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Red_Chili
06-18-2008, 12:31 PM
Mr. OPEC.

Exciting times for sure:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece

One solution will not make petroleum obsolete. Many alternatives working together will. This will be the next 'bubble boom' for sure, IMHO.

isotel
06-18-2008, 01:52 PM
This will be the next 'bubble boom' for sure, IMHO.

Agreed.

Thats pretty cool, Still I think (Hope) that we will have a larger energy discovery, something that can Capture and use the suns energy in an efficient and safe way..

Corbet
06-18-2008, 02:20 PM
It still takes "fuel" to make this new fuel so why do I feel its too good to be true?

Straw, wood chips, sugarcane. All needs to be grown, and that takes energy. So are they saying they get more energy in the end than needed to produce? Or do we just need to cut down all our trees now to drive a car until they (trees) run out?

I agree that solar energy is most viable long term solution as the sun keeps sending us more of it every day.

Nay
06-18-2008, 05:42 PM
The most viable short term solution is to regulate hedge funds so they stop destabilizing the economy. First they disconnected the fundamentals in the stock market and created a bubble by pooling money and pursuing "alpha returns", and when that crashed the money went into mortgage derivatives (the so called and inaccurately named subprime crisis) creating a second bubble that has now crashed, causing the dollar to fall and pushing the hedge fund money into commodities (oil) creating a superficial current crisis with wide ranging economic impacts.

How many more foundational economic asset classes are we going to allow the super rich to destabilize before we think this just might be a problem? The US has a financial system that is so deregulated that it is now set up to feed off of the economy instead of supporting it.

It will be difficult to find rationale policy points when every 3-4 years another asset class critical to the middle class and the world economy is completely and perhaps permanently destabilized by another hedge fund driven feeding frenzy. This feeding frenzy is what the media refers to quite casually as "speculation" each time it happens instead of referring to it for what it is: profit driven "intention".

Beater
06-18-2008, 06:04 PM
The most viable short term solution is to regulate hedge funds so they stop destabilizing the economy. First they disconnected the fundamentals in the stock market and created a bubble by pooling money and pursuing "alpha returns", and when that crashed the money went into mortgage derivatives (the so called and inaccurately named subprime crisis) creating a second bubble that has now crashed, causing the dollar to fall and pushing the hedge fund money into commodities (oil) creating a superficial current crisis with wide ranging economic impacts.

How many more foundational economic asset classes are we going to allow the super rich to destabilize before we think this just might be a problem? The US has a financial system that is so deregulated that it is now set up to feed off of the economy instead of supporting it.

It will be difficult to find rationale policy points when every 3-4 years another asset class critical to the middle class and the world economy is completely and perhaps permanently destabilized by another hedge fund driven feeding frenzy. This feeding frenzy is what the media refers to quite casually as "speculation" each time it happens instead of referring to it for what it is: profit driven "intention".


you nailed it

Red_Chili
06-19-2008, 07:02 AM
One solution will not make petroleum obsolete. Many alternatives working together will. This will be the next 'bubble boom' for sure, IMHO.
I agree wit alla youse!

It's like speculators just can't live without extreme business cycles. They usually collapse and leave a few of them holding the bag, the smart ones know when to get out. The rest of us deal with the repercussions.

Over-leveraged speculation has been responsible for much suffering by the middle and working classes. Not just beginning with 1929 either.

So I wonder what a collapsing oil bubble will look like? I can't believe prices would drop precipitously. They were artificially low for a long time. I would, however, hate to be the oil executive who inked the agreement for a massive exploration & drilling effort just in time to get bitten.

Southwest Airlines is sitting pretty because they have futures contracts for jet fuel that is the equivalent of $50/bbl. of oil. That is how futures are supposed to work. A bit of a gamble, but for business reasons.

Nay
06-19-2008, 02:00 PM
Hmmm...seems we are on the right track with our "radical" ideas :D

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25267047/

Red_Chili
06-19-2008, 02:23 PM
Hmmm... Dunno about outright banning. Forcing them to put up capital instead of leveraging, on the other hand, to prevent my putting in $2 and manipulating $2000... yep.

Jenny Cruiser
06-19-2008, 02:30 PM
Good post. There is no viable short term regulatory bandaid out there tho. It's going to be some time before things stabilize and the current credit crisis abates enough to ease the global pool of money's worries. It's a good time to be debt free, but that goes without saying.:)


The most viable short term solution is to regulate hedge funds so they stop destabilizing the economy. First they disconnected the fundamentals in the stock market and created a bubble by pooling money and pursuing "alpha returns", and when that crashed the money went into mortgage derivatives (the so called and inaccurately named subprime crisis) creating a second bubble that has now crashed, causing the dollar to fall and pushing the hedge fund money into commodities (oil) creating a superficial current crisis with wide ranging economic impacts.

How many more foundational economic asset classes are we going to allow the super rich to destabilize before we think this just might be a problem? The US has a financial system that is so deregulated that it is now set up to feed off of the economy instead of supporting it.

It will be difficult to find rationale policy points when every 3-4 years another asset class critical to the middle class and the world economy is completely and perhaps permanently destabilized by another hedge fund driven feeding frenzy. This feeding frenzy is what the media refers to quite casually as "speculation" each time it happens instead of referring to it for what it is: profit driven "intention".

Nay
06-19-2008, 07:05 PM
Hmmm... Dunno about outright banning. Forcing them to put up capital instead of leveraging, on the other hand, to prevent my putting in $2 and manipulating $2000... yep.

Sure, that's a good middle ground. Of course, that idea is the same thing as a ban for a hedge fund - it just makes them a bank, which of course we regulate for very good reasons. The FBI is after Bear Stearns employees right now for lending practices - of course we spent billions bailing out this fraudulent company with taxpayer dollars because they are "Too Big To Fail", but "TBTF" is supposed to be the name for a bank, not a bunch of already rich guys.

None of this will save us from the End of Oil, but the only way I think you can support our current financial model is to simply say that sustained long term high prices are the only way to provide incentive to change. The problem is that the US, unlike Europe, is completely built on cheap energy, and we don't have a good Etch a Sketch option to just start over with our sprawling cities, big box stores, and lifestyles that require us to drive everywhere for everything, every day.

Then again, the government is talking about a few hundred billion more debt to send us another "rebate check", and quite frankly, I'd like to go to Moab again in the Fall so let's have at it. If we have $162 billion for Iraq I'll take my $2,400 twice a year, thank you very much.

Red_Chili
06-25-2008, 12:57 PM
Interesting article:
http://www.marketwatch.com (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gas-prices-could-fall-2/story.aspx?guid=%7BD3EC8E90%2DA28A%2D40D2%2D9687%2DDBE0518F6D48%7D&dist=msr_14)