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Jacket
08-22-2008, 03:44 PM
So the Slaughterhouse trip in my FJ40 was interesting in a number of ways. Weird transmission locking issues, a cracked exhaust pipe and broken hanger, and this:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/IMG_0993.jpg

In that section of rear sill is supposed to be my latch for the tire carrier, but the weight of the tire combined with some rust issues ripped the sheet metal completely off the rig.

There's a decent amount of rust back there, and some if its hidden by paint so its hard to tell the extent of the cancer. If this were your rig, would you:

- by a new, complete rear sill, and rip the old one out. Get it installed and bolt the old latch to it
- try to repair the existing hole by welding in a new piece of reinforced sheet metal to hold the latch.
- continue to use bungy cords to (mostly) hold it in place. Body work involving the rear sill is a huge PITA.

Opinions and experiences are welcome.

Matt

PS - I have the 75-76 square plate type tire carrier on the drivers side.



Edit: Added a quick picture summary.

Rust cut away

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/IMG_1204.jpg

New CCOT rear channel mounted with new OEM body mounts

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/IMG_1216.jpg

New patch sheet metal welded in

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/IMG_1292.jpg

Final (filler, primer, paint)

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/May09016.jpg

corsair23
08-22-2008, 04:51 PM
Assuming your plans are to keep the 40 for a long time and that it is more of your fun rig and not just a wheeler, I'd completely replace it and any other cancer in the rear as it will only get worse. I guess that would be option A

Maybe also look into getting a new rear bumper w/ tire carrier to get that weight off the body all together?

Uncle Ben
08-22-2008, 04:54 PM
So the Slaughterhouse trip in my FJ40 was interesting in a number of ways. Weird transmission locking issues, a cracked exhaust pipe and broken hanger, and this:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/IMG_0993.jpg

In that section of rear sill is supposed to be my latch for the tire carrier, but the weight of the tire combined with some rust issues ripped the sheet metal completely off the rig.

There's a decent amount of rust back there, and some if its hidden by paint so its hard to tell the extent of the cancer. If this were your rig, would you:

- by a new, complete rear sill, and rip the old one out. Get it installed and bolt the old latch to it
- try to repair the existing hole by welding in a new piece of reinforced sheet metal to hold the latch.
- continue to use bungy cords to (mostly) hold it in place. Body work involving the rear sill is a huge PITA.

Opinions and experiences are welcome.

Matt

PS - I have the 75-76 square plate type tire carrier on the drivers side.

Door #1! I would start finding where the exent of the rust is and replace all sheet metal that has cancer! You will never stop chasing rust unless you get a head of it! That is the ONLY reason IH855's!

Rezarf
08-22-2008, 05:49 PM
Matt-

I would suggest replacing the rust too for the long run. But, for the short run, I would bolt up or weld up (happy to help) a plate that would cover the hole the crossmember to the rear crossmember so you can still bolt up the latch where the hole is... I have scrap that could do it pretty easy, then at least your not quite so bungy ghetto.

Rezarf
08-22-2008, 05:50 PM
FWIW, I know a guy on ebay who sells rear sills for the 40, and I have seen them up close and they are SWEET!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/75-82-Toyota-Landcruiser-FJ40-Rear-Sill-Replacement_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ36475QQihZ001QQitemZ110282400960QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

frontrange
08-22-2008, 09:38 PM
You're missing more than the sill. There is a channel behind it that runs the length in between the quarterpanels that is rusted away.

Azrael
08-22-2008, 09:50 PM
Anybody know a good source for that channel? The only one I've found is on SOR for 79+. I need to replace most of the rear end, andwant to keep it stock to a 72.

farnhamstj
08-22-2008, 10:43 PM
Jeff Z has a great write up on rebuilding his 40 body. I made a sill out of 2" square and notched and sledge hammered to round the corners. Bolted it in place and ran it for years. $30 fix but not factory look.

Jacket
08-23-2008, 09:53 AM
Thanks for the input. I knew this 40 had rust, and I wasn't willing to put up the cash for a rust-free body. So I'm Ok with some cancer, but in this case, it's become bigger issue with my spare. And I don't want the instability and movement to start tearing/ripping/warping the other two carrier mounts on the fender.

Thanks for the link Drew - I'll take a look. I also have a gift card to CCOT from my wife, and I know they have a couple of replacement options to check in to. Man - I'm going to have lots of fun projects this winter....

Rzeppa
08-23-2008, 08:30 PM
What I did:

Super cheap (less than $30 worth of 16 gauge steel, plus a 2x2 chunk of tube that Ian gave me), took a couple days, a little body filler, some rattle can and presto voila!

http://rzeppa.org/tech/sill26thm.gif

Link to full write-up (http://rzeppa.org/tech/sill.htm)

Beater
08-24-2008, 08:07 AM
I have a beverly shear, hand held shears, snips, plasma and all that good stuff you are welcome to use with supervision (beer)...

16ga seems heavy, why not 20~22?

j

Rzeppa
08-24-2008, 12:05 PM
16ga seems heavy, why not 20~22?

16 gauge is what the factory used until late 1976, when they went to 18 gauge sheet metal (also coincided with using recycled steel, which is a subject of considerable debate as to whether it rusts faster). After looking at hundreds of rusted 40s over the years, I would say subjectively and anecdotally that the "later" rigs are almost always more rusted than the earlier ones.

lfd270ben
08-24-2008, 06:28 PM
I replaced mine it wasn't too bad. Go for #1 stop it before the back of the rig looks like swiss cheese

Jacket
01-19-2009, 10:35 PM
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/IMG_1192.jpg

Jeff Zepp - Did you use a sawzall to cut the outer two body mounts (the ones above the tail lights)? They're not exactly accessible if ya know what I mean....

Rzeppa
01-19-2009, 10:46 PM
Hi Matt,

IIRC, I used the air powered zip wheel (basically a 4" x 1/16" angle grinder) to cut the outer sheet metal, then tried to unbolt the body mount bolts. When they just twisted off, I then used the zip wheel to cut the bolts off, however a sawzall would have worked just as well once the outer skin was cut out of the way. A hot wrench (O-A torch) would have worked too, but mechanical cutting is usually cleaner.

Jacket
01-19-2009, 10:52 PM
Thanks Jeff. I've got the outer sheet metal cut away so that the mounts are exposed, but I can't quite get a tool in there to cut the nut head off. I'm going to try again tomorrow with my Dremel and see if I can get in there and cut the head off.

Rzeppa
01-20-2009, 11:36 PM
Hi Matt, instead of going for the nut, just go for a gap between (whatever's left of) the body mount and the frame cross member (bottom) or sill (top).

MDH33
01-21-2009, 12:19 PM
Way to jump in there, Matt! I need to do this same repair. I'll be watching your progress. Do you have a welder?

:beer:

Jacket
01-21-2009, 03:43 PM
That would require planning and forethought. Naw - I'm much better at spontaneous destruction phase....

Jerry's getting me some new body mounts, so I should be able to get that far with the new sill before I have to address the body repair.

Rezarf
01-25-2009, 12:34 PM
I say just make a bed of duct tape and fill it with bondo! It will be more rubust than what most people do to fix their 40. ;)

Looks great Matt- if you get desperate and need me to tack up some steel for you and or weld in some new stuff, I'd be happy to help. I have a small break at the house too for small parts, mounts, corners... stuff like that.

Save all the old metal, I have found it helps when recreating the peices to fix it.

Have fun, while you are in a chopping mood, I say go for it all! :hill:

zornff
01-28-2009, 10:04 PM
I'd cut the back half off and make an fj45 pu. Oh wait, thats just me ;). Keep up the good work, and get ALL the rust out.

Jacket
02-08-2009, 09:11 PM
It's not that a project like this takes weeks and weeks of effort, except when you only get a couple hours here and a few hours there to work on it. Plus I got derailed with a leaky brake master cylinder, which I replaced with a new OEM unit and bled the system. Brakes are in good shape....

4 new OEM body mounts (coutesy of Jerry at BT).

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/IMG_1212.jpg

The body mounts should have been easy, but I wrestled with them for a few hours given the limited space to work in back there. You need to have midget hands to do this job well.

Here's what she looks like now with the new CCOT channel mounted (the black piece) you see extending into the quarter panels. The complete kit from CCOT includes a new piece of sheet metal (the white primed piece), which needs to be welded on.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/IMG_1216.jpg

So now I need to cut new sheet metal for the fenders, and fill in a few gaps in other areas to finish this up. Since I don't have a welder at the moment, this last step could take a while....

Rzeppa
02-08-2009, 09:25 PM
Talk about deja vu batman! That white piece is what I was working on today, on my 76. I had trimmed the ends to fit last weekend, but went to get it ready for welding today. I had to dork around with the two inside body mounts to get it in there. I kind of moved them out of the way, I don't want to melt them when I go to weld it in later this evening. Yours is obviously a later version. When I bought mine, they hadn't been drilling holes in the back to weld through, and I ended up drilling my own. I drilled two rows, I see they have one.

Shark Bait
02-08-2009, 11:34 PM
So now I need to cut new sheet metal for the fenders, and fill in a few gaps in other areas to finish this up. Since I don't have a welder at the moment, this last step could take a while....

Looks like a new exhaust system is somewhere on the list, too. :eek:;)

Jacket
02-09-2009, 08:43 AM
Looks like a new exhaust system is somewhere on the list, too. :eek:;)

Indeed! That courtesy of the BOWAGW run last summer. It cracked in about 10 places that afternoon..... The backfiring in the mall parking lot can be fun though.:D

MDH33
02-09-2009, 09:03 AM
Looking good Matt. What are you going to use to replace the cut portions of fender? Are you going to bend flat sheet metal, or did you purchase some of the patch panels from CCOT?

What kind of welder have you picked out?? :)

Jacket
02-09-2009, 09:59 AM
Plan A is to bend some flat sheet - I've got a small sheet of 16g cold-rolled that I'll begin experimenting with some time soon.

Welder - leaning toward a Lincoln pro-mig 180. I've got a couple of leads for a decent deal....

If all goes well, a replacement front bumper for the log I currently have attached will be next. Some good inspiration out there from Rezarf and Zepp.

Rezarf
02-10-2009, 12:57 AM
Matt- You are welcome to my welder if you want to play around with it before you buy one. Mine is a Lincoln 175spt... or in other words, the old version of the one you are looking at.

I'd love to practice on YOUR cruiser first... you know, get all the bugs out ;)

Jacket
04-05-2009, 09:44 AM
The new channel wings didn't line up perfectly, and I had to grind a bit off the passenger side and do some creative tacking to get everything to line up as good as possible.

For the new fender pieces, I traced the existing cutout onto a piece of paper, then traced that onto cardboard, and then finally onto the sheet metal. I got pretty close with the cuts, but tried to error on the side of too big whenever necessary.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/IMG_1289.jpg

The 16g bends pretty easily with some clamps, and I tried to start at one end and work my way to the other. To try and control the heat and warping, I just did a series of tacks all along the seam, starting with 2" (or more) gaps, then filling in the spaces. I drilled holes in the custom pieces, and tried rosette welds through to the channel wings.

Driver's side in the middle of tacking it in. I had a bit of trouble getting good welds without burning through.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/IMG_1291.jpg

Passenger side tacked in. Welding got better on this side.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/IMG_1292.jpg

And welds ground down

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/IMG_1295.jpg

Next up I'm going to fill in the remaining holes with Duraglass and seam sealer, then cover it with some filler.

treerootCO
04-05-2009, 09:47 AM
An FJ40 drive shaft is the perfect radius to bend those panels...

Uncle Ben
04-05-2009, 10:11 AM
Nice job Matt! It always feel good to get ahead of rust! Unfortunately, like the Neil Young song, "rust never sleeps." Even knowing that it is some serious warm fuzzies to know you won another small war in the never ending battle of Japanese sheetmetal!

MDH33
04-05-2009, 10:25 AM
Looking good! Appears you'll have it done and ready for the 40's Only Run. :thumb: Did you ever get your transmission trouble worked out? I have a spare H42 if you want to try a swap.

:beer:

RicardoJM
04-05-2009, 10:48 AM
It is looking real good Matt:thumb:

MDH33
04-05-2009, 01:28 PM
It is looking real good Matt:thumb:

Didn't you mean to say "Martin" ? ;)

Jacket
04-06-2009, 09:00 AM
Did you ever get your transmission trouble worked out? I have a spare H42 if you want to try a swap.

:beer:

Not yet. Its drivable as long as I keep it in gear at all times....

Ricardo and I were talking about 4 speed swaps on Saturday - when I get this sill project finished I'm going to try and pull the top cover off and see what things look like from up top - and see if I can get a "4 speed consultant" to advise.

Rzeppa
04-06-2009, 10:09 PM
Hi Matt, that looks VERY familiar! Nice work!. Yeah pop the top on that H42. I'll bet there's a good chance you'll be able to eyeball what's going on, since most of that action takes place up top.

Jacket
05-13-2009, 11:14 AM
A few things I've learned after my first attempt at body work and painting:

1. I'm not nearly as good at painting as I thought I was. :o
2. "Pretty good" is not good enough in the world of body work. As soon as you paint, all the imperfections are spotlighted.
3. Finding a sweet spot between paint thickness, spray pattern and PSI is a complicated science.
4. Repainting only the section around the patched area yields less than optimal results. :homer:

Since these panels have other rust and imperfections, I wasn't trying to make this fix "show quality." But the perfectionist in me is having some trouble with the finishing work. I'm going to try and rough up the paint (both the new paint and a bigger section of old), and clean it up tonight. Good news is that I'm basically done (finally).

Rzeppa
05-13-2009, 05:51 PM
A few things I've learned after my first attempt at body work and painting:

1. I'm not nearly as good at painting as I thought I was. :o
2. "Pretty good" is not good enough in the world of body work. As soon as you paint, all the imperfections are spotlighted.
3. Finding a sweet spot between paint thickness, spray pattern and PSI is a complicated science.
4. Repainting only the section around the patched area yields less than optimal results. :homer:

Since these panels have other rust and imperfections, I wasn't trying to make this fix "show quality." But the perfectionist in me is having some trouble with the finishing work. I'm going to try and rough up the paint (both the new paint and a bigger section of old), and clean it up tonight. Good news is that I'm basically done (finally).

Sweet! Yeah, BTDT with the imperfection bit. I was totally impressed with the incredible job Phil Simmons did on his first try at painting.

On my resto, I plan on taking it down to the body shop a few blocks from my house where they have a nice downdraft booth and know what they're doing. And before that, I plan on having them up here (again) for last minute tips on final prep. They've been an immense help to me over the years, giving me tips and pointers. If anyone on the West side needs paint or body work, I highly recommend Kittredge Auto Rebuilders.

Jacket
05-14-2009, 12:38 PM
primed

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/May09013.jpg

top coat
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/May09016.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/mralsto/FJ40/rear%20sill/May09017.jpg

I'm disappointed that I didn't just paint the entire quarter panel from the hard top down - the tape lines from the first pass over just the selected area are pretty noticible. Stupid mistake....

Rzeppa
05-14-2009, 05:33 PM
That looks absolutely beautiful! Yours came out much better than mine. Quite impressive!

MDH33
05-14-2009, 06:36 PM
Looks good Matt.:thumb:

Is that Rustic Green? Want to spray some doors for me?? ;)

subzali
05-15-2009, 07:33 AM
Matt, that looks pretty darn good IMO. In those pictures it's a little hard to see what you're talking about with imperfections. I would say that if your (especially first time) bodywork turns out with a good looking product from 10 or 20 feet then that's about all you can expect!

RicardoJM
05-15-2009, 07:56 AM
I think it looks great. The cosmetics are much better than before and more important the structural integrity of the truck and the rear end is now solid. I would put your project very solidly in the "Success" band of the spectrum. It has been cool to follow the progress from wondering about the options all the way through to completion. Good Job !!! :D

nakman
05-15-2009, 09:03 AM
Looks great, Matt. :thumb:

MDH33
05-15-2009, 09:48 AM
How about some finished pics in the sunlight? Or better yet, on some dirt. :beer:

Jacket
05-15-2009, 12:43 PM
Sunlight? But then you'd be able to see the mistakes..... ;)

Thanks all. It's definitely solid, and once the 40 gets dirty it'll be tough to notice the cosmetic stuff.

The color is close to rustic green, but the PO provided an old can from when it was painted in '94, and the label on the can was cross-referenced to a late 80's/early 90's GM color code.:rolleyes: The original color is Dune Beige (as far as I can tell).

DaveInDenver
05-15-2009, 12:57 PM
Well done!

FWIW, just as a complete aside, I noticed that Rustoleum sells their Professional line in a Hunter Green. It actually looks fairly close to your color and might be an option for accessories or something. I was over at Home Depot when I saw it.

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=95

I've been impressed with this stuff. I used it to paint a bunch of stuff last year (Marlin bumper, Bud's skid plates, etc.) and while the impact spots scraped off and rusted consistent with paint instead of powdercoat, the paint on the rest of the surface did not flake off or start rusting this winter. I just did a regular coat with reasonable care, just prep-acetone clean-prime coat-paint coat cycle.

AxleIke
05-15-2009, 01:16 PM
LOOKS AWESOME MATT!!!

Great work man. VERY impressed. Lets get TT out on the trail now!

Jacket
09-04-2010, 10:01 AM
Finally got to work on some rust issues with the ambulance doors. Once I cut into them, it became quickly obvious I wasn't the first person to try and slow down the rust. Some thin sheet metals caps were in place, plus quite a bit of fiberglass. The goal isn't to make them perfect again, but instead just deal with the non-functional sections and holes.

First was the bottom latch. The driver side door latch didn't work on the bottom door, primarily because parts had become detached. (http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=10746&highlight=part) In trying to fix this, I found that the lower latch had been bondo'ed to the door, and the bolts were completely rusted. So I decided to clean it up.

Cut away rusted section after removing the latch.

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/Jacket/amb_doors/001.JPG

Replacement piece with cuts and bends

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/Jacket/amb_doors/002.JPG

Checking fit

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/Jacket/amb_doors/003.JPG

Turns out I didn't cut away enough of the bad metal, so I couldn't get good welds on the inner side. It's strong enough, but will require some "post processing."

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/Jacket/amb_doors/004.JPG

Some smoothing in place, and the holes for the door latch mechanism.
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/Jacket/amb_doors/012.JPG

Jacket
09-04-2010, 10:08 AM
The other problem area was a tennis ball-sized hole on the same door. Not sure what happened, but it was rusty and in rough shape.

Cut away the offending section.

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/Jacket/amb_doors/005.JPG

New piece of 16g cold rolled cut and bent.

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/Jacket/amb_doors/006.JPG

Welded in place. You can see the other bondo that was used to try and fix up past rust issues. Not exactly top quality workmanship...

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/Jacket/amb_doors/007.JPG

Smoothing and sanding

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/Jacket/amb_doors/013.JPG


After much sanding, smoothing and taping off, I got the cleaned up door primed and ready for painting. I should be able to get it finished up in time for hard top season.:thumb:

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/Jacket/amb_doors/013.JPG

Rzeppa
09-05-2010, 11:39 AM
Turns out I didn't cut away enough of the bad metal, so I couldn't get good welds on the inner side. It's strong enough, but will require some "post processing."

I ran into a similar problem when I built a new rear sill for my 71:

http://rzeppa.org/tech/sill30.jpg

You can see where I blew through the semi-rusted QPs. Because they were thinner than the 16 Ga patch metal I had to tweak the heat to where it was enough to melt the new metal, but not blow through the QPs too much. Hindsight being 20/20, I should have replaced large sections of my QPs while I was at it. It is now starting to rust through the QPs where I welded to it.

Rezarf
09-05-2010, 08:39 PM
Looking great matt- keep up the good work. Let me know if you need a heckler leaning over your shoulder saying things like... gssh! uhhhg! and or gasp! :D