PDA

View Full Version : Fuel Injection Cleaner ? - Robbie?


PabloCruise
11-13-2008, 04:58 PM
So I must say I like Robbie (PowderPig)'s first stab in his new role as Tech Editor at the Trails (as soon as I figured out what the heck "followers" were :D)

But his message about fuel injection cleaner products left me a little confused, and wanting more knowledge.

He said something like there are two types of injector cleaner additives - chemical based and detergent based.

I realize he could not drop names, but I want product names for the two different kinds of cleaners!

My Civic is closing in on 200k miles and I don't think I have ever run any cleaner through it. I am thinking it might be time... :doh:

Now that I am fool injected with the Pig, I need to try both cleaners as the 3FE has some issues I am trying to resolve.

I have a friend who used to work for Bosch and swears by Techron. I could not find any at my NAPA, but they like BG 44k, so I threw a can of that in with half a tank (Pig tank = 20 gallons = $$$)

So Robbie (or others) - how can I tell which cleaner is chemical vs. detergent, and what brands do people like?

TIA

nuclearlemon
11-13-2008, 05:02 PM
bg44k is great stuff. i heard a rumor that Toyota uses this stuff too.

Crash
11-13-2008, 05:03 PM
Amsoil's P.I. is a detergent based cleaner as is Red Line's system cleaner. I can't find the Red Line at parts stores anynore.

PabloCruise
11-13-2008, 05:23 PM
So is 44k chemical and Amsoil & Red Line detergent?

Where to get the Amsoil or Red Line?

Thanks!

Hulk
11-13-2008, 05:28 PM
BG 44k has always done me right too. One can, one tank of gas. Of course, the one can is usually like $25.

There is some cheaper stuff you can get at Checker for $5/can: Lucas Fuel Injector Cleaner. You need 2 cans + 2 tanks of gas. This was recommended to me by Scott over at AA Performance Muffler on Broadway. He says it works great.

Crash
11-13-2008, 05:55 PM
Stevinson Toyota sells B&G products at our club discount.

Rzeppa
11-13-2008, 08:15 PM
Stevinson Toyota sells B&G products at our club discount.

I was about to post that until I read your reply. It's closer to $20 with our discount.

BG 44-K is solvent based. During before-meeting discussions with Robbie at OTB, he has also mentioned that he likes Redline, I would guess that might be the detergent-based brand he referred to in his column.

I've been using BG 44-K for decades and swear by the stuff. It's been recommended to me over the years by several pro mechanics who I trust. Forget STP and all the others you see at grocery stores etc. You get what you pay for.

If Robbie says Redline is good, I'd trust him and try it. I've just never seen where it's sold?

powderpig
11-13-2008, 08:40 PM
Techron is a petrochemical based injection cleaner(I like it), while Redline is a detergent based one. I have used the lucas one in the past as well(detergent based I believe). I have not used BG 44k as I think it is way too much money. But hey what ever works. Toyota used to import a real great product, that would work almost before you drove a couple of mile. But the trick with it was to use it up in a week or it would work on the rubber hoses.
Pep boys used to carry it(redline). I know Carquest is carrying Redline oil (I believe), but do not know about the fuel injection cleaner.
Some believe that fuel injection cleaners are snake oil, but the right one will keep the injectors real happy for a long time.

Beater
11-13-2008, 08:44 PM
techron is the schnizit... you can get it at costco as well. Lucas's fuel treatment is different than their "injector cleaner"... I have a family loyalty to the lucas products, but 44k and techron work well.

Bikeman
11-13-2008, 09:03 PM
Where else besides costco can one get the Techron?

Also, without hijacking the thread, Robbie, the mention of motor oils in your writing got me confused. What are the popular viscosities of oil to use in the FZJ's for summer and winter? I know most of the FZJ's early in their soccer-mom lives probably ran 5w-30, as specified in the owner's manual. I know this has been beat to death on MUD, but I would like your answer please.

Uncle Ben
11-13-2008, 09:11 PM
Where else besides costco can one get the Techron?

Also, without hijacking the thread, Robbie, the mention of motor oils in your writing got me confused. What are the popular viscosities of oil to use in the FZJ's for summer and winter? I know most of the FZJ's early in their soccer-mom lives probably ran 5w-30, as specified in the owner's manual. I know this has been beat to death on MUD, but I would like your answer please.

I usually get it at NAPA. Most Chevron products are of high quality!

PabloCruise
11-13-2008, 11:44 PM
My NAPA has no Techron...

I was wondering where else I might find it too.

Thanks y'all!

MountainGoat
11-14-2008, 05:32 AM
Most Checker stores carry the Redline Injector Cleaner. My 95 FZJ-80 really likes it!

jjhancock
11-20-2008, 09:30 AM
Most Checker stores carry the Redline Injector Cleaner. My 95 FZJ-80 really likes it!

X2! I've been picking up a couple bottles every few months at Checker, and my 97 80 series really digs it!

Uncle Ben
11-20-2008, 09:57 AM
My NAPA has no Techron...

I was wondering where else I might find it too.

Thanks y'all!


I was at Walmart last night and they also sell Techron!

Jenny Cruiser
11-20-2008, 10:28 AM
You can find good deals on BG products on ebay. I run two cans of 44k once a year and since I don't run synthetic I also add the MOA to the oil at oil changes. To get to the rings and cylinder walls I also give it a good seafoam soak as well once a year. A good buddy of mine swears by BG, but says the seafoam is crap. I think Romer used something called autoRx a while back on his LX about the time Robbie did his HG.

Once every 20K or more I also use the BG oil cleaner to remove any oil sludge just before I change the oil as well. I'm looking forward to doing my HG one of these days to actually see if all this is doing any good at all. The LX seems happy. So were the other vehicles, but I never keep them long enough to see if it does any good for sure. I think I'll have the 96 for a while so we'll see.

BTW - BG did a test of a bunch of dino oils not too long ago and named the Walmart Supertec brand the best. I'm going to give it a go next oil change.

DaveInDenver
11-20-2008, 10:28 AM
I'll throw this out, I've run both 44K and Techron. Usually it's Techron on an oil change and a can of 44K maybe once a year or so (I shoot for every 12K miles).

When I pulled my injectors for the rebuild (they were 187K old), I had acceptable flow, at 43 psi one was at 186cc/min and the rest 194cc/min up to 197cc/min (stock they are rated at 200 cc/min at 41.25 psi). They all but one came back just a little cleaner from Witchhunter. The lowest increased 1cc and the worst 8cc increased flow. We're talking a spread of about 5% to start to around 1% high to low after cleaning.

So I dunno if spending ~$80/year for 9 years was worth it or not. I spent about $120 having my injectors cleaned, so I've stopped using the $25 44K and just do a Techron maintenance on oil changes. I plan to yank the injectors out again at 50K and see how they look. I have my doubts as to the effectiveness of anything that is safe to run through the fuel system, although I can't complain about their condition at 187K. I'm also very weird about gas, use the same station and pump 75% of the time (the far west side pump at the Downing St. Conoco, 85 octane in winter and 87 octane in summer).

BTW, I only run anything in the engine once. It's probably coincidental, but I was planning on switching from Castrol Syntec to Mobil One oil in my engine, so I ran BG's Engine Clean (I think that's the name) before dumping the Syntec and refilling with Mobil. It was that oil change, about 500 miles later, when my timing chain broke. I never put much stock into oil additives and after that it's only oil ever now... I might also note that at 187K my lower end looked good, nice caramel color, no sludge build up. I'm running Syntec again in the new engine.

Cruzrman
11-20-2008, 01:56 PM
Years ago Techron pretty much cornered the market. Every mechanic I knew swore by it. Nowadays, you'd be hard pressed to find one who says that BG 44K isn't the way to go. Granted, it's expensive, but I've been using it religiously for years, usually in the Spring when gas stations would switch back to "normal' gas. Now, I think it's crap for your motor all year long. It's pretty powerful stuff, and overuse can damage certain parts, but 1 can a year has been my philosophy since the stuff came out.

Uncle Ben
11-20-2008, 02:12 PM
Years ago Techron pretty much cornered the market. Every mechanic I knew swore by it. Nowadays, you'd be hard pressed to find one who says that BG 44K isn't the way to go. Granted, it's expensive, but I've been using it religiously for years, usually in the Spring when gas stations would switch back to "normal' gas. Now, I think it's crap for your motor all year long. It's pretty powerful stuff, and overuse can damage certain parts, but 1 can a year has been my philosophy since the stuff came out.

Mechanics also get incentives from pushing BG products. BG is good stuff but cost value to product value in my opinion is argumentable. Back when I played the game for a living it was common practice to gather as many BG "coins" as you could to get cool rewards....theses days it's the same deal but the prize pot includes some pretty (read high end) fancy swag!

wesintl
11-20-2008, 02:23 PM
I use Stanadyne :grinpimp:

PabloCruise
11-24-2008, 05:41 AM
I was at Walmart last night and they also sell Techron!

Wow! Would not have thought to look there...

Thanks!

PabloCruise
11-24-2008, 05:43 AM
I'll throw this out, I've run both 44K and Techron. Usually it's Techron on an oil change and a can of 44K maybe once a year or so (I shoot for every 12K miles).

When I pulled my injectors for the rebuild (they were 187K old), I had acceptable flow, at 43 psi one was at 186cc/min and the rest 194cc/min up to 197cc/min (stock they are rated at 200 cc/min at 41.25 psi). They all but one came back just a little cleaner from Witchhunter. The lowest increased 1cc and the worst 8cc increased flow. We're talking a spread of about 5% to start to around 1% high to low after cleaning.

So I dunno if spending ~$80/year for 9 years was worth it or not. I spent about $120 having my injectors cleaned, so I've stopped using the $25 44K and just do a Techron maintenance on oil changes. I plan to yank the injectors out again at 50K and see how they look. I have my doubts as to the effectiveness of anything that is safe to run through the fuel system, although I can't complain about their condition at 187K. I'm also very weird about gas, use the same station and pump 75% of the time (the far west side pump at the Downing St. Conoco, 85 octane in winter and 87 octane in summer).

BTW, I only run anything in the engine once. It's probably coincidental, but I was planning on switching from Castrol Syntec to Mobil One oil in my engine, so I ran BG's Engine Clean (I think that's the name) before dumping the Syntec and refilling with Mobil. It was that oil change, about 500 miles later, when my timing chain broke. I never put much stock into oil additives and after that it's only oil ever now... I might also note that at 187K my lower end looked good, nice caramel color, no sludge build up. I'm running Syntec again in the new engine.

I know what you mean. Like I said, my Civic is closing in on 200k w/ no treatments and she seems to run fine.

I am trying to avoid pulling injectors on the Pig and would like to eliminate variables where I can.

But you have helped me quantify an important question I had... Thanks!

PabloCruise
11-24-2008, 05:44 AM
I use Stanadyne :grinpimp:

Que???

powderpig
11-24-2008, 07:35 AM
While I believe that the best way to get the injectors clean is to send them to a place to get them clean. I also believe that low cost cleaners like Techron, lucus and redline(all usually under 10 bucks) every 10 k miles, will keep them fairly clean for well over 100k miles. Dave, do you really do 30k miles a year? (3 bg 44 a year). I believe that if you use these cleaners more often, there will be no real benifit. Just my experence over the years. I too believe that BG44 is way over priced, too the point of rapeing the customer.
Is your honda mulitport injections or throttle body? Your pig has a engine that fuel injection? What engine is that?
If you have multi port and pulled the injectors and sent them in to get cleaned. I would guess that you see a smoothness you did not have before and better throttle response. Anyhow just my thoughts.
later. robbie

DaveInDenver
11-24-2008, 08:03 AM
Dave, do you really do 30k miles a year? (3 bg 44 a year).
Nope, I was using a can of 44K once per 12K miles, which historically was about once a year. But I just turned 205K recently on the odometer and when I rebuilt the engine the odo was at 187K, so indicated 18K miles since May of 2006. My odometer reads high by about 10%, so I do 7,200 miles per year. That makes sense I guess, the only trip we've done in the past couple of years was Rubithon and I ride my bike to work a couple of days per week. But we've owned the truck for about 8 years now and I've put about 95,000 miles on it, so on average we do about 11,875 miles per year.

wesintl
11-24-2008, 09:25 AM
Que???

hermano diesel
http://www.stanadyne.com/view.php?id=74

No one really specified what kind of fuel injection :D

PabloCruise
11-25-2008, 10:27 AM
Is your honda mulitport injections or throttle body? Your pig has a engine that fuel injection? What engine is that?
If you have multi port and pulled the injectors and sent them in to get cleaned. I would guess that you see a smoothness you did not have before and better throttle response. Anyhow just my thoughts.
later. robbie

Thanks for your time Robbie!

Honda is multi-port,
Pig is 3FE

Trying to avoid pulling injectors on the Pig as that EGR nut is on there pretty good.

The Honda (B-series) engine I think would be pretty easy to pull the injectors. I did enjoy throttle response when I replaced o2 sensor in the Honda.

Any recomendations on where to send 'em out for service (Honda or Toy)?

DaveInDenver
11-25-2008, 10:50 AM
Any recomendations on where to send 'em out for service (Honda or Toy)?
Witchhunter. I sent them on a Monday via Priority Mail, he got them Wed. (he's in Washington state). Did them that day and I had them again Friday. He did all 4 plus the cold start, all new gaskets and seals. Good price, too, $18/each.

http://www.witchhunter.com/

AxleIke
11-25-2008, 11:17 AM
This is an interesting thread, and has been enlightening.

I've always been in the snake oil category. Gasoline is a great solvent itself, so I always figured that putting more solvent into a solvent, was a total scam.

However, seems a lot of you guys use it. Especially people who've been in the game for a long, long time, and see actual results with it. I may have to give it a shot.

DaveInDenver
11-25-2008, 11:36 AM
I've always been in the snake oil category. Gasoline is a great solvent itself, so I always figured that putting more solvent into a solvent, was a total scam.
I tend to agree to the extent that I dumped the stuff in not expecting too much. But OTOH I hedged my bets thinking while gasoline itself is a solvent, but does get that varnish when it sits around. So maybe the additives and junk build up, I dunno for sure. But like you mention, I can't complain that my injectors weren't in horrible shape after 16 years. Shrug. I had my doubts, so I'm sticking with the $5/bottle stuff and see what happens after a few years. Rather than spend $25 for 44K every year, I'll spend $100 to have them cleaned properly every few years. Nothing like putting eyeballs on the internals to know.

leiniesred
11-25-2008, 01:32 PM
I'm a long time techron fan. It was the only easy to get fuel injector cleaner certifed for use in a Mercedes, so it can't be too bad.
I might use it 1/year. I can't tell a difference.
I've never had my injectors cleaned. They have 267,000 miles on them.

The biggest difference in "tuning" my truck with snake oil? Clean the backside of the throttle butterfly with intake cleaner. A can based intake cleaning can increase my before/after idle RPM by 300RPM and the hesitation when running cold goes away for another year.

Uncle Ben
11-25-2008, 02:50 PM
This is an interesting thread, and has been enlightening.

I've always been in the snake oil category. Gasoline is a great solvent itself, so I always figured that putting more solvent into a solvent, was a total scam.

However, seems a lot of you guys use it. Especially people who've been in the game for a long, long time, and see actual results with it. I may have to give it a shot.

Those who spray are always faster than those who drip!!!! :eek: :homer: :lmao:

PabloCruise
11-27-2008, 07:02 AM
Found the Techron at wally-world, less than $6/can.

Can says it treats 12 gallons. Got 3, one for Pig, one for the Civic, and one for the Mamry. Dumped the one in the Mamry prior to tanking up...

farnhamstj
11-27-2008, 08:31 AM
I havent got my TT yet so I'm feeling out of the loop. I've got 170k on the clock and never used any injector products. I had a stalling on start up problem a year back, thew a code for #4 injector. I pulled the harness, cleaned the contacts. End of problem. I have cleaned TB as per directed on MUD. Are you(forum members) sugesting I should go get some Techtron or something?

PabloCruise
11-27-2008, 01:28 PM
First check on the Trails issue - you should have gotten your Nov/Dec issue by now...

Robbie had a fine run at Tech. One of his answers regarding injector cleaners got me wondering...

farnhamstj
11-27-2008, 01:46 PM
That would mean going to the post office. I hate the post office almost as much as the dentist.

farnhamstj
11-29-2008, 07:56 AM
The more I think about it, my membership does expire in November. Hmmm.....

PabloCruise
12-01-2008, 12:40 PM
That would mean going to the post office. I hate the post office almost as much as the dentist.

I would go to my dentist more often if they had TT to read!

Rzeppa
12-01-2008, 06:27 PM
The more I think about it, my membership does expire in November. Hmmm.....

Dude, I know where we can hook you up ;-)

Toy4x4s
12-10-2008, 10:51 PM
Throwing in my 2 cents... AutoZone also carries Techron.

In my daily driver... a 2002 Intrepid with the 3.5L i typically use 44k. I put a lot of miles on, so it seems that I'm always running it through. The heads are currently off for headgaskets and new cams and rocker arms (yes it got HOTTT). I was really curious to see my combustion chambers... Hmmm, not as clean as I would have thought they would have been. I have carbon build up on the top of the pistons... not a lot... probably more than a 1/16th of an inch. I expected to see the metal tops of the pistons. The valves are clean as are the injectors. Anyhow, there's my 2 cents.

I get my 44k from the bus garage. They use all BG products on the school buses and fleet of vehicles. We collect the "coins" and at our annual Christmas parties we all get gifts from BG...