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subzali
08-20-2008, 02:06 PM
A couple people lately have made a comment to the effect of..."...but you know my feelings towards (against) engineers, so..."

I don't understand? What's wrong with engineers that people don't like them? Help? :confused:

MDH33
08-20-2008, 02:19 PM
Yup, right up there with politicians. ;)

Rezarf
08-20-2008, 02:25 PM
How can you tell if an engineer is extroverted or introverted?




















































An extroverted engineer looks at your shoes... :lmao:

Rezarf
08-20-2008, 02:26 PM
Seriously, engineers and smart, get paid well, and do cool stuff... I can see why people get upset with them... :rolleyes:

nakman
08-20-2008, 02:29 PM
must be a jealousy thing. I love engineers, especially mechanical ones.

Romer
08-20-2008, 02:43 PM
I wanna work at whatever magical fairyland that might be.

If only you were willing to work in the Springs:D

Beater
08-20-2008, 02:44 PM
do we have to have this discussion AGAIN?

yesterday I couldn't spell in ga near, now I are one?:bolt:

Groucho
08-20-2008, 02:45 PM
I wanna work at whatever magical fairyland that might be.

It is the same fairyland where those bolts to fit in a part with holes that don't line up, where you don't have to use the check systems to see if you have collisions in assemblies, and where you know better than the manufacturer about tolerances, thicknesses, and you sure as h-e- double hockey sticks know better as to what captive fastener will fit in a part no matter what the manufacturer says about it.

I have gone to the gates, my friend, and its a looney bin inside...

powderpig
08-20-2008, 03:24 PM
There was a story told to me a long long time ago. It was when man was first starting to make things. There was this mechanic and engineer that worked together real well. The engineer had a beautiful wife. The wife had a fancy for the mechanic. The wife and the mechanic got it on, the engineer found out. The wife had a thing for the mechanic hands and how they worked on her. Well after getting caught, the engineer made stuff that was harder to work on for the mechanic. The mechanic and the engineer never got along after that. Moral, the mechanic got a couple of good screws and the engineer has been screwing the mechanic for a long time. :thumb:
As time goes on, the stuff get passed on down the family line(back then kids followed in the foot steps of the parents). And today, we have engineers that do not have that much practical experience making things that are hard for people that repair them to work on. nothing against the person, just how stuff is designed.
Some of the best engineers have more then a degree, they have practical experience in the field. IMHO Nothing against you, I like you Matt

AxleIke
08-20-2008, 03:30 PM
I don't have a problem with all engineers.

Just the ones who've never touched a wrench/bolt/wire/circuit in their life.

For example, when one opens up the hood of a new car, and finds that the oil filter is actually UNDER the left bank, and facing upward, and the front suspension, battery, and every other component you can think of is IN THE WAY of you reaching the oil filter, you wish you could walk up to the engineer and slap him.

Or, when you are working on a broken piece of equipment at work, and you open up the guts, and you find that the engineers put a 5A fuse on a circuit that is drawing 4.90 to 4.95A constantly, and right behind the fuse is a small DAC that can't handle any more than 5 amps. So, you blow a fuse all the time, and you can't jump to the next amperage, because you'll fry components, but when you get online and look at a data sheet, there is a 7amp rated DAC with the same characteristics. So you wait a week for that new DAC to come in, spend hours pouring over the schematics trying to make sure there aren't any other components with possible, issue, and then you put in a 6.3A fuse. Makes you want to slap the engineer again.

Uncle Ben
08-20-2008, 03:41 PM
I don't have a problem with all engineers.

Just the ones who've never touched a wrench/bolt/wire/circuit in their life.

For example, when one opens up the hood of a new car, and finds that the oil filter is actually UNDER the left bank, and facing upward, and the front suspension, battery, and every other component you can think of is IN THE WAY of you reaching the oil filter, you wish you could walk up to the engineer and slap him.

Or, when you are working on a broken piece of equipment at work, and you open up the guts, and you find that the engineers put a 5A fuse on a circuit that is drawing 4.90 to 4.95A constantly, and right behind the fuse is a small DAC that can't handle any more than 5 amps. So, you blow a fuse all the time, and you can't jump to the next amperage, because you'll fry components, but when you get online and look at a data sheet, there is a 7amp rated DAC with the same characteristics. So you wait a week for that new DAC to come in, spend hours pouring over the schematics trying to make sure there aren't any other components with possible, issue, and then you put in a 6.3A fuse. Makes you want to slap the engineer again.


I avoided the thread but I have to give kudos to Isaac for reading my thoughts! Nothing wrong with an engineer as long as there is more than books and degrees behind their thinking!

Uncle Ben
08-20-2008, 03:52 PM
;)

Three engineers and three accountants are traveling by train to a conference. At the station, the three accountants each buy a ticket and watch as the three engineers only buy one ticket.

"How are three people going to travel on only one ticket?" asks an accountant.

"Watch and you'll see," answered an engineer.

They all board the train. The accountants take their respective seats but all three engineers cram into a rest room and close the door behind them.

Shortly after the train has departed, the conductor comes around collecting tickets. He knocks on the restroom door and says, "Tickets, please!" The door opens just a crack and a single arm emerges with a ticket in hand. The conductor takes it and moves on.

The accountants see this and agree it is a clever idea. So after the conference, the accountants decide to copy the engineers on the return trip and save some money.

When they get to the station, they buy one ticket for the return trip. To their astonishment, the engineers don't buy a ticket at all.

"How are you going to travel without a ticket?" says one perplexed accountant.

"Watch and you'll see," answered an engineer.

When they board the train all three accountants cram into a restroom and the three engineers cram into another one nearby. The train departs.

Shortly afterward, one of the engineers leaves his restroom and walks over to the restroom where the accountants are hiding. He knocks on the door and says, "Tickets, please!"

nakman
08-20-2008, 03:55 PM
7. A man owns a house and 3.7 acres of land in a hollow with an average slope of 15%. The man has 5 children. Can each of the children place a mobile home on the man's land?


No way, that's my house!!! Except I don't have as many kids, or trailers.

subzali
08-20-2008, 03:55 PM
Well there was a reason I brought this up (kinda): I'm a year into my engineering career, and I want to know what people hate about engineers so that I can do my best to try and not follow in the same path. I worked in a machinery design office for a couple summers, hand in hand with machinists, and that taught me a lot about how to make sure things are buildable; not just look good on paper. The industry I'm in right now is a little different, but the same principles apply.

I've tried to glean as much forethought and practical knowledge as I've been able to by working on cars, doing woodworking, basically using my hands to disassemble and assemble things. Hoping to do some metalwork so I can get some experience with that too. I've seen pictures of my dad standing inside a structure they were building, gloves on, epoxy and fiberglass everywhere laying up some cloth for the structure; I know his engineering job isn't boring and he gets his hands dirty too, so those comments have always confused me.

Basically this is the worlds' chance (and especially for those that don't like engineers) to give me input, to train my mind to think like a machinist/technician/whatever so that (presumably) I can be a better engineer! Changing the world one person at a time! :thumb:

Uncle Ben
08-20-2008, 04:00 PM
. . . your friends find it's easier to understand Yota in Starwars easier than when you talk about your soldering iron. :rolleyes: :p:

. . . you have no life and can prove it mathematically.

. . . you enjoy pain.

. . . you know vector calculus but you can’t remember how to do long division.

. . . you chuckle whenever anyone says “centrifugal force.”

. . . you’ve actually ever used every single function on your graphing calculator.

. . . when you look in the mirror, you see an engineering major.

. . . it is sunny and 70 degrees outside, and you are working on a computer.

. . . you frequently whistle the theme song to “MacGyver.”

. . . you always do homework on Friday nights.

. . . you know how to integrate a chicken and can take the derivative of water.

. . . you think in “math.”

. . . you’ve calculated that the World Series actually diverges.

. . . you hesitate to look at something because you don’t want to break down its wave function.

. . . you have a pet named after a scientist.

. . . you laugh at jokes about mathematicians.

. . . the Humane Society has had you arrested because you actually performed the Schroedinger’s Cat Experiment.

. . . you can translate English into Binary.

. . . you can’t remember what’s behind the door in the science building which says "Exit.”

. . . you have to bring a jacket with you, in the middle of summer, because there’s a wind-chill factor in the lab.

. . . you are completely addicted to caffeine.

. . . you avoid doing anything because you don’t want to contribute to the eventual heat-death of the universe.

. . . you consider any non-science course “easy.”

. . . when your professor asks you where your homework is, you claim to have accidentally determined its momentum so precisely, that according to Heisenberg it could be anywhere in the universe.

. . . the “fun” center of your brain has deteriorated from lack of use.

. . . you’ll assume that a “horse” is a “sphere” in order to make the math easier.

. . . you understood more than five of these indicators.

. . . you make a hard copy of this list and post it on your office door.

. . . you know the glass is neither half full nor half empty; it's simply twice as big as it needs to be.

subzali
08-20-2008, 04:07 PM
.
. . . you’ll assume that a “horse” is a “sphere” in order to make the math easier.


Yes, I have actually done this :doh:

:hill:

Jacket
08-20-2008, 04:41 PM
Interesting....I always felt that people were sympathetic toward engineers. I mean, the constant over-analyzing, getting stuck in the minutia, social awkwardness, unable to dress themselves, constant need to take things apart (but not always able to put them back together). It's a rough life.....

Bikeman
08-20-2008, 05:01 PM
All I can say is that engineers should not think they are bike mechanics, and should NOT be allowed to work on their own bikes!

nuclearlemon
08-20-2008, 05:01 PM
you're kidding right matt? for me, every day is kick an engineer day. they design stuff, but they don't have to deal with it after they design it, so no matter what it is, they don't design it to make it easy to deal with.

computer engineers are the worst, if that makes you feel any better. and if they're in the automotive/trucking industry, they're complete morons. they have no clue of where parts should be located or what they should be called.

sorry, dude...you asked.;)

Rogue Leader
08-20-2008, 05:10 PM
A doctor, priest, and an engineer go golfing one day. around the 4th hole a group in front of them is playing really slow. When the range master comes by they ask why is the group so slow.
"Well they are firefighters who lost their eye sight saving the clubhouse last year so we let them play for free" said the range manager.
"I'll talk to some colleagues about it" said the doctor.
"I'll say a prayer for them on Sunday" said the priest.
"Why cant they play at night?" said the engineer.

60wag
08-20-2008, 08:38 PM
I have no doubt that Matt will avoid being one of "those" engineers that are pretty clueless about the details needed to actually engineer good stuff. When I worked for a small company, we created all sorts of machines to manufacture parts for our customers. Whatever we dreamed up, we built and maintained. Some of it was junk but some of it was very cool and quite fun. Being involved in the whole picture enabled you to tackle all kinds of new problems.

Now I work for a large company managing the maintenance dept. We have LOTS of engineers in the company. Some are good, all so far are nice but.... despite the fact that they all have degrees and some years of experience, I shocked at how clueless the bulk of them are. Sometimes I'm sure they spend more time writing change orders and validation plans than actually applying technical skill to improving the stuff we make.

Nick F.
08-20-2008, 09:30 PM
We have a complicated piece of equipment at work that breaks down fairly regularly. We then call the company and they always send the same engineer out to diagnose the problem. He can quote you all kind of specs and a million types of useless information about it. The only thing he can't do is tell you how to make it work. We literally refer to this guy as dumb-dumb the engineer.

His problem lies in the practical application of what he does. Facts and figures do no good if it doesn't work in the end.

My Dad is an engineer by the way..:thumb:

Nick F.

AxleIke
08-20-2008, 10:07 PM
Keep in mind that the spec'ed DAC may have cost less or had shorter lead time or a bean counter dictated it's use or the engineer had stock in the manufacturer. There is more to the story than what meets the eye. We are often told not to use a particular part because of cost and lead-time. You have to pick your battles and maybe the designer felt he could make it work and left it at that. They often also don't have the benefit of the testing we get to do on spaceflight qualified stuff. Commercial world is lucky if they get a week of operation before they box and ship it. Product life cycles are extremely short and product market opportunity windows are small. Shrug. Sometimes you just screw up. I can only say feel free to give it go, maybe if more people showed aptitude and interest for it, we'd have to work fewer hours. Come October (Federal government fiscal year start) I understand the flood gates are gonna reopen around here. Joy.


Considering 80% of our lab is paid for by Federal Grants, I understand measuring cost above all else ALL too well.

I also sympathize. Engineering is tough work, and its easy to point fingers at the guy who designed something, rather than the reality that stuff just wears out.

In my work example, the DAC issue is tough to blame. Could it have been done better? Sure. Horrible mistake? No.

But the oil filter? THAT is a case of someone simply NEVER having had to change oil in a car before.

You, Dave, own a motor that you MUST want to slap the engineer over.

Seriously, when you look at the 22re, and then at the 3.4 available in trucks on either side of yours (speaking in terms of the timeline), do you not wonder how such a "difficult to maintenance" motor could be devised? Changing the clutch alone made me feel like the motor design was farmed out to a guy who failed High School Auto Class.

Beater
08-21-2008, 06:44 AM
I avoided the thread but I have to give kudos to Isaac for reading my thoughts! Nothing wrong with an engineer as long as there is more than books and degrees behind their thinking!

In all seriousness, that's it.

I remember the first time I broke down an porsche motor/vehicle. I had done many american ones, with their loose tolerances or forcing things into place, along with the not being able to immediately make sense of why they put this thing there, and plenty of japanese, mostly evoking thoughts of "was this done just to prove they could", so when I started working on porsches, it was a huge breathe of fresh air. Why? good mechanical engineering. not just design engineering, but PHYSICALLY designed engineering.

Same with bicycles, between the japanese component manufacturers and the italians. Shimano's engineers provide a top level product, but their product uses twice the moving parts compared to Campagnolo's, and is not serviceable or repairable by the field user/tech.

Case in point? Porsches engineers must spend time on the finished product besides design. They drive and wrench on their own designs. Does it make a difference? Gee, I don't know. What is the most successful racing vehicle of all time by number of finishes/placement?

j

Red_Chili
08-21-2008, 08:26 AM
Don't ask an engineer a question, unless you have taken NoDoze or have a lot of time on your hands. The concept of 'Executive Summary' would go a long way in engineer-land.

I think the most irritating aspect of engineers is the tendency to constantly over-analyze things, agonize over details that seem trivial, yet trip right over the most obvious issues. Distracted by the details? Maybe. It just seems that the reluctance to rely on common sense leads many engineers to fail to benefit from it.

One of the cool things about Toyota is kaizen. The engineers must listen to the line workers, who usually have the ideas that improve the product. It works very, very well, is responsible for the famed Toyota reliability and parts interchangeability that we enjoy, and is the envy of manufacturers everywhere.

Yet this same system has continued to produce oil filter placement that, upon removal of said filter, drains its contents all over the side of the motor and all over the front diff. Just to make sure they nail that diff, the drain plug empties its contents all over it too. I have seen that they finally improved on that. The solution was to mount the oil filter where easily accessible - but upside-down. :confused: :rolleyes: :lmao:

Crash
08-21-2008, 09:05 AM
Have you thought about getting a boob job Dave?
;)

So we're boring, irritating, easily distracted scatterbrains who lack common sense. We're like a bunch of everyday Paris Hiltons without the money and boobs. Yeah, put that way, we are pretty unpleasant to be around.

Red_Chili
08-21-2008, 09:21 AM
So we're boring, irritating, easily distracted scatterbrains who lack common sense. We're like a bunch of everyday Paris Hiltons without the money and boobs. Yeah, put that way, we are pretty unpleasant to be around. We don't understand their language and for the love of God, never tap on their cube glass and attempt to socialize with them. But we sure are glad they were around to design that beeping gizmo that saved your mother's life when she was in the hospital, the generally reliable ambulance and roads that got her there and the cell phone system that you used to call your wife and talk it over with her.
Yeah, you got it! :lmao:

I am starting to wonder about your self image though. And I don't want to hear anything about your boobs. TMI

Uncle Ben
08-21-2008, 09:42 AM
And you guys think your resident engineers are weird, how about this stuff? Probably should warn that these links are PG or older (not porn, but definitely high school humor).

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/breastshaped-shampoo-dispenser-190666.php
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/giggle-a-boob-radio-222942.php

Hey.....now thats some grass roots, hands on engineering! :thumb::thumb:

treerootCO
08-21-2008, 09:45 AM
I am a senior software engineer by title... My advice to you Subzali is that you need to find the ability to explain your analytical reasoning to the simplest of folks (like me) without getting frustrated.

AxleIke
08-21-2008, 10:48 AM
I think EEs get it most, a SW glitch, some nuisance fuse, little bugs make everyone forget the other 1000 things that worked right for your iPod to play music, your Internet pr0n to download or your DirecTV box to work. The silicon wafers had to be pure, out of a million, the other 999,999 gates worked right in the chip, etc. On top of it, each generation of widget costs half as much and came to market 3 months earlier.

LOL! Actually my recent automotive ownership history is a 1996 Ford Ranger (they used platinum plugs because the back two were lifetime installed, impossible to remove once the engine was installed), 1983 Honda Civic, 1996 Honda Civic and the FJ40. In comparison the 22R-E is easy to work on, simple and reliable. I guess I understand the thought processes behind the 22R-E, so I find it fairly easy to understand and so that's why I stuck with it. The 4Runner, I haven't even had to lift the hood since Kirsten has been taking it into Burt for oil changes. But having 230 HP and getting 20 MPG, yeah that ain't bad.

My mistake.

I thought you had the 3.0. The 22re has a few irritating aspects, but for the most part, its easy.

I was referring to the colossal vomit of an idea that became the 3.0L

Red_Chili
08-21-2008, 11:34 AM
I am a senior software engineer by title... My advice to you Subzali is that you need to find the ability to explain your analytical reasoning to the simplest of folks (like me) without getting frustrated.
That would be a less politically correct way of describing "Executive Summary"...
:rolleyes: :lmao::lmao:

Hey, it takes all kinds.
I like the phrase, "There comes a time in the life of every project when you must shoot the engineers and begin production."

Engineers can discover an almost infinite array of means to improve the performance and reduce the cost of a widget. But at some point, you have to actually be able to sell something... :cool:

You need engineer kinds, sales kinds, support kinds, manager kinds... all working together. And finding amusing ways to slam each other.

rover67
08-21-2008, 12:56 PM
Being an engineer I think what bothers me the most are people that go to school and end up thinking that as a result they know everything about everything and aren't willing to listen to the "older" more experienced folks tell them how they should be doing it.

subzali
08-21-2008, 01:28 PM
[QUOTE=Red_Chili;83852]
Engineers can discover an almost infinite array of means to improve the performance and reduce the cost of a widget. But at some point, you have to actually be able to sell something... :cool:
QUOTE]

Our client has one engineer in particular that, best I can tell, has been the sole reason their plant isn't up and running yet. It's been about 1 1/2 years of fiddling around with stuff and we have nothing to show for it. Nice, smart guy, but geez...:rant:

Mendocino
08-21-2008, 01:42 PM
I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but its pretty funny and appropriate for RS (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KaHm1ecBCgw&NR=1).;)

Beater
08-21-2008, 01:44 PM
That would be a less politically correct way of describing "Executive Summary"...
:rolleyes: :lmao::lmao:



Engineers can discover an almost infinite array of means to improve the performance and reduce the cost of a widget. But at some point, you have to actually be able to sell something... :cool:



NOW you're an expert on Sales? ooohh boy...

Red_Chili
08-21-2008, 03:13 PM
That makes me an expert on sales?

Must be a low bar. :lmao:

PabloCruise
08-26-2008, 12:36 PM
Matt, did you not get the big book of engineer jokes when you went into engineering?

nuclearlemon
08-26-2008, 01:12 PM
was helping my boss on a sprinkler job this last weekend, and the owner, an engineer was measuring all kinds of stuff on her front stoop...she said she was just trying to figure out what might go wrong:rolleyes:

chtucker
08-26-2008, 07:36 PM
So.... I am an employed as Electronics Specialist


AND


I am a lazy government employee...

Do they cancel each other out or is my situation growing exponentially?

Uncle Ben
08-26-2008, 07:47 PM
So.... I am an employed as Electronics Specialist


AND


I am a lazy government employee...

Do they cancel each other out or is my situation growing exponentially?

At least your among friends here! We like Engineers....they taste like chicken! :lmao::lmao::lmao: