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View Full Version : Bilsteins Here We Come


Bikeman
09-17-2008, 11:57 AM
A deal at $22/pair:
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm255/Bikeman_Colorado/IMG_1612.jpg

Rezarf
09-17-2008, 12:04 PM
Where did you get those, I could use a pair on the trailer.

thanks!

Bikeman
09-17-2008, 12:30 PM
4 Wheel Parts.

FJBen
09-17-2008, 01:14 PM
Hope I"M not raining on your parade...

but
$1.98
http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/shop/item.aspx?itemid=482
http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/images/AA-244-A.jpg


You still need the bolts. But I made some of these when someone pointed this option out. MUCH easier.

Bikeman
09-17-2008, 02:40 PM
Good find. Beefy enough?

nakman
09-17-2008, 03:00 PM
Why Bilsteins, anyway? how are they different from/better than OME L shocks?

Bikeman
09-17-2008, 03:38 PM
I want to find the ideal damping properties I need for a "light" 80 that has 5" of lift, for the best possible ride, whether it's rock crawling in CO or driving "fast" in the AZ desert or on choppy, rutted washboard dirt roads anywhere.

Bilstein 7100's are the goal, so they can be revalved, and have better anti-fade properties with a remote reservoir-style system. If an OME shock is $90, why not have a rebuildable, revalvable shock for less than twice the price?

Even if I have to ditch the Slee 4" springs for lighter spring rates found in FOR or Downey with 2" spring spacers to get the height, I will do so.

I am even looking at F-O-A off road shocks. They have a 2.5" reservoir shock for under $200 each.

I am first going to experiment with some Bilstein 5125 10" socks with 255/70 valving to see if I can get away with lighter valving than some are running on 7100's (400/100), since my 80 is lighter than others. If that doesn't work, I'll probably go the 7100 route, try 360/80 valving and go from there. Again, if I don't like the characteristics of a heavy sprung/damped 80, I will go with a lighter spring rate and lighter damping.

I will be looking like a used shock warehouse very soon, and will be selling my 3 week old OME "L" shocks for a good deal.

subzali
09-17-2008, 03:41 PM
$22/pair? Is that a typo?

nakman
09-17-2008, 03:49 PM
price is for the adapter plates, not the shocks.


I had 5125's on a 40 and thought they did the job well. But after seeing a presentation on single wall vs. double wall shocks, I was fairly convinced the double walls were the way to go for an expedition rig. But no, I've never dented one (efforts involved taking them off doesn't count)

Nay
09-17-2008, 04:01 PM
I'd go straight to the 7100's since part of your goal is high speed AZ driving. The pin style mount with large bushings on OME is not ideal for damping, because the bushings will allow movement independent of the shocks - in my experience, including pin style OME mounted shocks on a much lighter truck, any movement of the shock body itself at speed on rough roads both builds heat and is very bushing longevity unfriendly (guys in Oz have reported regular OME bushing failure on MUD). I had a loose eye adapter with my Bilsteins at one point, and that shock was much hotter than the more rigid mount just from highway use.

That's why for me, going to a rigid eye to eye mount (and properly installing it :hill:) is the first upgrade.

The 7100's use a spherical end, whereas the 5100's use a poly bushing (still better than a pin style mount). The 7100 spherical end with eye adapter means a completely rigid shock mount. With the remote reservoir, this mount style is going to be ideal for fade resistance.

I'd go straight to 380/80 in the rear and consider 255/70 up front. My valving is 168/73 and I think it is nice up front on a stated spring rate of ~227, whereas that rate is pretty light for a stated rear rate of ~250. The rear of the 80 really needs more damping than the front even with a higher spring rate.

Also, have you looked into the Fox 2.0's? I hear good things about them even compared to the 7100's. What I like about the 7100's is the short body option, gives you all kinds of suspension tuning options in terms of up/down travel.

FJBen
09-17-2008, 04:59 PM
I want to find the ideal damping properties I need for a "light" 80 that has 5" of lift, for the best possible ride, whether it's rock crawling in CO or driving "fast" in the AZ desert or on choppy, rutted washboard dirt roads anywhere.

Bilstein 7100's are the goal, so they can be revalved, and have better anti-fade properties with a remote reservoir-style system. If an OME shock is $90, why not have a rebuildable, revalvable shock for less than twice the price?

Even if I have to ditch the Slee 4" springs for lighter spring rates found in FOR or Downey with 2" spring spacers to get the height, I will do so.

I am even looking at F-O-A off road shocks. They have a 2.5" reservoir shock for under $200 each.

I am first going to experiment with some Bilstein 5125 10" socks with 255/70 valving to see if I can get away with lighter valving than some are running on 7100's (400/100), since my 80 is lighter than others. If that doesn't work, I'll probably go the 7100 route, try 360/80 valving and go from there. Again, if I don't like the characteristics of a heavy sprung/damped 80, I will go with a lighter spring rate and lighter damping.

I will be looking like a used shock warehouse very soon, and will be selling my 3 week old OME "L" shocks for a good deal.

I can tell ya right now the bilstein 5125's aren't going to work well with an 80. I ran those and I always had an extra bounce after a bump/dip. You need to go higher for sure.

I"d go with the 7100's at least instead of paying for shipping back and fourth on different shocks and all you time. Just revalve them.

Bikeman
09-17-2008, 05:16 PM
Also, have you looked into the Fox 2.0's? I hear good things about them even compared to the 7100's. What I like about the 7100's is the short body option, gives you all kinds of suspension tuning options in terms of up/down travel.

If their off road dept. is as arrogant as their mtb dept., I don't want to deal with Fox.

Wow, that's light damping in the front, must be a light spring. Better not add a winch:D.

Bikeman
09-17-2008, 05:20 PM
I can tell ya right now the bilstein 5125's aren't going to work well with an 80. I ran those and I always had an extra bounce after a bump/dip. You need to go higher for sure.

I"d go with the 7100's at least instead of paying for shipping back and fourth on different shocks and all you time. Just revalve them.

Ben, did you have alot of weight in the back- I recall your old 80 had at least a big bumper with a tire carrier? Any sub tank or drawers? My 80 has the frame bobbed, no spare tire crossmember, and was light enough that I got 3.5" of lift out of 863 springs.

FJBen
09-18-2008, 09:10 AM
Ben, did you have alot of weight in the back- I recall your old 80 had at least a big bumper with a tire carrier? Any sub tank or drawers? My 80 has the frame bobbed, no spare tire crossmember, and was light enough that I got 3.5" of lift out of 863 springs.

All I had was a shaved TJM bumper, trimmed and light. and the spare. I got over 4.5" out of the J springs. No 3rd row seats or anything else in the back. The shocks were nicer feeling than the OME's. Definitely less harsh. I just couldn't stand the extra bounce/squishy that I got from a dip.

I know Sam on ih8mud has FOR springs and wasn't completely happy with the shock rate. But they are WAAAAAY heavy. They also said it "bounced"

Nay does yours do this same thing? You go into a dip, rear end goes down, rebounds up and then back down...and up to level again. It's not like it bounces like crazy...just an extra little bounce.

Nay
09-18-2008, 10:17 AM
All I had was a shaved TJM bumper, trimmed and light. and the spare. I got over 4.5" out of the J springs. No 3rd row seats or anything else in the back. The shocks were nicer feeling than the OME's. Definitely less harsh. I just couldn't stand the extra bounce/squishy that I got from a dip.

I know Sam on ih8mud has FOR springs and wasn't completely happy with the shock rate. But they are WAAAAAY heavy. They also said it "bounced"

Nay does yours do this same thing? You go into a dip, rear end goes down, rebounds up and then back down...and up to level again. It's not like it bounces like crazy...just an extra little bounce.

Yes, the FOR damping is very light. 168/73 up front, and he has custom valving in the rear, but told me that it is only a couple percent stiffer. My rears are also 168/73 (I don't have the final custom rear shocks), and on a good dip I'll get extra bounce in the rear. In essence, that means there isn't full rebound control.

I ran 255/70 5125's on my old XJ, and they were still very supple shocks even with some beefy leaf springs in the rear. I don't think the front needs the 360/80 rate, but the rear would absolutely use it.

The FOR springs (227/254) are comparable in stated rate to OME J (220/250), but it's a differently designed and manufactured spring. Don't want to spark another debate here on springs, just passing along some info.

Given both the Slee and OME springs were designed for use with OME shocks and their higher valving, I think in using Bilsteins you are going to want those higher rates or you'll end up with some bounce.

Nay
09-18-2008, 10:26 AM
Wow, that's light damping in the front, must be a light spring. Better not add a winch:D.

The springs handle load extremely well, I did some load testing that could be found by searching on MUD and that I won't drag back into the mud (pun?) here :D. The damping, however, could be significantly altered and improved upon depending on your usage.

As I've said, I plan to run the 10" SB 7100 at some point - that's the only shock that is as short in compressed length as mine with adjustable valving. Everything else gets too long at my lift height and I start having coil issues.

None of this matters of course, you don't have FOR springs, but hopefully it helps assess your damping goals so you don't have to try a number of different shocks.

Bikeman
09-18-2008, 11:09 AM
Ok, So I'm thinking 360/80 in the back and 275/78 in the front to start, 10", regular bodies. I think at my height and droop measurements, I can always add more bump stop.

Nay
09-18-2008, 11:20 AM
Ok, So I'm thinking 360/80 in the back and 275/78 in the front to start, 10", regular bodies. I think at my height and droop measurements, I can always add more bump stop.

Yup, should be perfect for a 5" lift, you may even be able to raise the rear mounts a bit to keep a 50/50 travel ratio.

Bikeman
09-18-2008, 11:46 AM
I forgot, I need to fab my rear lower mounts.

60wag
09-18-2008, 01:02 PM
Someone talked me into those adapters way back when I had my blue 60. It was a dumb move in that it shortened the shock travel significantly.

Bikeman
09-18-2008, 01:18 PM
Someone talked me into those adapters way back when I had my blue 60. It was a dumb move in that it shortened the shock travel significantly.

The 80's have a wee bit more travel:D. There are guys with my size lift that are maxing out 14" travel shocks and losing a coil at the same time.

Bikeman
09-19-2008, 01:54 PM
I ordered the fronts today, 255/70 valving, 7100 with reservoirs, 10" standard body.

I am currently working on the rear lower mount. I need to find a piece of tube .75" or 19mm I.D. to fit over the factory mount. I will then weld on a "U" to that to accept a .5" bolt for the heim ends of the shock eyes.

Bikeman
10-01-2008, 04:37 PM
Well 4WP dropped the ball. It has been almost 2 weeks and they screwed up 3 times. I should have known better to go with them. I will try eshocks.com tomorrow.

Nay
10-02-2008, 07:32 AM
I ordered the fronts today, 255/70 valving, 7100 with reservoirs, 10" standard body.

I am currently working on the rear lower mount. I need to find a piece of tube .75" or 19mm I.D. to fit over the factory mount. I will then weld on a "U" to that to accept a .5" bolt for the heim ends of the shock eyes.

That's a good easy solution for raising the rear shock mount slightly and adapting for the 1/2" eye. I have you considered just cutting and welding on a new grade 8 1/2" bolt? You'll achieve some clearance since you are raising the mount either way.

High Country 4x4 sells Bilstein, you could check with them.

Nay
10-02-2008, 07:38 AM
Someone talked me into those adapters way back when I had my blue 60. It was a dumb move in that it shortened the shock travel significantly.

Eye adapters can't shorten your shock travel, it's the same shock. They will compress the shock 3" if you have them on both ends. In effect, what you are doing is spacing down shock travel just as if you were using a much longer shock with a longer compressed length, but you don't acquire the additional droop. You do need enough lift to make this work so you don't end up with too little up travel, though.

On the 80 I favor this approach, because the front end isn't very flexible, and ending up very long travel only on one end may unbalance the suspension and will increase tire fitment problems on an 80 because adding droop on the corner will increase the angle of the tire into the wheel well, which is exactly where 80's have rubbing problems on the inner frame and wheel well.

Bikeman
10-02-2008, 12:46 PM
I just scored 2-Fox 2.0 resi's, 10" travel, NIB for $140 ea shipped. I am glad I found a nitro source to charge them. Same dimensions as the 7100's, non-short body. I like the steel-braided hoses better than what comes stock on the billies.

Now to find a good deal on a second pair.

FJBen
10-02-2008, 02:17 PM
where did ya score that deal? what is the valving on those?

Bikeman
10-02-2008, 02:38 PM
I got them off fleabay from Rough Country. The valving is for heavy-duty single-shock applications, but I can easily valve them to whatever.

Nay
10-03-2008, 12:21 PM
I just scored 2-Fox 2.0 resi's, 10" travel, NIB for $140 ea shipped. I am glad I found a nitro source to charge them. Same dimensions as the 7100's, non-short body. I like the steel-braided hoses better than what comes stock on the billies.

Now to find a good deal on a second pair.

Nice score :thumb:

Bikeman
10-16-2008, 07:02 PM
I finally received the fronts, Fox 2.0 10" travel, 26" extended, 30 compression, 70 rebound:
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm255/Bikeman_Colorado/IMG_1654.jpg
With eye adapters, Pro Crap brand, copared lengths to "L" shocks:
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm255/Bikeman_Colorado/IMG_1655.jpg
Mounted, with a simple resi mount, uncomplicated:
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm255/Bikeman_Colorado/IMG_1656.jpg
OMG!!!! What a difference in the ride! No more harshness, no more shocks with too much compression damping. Tested them on dirt roads an shoulders. The Spooky night run will be perfect to test 'em. I wish I had the rears. Rears to follow in November.

Bikeman
10-17-2008, 11:32 AM
I still can't believe the ride:thumb:. No more harshness from shocks that have too much compression damping.

I ordered the rears today from Downsouth Motorsports in CA. The guy I spoke with is going to do a 35/80 valving and change the 1/2" heims to polys, 3/4" for the rear lowers, and a 1/2" seamless bushing in a 5/8" poly for the upper, so the road grime won't kill them. With just the upper adapters for eyes, they will be a bolt-in affair:).

I will prolly change the fronts to poly bushings if the road grime starts killing the lower heim.

What's really cool, is that he can take a Fox shock that was designed for a vehicle-specific application, i.e., stud mounts, and valve them so they would directly bolt on without any adapters. Way cool.

Nay
10-20-2008, 09:38 AM
Awesome that you can order up your valving and custom poly bushings, going to be a sweet setup :thumb:

Bikeman
10-21-2008, 07:58 PM
I got the rears today, oh what a difference in the ride. No harshness from OME. On the wheeling trip this last weekend, there is a huge night and day difference. I will mount the resi where it is out of the way of the LCA:
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm255/Bikeman_Colorado/FoxShoxRear.jpg

Hulk
10-22-2008, 12:21 AM
Hmmm. It would be interesting to drive your 80 around the block. What springs are you running to get 5.5" of lift?

Uncle Ben
10-22-2008, 12:37 AM
Hmmm. It would be interesting to drive your 80 around the block. What springs are you running to get 5.5" of lift?

Gray springs = Christo's 6" would be my guess....

Bikeman
10-22-2008, 08:02 AM
4" coils with 1" spacers. I thought the 6" coils could give too much lift. I got an extra .5" out of the rears.

Hulk
10-22-2008, 09:18 AM
OK, so you're set up fairly similar to my 80 (w/o the spacers). Do you notice the difference in ride at 40 mph? Does it require hwy speed?

Bikeman
10-22-2008, 09:27 AM
Ther is an absolutely huge difference in the ride at all speeds, more so at speeds less than highway, like driving around town.

All the chatter and choppiness from the concrete roads in the Ranch are barely noticable now, if non-existant.

Tch2fly
10-22-2008, 09:41 AM
All the chatter and choppiness from the concrete roads in the Ranch are barely noticable now, if non-existant.:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

If that is the case I'm getting a set for the Prius and the Tacoma :thumb:

Nay
10-23-2008, 03:11 PM
All the chatter and choppiness from the concrete roads in the Ranch are barely noticable now, if non-existant.

Highlands Ranch has choppy roads? I had never noticed :D