betweeen the tiretracks but we made it.

The high enviromental footprint is another myth naysayers dug up. The high-voltage battery is the most environmentally-sensitive part. The famous plant where they're produced has been in operation for decades and Prius batteries are only a small percentage of their product. The plant has been cleaning up its act. And Prius batteries are completely recyclable.

The dog loves it, but it's true, the trunk's a little small for her. I either fold down the seats or let her sit in front. I love how much stuff fits in with the seats folded. I can pile in bikes, and an electric bass and amp fit under the cargo cover with the seats up!

It's a total dreamcar. I don't even look at car ads anymore. The battery replacement is a bad rumor....it's a lifetime part. The Prius taxis in Canada are on their original batteries with 200,000-300,000 on the clock and no decrease in performance. Just the small booting battery needs replacing every 5 years or so, but a $50 motorcycle battery works well for that. The brakes last forever because they're hardly used (regen does everything down to 7mph unless it's a panic stop or ABS kicks in), there's no transmission, starter, alternator, or power steering pump to worry about. The engine timing chain has no replacement interval. It's a super-easy car to own. And the cleanest diesels can't get close to the PZEV and SULEV emissions ratings. ....Aaand it's completely emissions-exempt in Colorado....no more waiting in lines for the sniffer.

DaveInDenver
06-13-2008, 01:47 PM
The high enviromental footprint is another myth naysayers dug up. The high-voltage battery is the most environmentally-sensitive part. The famous plant where they're produced has been in operation for decades and Prius batteries are only a small percentage of their product. The plant has been cleaning up its act. And Prius batteries are completely recyclable.
FYI, the naysers don't like hybrids because Ovonics is basically the sole NiMH battery supplier. They own the patent for NiMH technology and won't let anyone else build large frame batteries. So there's no incentive for them to be particularly environmentally sensitive or market responsive. They say so what, gonna use NiCad? Nope, cadmium is a toxic metal and the batteries need to be treated kindly to have a long life. What about lithium-ion? Well, eventually when it gets cost effective and they figure out a solution to that nasty habit of them blowing up unless they are handled with sufficient care. Practically speaking NiMH is the only viable option and Ovonics knows it. So they are very selective on who gets and the minimum order size for heavy duty batteries. This puts a serious kink in the development because you need to be a big company and commit to huge orders for them to talk to you. Until 2015 (when the NiMH patent expires) that is unlikely to change, either. Most likely is that Ovonics is being squeezed by Chevron (who owns 50% of Ovonics) into not providing significant numbers of NiMH batteries or licenses to other manufacturers primarily to keep the technology from seriously impacting the sale of gas.

Tch2fly
06-13-2008, 02:13 PM
If that guy wants to look at the backside of "buboooon" he is only a mirror away ... never liked him, what a pompass a$$.

My wife drives a Prius, it has been a great car. She went switched from an ES-300 and has no regrets. Has just enough power goodies to be useful but seat memory and the like never saw much use in either of our Lexus(s). Don't have the traction control thankfully. I can't remember which package but it was 4 or 5 to get the upgrade stereo she wanted.
My only real complaint ... no sunroof but all that aerodynamic shape comes at a cost :rolleyes:

It gets upward of 56 mpg in warm weather drops 3-5mpg in the cold.

I don't spend much time in the back seat but my 17 yr old has never complained. The back seat is roomier (leg and headroom) than the ES.

IMO the hybrid system is the best out there, not as impressed with Honda's system. With reasonable attention to driving style you can't get close to the Prius mpg with a standard gas vehicle. If I was looking at Corolla or Civic type econo boxes for commuting I'd rather go with the Prius.
I am not worried about the battieries at this point, I guess we will see:cool:

Red_Chili
06-13-2008, 03:39 PM
The myth:
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~coreyp/hybridenvimp.html
Especially http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Industry-News/Eco-cars-named-and-shamed/?&R=EPI-4031

I am NOT saying hybrids are not a good idea (especially in areas with horrific smog, though PEVs or PHEVs make more sense there), but they are not a panacea. The total environmental footprint mitigates the 'feel-good' aspect.

Here's a thought (courtesy Wiki):
Raw materials shortage

There is an impeding shortage of many rare materials used in the manufacture of hybrid cars [23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle#cite_note-cox-22).
For example, the rare earth element (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_element) dysprosium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysprosium) is required to fabricate many of the advanced electric motors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motors) and battery systems in hybrid propulsion systems [24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle#cite_note-23)[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle#cite_note-cox-22).
However, nearly all the rare earth elements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_elements) in the world come from China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle#cite_note-haxel-24), and many analysts believe that an overall increase in Chinese electronics manufacturing will consume this entire supply by 2012.[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle#cite_note-cox-22) In addition, export quotas on Chinese Rare Earth exports have resulted in a generally shaky supply of those metals [26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle#cite_note-25) [27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle#cite_note-26).
A few non-Chinese sources such as the advanced Hoidas Lake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoidas_Lake) project in northern Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada) as well as Mt Weld (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mt_Weld&action=edit&redlink=1) in Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) are currently under development;[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle#cite_note-27) however it is not known if these sources will be developed before the shortage hits.


These will still use dysprosium I suppose, but are much more efficient and clean (especially if we pursue nuclear power - and yes, nuclear byproducts can and are recycled into byproducts for which there is demand). And your battery manufacturer is outa luck, Dave. Chevron may or may not be doing what you say, but no one has a choke hold:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/green/sns-ap-japan-toyota,0,5214628.story

I would be far more interested in one of these for most of my driving.

Even these would swing the environmental impact significantly to the positive:
http://www.revitalizationonline.com/article.asp?id=2272

DaveInDenver
06-13-2008, 04:54 PM
And your battery manufacturer is outa luck, Dave. Chevron may or may not be doing what you say, but no one has a choke hold
No one can stop the march of technology and I'd bet if Ovonics and/or Texaco, Chevron, etc. are trying to strangle or exploit the hybrid market by mucking with availability of NiMH batteries, all they will end up doing is forcing the advancement of lithium, for example. Still, there is no denying Li-ion has this silly habit of occasionally becoming unstable and that's been a problem for a while. We take a ton of precaution here with monitoring conditions on the batteries during test when we do the very occasional battery maintenance module (it's pretty universally Li-ion now). This industry is probably way more risk adverse in general than other places, but still the problem of them catching fire or exploding is real.