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View Full Version : 3RZ-FE - timing belt or chain?


subzali
10-16-2008, 09:02 AM
Well?

Jacket
10-16-2008, 09:07 AM
It's a chain. The 3.4V6 has a belt.

Lucky for me, the 4.0 V6 went back to a chain....

DaveInDenver
10-16-2008, 09:13 AM
Single row chain.

Red_Chili
10-16-2008, 09:27 AM
I kinda like the belts (3VZ aside, ick). Way easier, though the new motors AFAIK don't require as frequent service as the 22RE.

MDH33
10-16-2008, 11:10 AM
How difficult is it to replace on a 22R ?

subzali
10-16-2008, 11:15 AM
After I did it the first time (without doing the headgasket - you are SUPPOSED to do them together) I said I'd never do it again. But then when I ended up doing the head gasket anyway a year later I ended up doing it again. But I don't think I'll ever do the headgasket myself again. But that's me. It's an expensive job to pay someone to do it.

Red_Chili
10-16-2008, 12:21 PM
Harder than belts on a 5VZ-FE for sure, but not all that hard. Some shortcut the process by not removing the head (and this is well documented on the web), but IMO at least you are missing an important opportunity to replace the headgasket at a reasonable service interval, instead of at the most inconvenient time where head or block damage might accompany it.

While you are in there, it is a good idea to replace the water pump, and I elected to replace the oil pump as well (mine was scored by consuming bits of aluminum... looking at the oil pump is a good way to see if you should look further, like at main bearings, etc.). I used ARP head studs but you don't have to. I just like studs better than bolts, and the bolt holes on #3 and #4 exhaust side can get full of carbon from cooked oil. Nasty.............

Red_Chili
10-16-2008, 12:56 PM
That's a fair assessment I'd say. FYI, the OEM motor in the Chili had 149K miles on it when the HG failed. The block deck was etched due to the eroded HG and had to be decked, or motor replaced. If the PO had done the timing chain per factory process at 125K it would have saved me over two large (I resold the reman motor or it would have been three large).

There were no symptoms of incipient failure either. It just went. #3 fire ring between #3 and #4, exhaust side. High stressed part of the head, thermally.

MDH33
10-16-2008, 01:10 PM
Is oil pump failure always a sign of bearing/guides deteriorating?

sorry for the hijack Matt.

DaveInDenver
10-16-2008, 01:10 PM
FYI, the OEM motor in the Chili had 149K miles on it when the HG failed.
That sort of strikes me to be at the margin of what I think the service life of the OEM timing parts is supposed to be. I've come to think that Toyota either expected 200K km or 250K km to be the maintenance interval, which works out to 125K miles or 155K miles, probably 200K kliks, being a nice round number. That's why I think the 100K miles thing is common here, being that 125K miles usually means ~125K and so we tend to let things slip a little, so it's ends up being 130K, 135K or so and we end up going pretty far beyond the expected interval. In my case I put the final 87K miles on my original engine and it got Toyota Red with distilled water on annual flushes, so I'd bet my engine was on the babied side of 22R blocks.

Red_Chili
10-16-2008, 02:02 PM
Is oil pump failure always a sign of bearing/guides deteriorating?

sorry for the hijack Matt.
I take your meaning of 'oil pump failure' to be 'oil pump scoring'. Naw, it is a strong clue though. FWIW my oil pump had not failed, just scored badly (and more investigation discovered the mains and big ends were likewise scored badly, but fortunately not the crank or rods. Gotta love aluminum.). If it had, there would be a 100% correlation between oil pump failure and bearing/guide/cam failure!!
:lmao:

Worth taking a look at things while you are in there, IMO. Beats having to at a time not of your choosing!! The wear on the timing cover and broken pieces off of it had to go SOMEwhere!!

Red_Chili
10-16-2008, 02:06 PM
That sort of strikes me to be at the margin of what I think the service life of the OEM timing parts is supposed to be. I tend to agree.

To add to the mayhem, the radiator had a pinhole leak, and when the head was pulled there was a bunch of Stop-Leak (evil, evil stuff) partially clogging small passageways. If the guy had fixed things correctly allowing the cooling system to build pressure and cool efficiently, even without changing the timing chain and HG things might have been fine. Coolant was old too, when I changed the radiator, but before I blew the HG. Corrosion kills. Doesn't old coolant contribute to galvanic corrosion due to chemical changes in the coolant itself?

DaveInDenver
10-16-2008, 02:35 PM
Corrosion kills. Doesn't old coolant contribute to galvanic corrosion due to chemical changes in the coolant itself?
Yup, probably. Galvanic corrosion happens when dissimilar metals are immersed in an electrolyte. In the case of our engines, iron block and aluminum head bolted on (thus great electrical contact) are just waiting for the electrolyte to flow through, which we provide with coolant passages. That could be the acids left over from combustion, impurities in the water, etc. That's mainly why I think my HG went the distance, the distilled water that got flushed often. That is also why I think Toyota Red, Prestone green, whatever, is more of a non-factor if you use distilled water. Using tap water full of incident salt is probably the common denominator in HG failures, but I dunno. I do think the red stuff with phosphates works better with distilled water, where as the silicate green stuff is probably safer with water of unknown quality. The silicates are more active at preventing aluminum corrosion at the expense of wearing out pumps from the abrasion. But doing a phosphate wash or coat is a common corrosion protection technique, so I don't think Toyota Red is a bad coolant from a galvanic protection viewpoint.

Red_Chili
10-16-2008, 06:43 PM
Interesting, I hadn't realized that. I always use distilled water. The dealer does not. :eek:

DaveInDenver
10-16-2008, 07:26 PM
Interesting, I hadn't realized that. I always use distilled water. The dealer does not. :eek:
I want to say that surprises me, but it doesn't. Let me believe they have water softeners at least. :-/