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DaveInDenver
07-10-2008, 08:56 PM
From the "Getting Opinions On 'Does It Matter?' File."

Standard duty set of CS019R springs 3 main + 3 overload. Wanted the CS020R Heavy Duty 4 main + 3 overload, but Ben could not get them as they are backordered and not currently available. So I get OME D6XL extra load leaf to make the CS019R packs into CS020R packs. Same difference to me, no biggie and often done.

So I get Spring #1 done, all looks good. Dave is happy despite spending a ton of money. Go to do Spring #2 and the center hole of the D6XL does not seem to line up right. The leaf doesn't sit in the pack the same way. Photos with descriptions. So, does it matter?

9695
Overall Look

9696
Front of #1

9698
Front of #1

9697
Tail of #1

9699
Tail of #1

DaveInDenver
07-10-2008, 09:02 PM
Now #2. Obviously the center of the spring is off by an inch or so.

9700
Front of #2. See the shoulder, how it's offset forward compared the next leaf up.

9701
Front of #2

9702
Tail of #2. Again, notice the offset.

9703
Tail of #2

AxleIke
07-10-2008, 09:07 PM
Just going to throw out the obvious, as I'm sure its been checked and rechecked.

Since the rears are off set centering pins in the rear of a mini truck (meaning the axle does not sit in the center of the spring), did you make sure you have it in the right way?

Thats what it looks like to me, but I could be wrong.

Other than that, I got nothing.

DaveInDenver
07-10-2008, 09:10 PM
Yeah, Isaac that was what I first thought. But they are oriented right. The front of the leafs have a shoulder and the tails have a taper. Plus if I spin them around they are way off, probably 6 inches.

AxleIke
07-10-2008, 09:11 PM
On second glance, it looks fine. I didn't see the different ends on it the first time, and they all look like they match up correctly.

Nevermind.

AxleIke
07-10-2008, 09:11 PM
Sorry, posted while you were posting.

AxleIke
07-10-2008, 09:14 PM
My vote is "doesn't matter". Its close enough not to interfere with anything.

We'll see what the rest of the penut gallery says.

DaveInDenver
07-10-2008, 09:17 PM
On second glance, it looks fine. I didn't see the different ends on it the first time, and they all look like they match up correctly.

Nevermind.
Oriented right at least, lined up, not so much. The reality is they'll probably work OK. What can I say, sometimes I notice little details and they just really irritate me.

MDH33
07-10-2008, 09:37 PM
You're a perfectionist dude. The guy getting paid 2 cents an hour to drill those probably isn't. ;)

DaveInDenver
07-10-2008, 09:58 PM
Your a perfectionist dude. The guy getting paid 2 cents an hour to drill those probably isn't. ;)
Yeah, I guess.

Another stumbling block I just figured out is the bushings OME sells don't work with the shackles I have. Toyota uses an 18mm frame bolt and 14mm spring bolt (the sleeved ones). The bushings I have from my NWOR springs used those sizes, but these OME springs require 18mm bolts top and bottom on the shackles. So I have to figure out what to do there. For some reason OME does not sell shackles for my truck and they expect you to re-use the old shackles, but they won't work. Weird.

It's like I'm working a on 1970s Ford here, nothing matches what it's supposed to. I just want to go camping.

Hulk
07-10-2008, 10:55 PM
When you had the 2 extra OME D6XL springs sitting in your hand, did you line them up and see if the pin hole was in the same place? They should have been able to nest together, or at minimum, scoot one end of each spring against a wall and look at them.

I tend to "high grade" everything I buy, before I pays my money and before I leave the store.

DaveInDenver
07-11-2008, 05:23 AM
When you had the 2 extra OME D6XL springs sitting in your hand, did you line them up and see if the pin hole was in the same place? They should have been able to nest together, or at minimum, scoot one end of each spring against a wall and look at them.

I tend to "high grade" everything I buy, before I pays my money and before I leave the store.
No, didn't do that. I cut the packaging back a little looking to see if OME included new center pins, but I didn't take the time to cut off all the tape and cardboard.

Red_Chili
07-11-2008, 08:27 AM
Yeah, I guess. Did another long day, then running all the way up to Golden to pick them up, paying a boat load of money and sweating my tail off in a cramped garage all evening, it's just really irritating. It's like no one gives a crap about doing something right anymore. Slap it together and get it out. Even guys you wouldn't expect that from.

Another stumbling block I just figured out is the bushings OME sells don't work with the shackles I have. Toyota uses an 18mm frame bolt and 14mm spring bolt (the sleeved ones). The bushings I have from my NWOR springs used those sizes, but these OME springs require 18mm bolts top and bottom on the shackles. So I have to figure out what to do there. For some reason OME does not sell shackles for my truck and they expect you to re-use the old shackles, but they won't work. Weird.

It's like I'm working a on 1970s Ford here, nothing matches what it's supposed to. I really want a new Tacoma right now, I just want to go camping.

I'm thinking medication may be in order.
Or more beer.


Or less beer... :lmao::lmao::lmao:

Red_Chili
07-11-2008, 08:29 AM
But seriously, that would be the shortcoming of the less expensive OMEs I should think. You cannot expect Alcan quality for a fraction of Alcan price. They will require some mods.

And as you said, the NWOR springs were all lined up. But they broke. I doubt the OMEs will break. If I have to choose...

Hulk
07-11-2008, 08:32 AM
I think you can expect the OME springs to line up correctly. I'd call Ben, or call ARB and ask them. Who replaced Chris Wood?

DaveInDenver
07-11-2008, 08:53 AM
But seriously, that would be the shortcoming of the less expensive OMEs I should think. You cannot expect Alcan quality for a fraction of Alcan price. They will require some mods.

And as you said, the NWOR springs were all lined up. But they broke. I doubt the OMEs will break. If I have to choose...
OME springs aren't exactly cheap price-wise. I'd have liked to go with Alcan but my truck is pretty stripped down and so any time spent on the scales is going to be meaningless.

BTW, I think I've figured out the shackle issue. Marlin's shackles use 18mm bolts top and bottom. I guess most people just leave the sleeve out and use an 18mm bolt in the spring side of the shackle. Makes sense. In the fixed side I think most people leave the 14mm factory bolt in place and use the sleeve. All that is consistent with the bushing OME included. This seems like a model year and/or running production variance. OME can't match down to month/year production and so Ben (and other good OME/ARB dealers) have figured out what sleeve here or different bushing there to use. Like I say, with new shackles I think the kit as packaged will work fine.

DaveInDenver
07-11-2008, 09:10 AM
Oh, that reminds me. My shackles have the bent side plates, like the shackles on the front springs of live axle trucks, just less extreme. Marlin's shackles don't have bent side plates, but use 3/8" thick spacers on each side of the bushing. Is this alright? My initial thought was that was fine, but just throwing it out there, wondering.

http://www.northwestoffroad.com/images/parts/shackle63a.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/images/shackles_rear_500.jpg

Hulk
07-11-2008, 09:54 AM
Oh, that reminds me. My shackles have the bent side plates, like the shackles on the front springs of live axle trucks, just less extreme. Marlin's shackles don't have bent side plates, but use 3/8" thick spacers on each side of the bushing. Is this alright? My initial thought was that was fine, but just throwing it out there, wondering.

Don't see why it would make a difference. It should be stronger, right?

DaveInDenver
07-11-2008, 09:57 AM
Don't see why it would make a difference. It should be stronger, right?
Yeah, not sure if it makes any difference. Seems that as long as the side spacers are the same diameter as the shouldered part of the bushing, then there would be minimal difference in the real world. Should be cheaper to make, that's for sure.

DaveInDenver
07-11-2008, 11:10 AM
Update. The boys at Slee already had it under control.

I hadn't realized it was so late in the morning already, but Christo must have seen the post and Ben called me. ARB is shipping two more D6XL leafs out to lay out against the ones I have. I need to order shackles anyway, so shouldn't be a much of a delay. So I will be sending two of them back and keeping the two that are right. Probably jumped on the punch when they were putting the hole in, who knows.

The question still remains, though. Say Christo and Ben and ARB weren't helpful and you came across this situation, think having the leaf offset like that would matter? Is it really just cosmetic or do the leaf ends need to line up to avoid stressing the pack? The springs have a lot of stress at the ends, right? The way that the tail of the D6XL lines up right under the wrap of the shackle end of the spring, issue or no?

Red_Chili
07-11-2008, 01:13 PM
I wouldn't think so. Great of OME/Slee to step up though!

Regards the shackle, a non-braced shackle will have some side to side slop and will begin to elongate the bolt hole into an oval, which causes more side slop, which causes....
DAMHIK.