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bigbluefj
08-24-2008, 12:32 PM
To all the Rising Sun mini truck guy's i've been thinking about picking this up for a daily driver/wheeling truck wanted to know what everyone think's of it, of course this is a loaded question what could a guy do to this truck for mod's???? HMMMM!!! With in reason of course keeping in mind it's also going to be a daily driver...

Kevin

the milage on the truck is 253 KM's and the motor is a 4 cyl

bigbluefj
08-24-2008, 12:36 PM
A few more shot's of the truck ...


Kevin

Uncle Ben
08-24-2008, 02:37 PM
First thing I would do to make it a better 'wheeler would be to take that utility light off the headache rack and put it underneath a Land Cruiser for a rock light! Presto.....instant good 'wheeler! ;) :p::lmao::lmao:

powderpig
08-24-2008, 06:27 PM
I just wondering if you will fit in side the cab. I want a pic to make sure. Is this a 4 cyl gas or diesel? I know the dog will fit, just wondering if you will be comfortable?
Other wise it looks to be a great start for a wheeler. The pics do not show if it is IFS or a solid axle, what is the front axle(body style says IFS)?
Catch you later, Robbie

bigbluefj
08-24-2008, 08:57 PM
Well put it this way robbie if Kevin and i were in the truck it would be a tight fit but not to bad though, and it is IFS so i was thinking something like maybe doing a SAS not sure yet going to take it for an inspection on thursday and it would be gas also..

Kevin

AxleIke
08-24-2008, 10:24 PM
:weld:

Cut it up.

It'll be a money pit, but likely cheaper than the cruiser was.

bigbluefj
08-24-2008, 10:35 PM
so what do you have for gear's and what not in your truck axlelike????

J Kimmel
08-25-2008, 06:28 AM
solid axle is easy, if the price is right grab it, looks clean. the 4 cyl is great, add dual cases and have some fun :) I wish I had an xcab, mine is ok but the reg cab can be a little tight.

if you stick with toy axles go 4.88 and 35-37" tires and youre set :)

Red_Chili
08-25-2008, 07:32 AM
Disagree. With a 22RE, 35-37", and that flatbed (can't be light - but it looks very well built), don't consider anything less than 5.29s. Your right foot will thank you. With 5.29s and 35s, you will be geared *slightly* (3%, 4% or so) shorter than stock. Which you will appreciate.

5.29s can be extremely tough when set up properly (http://www.gearinstalls.com).

You will need some lift of course, if for no other reason than
1) to clear the flatbed in the rear, it is a bit close, and
2) the IFS frame does not have quite the up travel as the SA frame, meaning 4" is minimum for function and to clear the hi steer. 4" is about right, 5" in the rear.

Like we talked about on the phone, for SAS kits I like Front Range Off Road Fab's spring hangers. They are minimal drop, which puts less stress on the frame (cracking) and matches the stock '85 SA geometry. I don't care for his shackles, they are unbraced and will oval the bolt holes over time leading to goofy steering, but bracing shackles is easy enough to do. Save some money and avoid the shock hoops in all the kits; Ford F250 shock towers are great, and cost $12.50 each.

Marlin/Trail Gear/All-Pro springs are fine and will work. Alcans ride noticeably better in all conditions however, quite a bit better. Maybe it is because they are under less load since they lighten your wallet more.

You will need to move the axle forward a bit to really make things work with minimal lift. Not a big deal. You can
1) move the steering box forward. Not that bad.
2) use a shorter and flatter pitman arm. This is what I did. Brian Ellinger of Front Range Offroad took an FJ80 arm, cut off the end, and cut a tapered hole for FJ80 TREs for me. Steers a bit slower, is at the minimum length to not affect your turning radius, and angles the TRE AWAY from the tie rod instead of toward it like stock. Strong sucker. My axle is a good 3" forward of stock with no issues.

I like a 1" body lift. Just that much more room for everything. Use a Front Range Offroad crossmember and you can lift the drivetrain a bit too. Budbuilt is fine but you can't position everything just where you want it. You want to lose that two-piece rear driveshaft and build a CV shaft.

Use an FZJ80 high pinion front diff to have an uber-highway-friendly front drive line that is less vulnerable to the rocks to boot. Quite strong unless you are trying to drag around a lardbutt 80 and go flying with it, apparently. :lmao: In a mini it is as strong as you need.

As discussed elsewhere, 9-way adjustable Ranchos is the schizzle.

I like ARBs for reliable fast engagement, others prefer elockers or auto lockers (I think minis don't like auto lockers quite as well as 60s or such (for highway application), but I leave that to your preference).

Let us know any other questions! Do all this, and you will have a competent rock truck that will also be comfortable on the highway. Nice thing about the XtraCab is, you can squeeze a long Canook in there easier.
:thumb:

Red_Chili
08-25-2008, 07:32 AM
Oh, yeah... welcome to the dark side!

Try not to get cookie crumbs on the carpet.

AxleIke
08-25-2008, 08:00 AM
so what do you have for gear's and what not in your truck axlelike????

I have 4.88's and 33's on my truck. Its a good combination. Enough gear to be able to keep up speed on the high way, but not so much that the RPMs are through the roof.

I agree with Bill that for anything 35 and over, you want 5.29's. Or a 3.4 swap.

DaveInDenver
08-25-2008, 08:13 AM
How much wheeling compared to daily driving? Are you looking to replace the Big Blue FJ40 on the trail? If not really more than 3ish trails, I would keep it reasonable and keep the cool tray, ~2" lift, 4.88 or 5.29 gears, 33" tires, a locker. If you intend to wheel it harder or are set on 35" or bigger tires, then do the SAS.

I have hesitated on the SAS because of the stuff Bill talks about, getting the right steering and all that. I have enough trouble keeping my truck street worthy without worrying about a cracking frame or steering box mount, which tie rod ends to use or whatever. But I'm also a knucklehead who thought it was reasonable to drag this very same model through the Rubicon. Keeping in mind that none of the 'weak' IFS stuff was what broke. An undersized skid plate, yes. Rear leaf spring, yes.
5.29s can be extremely tough when set up properly.
Robbie did my gears and lockers, he's another 5.29-in-8" diffs guy. I have 33x10.50 tires with my 5.29s and really like the combo. I don't find it too low, but I think you guys in the 80s did on I-80. When we're solo or it's just Dean and me, it's not a problem.
You want to lose that two-piece rear driveshaft and build a CV shaft.
If you go to a one piece rear driveshaft, make sure you cycle the suspension and check the fuel tank clearance. On the third gen XtraCab the shaft takes driver-side shift to clear the front corner of the fuel tank skid plate. I'm still well within the range of interference with my rear suspension, which is roughly 3" of rear lift. I dunno if when you go to 5" of lift if that solves it, although doing dual cases would change the layout.

Red_Chili
08-25-2008, 08:29 AM
I have hesitated on the SAS because of the stuff Bill talks about, getting the right steering and all that. I have enough trouble keeping my truck street worthy without worrying about a cracking frame or steering box mount, which tie rod ends to use or whatever. But I'm also a knucklehead who thought it was reasonable to drag this very same model through the Rubicon. Keeping in mind that none of the 'weak' IFS stuff was what broke. An undersized skid plate, yes. Rear leaf spring, yes.

SASs are pretty much down to a proven formula now, Dave. C'mon over after you collect the parts and we will have it done in a weekend. And nobody said your generation of IFS was weak (idler arm notwithstanding)!

But only you can decide what you want. Dave, given the amount of DD duty your truck gets, the kinds of trails you do, etc. I'd say it is a borderline situation whether a SAS makes sense for ya.

Regards Kevin, I had an unfair advantage in that we spoke on the phone Sunday and a SAS is decided. I told him he oughta post up, so we could see pix and so us minitruck guys would actually have something to say around here! :hill: :rolleyes: :cool:

If you go to a one piece rear driveshaft, make sure you cycle the suspension and check the fuel tank clearance. On the third gen XtraCab the shaft takes driver-side shift to clear the front corner of the fuel tank skid plate. I'm still well within the range of interference with my rear suspension, which is roughly 3" of rear lift. I dunno if when you go to 5" of lift if that solves it, although doing dual cases would change the layout.
I think for Kevin's intended use double cases and a one piece driveshaft are a foregone conclusion. The two-piece would be a source of endless trouble.

Red_Chili
08-25-2008, 08:32 AM
Oh, and Squishy ran 33s and 5.29s for a while (so did I). While the 22RE was kinda revvy, I liked it in the 4Runner (weight and thin air cost power). He didn't. On the '93 pickup on 33x10.50s I think I'm gonna give 4.88s a go.

DaveInDenver
08-25-2008, 01:16 PM
SASs are pretty much down to a proven formula now, Dave. C'mon over after you collect the parts and we will have it done in a weekend. And nobody said your generation of IFS was weak (idler arm notwithstanding)!

But only you can decide what you want. Dave, given the amount of DD duty your truck gets, the kinds of trails you do, etc. I'd say it is a borderline situation whether a SAS makes sense for ya.
An SAS for me does not fit in the cards, but I'm not against them in any way. If back in 2000 I had the choice of a used '91 like mine or the same with a solid axle, I would have almost definitely bought the live beam one. But I have no interest in running anything bigger than 33" tires and am trying to keep a lower C.o.Mass, lower overall height. As it is we have to lift the dog into the truck and getting into the back is a pain. Just have to decide to either cut the WilderNest loose or do something about lowering the thing to make it work for us better. Right now, after doing the Rubicon, I'm very much leaning towards backing down on the truck, getting back on 31" tires, maybe 4.56 gears, etc.

J Kimmel
08-25-2008, 03:36 PM
Right now, after doing the Rubicon, I'm very much leaning towards backing down on the truck, getting back on 31" tires, maybe 4.56 gears, etc.

a solid axle with decent suspension will fix that feeling :) IFS doesn't move much so the whole truck pitches, decent solid axle will keep tires planted and the body more stable.

DaveInDenver
08-25-2008, 03:59 PM
a solid axle with decent suspension will fix that feeling :) IFS doesn't move much so the whole truck pitches, decent solid axle will keep tires planted and the body more stable.
I didn't have a problem with the flex I get (for IFS). Not to get into a big deal about this, but trying to keep my truck within the height constraints, there isn't gonna be a huge improvement in articulation. If I could, I would lower my truck, but that's completely impossible. Even if I had the time and money to deal with it, going up another 2" or 3" and increasing tires to 35" ot 37" is simply not gonna happen. So the ball joint spacers and trimmed fenders, I think I've pretty much maximized my suspension as it is. For what I ask of the truck, I can't complain one bit.

http://www.armbrusterweb.com/tripsfolder/longtripsfolder/rubithon08folder/files/page75_15.jpg

The problem is my Rubithon was spent trying to fix blown rear leaf springs well enough to get home. Just too much stress for a vacation if you ask me, I get enough of that everyday between work and what's going on here with my mom. I'm not a crawler at heart, that's all it is.

Rock Dog
08-25-2008, 05:22 PM
Kevin,
Go with 5:29's from the get go.... I am now playing the switching route after several years of the 4:88's..... with 33" tires that is fine, but the 5:29's will allow the option to run either (options ate good :D).

I also have to agree with Bill on the Alcan springs (even though my orbit eyes squeak real bad). I did the F-250 shock towers, and moved the steering box as far forward as possible... SKY mfg has a cool BEEFY pitman arm in different drop down configurations for different high steer applications.. mine is almost flat.

I also agree the SAS is a proven mod, and mine works great as a DD (it is in the parking lot right now).
I am not petite, and find it a great truck.

i like the ARB's and the dual marlins are a MUST....
As you know i love wheeling my runner! and remember how the Cheesy one walked through the Con in his little red "dark sider" :D made it almost look easy!

bigbluefj
08-25-2008, 06:53 PM
Well i'll say this much you know how one thing lead's to the other so we'll wait and see what the inspection bring's thursday, oh by the way i already have a 5.29 RP in the house all ready bought it for the other project 40 that i have that is been sitting for year's it's one of those project's mini diffs 5.29 RP D300 NV4500 5.7 vortec etc... some year maybe...

Red_Chili
08-26-2008, 08:56 AM
I am not petite, and find it a great truck.

:lmao:
And there you have it.

Hmmm, you know how the 80 rage moved through the club like a tsunami? Maybe it's time for a mini rage?

Uncle Ben
08-26-2008, 09:27 AM
:lmao:
And there you have it.

Hmmm, you know how the 80 rage moved through the club like a tsunami? Maybe it's time for a mini rage?

Thats it....it's over! (Hey what do you expect from a mini rage?):rolleyes:

If your smaller then they're fine. Sitting in a 1-3 Gen reminds me of airline seating! :rolleyes:

bigbluefj
08-27-2008, 06:21 PM
[quote=Uncle Ben;84375]Thats it....it's over! (Hey what do you expect from a mini rage?):rolleyes:

If your smaller then they're fine. Sitting in a 1-3 Gen reminds me of airline seating! :rolleyes:[/quote

See i do fit..

bigbluefj
08-27-2008, 06:24 PM
a few more

Red_Chili
08-27-2008, 09:58 PM
Very nice, looks to be well cared-for.

bigbluefj
08-27-2008, 10:13 PM
We'll know tomorrow after work if i'm going to pick it up, say Bill is there any adjustment in the clutch on these truck's the clutch is at the top just seem's weired is ready to change or need's adjustment?

Red_Chili
08-28-2008, 07:42 AM
Just the actuator rod, controls free play before engaging the clutch master cylinder. If it has no play at all, you can actually close off the little hole beneath the reservoir even when released. When that happens, as the fluid heats and expands the clutch can actually start to slip.

It might just be different than a cruiser though... :p:

Uncle Ben
08-28-2008, 08:02 AM
Also, check the pedal pivots. It is pretty common for the bushings and or axle to get very worn out. Older FJ-40's had this issue along with mini's, early Tacos and even T-100's are all subject to the problem.

Rezarf
08-28-2008, 09:53 AM
I love the trayback!

Drew

Red_Chili
08-28-2008, 11:32 AM
I had an '89 XtraCab. I was a moron for ever getting rid of it.

leiniesred
08-28-2008, 01:18 PM
My thoughts on the mini truck. Keep in mind I have had the same 1989 4runner for almost 12 years.

You have the FJ40 for the big trails. I would keep the mini relatively stock as the more trail oriented you make it, the less streetable it becomes.

IFS vs. solid axle: I've had both on my truck. The solid axle is much "better" on the trails and I haven't broken it yet. I did break IFS parts on the trail. The solid axle is more "stable" than the IFS on the trail. Solid axle isn't trashing out 1 front tire like my IFS did. It doesn't ride any worse on the highway than my IFS did modified from stock. (cranked t-bars or bigger t-bars) None-the-Less, if you want >33 inch tires, I'd solid axle swap it. 33s or less = leave it IFS. Use the FJ40 on the trails you need big tires.

Gears: I've had 4.10, 4.88 and 5.29s. Factory 4.88s from a 4runner with factory 31s will be an easy bolt in and be usable up to about 33 inch tires. Anything bigger, I'd run 5.29s for sure. trick: the factory 4.88 housing will only accept factory 4.88 gears. As far as the differential carrier goes it is the SAME as a regular 8 inch. ARB, Lockright, detroit...all fit fine.

Lockers:
I've had open/open, open/lockright, lsd/lockright, lockright/lockright, ARB/lockright, and ARB/ARB. Not the cheap way to do it! ARB or toyota e-locker is the only one that doesn't sacrifice street for trail performance. You almost need a locker or 2 on the trail with IFS since you end up on 3 wheels so often. I would e-locker or ARB the back, and maybe even the front if I had the bread. A budget lunchbox locker in the back isn't bad at all for a daily driver. auto- Locked in the front, with IFS in the snow, it is a "handful." Don't waste your time with Limited Slips trying for more trailability without affecting streetability. "Limited slip means limited traction." -Smartboy

Armor: skip it. Drive carefully. The sills are already repaired. No big deal if you mess 'em up even more. I'd bob the back of the flatbed for better departure angles. I'd consider leaving enough frame to run 63 inch chevy springs back there and extending the shock hoops up through the bed for amazing rear flex on the cheap. I would also cut off the headache bar. extra weight and very little extra roll-over protection. keep it simple and light.

Transfercases. Ah, the best part of the mini's. I spend 90% of my wheelin' time in the single 2.28 case. When it gets big, I drop in the 2nd 4.7 t-case. When it gets really big, I usually need tire speed and I'm back in the single 2.28 case. I would opt for a single 4.7 reduction box re-gear. why? You get lower trail gears without modifying driveshafts, crossmembers, and floorboards. Twin stick it if you get the urge. 2low can be handy on the trail. You can always add another 2.28 case later if you get tired of wheeling with your friends in 4th gear all the time and want even MORE gear depth.

Tires: I've had 28, 31, 33, 35, and 36 inch tires on the same truck. I would build your rig for 33x10.50s maximum. Edit the flatbed to fit them and pound the fender seam flat to get them to fit the front if required. With the 33's in mind as a max, I would go 4.88 right off the bat. Probably factory 4.88's with an ARB in the back. Maybe later add the front ARB if I really enjoyed the IFS Mini truck on the trails.

Engine: 3rz swap only after the 22RE dies.

Red_Chili
08-28-2008, 01:34 PM
Um, the Chili has great street manners and it is far from stock. It was a design goal in fact. I regularly tow my popup with it across Wyoming or Colorado for hunting or for just camping. Works great. Handles well in the city too. Alcan springs are a big part of this, and so is trying to emulate the stock 1985 steering geometry with your SAS.

The 22RE struggled towing, but with a pickup you are likely lighter. It will pull 35s with 5.29s no problem. You can SAS it, drive it to Moab, wheel it, drive it back home, and do just fine, if you pick your components carefully. IMHO.

I would differ on armor. Rock sliders are cheap to fabricate and save a lot of body damage. Bumpers can be built fairly inexpensively too. You will have to plan on gradually reduced fuel capacity though. :lmao:

bigbluefj
08-28-2008, 04:43 PM
Fuel Capacity what's that i drive a 40 with a 5.7 vortec in it???

bigbluefj
08-28-2008, 05:17 PM
So just recieved the paper work from the inspection..

Break Light's in-op
2 Upper Ball Joint's
2 Lower Ball Joint's
Alignment
Clutch Worn Out
1 Rear U-Joint

So asking price of the truck is $4000.00 minus what ever the cost of part's and labour would be so i'm thinking $2000.00 the way it sit's what is the cost for said part's???

Kevin

AxleIke
08-28-2008, 10:01 PM
2000 may be a bit high.

The ball joints are about 30 each, so 120 there, the alignment should be about 50-60.

U joint, 30-50. Clutch- 300.

no idea on the brake lights, unless they are just burnt out bulbs.

Figuring labor, you'd get 1000 for the cost of repairs.

bigbluefj
08-28-2008, 10:03 PM
Ball joint's hard to do on these truck's the BOOK say's 5.7 H a side??


Kevin

nakman
08-28-2008, 10:47 PM
Is someone else swapping the ball joints?

btw dude, your speedometer is backwards- the MPH goes on the outside. :)

Red_Chili
08-29-2008, 06:53 AM
Ike- that's $2000 CDN.

The brake lights are either bulbs, or the brake light switch above the pedal. It can come unplugged. Ball joints are super easy with the proper pullers (torch, BJ puller, not pickle wrench) and an alignment is an alignment. But what do you care? You are cutting it all out. Just a bargaining chip. 5.7H book? Good grief. Somebody needs to revise a LOT of areas of the book. When a mechanic can log 20H in one 8H day, something ain't right.

Clutch is straightforward. Getting to the top bolts on the bellhousing is a pain unless you know the secret handshake (will reveal for :beer: ).

No way would I think all this would cut the value in half. $4KCDN is a mite rich, but not that much. Have you checked prices against other 4x4s, similar condition and year, for your area? These prices are not absolutes, tend to be relative to area demand.

Uncle Ben
08-29-2008, 07:23 AM
Ike- that's $2000 CDN.

The brake lights are either bulbs, or the brake light switch above the pedal. It can come unplugged. Ball joints are super easy with the proper pullers (torch, BJ puller, not pickle wrench) and an alignment is an alignment. But what do you care? You are cutting it all out. Just a bargaining chip. 5.7H book? Good grief. Somebody needs to revise a LOT of areas of the book. When a mechanic can log 20H in one 8H day, something ain't right.

Clutch is straightforward. Getting to the top bolts on the bellhousing is a pain unless you know the secret handshake (will reveal for :beer: ).

No way would I think all this would cut the value in half. $4KCDN is a mite rich, but not that much. Have you checked prices against other 4x4s, similar condition and year, for your area? These prices are not absolutes, tend to be relative to area demand.

Not much difference these days! :(

AxleIke
08-29-2008, 08:39 AM
Ball joints take very little time. An impact gun saves time on the big nut, the little ones are very simple.

I would estimate 1 hour per side.

Get this style ball joint puller. usually about 20-30 bucks, but WELL worth it if you've ever tried anything else

http://www.classiccougar.net/ViTech/controlvalve_files/image014.jpg

I dissagree with Bill on changing a clutch on a 22re. I thought it was very simple, and though the top bolts require some finesse, it can be done pretty easily. I am making my comparison to a clutch change on a 3.0L V6 motor, which may be the most hellacious project of all time. Obviously, its always a big job to change a clutch.

Red_Chili
08-29-2008, 08:46 AM
Ike, we don't actually disagree. Straightforward. But dang it, you cost me a beer revealing the top bolt thing... :lmao:

UB, I know the gap is closing but $3,781 sounds a lot less than $4K! Like, two ball joints less, plus change! Or maybe four aftermarket ball joints less! $1900 buys a pretty ratty mini these days! And that mini ain't ratty, not by a long shot.

bigbluefj
08-29-2008, 07:23 PM
Well here's the scoop if i want the truck it's 4G's as it sit's, as he is not going to move on the price reason being is that he bought it like that and put $1800.00 into to get it to run right so $4G's is where we sit for a price.

So what do the masses say you???

Kevin

bigbluefj
09-11-2008, 10:40 PM
So it offical i bought the truck today, now i need to pick a name for this project and sense some of the money for the truck came from my grandmother that passed away and left some money to me in her will in the form of a bond i think it would be fitting that this project be known as Project Granny aka (Hazel). Over the next little while i will do some mod's to the truck to keep it as daily driver/wheeling truck, any idea's will be welcomed as this is all new to me...

Kevin

Uncle Ben
09-12-2008, 06:39 AM
So it offical i bought the truck today, now i need to pick a name for this project and sense some of the money for the truck came from my grandmother that passed away and left some money to me in her will in the form of a bond i think it would be fitting that this project be known as Project Granny aka (Hazel). Over the next little while i will do some mod's to the truck to keep it as daily driver/wheeling truck, any idea's will be welcomed as this is all new to me...

Kevin

Sounds like that will do but I always believe a truck earns it's name rather that simply gets one. Hazel is pretty good though even though it is feminine. If it lives up to a feminine name it will always do what it wants and there is nothing you can do about it! :eek: ;):lmao:

Red_Chili
09-12-2008, 06:56 AM
If it lives up to a feminine name it will always do what it wants and there is nothing you can do about it! :eek: ;):lmao:
That's OK, UB, what a mini wants to do is run forever, save you money, and take you places you didn't think you could go for less than you feared.
:lmao:

nakman
09-12-2008, 09:07 AM
That's OK, UB, what a mini wants to do is run forever, save you money, and take you places you didn't think you could go for less than you feared.
:lmao:

Well that doesn't sound much like a woman then, does it. :lmao:


congrats on the pickup, Kevin! drive that sucker down to CM..

Red_Chili
09-12-2008, 09:12 AM
Doesn't SWMBO surf this site from time to time? :lmao: