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View Full Version : Assault near Jenny Lake


Tch2fly
08-11-2008, 12:32 PM
Teens suspected of Jenny Lake assault (http://www.timescall.com/news_story.asp?ID=10512)

jeeeeezzzz :(

RockRunner
08-11-2008, 01:09 PM
That is just wrong, I hate to see this kind thing.

Red_Chili
08-11-2008, 01:21 PM
...two neighboring camps began arguing over the way Richards was using a shotgun while target shooting. The argument soon built into a fight, West said, though no weapons were used, including the shotgun.
The kids' stones were bigger than their brains.

I might have had an issue with someone firing a shotgun near camp too, but I would have handled it differently. And not including my 44 Mag.

Ron Helmuth
08-15-2008, 08:37 AM
never heard anything about this in the Denver press. Seems odd.

Maddmatt
08-15-2008, 09:30 AM
Kids probably had ATV's along too. :D

Seriously, this is why I 1) hate people and 2) tend to avoid confrontation when people are being idiots. Back to planning my fence.......

Beater
08-15-2008, 09:51 AM
who the hell "target shoots" with a shotgun in a camping area?????

Man I tell ya. I know this is a testy subject, but I just taught my 12 yr old how to shoot this weekend with a .22, into a hillside, in a remote area, where we policed what lead we could, along with the brass.... If I even thought I heard another vehicle/person in the distance, we ceased ops...

Just so you know I am not completely anti gun ownership, HOWEVER... stupidity is another subject all together..


jeez

Red_Chili
08-15-2008, 12:21 PM
The very best way to ensure gun safety with youth is to train them to become intimately familiar with firearms, including handguns. Solid statistics behind that one. It's the ones who discover them on their own who are a danger to themselves and others. :eek: And you cannot control what they discover on their own. You don't want the excitement of the forbidden to come into play, nossir.

And those are the ones who grow up to shoot off shotguns in camp, the way I figger.

DaveInDenver
08-15-2008, 12:37 PM
who the hell "target shoots" with a shotgun in a camping area????
The specifics of the incident have been surely glossed over, but I don't see anything wrong fundamentally about taking your shotgun out camping with you and shooting it. You have to practice with it some place. He may have been perfectly safe in his target shooting and just ticked the guy off with the noise. Since the gun owner didn't appear to have injected a gun into the argument, I do have the feeling that he might be somewhat responsible and probably not drunk or something.

MDH33
08-15-2008, 12:55 PM
Shooting of any kind in an area with other people camping nearby is inappropriate.

DaveInDenver
08-15-2008, 01:39 PM
Shooting of any kind in an area with other people camping nearby is inappropriate.
Depends on how close camps are I suppose. You can hear gun fire a long way away and still be perfectly safe. Happens all the time up near Wellington Lake and Buffalo Creek. You hear people shooting on the USFS land to the northwest and there is nothing illegal or unsafe about the situation. But I've had a number of people express concern to me when riding a patrol. So it's entirely possible this guy was being safe and the confrontation got outta hand. OTOH, going up to Jenny Lake on a weekend is not showing very good judgement as to picking a potentially safe place to shoot.

FWIW, the USFS rules and regulations.

Shooting is allowed on National Forest System Land providing,

It does not create a public hazard or serve as a direct threat to public safety.
It does not damage or destroy natural features such as plants, historic features or property.
It does not create litter; refuse accumulation and abandoned personal property.
It does not violate an existing restriction or closure.

36 CFR 261.10

d. Discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury, or damaging property as follows:

1. In or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area.
2. Across or on a National Forest System road or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge.
3. Into or within any cave.

Red_Chili
08-15-2008, 01:42 PM
36 CFR 261.10

d. Discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury, or damaging property as follows:

1. In or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area.
2. Across or on a National Forest System road or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge.
3. Into or within any cave.
It is easy to assume in the Jenny Creek area, given the concentrated usage, that the guy violated at least two of the above. It was inappropriate, and citable.

Assaulting a guy with a shotgun who has already demonstrated irresponsibility, however, is merely stupid.

MDH33
08-15-2008, 01:47 PM
It is easy to assume in the Jenny Creek area, given the concentrated usage, that the guy violated at least two of the above. It was inappropriate, and citable.

Assaulting a guy with a shotgun who has already demonstrated irresponsibility, however, is merely stupid.

Well said. :thumb:

DaveInDenver
08-15-2008, 01:49 PM
It is easy to assume in the Jenny Creek area, given the concentrated usage, that the guy violated at least two of the above. It was inappropriate, and citable.

Assaulting a guy with a shotgun who has already demonstrated irresponsibility, however, is merely stupid.
Heading up there to shoot on a weekend is showing poor judgement, no doubt. But I would not automatically assume he was explicitly breaking any laws. It's possible he was being safe, 150 yards from the road and lake, sufficient back stop, scouted the immediate area, etc., but these kids heard the gun shots and sought him out, to harass the evil gun owner. They demonstrated their intent by throwing rocks at the guy rather than just calling the ranger or sheriff.

Red_Chili
08-15-2008, 01:49 PM
Thanks, except I meant to say Jenny Lake area. It's like a subdivision up there.

Red_Chili
08-15-2008, 01:53 PM
Heading up there to shoot on a weekend is showing poor judgement, no doubt. But I would not automatically assume he was explicitly breaking any laws. It's possible he was being safe, 150 yards from the road and lake, sufficient back stop, scouted the immediate area, etc., but these kids heard the gun shots and sought him out, to harass the evil gun owner.
I'm a card-carrying NRA member and multiple gun owner (and undoubtedly paranoid about real or perceived assaults upon our Second Amendment rights - in the minds of some) who enjoys shooting in the woods and who will not shrink from doing so, and I find this unlikely... but I don't think it is POSSIBLE to be 150 yards away from anything right there, at Jenny Lake.

DaveInDenver
08-15-2008, 02:11 PM
I'm a card-carrying NRA member and multiple gun owner (and undoubtedly paranoid about real or perceived assaults upon our Second Amendment rights - in the minds of some) who enjoys shooting in the woods and who will not shrink from doing so, and I find this unlikely... but I don't think it is POSSIBLE to be 150 yards away from anything right there, at Jenny Lake.Dunno, you're probably right. It does say he drove himself down to Tolland after being beaten bad enough to need medivac, so I doubt he was all that far from pavement and so I'd be a little surprised if he was really as far up as Jenny Lake. Maybe Forest Lake or that drainage? It so hard to actually get away from people on the weekends that I could envision this same situation just about anywhere under 2 hours from the I-25 corridor.

Beater
08-15-2008, 02:14 PM
guys - remember, jenny lake is the upper lake around the bend from yankee doodle. NOT much choice on where to shoot. the entire camping area around that lake is less than 150 yds in diameter

Red_Chili
08-15-2008, 02:21 PM
Exactly my point. Yep.

DaveInDenver
08-15-2008, 02:35 PM
guys - remember, jenny lake is the upper lake around the bend from yankee doodle. NOT much choice on where to shoot. the entire camping area around that lake is less than 150 yds in diameter
That's right, if Jenny Lake is 150 yards from the road, I'd be surprised. I also have a feeling the details are not rigorously flushed, so all of this is barely conjecture. There were at least two camps and I have my doubts they'd both have been set up that close to the lake itself.

Caribou Sandstorm
08-15-2008, 03:59 PM
You know I had to say something...

"like can I have some beans with that buck shot."

The problem here are those damb energy drinks these kids are drinking now adays....Mr was minding his own business, squeezing off a few rounds, granted 10 yards away and these kids were all hopped up on monster or red bull...That stuff should be outlawed...Just kidding...

What ever happened to.."He bro?" "What?" "Dude, over there is loading his shot gun for another round, lets go find a quieter camp site..."

vs. Dude is loading mre rounds, lets go beat the crap out of him???

I am guessing there is more to the story, like loud heavy metal music...