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View Full Version : Split case?


IanB
02-08-2006, 10:38 AM
Anyone have a rebuildable split case for sale?

2badfjs
02-08-2006, 11:11 AM
you talk'n a newer 4spd t-case?
i will when i go chevy power train in the 60

jim

IanB
02-08-2006, 11:19 AM
I am hoping for some thing in the next week or so, I want to keep moving on this rebuild.

IanB
02-08-2006, 11:49 AM
Hmm a split case is starting to look like a PITA. I would lose my parking brake and have to rig something and I am going with rear disks.

Rzeppa
02-08-2006, 01:50 PM
T-case mounted parking brakes for split cases are available as a non-USA item.

IanB
02-08-2006, 01:54 PM
T-case mounted parking brakes for split cases are available as a non-USA item.

Interesting, but it would add to the cost of a split case. I am trying to decide which way to go with my drive train now and doing cost/benefit analysis.

Rzeppa
02-08-2006, 02:04 PM
Well, the two main advantages of the split case are that they are stronger, and you can put lower gears in them. You are aware of the differences between the early and late split cases, right?

IanB
02-08-2006, 02:09 PM
You are aware of the differences between the early and late split cases, right?

No, whats the difference?

Rzeppa
02-08-2006, 02:54 PM
If I recall correctly, the cutoff for early versus late is 10/85. The early cases have the 34mm idler shaft, later ones have the beefier 38mm idler shaft. Note that both of these are considerably bigger than the 25mm shaft found in the solid cases. The late cases bolt right up to an H55F five speed and require no driveline mods on a 60 application, the early ones require modification for the 5 speed swap. Not sure, but this may also imply that for an H42 four speed application, you want to use the correct case/tranny vintage.

wesintl
02-08-2006, 03:06 PM
plus 1.99 vs 2.2 gears..

wesintl
02-08-2006, 03:19 PM
OH.. at colorado auto parts there was an fj62 with a split case. They aren't terribly overpriced but they're not as cheap as that other bone yard in aurora( but they don't have cruisers that often)

I know the last 3 60's at colorado auto the tranny and xfer got crushed. :o

Rzeppa
02-08-2006, 03:50 PM
I have seen conflicting information regarding low range gearing in split cases. No doubt, there's different gears, but I am unsure what information is correct. One thing I hadn't heard of was 2.2, I had always heard 2.3 until your post. See Rob Mullen's FAQ (http://www.off-road.com/tlc/faq/trans.html#HD_NM_23). In any case (pun intended), somebody (Marlin?) makes 3:1 gears that can only be put into a split case.

wesintl
02-08-2006, 03:57 PM
well.. 2.2, 2.3, 2.29 splitting hairs..

The only gears i'm aware of are the marks gears http://www.advanceadapters.com/catalog/067.html

Rzeppa
02-08-2006, 04:20 PM
Yep, they's the ones - Marks. I kept think AA, but whenever I think of AA I think of adapters for mating chevy parts with cruiser parts.

Hulk
02-08-2006, 05:00 PM
Those are the gears that I have in my t-case. They are Marks from Australia. I bought them from Man-A-Fre (http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/TransferCaseLowRangeGearSets.htm) (link goes directly to the gear set). They are easy to install, but you do need to clearance the inside of the case a bit.

IanB
02-08-2006, 05:44 PM
For $1400 I might as well go with an Orion.

Uncle Ben
02-08-2006, 07:02 PM
For $1400 I might as well go with an Orion.

You can do the doubler cheaper than anything. $100 bucks will get you a good used GM 203 case. $100 will get you new bearings and gaskets. AA adaptor sourced through Jerry Nichols will be about $650. that will net you 1.9:1 or 2:1 or 3.8:1! (assuming you are using the 4 speed T-case)

IanB
02-09-2006, 07:23 AM
I am not looking for the cheapest solution necesarily, I am looking for good bang for my bucks. Basically I am trying to decide between a ToyBox and an Orion. If I go Toybox my stock t-case becomes a weak link, even with a t-case saver, and the Toybox is specific to the tranny/case you use (2 adapters, one on each side) so I was fishing for the cost of a split case.

If I go Orion I dont have that issue and use a lot of parts out of my existing t-case, but I worry about all the issues I have heard w/ Orions popping out of gear.

Some of my fellow White Trash suggested H55/split case and 4:88's.

I have to decide soon, the frame is painted and springs are on it. I need to drop the drivetrain in to determine my pinion angles so I can finish the axles. Any thoughts?

Rzeppa
02-09-2006, 08:17 AM
You can do the doubler cheaper than anything. $100 bucks will get you a good used GM 203 case. $100 will get you new bearings and gaskets. AA adaptor sourced through Jerry Nichols will be about $650. that will net you 1.9:1 or 2:1 or 3.8:1! (assuming you are using the 4 speed T-case)Will an NP203 even fit in a 40, with a rear driveshaft longer than about 10" and without moving the rear axle back? I guess spring flipping gets a couple inches, and flipping the rear shackle perches gets another 2 or so...

From what I've seen, the NP203 works best in a wagon, where you have a lot more rear driveshaft length to work with.

Personally I really like the H55F, but H42/orion would work pretty well too I think and would be the least mods.

treerootCO
02-09-2006, 08:48 AM
The more I wheel it, the stock 4-speed with it's buttery smooth shifting would have been a better choice than the Sm465. The Orion is low enough that Low, or 1st depending how you look at it, is low enough. I will admit though, I haven't wheeled with the crazy double transfer guys so maybe I am missing what stupid low can do.

That would be a good bumper sticker, "What can stupid low do for you?" :)

IanB
02-09-2006, 09:31 AM
Yeah I am a big fan of Toyota engineering and so an SM420/465 is not an option, I like my tranny. An H55 is an option I am considering.

With a 4.70 Toybox and my stock set up Marlin tells me I would have 183:1 total. Its basically a bolt on between my tranny an t-case, and I have never heard of them popping out of gear. This is why I keep coming back to the Toybox.

wesintl
02-09-2006, 09:51 AM
Dude.. clutches are cheaper and it's way more fun to listen to a motor scream

:lmao :lmao :lmao



Ok, back to your regular programming :hill:

Uncle Ben
02-09-2006, 10:30 AM
Jeff, You are correct....with a double case the rear axle must be moved back. Ian is doing FJ-55 rear springs so that has been done.

I personally love double cases. With lower gears in only one case you lose wheel speed in mud and snow unless you have a lot more enhanced power :fing: on tap under the hood so you can use higher gears or even high range. a double case gives you 4 ranges to play with (H, TL1, TL2, TL1TL2). Treeroots awesome :bowdown: 40 is a great example as it is incredible on the rocks and climbing but even with 4 chains it can't reach dirt at the bottom of the snow and there is no gear that will allow speed and enough torque to "float and paddle." Obviously as Jeff pointed out, the trade off with two cases is the short rear shaft and the long front shaft.
Everything is a trade off. You just have to weigh those trade offs and find the medium that works for what you need to do. No easy answer but at least there are options these days!

Uncle Ben
02-09-2006, 10:42 AM
Dude.. clutches are cheaper and it's way more fun to listen to a motor scream

:lmao :lmao :lmao



Ok, back to your regular programming :hill:


I always thought they should offer clutches in differant scents! :lmao

Slipping clutches is a way to cheat to get you up the hill but your at the mercy of the brakes to get ya back down. I use first/low in Wild Rice more for controlled decents than climbing unless it's Cruiser size rocks. Second/low is low enough for most crawling. :cool:

IanB
02-09-2006, 10:47 AM
Yes I have a longer wheelbase, reversed 40 springs though as 55 springs are getting rare, so these will be easy to replace. If I go double t-case I won't lose that much driveshaft. I will probably sink the $ into a good rear driveshaft anyway (cv's?)

Kevin is right about another thing too, part of the attraction of a Toybox is that when not engaged I have a stock drivetrain. Since I don't have a tow rig and don't want one the 40 has to be drivable to the trailhead. My primary concern is sinkin $2k into a Toybox that fits my one piece t-case only to have the t-case break. Hence the original reason behind this thread, pricing a split case to go ahead an upgrade to that now. Since the Toybox has an adapter plate on each side I don't have to worry about t-case/tranny compatibility.

The more I read and think about it the more I am leaning towards a Toybox. If I can find a reasonably priced split case I will probably order one (Toybox).

IanB
02-09-2006, 10:49 AM
As far as clutches go i have already smoked one badly and still haven't heard the end of it so I am done :hill:

treerootCO
02-09-2006, 12:58 PM
I forgot I have an 83 parts 60 in the backyard. Would that split case work for you? I believe it has the bigger idler but I'll have to check. Make me an offer :)

IanB
02-09-2006, 01:20 PM
Oh cool, I want it. I have no idea what a fair price is, do you?

Uncle Ben
02-09-2006, 03:13 PM
I have an '85 also so it looks like you have choices out the kazoo! ;)

wesintl
02-09-2006, 03:22 PM
I believe 4/85 + has a 38mm idler the early split cases have a 34.

:blah: :blah: :blah: :cheers:

Rzeppa
02-09-2006, 07:29 PM
I consulted with BVB last night about this, and the majic cutoff build date was 5/85 for "early" versus "later" split cases.

IanB
02-10-2006, 08:54 AM
T-case mounted parking brakes for split cases are available as a non-USA item.

Is this an item I can add to a USA case?

wesintl
02-10-2006, 09:33 AM
Spector has drum style
http://www.sor.com/sor/cat076.tam?xax=20273&anchor=#076-15D-KIT

There is another kit out there that uses a disc, I forget who. I vaugly remember not reading great things about the disc ebrake. I'm sure it's probably on mud somewhere...

IanB
02-10-2006, 10:37 AM
Holy crap, $455!

A split case is looking like a very expensive option. I wonder if I should just take a chance on the stock case and a t-case saver?

Hulk
02-10-2006, 01:14 PM
Jeff, You are correct....with a double case the rear axle must be moved back. Ian is doing FJ-55 rear springs so that has been done.
Obviously as Jeff pointed out, the trade off with two cases is the short rear shaft and the long front shaft.
Everything is a trade off. You just have to weigh those trade offs and find the medium that works for what you need to do. No easy answer but at least there are options these days!

If I had known that I could simply flip the rear springs around and gain enough drive shaft length to install a Toybox, I probably would have gone this direction. The 3:1 gears have slowed me down, but I'd still like to have a lower crawl ratio. Joe Calleja said last year, "I've never seen anyone come down High Dive quite as fast as you just did."

I still have the 3.70s in my diffs, which I'd like to keep -- I love being able to do 80 mph on the highway in my FJ40. A ToyBox would be the perfect solution. Maybe someday, when I write that best selling novel....

bustanutley
02-22-2006, 09:42 PM
dude, ian, why don't you just get the rear brakes off an fj60 and use the wheel style parking brake? I could hook my axle up if I felt the need. I'm pretty sure it should just bolt up. Or convert to rear disc, I think there is an option for the eldo calipers for a parking brake.

Rzeppa
02-28-2006, 08:32 PM
There is a 60 split case/tranny F/S on the LCML today, $200 IIRC. I'll post up detail if you're still interested.

IanB
03-01-2006, 05:00 AM
There is a 60 split case/tranny F/S on the LCML today, $200 IIRC. I'll post up detail if you're still interested.

I have already tentatively committed to buying Uncle Bens, if he ever gets aorund to picking up the 60 :lmao: :D :hill: :beer:

Uncle Ben
03-01-2006, 07:12 AM
I have already tentatively committed to buying Uncle Bens, if he ever gets aorund to picking up the 60 :lmao: :D :hill: :beer:

That is funny. These weeks blend into days right now....I'm sorry. Wanna rusted 60 at your house for a couple weeks? ;) :flamingo: :flamingo: :hill:

IanB
03-01-2006, 09:00 AM
Wanna rusted 60 at your house for a couple weeks? ;) :flamingo: :flamingo: :hill:

Sure, the neighbors all hate me now so there is nothing left to lose... :hill:

Uncle Ben
03-01-2006, 10:07 AM
Sure, the neighbors all hate me now so there is nothing left to lose... :hill:

Gotta keep up that Elwood Chapter status! :flamingo: :flamingo: :flamingo: :hill:

IanB
03-21-2006, 07:27 PM
TTT! :thumb:

Plan A may not work out so I am again looking for a split case and now a tranny too, preferably 5/85 or later. :drink: :hill: :bowdown: :beer: :flamingo:

Uncle Ben
03-21-2006, 08:03 PM
TTT! :thumb:

Plan A may not work out so I am again looking for a split case and now a tranny too, preferably 5/85 or later. :drink: :hill: :bowdown: :beer: :flamingo:


Are you giving up on me? :hill: :confused:

IanB
03-21-2006, 08:17 PM
Are you giving up on me? :hill: :confused:

Never! Ok maybe :lmao:

Seriously though I need to order the Toybox but don't want to do so until I have the new (to me) tranny/t-case in hand. Im in town tommorow if you want to try and tow that rig, after that Im on the east coast. :(