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subzali
10-13-2008, 08:57 AM
My engine has been having a hard time getting up to operating temperature since before Cruise Moab and I can't figure it out. I just put a new t-stat, o-ring and gasket in and it's a little better but not much :rant:

Before I search endless threads on MUD for other solutions, does anybody have any thoughts? I need HEAT for the Spooky Night Run!

treerootCO
10-13-2008, 09:14 AM
Determine what the operating temperature of your engine is first. If the engine is operating at 170+ then your heater should work. Use a lazer temp gauge or something other than your gauge. I cleaned out my heater core and found a solid inch of dog hair on top. The lines can be flushed with a garden hose.

treerootCO
10-13-2008, 09:18 AM
http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/57357-friendly-reminder-clean-your-heater-core.html

Crash
10-13-2008, 10:01 AM
Determine what the operating temperature of your engine is first. If the engine is operating at 170+ then your heater should work. Use a lazer temp gauge or something other than your gauge. I cleaned out my heater core and found a solid inch of dog hair on top. The lines can be flushed with a garden hose.

Sure, blame it on dogs you cat person!! :hill:
Hey, clean out your pm box - I tried to leave a message and couldn't.

subzali
10-13-2008, 10:15 AM
Yeah, and you have to change your sig line cause the Ptarmigan don't look like that no mo'! :hill:

I can check my heater core for hair, but I've had it apart the last two summers/falls/winters so it should be pretty clean unless something got into it over the past couple of months. I've done the muriatic acid treatment several times on the tubes, so they should be clean as well.

I'm not understanding how my engine is overcooling since I have the t-stat in correctly with the o-ring etc. I should probably take the t-stat out and check to make sure it opens and closes. Oy :rolleyes:

If I can't figure it out I'm just going to put cardboard in front of the radiator just for the Spooky Night Run so we have some heat!

subzali
10-13-2008, 10:51 AM
Maybe I need to lean out the fuel a little bit? It might be running a little on the rich side...

subzali
10-13-2008, 12:03 PM
Or maybe my cooling system needs to be burped?

rover67
10-13-2008, 10:56 PM
i dunno, but maybe the t-stat is sticking open?? even though it's new....

does the rad hose stay cool till the truck warms up, or does it slowly warm up with the truck?

Rzeppa
10-13-2008, 10:59 PM
Determine what the operating temperature of your engine is first. If the engine is operating at 170+ then your heater should work. Use a lazer temp gauge or something other than your gauge. I cleaned out my heater core and found a solid inch of dog hair on top. The lines can be flushed with a garden hose.

Don't forget pine needles and cat hair!

http://rzeppa.org/tech/heater.jpg

subzali
10-14-2008, 08:22 AM
I'll pull the inlet duct to the heater core and check for obstructions and I'm going to replace the thermostat tonight (I happen to have a new spare a just bought as well that I just remembered). Has anyone ever had to double o-ring the top of the thermostat?

treerootCO
10-14-2008, 09:22 AM
Running lean or rich will run hot. You can make your exhaust glow either way. You need to determine the operating temperature of your engine before you tear into it. If you don't want to get into it. Grab a hold of your radiator at operating temperature. If it burns you, then you have heat. Grab the hoses going into the heater core and compare the hotness. Not so hot, you need to find out why. If I had to guess, the silly gate valve on the back of the engine is closed.

subzali
10-14-2008, 09:52 AM
Yeah, first I've got to figure out why my engine does not appear to be up to operating temperature. I have a laser thermometer I borrowed that should help with that. Maybe my gauge is not 100% accurate. Once I determine whether or not my engine is actually reaching operating temperature then I have to find out why my heater is blowing cold. They may be separate issues. Oy ve.

Rzeppa
10-14-2008, 06:00 PM
I'll pull the inlet duct to the heater core and check for obstructions and I'm going to replace the thermostat tonight (I happen to have a new spare a just bought as well that I just remembered). Has anyone ever had to double o-ring the top of the thermostat?

YES! I believe I posted it here a while back; I had gotten a super-duper rubber gasket to go between the top and bottom t-stat housing halves, and it prevented the top o-ring (Toyota parts jargon, it's actually a rectangular cross section) from preventing coolant from bypassing the t-stat. Added another on and presto-voila!

subzali
10-15-2008, 07:09 AM
I'm using the OEM gasket for the t-stat housing.

I swapped t-stats last night with the other new-in-the-box one I had, didn't really change anything. I put a 12" x 18" piece of cardboard on front of the radiator and now the engine stays in the middle range whether idleing or on the highway. I don't want to use it for long; I think I will try the double o-ring trick tonight and see if that works.

I messed with the heater valve a little bit and got coolant to flow back into the heater cores. The plunger must not have been clearing the whole way. The heater worked okay for a little while, but I know it can get much hotter than it was. I have done the muriatic acid treatment on this core about 3 or 4 times, so I think it should be nice and clear on the inside. What happens now is that it will be hot (warm) for a few seconds and then gradually cool down until it's blowing cool, even though I touch the pipes going to and from the core and they're wicked hot. The heater box also used to get pretty warm to the touch, from what I remember, and that's not really happening now either.

Also, at idle the heater blows cold, but if I rev up the engine a bit it warms up some more. I'm guessing that is related to the water pump forcing more coolant through those pipes. I'm thinking maybe I still have some air trapped in those lines somewhere that's causing problems. I have to pull the inlet duct first though and see if there's any obstructions.

subzali
10-15-2008, 05:08 PM
No obstructions on the heater core; clean as a whistle. So maybe I have an obstruction inside the core or somehow I'm not getting a regular flow of coolant to the core.

I went out at lunch and started putting on a second o-ring on top of the t-stat. When I put the t-stat housing back on it was spaced off the other half by about the thickness of the extra o-ring I had put on and I quickly realized that Toyota engineered this system to work in a particular way and that this is not my problem; if I were to try it I would not be able to seal the t-stat housing properly. So I quickly tucked tail and ran and am thinking about the other options.

The only thing I can really figure is that I have had two t-stats that are sticking open; only thing is it doesn't seem like they're open when I've pulled them out and looked at them.

Without cardboard, my radiator is warm but not really as hot as it should be. With cardboard I was able to get it up to normal operating temperature so that I could only touch it for a brief moment.

Here's another question though - with the laser thermometer most of my radiator was dead cold (like 50-80 degrees) while the driver's side was like 120-150 degrees, and it sloped really fast. So it's like most or all of my coolant is only going through one side of the radiator, but I would think that if that were the case I would have an overheating problem, not an overcooling problem...

A guy at work told me today too that most t-stats stick closed if they stick at all; in my experience that has not been the case but it's just another point of discussion I guess.

Sigh. How often does one come across the problem of TOO MUCH cooling with the factory system?

And how come only a couple people have responded to this thread? Are y'all laughing at me for making this too hard? Or did I finally annoy you enough so that everyone's ignoring me? :D Is the answer obvious but I'm just missing it? Or is it really a problem nobody really has any comment on?

Shark Bait
10-15-2008, 05:43 PM
Matt, Do you have a fan clutch? Is it maybe not dis-engaging? Thermostats can be bad, even out of the box. If you run it without the thermostat does it behave any differently? You can still get replacement heater valves from SOR. I don't think they are too expensive.

You're just too cool, Matt. :cool::lmao:

treerootCO
10-15-2008, 07:27 PM
I don't care how good your cooling system is. An internal combustion engine will produce enough heat enough to warm your feet! Do you have both the front and rear heater? That would rule out a core. Your operating temperature is 100+ no matter how good it is. 100+ degrees is warm.

subzali
10-15-2008, 07:56 PM
So I think I was shooting myself in the foot with the cardboard. I took it out at lunch just to see what would happen (I guess following the theory that Toyota engineered it to work a certain way so I shouldn't mess with it) and I had heat all the way home and for the extra 1/2 hour or so I was driving around. The temp. gauge was still showing low, but I'm convinced my engine is fine; I think I have a bad ground or something which has caused the temp. gauge (and the fuel gauge, somehow they are connected) to work somewhat intermittently and apparently to read low in this case. I just think the system had to work out some of its own kinks to get good coolant flow and all the air bubbles out etc.

With the cardboard, the engine was probably on the high side of the temp. range, so the t-stat was probably just open the whole time and maybe that's the difference I felt in the heater last night.

Oh well, thanks Mike and Jeff for the tips on the heater, and Hatfield and Crash and Marco for showing moral support; now on to the next thing that's been bothering me :rolleyes:

Crash
10-15-2008, 08:53 PM
We're waiting!

subzali
10-15-2008, 08:56 PM
It's in one of the other threads in tech... ;)

And no, I don't have a fan clutch - this year didn't come with one.

rover67
10-15-2008, 10:47 PM
yeah, no sweat man..

you know you can throw the thermosat in boiling water and it should open... easy way to check it.

I wonder if it is your guage not reading right. throw in a cheap mechanical gauge just to see.

subzali
10-16-2008, 08:02 AM
So I don't want to keep beating this dead horse, but...

The radiator flow is from bottom to top right? So if I take temperatures across the radiator they should be more or less the same?

With the laser thermometer about 2/3 of the width of the radiator is at about 50 degrees when the truck is heated up. On the driver's side it's at about 140 degrees, with a steep gradient. So my guess is that I have some blocked passages, but it's not overheating so I don't know?

Man this is like having mood swings, back and forth and it doesn't make sense...

DaveInDenver
10-16-2008, 08:27 AM
The radiator flow is from bottom to top right? So if I take temperatures across the radiator they should be more or less the same?
Radiators flow in at the top and out at the bottom. IOW, hot coolant in at the top and cooled coolant out at the bottom. Heat rises and having the flow in at the bottom would be working against the efficiency of the radiator. There should be a temp gradient across the radiator, otherwise it's not working. But if it's cool coming in and you're overheating, then the problem is something like the t-stat, heater core, coolant passages, etc. It's got to come into the radiator hot.

This is a cross flow radiator and a gradient like this would indicate a bad cross flow, but using your imagination the temp gradient on a traditional radiator should look like this.

http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200210/rad_bad.png

subzali
10-16-2008, 12:16 PM
Righto about working against the efficiency of the radiator, so it has to be from top to bottom flow. Imagine though that the gradient is right-to-left, that's what's happening. And it's a very steep one, one that's mostly cool all the way across the width of the radiator, but then sharply increases on the inlet (driver's) side.

Dave - where why and how do you always have these fancy graphics to perfectly illustrate what you're talking about?

subzali
10-16-2008, 12:41 PM
That's what I measured last time I check a couple nights ago. And that's what's confusing me now, because if some passages are blocked then I should be having overheating issues.

Your PE must be showing through because I cannot get anything like that to show up on Google :p:

DaveInDenver
10-16-2008, 12:53 PM
That's what I measured last time I check a couple nights ago. And that's what's confusing me now, because if some passages are blocked then I should be having overheating issues.
Not necessarily, if the radiator is big enough you might not overheat. Also if the heat load is small enough or vertical flow is particularly good, the gradient could certainly not be so ideal. Also, since the inlet and outlet are offset, there will be a rotation of the gradient, too. The top inlet side will be a bit warmer than the other side of the tank, for example. Conceptually, the key is that the top should be hot, the bottom should be cooler and the temperature horizontally should be fairly consistent. Naturally in the real world the actual measured temps won't look like a textbook. If the temp entering the radiator is somewhere above the opening temp of the t-stat, that is right. If the exiting temp of the coolant from the radiator is significantly colder, that is also good. If you didn't overheat in the summer, then your radiator could be fine.

Rzeppa
10-16-2008, 04:46 PM
Thermodynamics/hydraulics of Land Cruiser Radiators: The cores (passages) are vertical. The hot coolant from the t-stat from the head comes in at the top driver's side corner. Exits the bottom (opposite) passenger side corner. It would be totally expected that the driver's side would be hotter than the passenger side. I haven't done an IR scan, but that's what I would expect. Liquid will follow the laws of hydraulics, and it's temperature will follow the laws of thermodynamics. The highest pressure of the liquid (coolant) will be where it comes in, and that is where flow will be greatest as a result. Thus, more (and hotter coolant) will flow downward through the cores at the inlet side, resulting in greater delta T's, and a higher T reading on an IR scan. Also something to take into consideration is that because the (passenger) side will have a lower flow rate through the cores, that is where sediment and deposits may build up, further exacerbating the difference in T's from left to right by decreasing the thermal conductivity in those passages.

In any case, the real question is, what's the actual coolant temperature at the t-stat??? That's really all that matters. Once that question is answered, then the troubleshooting goes down the list.

Rezarf
10-16-2008, 06:38 PM
Matt- I replaced my radiator with a 4 core from radiator barn. My gauge shows really low too, but I always have good heat.

Trusting 32 year old factory gauges for anything other than general read-outs is kinda foolish in my opinion. Are you connected at the temp sensor, maybe it could use a replacing?

I don't worry about it, my truck runs fine, and heats fine too.

Sorry didn't catch this till now.

Drew

treerootCO
10-16-2008, 06:47 PM
...In any case, the real question is, what's the actual coolant temperature at the t-stat??? That's really all that matters. Once that question is answered, then the troubleshooting goes down the list.

I would guess 140.

subzali
10-16-2008, 09:32 PM
The t-stat is an 82 degree C, which is about 180 F.

leiniesred
11-12-2008, 09:22 AM
Matt: I used to freeze my nuts off in a Jeep CJ5 that never seemed to warm up. Tried a bunch of gauges and temp senders and stuff. Drove around with a budweiser box stuck behind the grill in the winter to keep the ice buildup on the floorboards down. The gauge barely got off the peg.

One spring day, I put in a hot thermostat (212?) on a whim. The temp gauge moved off of C and 3/4 of the way to H and I had real live HEAT in the rig for the first time EVER! I went back to NAPA and got one rated about 200 degrees. The gauge planted itself right in the middle. Cabin heat was still great too. I wish I had tried that 2 years sooner.

The lesson: Hotter T-stat fixed everything. 180 seems pretty darn cold to me, even for vintage stuff running low speeds and high altitudes.

(Might be time to put a fan clutch back on too.)

subzali
11-12-2008, 01:11 PM
Fan clutch BACK on? ha ha - they never came with a fan clutch, this model year. It's working better now, I think my temp. sensor is messed up a little bit so the gauge is reading low, but my heater is blowing plenty hot these days. It seems like there's a plug or something that's getting stuck in the valve in the engine; if it starts blowing cold I just have to pop the hood and shake the valve and then it heats up again. I have no idea...

Basically, I think I'm out of the woods right now, I will think about other options if the problem persists. Thanks everybody!

farnhamstj
11-15-2008, 09:25 AM
Have you tried putting on the hard top?:lmao:

subzali
11-15-2008, 10:47 PM
lol it's on :D

And I put new weatherstripping on my driver door, didn't have time for the passenger door yet, but that helped a lot too :hill:

PabloCruise
11-16-2008, 08:05 AM
Matt, if you are cooling the engine properly via the radiator, and the t-stat is working, then your cabin heat problem may be related to flow to the core.

I believe you surmised this in an earlier thread.

Have you removed the heater valve and checked/cleared it of debris?

When I took possession of my 40 the heater valve was clogged with scale. I could get very little flow. Further, my heater knob (labeled "Warm Pull" <- cracks me up) does not have enough throw to fully open and fully close the heat valve. So I offset the housing in spring and fall depending on if I want to be able to fully open, or fully close the valve.

Does this help?

Report back on the condition of the heater control valve that regulates flow to your core.

subzali
11-16-2008, 09:38 AM
TJ, mine is the same as you. Actually it's worse, because of the position of the hoses etc. (I think someone messed with the routing) I can't get the valve to mount to the firewall where it's supposed to. But that's not causing the problem. My heater knob will open it fully, it just won't close it.

I think my valve has scale on it too, which I'll have to address next summer or something, not now. All I have to do is pop the hood and jiggle the valve and then coolant starts flowing and everything heats up satisfactorily. It just seems like every winter I have to deal with something on the heating system to get it to work, and every time it's something different to figure out. Someday when I get time there's still some things I need to address on that system, but the whole truck is that way and has been since I got it, so as long as I know my radiator is working and my heater core is fine then I can figure out the rest of it to make sure I get heat. It kept us nice and warm on the Spooky Night Run (even though it wasn't awfully cold that night anyway).

PabloCruise
11-16-2008, 12:19 PM
Hmm, make sure your routing is correct, ie not trying flow wrong way through valve and core...

subzali
12-05-2008, 04:33 PM
I took my valve off this afternoon and replaced it with a spool piece of heater tubing. Noticed an immediate difference in heat output, wish I woulda had that the past two days when it was so stinking cold - the heater would take the edge off the cold, but not much more. Now - bring it on! :thumb:

Gotta try and fix a gas leak to the inside of the cab though - not sure where to begin with that one...

sigh

Rzeppa
12-05-2008, 05:44 PM
I took my valve off this afternoon and replaced it with a spool piece of heater tubing. Noticed an immediate difference in heat output, wish I woulda had that the past two days when it was so stinking cold - the heater would take the edge off the cold, but not much more. Now - bring it on! :thumb:

Gotta try and fix a gas leak to the inside of the cab though - not sure where to begin with that one...

sigh

Assuming you're referring to the heater control valve on the passenger side of the firewall, it sounds like it was either stuck mostly closed or clogged up with deposits.

As for the fuel smell, since 40 tanks are in the cab, there are lots of places that could cause that. Certainly, check underneath for rust-through. This will be the most common cause for a leak where there wasn't one before. Then check the neck hose and where it goes into the tank, and check the "separator" and it's attendant hoses.

Uncle Ben
12-05-2008, 05:50 PM
I took my valve off this afternoon and replaced it with a spool piece of heater tubing. Noticed an immediate difference in heat output, wish I woulda had that the past two days when it was so stinking cold - the heater would take the edge off the cold, but not much more. Now - bring it on! :thumb:

Gotta try and fix a gas leak to the inside of the cab though - not sure where to begin with that one...

sigh

Is it the tank seams? If it is find a radiator shop that will work on gas tanks and have it lined.

RicardoJM
12-06-2008, 08:45 AM
...Noticed an immediate difference in heat output

Excellent:D. As I understand it there is a generic heater valve that you can pick up which will give you that in-cab adjustment capability again if you need it. I was a little concerned about how comfortable I could get with the primitive HEATON/HEATOFF system - but with the vents, windows getting comfortable is not a problem.

Uncle Ben
12-06-2008, 10:20 AM
Excellent:D. As I understand it there is a generic heater valve that you can pick up which will give you that in-cab adjustment capability again if you need it. I was a little concerned about how comfortable I could get with the primitive HEATON/HEATOFF system - but with the vents, windows getting comfortable is not a problem.

I have one from a 98 T-100 that you can have....it's cab cable controlled.

subzali
12-06-2008, 05:18 PM
I'll put the valve back on to keep it closed for the summer and marginal heat for the fall - it's only about five minutes to swap it. Or I'll try to clean up the valve so it works better for next year. We'll see.

My tank developed a bunch of pinhole cracks at Cruise Moab this year. Tom Rompies was kind enough to give me some gas tank sealer, which patched the few I saw but then more came into being on the drive home. When I got home I tore it out, cleaned up the bottom and found them all, used a POR-15 product for sealing gas tanks to seal the holes, then used the POR-15 on the whole rest of the bottom to keep the rust from eating through the rest of it. The stuff is supposed to be fuel resistant, and I don't think I went above the seams (didn't figure the top of the gas tank needed POR-15), so it coudl be there but I doubt it. I'm thinking it's just a hose that has maybe developed a leak somewhere, I just need to pull the passenger seat out again and see. Well I went from four main issues down to three main issues, I guess that's getting me ahead :rolleyes:

Rzeppa
12-06-2008, 07:49 PM
My tank developed a bunch of pinhole cracks at Cruise Moab this year. Tom Rompies was kind enough to give me some gas tank sealer, which patched the few I saw but then more came into being on the drive home. When I got home I tore it out, cleaned up the bottom and found them all, used a POR-15 product for sealing gas tanks to seal the holes, then used the POR-15 on the whole rest of the bottom to keep the rust from eating through the rest of it. The stuff is supposed to be fuel resistant, and I don't think I went above the seams (didn't figure the top of the gas tank needed POR-15), so it coudl be there but I doubt it. I'm thinking it's just a hose that has maybe developed a leak somewhere, I just need to pull the passenger seat out again and see. Well I went from four main issues down to three main issues, I guess that's getting me ahead :rolleyes:

In my experience with leaky FJ40 fuel tanks (had 3 of them over the last 26 years), they rust out at the bottom. 2 out of 3, I replaced with used, which worked fine for at least another decade or so. The most recent one (for my 71) was new OEM through Specter. It had a leak where the filler neck is brazed to the tank, right out of the box. Rather than dealing with the extra labor of pulling it and shipping it back for a replacement, I simply JB welded it and it has been fine ever since. I have a good condition 77 tank I bought off a lister to put into my 76 project FJ40; that one was replaced with used some years ago but visually has the same bottom rust issues the original tank had.

Uncle Ben
12-06-2008, 09:08 PM
In my experience with leaky FJ40 fuel tanks (had 3 of them over the last 26 years), they rust out at the bottom. 2 out of 3, I replaced with used, which worked fine for at least another decade or so. The most recent one (for my 71) was new OEM through Specter. It had a leak where the filler neck is brazed to the tank, right out of the box. Rather than dealing with the extra labor of pulling it and shipping it back for a replacement, I simply JB welded it and it has been fine ever since. I have a good condition 77 tank I bought off a lister to put into my 76 project FJ40; that one was replaced with used some years ago but visually has the same bottom rust issues the original tank had.

My original tank leaked at the seams. I replaced it with one from a '66 parts truck I had. That tank was full of rusty scale and I was plugging filters like crazy after I blew the sock off. I took my original to Broomfield Radiator and they cleaned it very well and then coated the inside with Urathane tank sealer. It is still the tank in the Cruiser today! That was at least 10-15 years ago!

Rzeppa
12-06-2008, 09:21 PM
My original tank leaked at the seams. I replaced it with one from a '66 parts truck I had. That tank was full of rusty scale and I was plugging filters like crazy after I blew the sock off. I took my original to Broomfield Radiator and they cleaned it very well and then coated the inside with Urathane tank sealer. It is still the tank in the Cruiser today! That was at least 10-15 years ago!

Collective experience is good, way good!

subzali
12-07-2008, 11:33 AM
My gas tank is leaking (seeping) a small amount, somewhere besides where I put the gas tank sealer on. It ate through the POR-15 coating in a couple places. Gonna take it to a radiator shop and have them check it out. How much did the lining cost UB? $50? $100?

Uncle Ben
12-07-2008, 12:07 PM
My gas tank is leaking (seeping) a small amount, somewhere besides where I put the gas tank sealer on. It ate through the POR-15 coating in a couple places. Gonna take it to a radiator shop and have them check it out. How much did the lining cost UB? $50? $100?

I do not remember Matt. A leaking tank is not something I would penny pinch on.....unless you like the idea of having an ejector seat! :eek: :wav: :Princess:

subzali
12-18-2008, 09:03 AM
$275 for a new gas tank, installed last night, no fumes but I also have heat on the drive to work this morning! :thumb:

MDH33
12-18-2008, 09:10 AM
$275 for a new gas tank, installed last night, no fumes but I also have heat on the drive to work this morning! :thumb:

Cool, should last you another 30 + years. :thumb:

subzali
12-18-2008, 09:14 AM
Yeah I'm going to POR-15 it next spring to help make sure that happens :thumb:

subzali
02-03-2012, 10:51 AM
Thread revival...

Last week and earlier this week I had no heat. Even going down the highway.

Then I checked the coolant level and found that the overflow bottle was empty. Filled it up and I got heat now. Coincidence? Dunno...

Is the heat system really that marginal? That if it's a 1/2 gallon low the heater won't work?

Once I get a house and a garage to work in I'm going to pull the drivetrain and clean and reseal it (rear main leak), fix the radiator, replace all the coolant/heater hoses, flush the heater cores and pipes, get Shane's kit to rebuild the heater, reseal the heater duct, get a new heater control valve or clean the one I have, and POR15 the gas tank. And take a close look at my clutch. That should keep me busy for a few days.

Red_Chili
02-03-2012, 11:30 AM
I dunno about POR15 for gas tanks. Witness your observation that fuel ate through it!

I used this product for the Ducati (plastic tank vulnerable to ethanol, this is a common fix):
http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/caswell-fuel-tank-sealer/

It is available in quantities for auto fuel tanks and is bombproof.

SteveH
02-03-2012, 11:37 AM
When your overflow bottle was low, did you check and fill the radiator at the same time? Usually, when the overflow is low, the radiator is low, too.

Squishy!
02-03-2012, 12:13 PM
If your heater core is higher than the "low" level in the radiator it will fill with air and presto! no heat. and yes 1/2 gallon is roughly 20% of your capacity IIRC.

subzali
02-03-2012, 12:30 PM
I dunno about POR15 for gas tanks. Witness your observation that fuel ate through it!

I used this product for the Ducati (plastic tank vulnerable to ethanol, this is a common fix):
http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/caswell-fuel-tank-sealer/

It is available in quantities for auto fuel tanks and is bombproof.

I'll check that out, but the POR15 would be to protect against rust/abrasion on the outside of the tank. It's a brand new OE tank now so there should be no pinholes to worry about for a while.

Didn't know that about plastic tanks though - maybe I should think about that on my KTM? I would think that the OEM's would know that and change the plastic to resist ethanol?

When your overflow bottle was low, did you check and fill the radiator at the same time? Usually, when the overflow is low, the radiator is low, too.

I didn't, because the engine was hot at the time and I didn't want to spray coolant everywhere. I still need to check and make sure that it's still full. It did start filling the overflow right away though, so I don't think the overflow was completely empty. I don't know where my coolant is going, the leaks in my radiator aren't that big :lmao:

If your heater core is higher than the "low" level in the radiator it will fill with air and presto! no heat. and yes 1/2 gallon is roughly 20% of your capacity IIRC.

I think that the coolant capacity is somewhere around 4 gallons? Yes, 16-17 quarts.

PabloCruise
02-03-2012, 02:17 PM
Thread revival...

Last week and earlier this week I had no heat. Even going down the highway.

Then I checked the coolant level and found that the overflow bottle was empty. Filled it up and I got heat now. Coincidence? Dunno...

Is the heat system really that marginal? That if it's a 1/2 gallon low the heater won't work?

Once I get a house and a garage to work in I'm going to pull the drivetrain and clean and reseal it (rear main leak), fix the radiator, replace all the coolant/heater hoses, flush the heater cores and pipes, get Shane's kit to rebuild the heater, reseal the heater duct, get a new heater control valve or clean the one I have, and POR15 the gas tank. And take a close look at my clutch. That should keep me busy for a few days.

What is a Shane's Kit to rebuild heater?
My heat is very marginal in the 40.
What is the best way to clean a heater core? I seem to recall hearing muriatic acid soak is the desired protocol?

corsair23
02-03-2012, 02:23 PM
What is a Shane's Kit to rebuild heater?

Shane on MUD, aka AATLAS1X

I assume that is who Matt is talking about. Not sure if he has his own website now or not. He makes all sort of :cool: stuff including new leather seats for the 80 series, reproduction stickers, etc.

Jacket
02-03-2012, 04:04 PM
It's funny to hear you have these same issues. My heater didn't work when I bought my 40 (never got hot), and my cooling system would either run way too cold (wintertime), or borderline overheating (summer).

New radiator, new hoses, thermostat and a heater rebuild did the trick for me. Heat blows like crazy, and the cooling is consistent and perfect all 4 seasons. It's one of the best things I did for my 40.

kurtnkegger
02-03-2012, 06:43 PM
I purchased the heater kit from Shane for my 40. The kit consisted of foam sheets to glue on the gate (you have to but the glue separately), Foam strip to seal the heater core, more foam for the blower motor, and some small plastic bushings for the gate posts. There may have been some small screws for the gate as well. He'll give you a deal if you mention you are a mud member if ordering from ebay.

Worth the money to get a good seal on the heater. My heater worked way better after the rebuild...

PabloCruise
02-06-2012, 09:52 AM
Any tricks for trying to de-scale a used heater core? Is muriatic acid the way to go, or a big no-no?

Jacket
02-06-2012, 09:54 AM
I took mine to a radiator shop and let them clean it up - around $40 IIRC. Not sure what they did though....

Rezarf
02-06-2012, 10:01 AM
Yeah, a radiator shop with a "hot tank" is the ticket. I had a shop do mine years ago for like $25.

subzali
02-06-2012, 10:06 AM
I did the muriatic acid treatment. Just have to make sure it doesn't come in contact with your skin, eyes (wear goggles like in chemistry class), or anything other than the copper tubes, especially aluminum and I think concrete. Also remember that you typically want to add acid to water (if diluting), not the other way around.

Uncle Ben
02-06-2012, 12:04 PM
I did the muriatic acid treatment. Just have to make sure it doesn't come in contact with your skin, eyes (wear goggles like in chemistry class), or anything other than the copper tubes, especially aluminum and I think concrete. Also remember that you typically want to add acid to water (if diluting), not the other way around.

All good advice! Muratic is pretty mild but it is still acid! Another huge precaution when using acid on anything your trying to dissolve is the vapors being created are usually not mammal lung and/or eye friendly!

subzali
02-06-2012, 12:38 PM
Yes, muriatic acid burns the lungs/nose. Be careful!

PabloCruise
02-06-2012, 01:19 PM
Sounds good.
I was trying to avoid taking the core to a radiator shop as mine has the nice foam wrap around the outside that I imagine would be destroyed by the tanking process at the radiator shop.

Matt, was your cleaning effective? Did you have to dilute your stock acid?

subzali
02-06-2012, 02:10 PM
TJ, I don't think mine was too dirty to begin with, so can't say how effective it was. The tubes are squeaky clean right now though, I can tell you that. My heating issues are coming from elsewhere, some kind of flow restriction in the hoses or control valve or something.

Full strength. I ain't messin' around :D

SteveH
02-06-2012, 03:37 PM
I filled a '77 heater core with straight Muriatic acid (pour slowly and carefully, wear goggles), waited about 1/2 hour for the bubbling to stop, then rinsed the core thoroughly in bucket of water into which I had put a couple tablespoons of baking soda. I then rinsed the core with more clean water. It was completely clean (no scale inside) and ran very hot in my truck. No leaks, either. The full-strength acid had enough power to dissolve all the scale in a reasonable amount of time. I would not dilute it.

Uncle Ben
02-06-2012, 05:21 PM
I filled a '77 heater core with straight Muriatic acid (pour slowly and carefully, wear goggles), waited about 1/2 hour for the bubbling to stop, then rinsed the core thoroughly in bucket of water into which I had put a couple tablespoons of baking soda. I then rinsed the core with more clean water. It was completely clean (no scale inside) and ran very hot in my truck. No leaks, either. The full-strength acid had enough power to dissolve all the scale in a reasonable amount of time. I would not dilute it.

Full strength consumer available Muratic acid is only usually 10-12%. I use it to clean the build up of cl2 salts out of chlorinating equipment.

PabloCruise
02-07-2012, 08:24 AM
Good stuff y'all, thanks for the help.
I will be careful (I promise), use PPG and pour it in our fume hood at work.
My heat fell way off when I replaced the core w/ a used one. I tried burping the system, pulled the valve to see if it was clogged. I have not tried the IR gun on the rad to see if the t-stat is working properly.