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DaveInDenver
09-07-2008, 10:09 AM
So, say a fella let his wheel bearings get loose after the last repack. Visibly loose when he pushes on the wheels at the top and bottom. Then say they were this way for maybe as much as 2,000 miles. Say this fella opens the hubs, doesn't see any visible damage, bearings are still intact, absolutely no evidence of overheating, grease is good, no odd smells. The outer (all this fella has looked at so far) bearing and race seem OK other than being a bit looser in the cages than he remembers.

Then say the guy can tighten the hubs and gets a nice snug fit, wheel turns smoothly and there's no play. He gets about 8 lbs of pull on the hub with the bearings tightened. Think these bearings are potentially still OK? At least enough that he could make it another month or two, seeing as he's giving the truck a once over in prep for a 1,000 mile drive Tuesday morning back to St. Louis to be with his parents for a few weeks on mostly unpaid medical leave? Also realizing that the reason for the trip is intensely emotional and personal within the family, not to mention probably financially tough, and dealing with a truck is the last damn thing on his mind right now.

I guess what I'm asking is how do I know looking at wheel bearings that they are toast if they are not pitted or actually broken? I mean, how much can they wear and develop play before they are finished? And as they wear, if you can tighten the lock nuts down enough to take out any play and still get some preload on the hubs, are they still OK?

leiniesred
09-07-2008, 08:17 PM
If they are not rough,pitted, scorched, etc., they'll be fine.
I'm still on all of my original wheel bearings at 266,000 miles.

I found 1 so loose once, that it was killing my brake pedal height for about 6 months. I think it is possible for them to loosen up after a good wheelin' trip. I don't know how, but they do.

AxleIke
09-07-2008, 10:22 PM
If the wheel is not making a squealing noise when you drive, you will be fine. I'd replace it sometime, but I'd wait until its convenient.

Hulk
09-07-2008, 10:36 PM
You only put 2000 miles on them? It's unlikely that any damage has occurred. You can probably drive another 100k on them with no adverse effects.

Red_Chili
09-08-2008, 08:24 AM
My DD is currently running on front bearings that were also loose (for an unknown period of time, since I did not own it!). I bought new bearings because I doubted they were good. Know what? Upon disassembly I found fairly fresh grease and bearings that looked very good. The new bearings went into the spares drawer.

I seem to change the Chili's bearings every other repack; the outers get a bit discolored and the race track is quite visible. No pits, but I change 'em. I figger highway speeds pulling a camper, I don't need issues.

You're fine.

DaveInDenver
09-08-2008, 08:40 AM
Yeah, everything seemed alright on the drive in this morning. I'm pretty sure I put several years worth of wear on them having them so loose.

When I reassembled the hubs I think I was bottoming out the inner lock nut on the spindle. I got about 8 lbs of pull with the scale, but it sure felt like I was making that nut too tight. My guess is that the nut is bumped up against the shoulder on the spindle that transitions from the smooth to the threads. I could not make them any tighter, even if I wanted.

When I get back home tonight I will jack up the front end and if there's no looseness I'll feel better. The hubs here in the parking lot were stone cold, so there's not too much preload for sure. My rotors warped at some point between the Rubithon and today when I was listening closely (faint ticky squeak that goes away with a light pedal touch and I noticed yesterday that they looked discolored in a few spots) and need to get them replaced. They were at the limit when I did the brakes this spring, so I'm not surprised. I might work on this in St. Louis, but more likely when I get back I will be rebuilding the hubs anyway, new rotors, wheel bearings, etc.

Thanks, guys. Just discouraging doing a pre-road trip quick check and finding something like this. It's been one of those summers.

nakman
09-08-2008, 09:14 AM
..
When I reassembled the hubs I think I was bottoming out the inner lock nut on the spindle. I got about 8 lbs of pull with the scale, but it sure felt like I was making that nut too tight. My guess is that the nut is bumped up against the shoulder on the spindle that transitions from the smooth to the threads. I could not make them any tighter, even if I wanted.

.

Are you missing the thrust washer? Almost sounds like it.. or maybe you need a thicker one?

DaveInDenver
09-08-2008, 09:28 AM
Are you missing the thrust washer? Almost sounds like it.. or maybe you need a thicker one?
That seems like a reasonable guess, but all the pieces are in place and I verified that with my own eyes. When I repacked them last time I could tighten the hub completely until they pretty much wouldn't turn. I do my repacking more or less like the book, tighten to some torque to set the bearings, turn the hubs a few times, back off until the pull scale reads what I want. Not sure why they were so loose this time, but I'm guessing that beating my truck silly on the Rubicon probably has something to do with it. As far as being too thin, I didn't know that there were difference thickness thrust washers for the hubs. I do have some spare ones in the piles of parts, but I'm not sure I want to install two of them. Even as it is that outer lock nut comes about flush with the end of the spindle threads and those thrust washers are pretty thick.

Uncle Ben
09-08-2008, 09:35 AM
That seems like a reasonable guess, but all the pieces are in place and I verified that with my own eyes. When I repacked them last time I could tighten the hub completely until they pretty much wouldn't turn. I do my repacking more or less like the book, tighten to some torque to set the bearings, turn the hubs a few times, back off until the pull scale reads what I want. Not sure why they were so loose this time, but I'm guessing that beating my truck silly on the Rubicon probably has something to do with it. As far as being too thin, I didn't know that there were difference thickness thrust washers for the hubs. I do have some spare ones in the piles of parts, but I'm not sure I want to install two of them. Even as it is that outer lock nut comes about flush with the end of the spindle threads and those thrust washers are pretty thick.


Dave,
I'm sorry if I am repeating something that had already been said as I only skimmed through this tread. Are you saying that the wheel bearings have only loosened up after Rubicon? That is pretty typical if thats the case! I had repacked and adjusted mine prior to the 2300 mile road trip and rock beating and mine were notably loose when I got home too. Not that uncommon. If this is the only time this has done it then don't worry, but if it happens regularly then you might be tightening your preload too tight!

DaveInDenver
09-08-2008, 09:54 AM
Dave,
I'm sorry if I am repeating something that had already been said as I only skimmed through this tread. Are you saying that the wheel bearings have only loosened up after Rubicon? That is pretty typical if thats the case! I had repacked and adjusted mine prior to the 2300 mile road trip and rock beating and mine were notably loose when I got home too. Not that uncommon. If this is the only time this has done it then don't worry, but if it happens regularly then you might be tightening your preload too tight!
Yes, UB, I was doing some preventative maintenance this weekend and noticed that my wheel bearings were very loose. It's the first time I've been so lazy with staying on top of things, so it's kinda embarrassing. I usually am better about this stuff. I think the bottom line in my questions isn't so much that they were loose, but that Rubiton is probably when they developed the play and whether or not driving with loose wheel bearings since late June is likely to have worn them dangerously. I haven't had time to do much wheeling or long drives since then and since they looked OK, I just cleaned, packed in new grease and reassembled, fingers crossed.

Crash
09-08-2008, 10:45 AM
Ricardo recently found that scored thrust washers between the outer wheel bearings and lock nuts really played havoc with his preload settings. Setting the preload to FSM torque specs he noticed the fish scale readings were off the charts high. The thrust washers weren't scored too deeply but evidently enough to mess things up. He replaced with new thrust washers and readings all settled back to normal.

Uncle Ben
09-08-2008, 10:50 AM
Yes, UB, I was doing some preventative maintenance this weekend and noticed that my wheel bearings were very loose. It's the first time I've been so lazy with staying on top of things, so it's kinda embarrassing. I usually am better about this stuff. I think the bottom line in my questions isn't so much that they were loose, but that Rubiton is probably when they developed the play and whether or not driving with loose wheel bearings since late June is likely to have worn them dangerously. I haven't had time to do much wheeling or long drives since then and since they looked OK, I just cleaned, packed in new grease and reassembled, fingers crossed.

You probably only have 2-3k on them since Rubi? I doubt they have done any damage unless they are excessively loose.

Red_Chili
09-08-2008, 11:21 AM
You would see the dimples if they were damaged (IMHO, at least). No dimples = reinstall with confidence.

DaveInDenver
09-08-2008, 12:27 PM
You would see the dimples if they were damaged (IMHO, at least). No dimples = reinstall with confidence.
Dimples, not sure exactly what that means. Are you referring to the dimple in the races to keep them from spinning? I didn't take the races out and forgot to look on the inside of the bearings that I had out. I might have to delay my departure and pull the hubs apart again tonight, pack and hit the road later tomorrow morning. I don't want to risk a meltdown, eh?

BTW, NAPA seems to only carry Chinese and Mexican made wheel bearings now. Didn't have the Koyo number, so I could asking for them directly. But neither of the sets of bearings and races Havana Auto Parts had were NTN, Koyo, Timken or in fact even had visible manufacturer names. Just an ink printed (not even stamped) P/N and country of origin. But OTOH, they were cheap, $15 for a bearing and race. But they felt every bit as cheap as you'd expect of a $9 bearing. I would not guess they would make 200,000 miles, that's for sure. The hub seal was $19, US-made. Think I will stop and see Jerry on the way home tonight.

nakman
09-08-2008, 01:59 PM
I believe the dimples in question will be on OD's of the little round barrels- the things in the bearing that spin and reduce friction between the inner and outer races? If your bearings are bad, those surfaces can get pitting or dimples.

Red_Chili
09-08-2008, 02:00 PM
I got my Koyo bearings at NAPA across the street from Burt for far less than Toyota. Same bearing. Jerry told me it was even less than EMPLOYEE cost. They definitely still sell them. Ask for 'OEM' bearings.

Dimples = deformation in the races from loose bearings. The roller impacts the race resulting in a dimple.

DaveInDenver
09-08-2008, 02:10 PM
I got my Koyo bearings at NAPA across the street from Burt for far less than Toyota. Same bearing. Jerry told me it was even less than EMPLOYEE cost. They definitely still sell them. Ask for 'OEM' bearings.
The guy at Havana did not have the Koyo listing and told me without the original number he didn't have any way to look them up. I was willing to spend the money, so I'm not sure what his deal was. I will stop at our regular NAPA and ask them tonight. The one by Burt is where I usually get my junk, too, but I usually have the bearing out and can just give them the number. Shrug.
Dimples = deformation in the races from loose bearings. The roller impacts the race resulting in a dimple.
Oh, OK. As loose as they were it wouldn't surprise me if they are dimpled then. It's probably just gonna have to work, the HR department here still hasn't processed the FMLA documents. Sheesh. Once I get back to my parent's house I should have some time (doing 3 weeks on this leave). If they are dimpled, think I am pushing my luck asking them to go another 1,000 miles? Keeping in mind that 'high speed' is a relative term with my truck.

Red_Chili
09-08-2008, 03:23 PM
If they are dimpled, you are pushing your luck. Most likely they are not dimpled. Like I say, I fully expected mine to be, and they were great.

Like I say, don't ask for a Koyo P/N, ask NAPA for 'your OEM bearings for a 199x Toyota Pickup, 22RE, 4x4'. They will be the right ones. In a Koyo box even.

I also used to buy them at CarQuest, their 'Blue Line'. Same bearing. That may have changed.

If you get stuck, I have a full set in my drawer. Just replace them when able.

Hulk
09-08-2008, 03:45 PM
I seem to change the Chili's bearings every other repack; the outers get a bit discolored and the race track is quite visible. No pits, but I change 'em. I figger highway speeds pulling a camper, I don't need issues.

That's a lot of bearings. :eek:

DaveInDenver
09-08-2008, 03:46 PM
If they are dimpled, you are pushing your luck. Most likely they are not dimpled. Like I say, I fully expected mine to be, and they were great.

Like I say, don't ask for a Koyo P/N, ask NAPA for 'your OEM bearings for a 199x Toyota Pickup, 22RE, 4x4'. They will be the right ones. In a Koyo box even.

I also used to buy them at CarQuest, their 'Blue Line'. Same bearing. That may have changed.

If you get stuck, I have a full set in my drawer. Just replace them when able.
I will see what our NAPA says. Thanks for the offer, very much appreciated.

I have a full extra set of used parts (they are Koyo, probably the original ones) that came out when I put these in. The current set is OEM/Koyo from Jerry that put in about 50,000 miles ago. I'll probably bring along those if I can't get decent quality new parts. I can find a campground in Kansas tomorrow and do a field replacement easy enough if I have to.

Unless there is a disruption in the space-time continuum and all clocks stop for a few hours, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to proceed at risk since I need to get out of Denver as early as I can tomorrow morning. I have been driving around the past couple of days with the bearings as they are right now and they are not getting hot, making noise and seems to be tracking straight down the highway. Not only the filth of doing wheel bearings, but the chance of dinking a race or screwing up the preload the night before leaving is probably less good.

As stressful as this has been today, at least this and work has kept my mind from wandering.

Hulk
09-08-2008, 04:57 PM
I have been driving around the past couple of days with the bearings as they are right now and they are not getting hot, making noise and seems to be tracking straight down the highway.

Dave, drive to StL and back with them as they are now, and quit worrying about them. If you have parts in your toolbox, great. But don't waste time on your trip fixing something that ain't broke. You'll know if your wheel bearings start to go south -- you'll be able to hear it.

It's not an o-ring on the space shuttle. It's a wheel bearing on an old, super reliable Toyota truck that was made to be abused.

Uncle Ben
09-08-2008, 04:59 PM
Dave, drive to StL and back with them as they are now, and quit worrying about them. If you have parts in your toolbox, great. But don't waste time on your trip fixing something that ain't broke. You'll know if your wheel bearings start to go south -- you'll be able to hear it.

It's not an o-ring on the space shuttle. It's a wheel bearing on an old, super reliable Toyota truck that was made to be abused.

WERD! :bowdown::homer:

DaveInDenver
09-08-2008, 05:13 PM
Dave, drive to StL and back with them as they are now, and quit worrying about them. If you have parts in your toolbox, great. But don't waste time on your trip fixing something that ain't broke. You'll know if your wheel bearings start to go south -- you'll be able to hear it.

It's not an o-ring on the space shuttle. It's a wheel bearing on an old, super reliable Toyota truck that was made to be abused.
You my friend are a problem solving machine today (re: cut-n-turn thread).

Hulk
09-08-2008, 05:19 PM
Three weeks off, eh? Damn, I'm jealous. Are you going to spend all 3 weeks in MO?

There is a new pizza place in Kirkwood that is excellent. They have great beer on tap, too.

DaveInDenver
09-08-2008, 05:34 PM
Three weeks off, eh? Damn, I'm jealous. Are you going to spend all 3 weeks in MO?

There is a new pizza place in Kirkwood that is excellent. They have great beer on tap, too.
It ain't all peaches and cream. I sent you a PM.

Red_Chili
09-08-2008, 07:00 PM
That's a lot of bearings. :eek:
Set of bearings every 3-4 years? Why, how often do you do yours?
:lmao:
My point was, I am a long way from being the sort of person who glosses over maintenance issues. I have been accused of being rather compulsive myself :D. So if I am saying 'you'll be fine, just fine', it means something different than say, if Rudeboy said it. :lmao:

Then again, even Rudeboy hasn't spun a wheel bearing and his have 250K plus on them :eek:

wesintl
09-08-2008, 07:47 PM
unless your wheel bearings look like this... your fine.

DaveInDenver
09-08-2008, 09:27 PM
Dang Wes, mine look friggin' new compared to those... Wow.

BTW, NAPA on Broadway came through. Whole set in stock, blue Koyo boxes, at least 1/2 the good price I would get from Jerry. Got them, will throw them in the truck for good mojo and be off in the morning.

wesintl
09-08-2008, 10:10 PM
It's funny the pics make it look like a knuckle bearing but that is indeed the smaller of the two wheel bearings. If was off my 64 probably an original koyo. It would have went another 100k. the race was just as bad. I was going to just repack them and run em :hill:

Red_Chili
09-09-2008, 07:32 AM
It would have went another 100k.
Uh-huh.
















:p: You definitely got your money's worth out of those. Did it spin on the knuckle? Kind of a roller bearing/plain bearing combo?? :lmao:

Red_Chili
09-09-2008, 07:33 AM
BTW, NAPA on Broadway came through. Whole set in stock, blue Koyo boxes, at least 1/2 the good price I would get from Jerry. Got them, will throw them in the truck for good mojo and be off in the morning.
:thumb:
You owe me a Guinness. Hope all goes well on your trip...

Hulk
09-09-2008, 11:58 AM
Set of bearings every 3-4 years? Why, how often do you do yours?

Once a decade, unless they are an actual problem. Anything more is a symptom of OCD.

:D

Red_Chili
09-09-2008, 12:07 PM
Ya think?

Hey, it ups my credibility when I say "don't worry boudit" !!!!

wesintl
09-09-2008, 12:37 PM
:p: You definitely got your money's worth out of those. Did it spin on the knuckle? Kind of a roller bearing/plain bearing combo?? :lmao:

only 102k. The knuckle had a good mix of gear oil and lube. I wasn't planning to replace the wheel bearings but that one looked a little rough. I'm sure there are plenty of cruisers running across africa or aus with a bearing that looks like that. I don't think it spun on the knuckle. I'm sure I'd remember if it was the case but that was some 2 years ago when I did the work. I had to keep that bearing around though:eek: