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View Full Version : help get a FJ40 running!


timmbuck2
11-26-2008, 07:46 PM
long story short...there is a 1980 FJ40 behind a school near me. the owner has moved away and has asked me to take possession of it and get it running and try and sell it to benefit a charity that is in honor of his mother. (full story is in the members forum) I found out this week that the school is going to have the 40 towed after this weekend. :eek: so I spent a couple of afternoons putting it back together. All that it needs now is the engine running! :) It was running and driving a year ago. I could really use some help getting it running and off the property. I will be working on it friday, if you can come help at all I would greatly appreciate it. Getting an engine to run is NOT my strong suit. Free pizza and beer! :beer: Thanks!

T

Cruzrman
11-27-2008, 02:32 PM
Where is the vehicle? What kind of tools will you be needing? Have you done anything to the motor yet, i.e., plugs, wires ,cap, rotor,fluids? What time will you be starting?

timmbuck2
11-27-2008, 10:26 PM
Vehicle is in south Denver, near Downing and Yale. I think I have all the tools we need. The 40 was running a year ago...I will be starting around 9am..providing i don't have a sick mom and 2 sick kids tomorrow like I do right now.....need to install a starter, hook up the battery, etc. Added oil, some marvel mystery oil, etc...nothing else yet...


thanks all

T

Rzeppa
11-28-2008, 06:34 PM
Timm and I got her running and driving today. Not without a few issues. On the way down, I popped a heater hose and had to pull over to duct-tape the split and refill with coolant. Then, on my way and all was fine.

Timm had a fully charged red top installed when I got there. As it was, the rig had no starter and he had to go get one from his stash and install it, he had already finished that when I got there. Then, one of the battery cables had no nut, so we pulled the SAE bolt and installed an M8 with nut. The other one wouldn't fit over the battery terminal (terminal too small, cable clamp too big, even fully tightened), but we found a drywall screw laying on the ground and screwed it in to make good contact.

We checked the oil, and the level was good. With electrical power now functioning, we turned her over. So far so good. Sprayed some starter spray into the carb and she started right up! Once some fuel got pumped into the carb, she ran well on the fresh gas Timm had put into the tank. Then we noticed a puddle forming underneath and I had Timm shut her down. Turns out the rubber fuel line between the hard line and the filter was cracked and spewing (the mechanical pump had been replaced with an electric pump somewhere upstream.

We went to the parts store and got a new length of fuel line (and some 5/8" heater hose for me), along with a couple gallons of 50/50. Turns out it needed the 50/50, there was no coolant in her and she needed all of it and then some. We replaced the fuel line and started her up again, ran her up to operating temperature and then noticed coolant spewing from where a heater hose was unconnected. We reconnected the hose and started her up again, then noticed coolant spewing from the hard line to the rear heater. We bypassed the entire heater system by connecting the heater hose where it exits the head directly to the hard line at the side cover by the distributor.

Now we started her up again, and drove forward a few feet and back. Looking good! Brakes seem to work, engine runs, coolant and fuel leaks are in check and she seems ready to go. All in all, a good day's cruiser work! She'll be quite drivable from the school back to Timm's place.

timmbuck2
11-28-2008, 07:58 PM
thanks again jeff! never coul have done it without you!

update...went back over there tonight with some kitty litter stuff for the coolant we spilled and more coolant. she fired right up and I was going to move her to the parking lot to clean up the spill. it was hard to get her moving....felt like the brakes were on...but the emergency break is on th tcase, right? it stalled...then the battery was pretty dead. had to jump it with the 80...then really rev it to get it to move...and even on an incline it does not move, so something is not right. and the battery is still dead. but we rescued another cruiser!! thanks again jeff!!

RicardoJM
11-28-2008, 08:10 PM
Way to go guys. Timm, I've experienced the same thing regarding hard to move when I forgot to remove my wheel chocks. I'm sure you checked that, but thought I would mention it.

Rzeppa
11-28-2008, 11:03 PM
thanks again jeff! never coul have done it without you!

update...went back over there tonight with some kitty litter stuff for the coolant we spilled and more coolant. she fired right up and I was going to move her to the parking lot to clean up the spill. it was hard to get her moving....felt like the brakes were on...but the emergency break is on th tcase, right? it stalled...then the battery was pretty dead. had to jump it with the 80...then really rev it to get it to move...and even on an incline it does not move, so something is not right. and the battery is still dead. but we rescued another cruiser!! thanks again jeff!!

It felt to me when I drove her back and forth that the rear brakes are adjusted fairly tight. I checked the parking brake and the feel was normal from the hand brake. If the battery is draining without the ignition switched on, then that will have to be troubleshot. Quick way to see if it's the vehicle's system that's draining the battery or if it's a problem battery, is to put a multimeter in line with either if the battery's cables.

In this rig's case, back out the drywall screw we put in the negative terminal, lift the terminal off, then put the multimeter on amps setting between the battery post and the cable (don't forget to move the connection on the multimeter). Nothing reading means it's not the Cruiser's fault, and may be an issue with the battery. A couple hundred mAs would signal a problem in the electrical system. I can help with that.

It was great to get her running though! Happy cruisin'!

timmbuck2
11-29-2008, 01:24 AM
Stan mentioned something about the emergency brake...just found the email

"To be drivable the truck will need to have the e-brake re-adjusted at the transfer case (A student messed with the knob on the ebrake handle)"

guess that explains that. :)


the battery was draining while it was running...started fine and ran for 10+ minutes...then almost no juice...after I jumped it I ran it for 10-15 minutes and then again almost no juice. good news is 1.5 gallons of antifreeze and it was full and did not overheat while running.

thanks again

t

Cruzrman
11-30-2008, 12:50 PM
I'm glad to hear you got it running. If you'd had given me an address and definite on whether you would be there i.e. sick mom and kids, I would have come up. Sounds like you wouldn't have needed my help anyway. Too many cooks.....

Rzeppa
11-30-2008, 10:49 PM
I neglected to check to see if the intregal voltage regulator and alternator were doing their job [smacks forehead]. It was wonderful that the engine was running smooth, and I was able to drive forward and backward a short distance demonstrating lots of systems working right. I did not think to check to battery voltage of charging system's operation. Do'h!

timmbuck2
12-01-2008, 08:18 PM
oh gods of the Rising Sun, can you please move this thread to tech??? thanks!!!!



OK...she is running AND is in my driveway. :)

Went back over today and could not figure out why it would not move. The ebrake seemed off, it was not in gear, but it would NOT move. I took a look at the ebrake on the tcase and it did not look like it had been messed with. I jacked up the rear and the rear wheels and driveshaft moved freely, so the ebrake was not the culprit. With the rear wheels jacked up, it would not move at all, so something was stopping the front wheels from moving. I jacked up the front and sure enough both front wheels were locked. I took one wheel off to see if I could figure out what was going on. TO my surprise, the rotor moved freely! Thinking I had just loosened it, I put the tire back on...and the tire was locked again. What the heck? I tried the other side, and same thing...wheel would not turn when the lug nuts were tight, but when loose or off, it turned fine. Hmm....what was Ige teaching me about disc brake vs drum brake wheels?? OH YEAH! drum brake wheels do not work on disc brakes...duh! I swap the rears (welded, no rivets) for the fronts (rivets) and it is now rolling like it should be! YAY!

Hook up the jumper cables, and still not much juice. Readjust the cables, and she fires right up. Hmm...wonder if it is just bad connections to the battery? Anyway, she fires up, and the headlights, taillights, even the ebrake and ebrake warning light work!! I start to drive (in the dark) to the gas station before I head home. A few blocks away I realize my wallet is in my 80, so I start to take side roads to get back to the school. All of the sudden the engine dies...there is enough juice to get it to kinda start, but it dies again. ARGH. Long walk back to my truck, drive back to the 40, hook up the jumper cables again....it turns over but won't catch. D'OH! Out of gas!! Drive home to get the gas tank, the wife and kids just got home. Grab the 3 year old and the gas tank and get some gas, then head back to the 40. Fill her up, jump it again, strap in the boy and OFF we go! GO back to the gas station for gas and some air for the tires. she drives great on the road, drives and shifts great. get her home with no probs. thanks to all (eepecially Jeff!) for helping get this running and to a safe place.

I still need to figure out the charging issue...

One other thing...the blower that is in front of the firewall in front of the driver's side is still blowing 10 minutes after I got home and shut the truck off. Is that normal?

Pics tomorrow!!

T

subzali
12-01-2008, 08:21 PM
Uh oh...here we go with a carb cooling fan discussion! :rolleyes:

Good work Timm! :thumb:

wesintl
12-01-2008, 08:31 PM
nice troubleshooting Timm. Disc and drum got me once too on my 76 :D

timmbuck2
12-01-2008, 08:42 PM
ok, the fan stopped....and antifreeze is running down my driveway. guess we know why the radiator was empty. Can't tell in the dark, but looks like it is coming from directly underneath the radiator...

Rzeppa
12-01-2008, 08:45 PM
As (I think) I wrote in a previous post, I was remiss in not measuring what was going on electrically with this rig. I know from getting my grubby hands on her and eyeballing her, there is not a visible problem with the battery cables, although there can be a hidden problem inside where the cables go into the terminals. I doubt that's the problem.

There are two easy tests you can do with a multimeter. One is to set the multimeter on volts and measure the battery voltage with the engine off. If it is around 12-12.5 volts that's normal. Then start the engine up and measure again. It should be around 13.8-14.2 volts. If it is is lower, it is likely that the charging system isn't charging. If it is, but there is a problem starting the rig, then it may be a bad battery, or even bad connections between the battery and ground and starter. I connected the battery ground myself to the frame, and it looked fine, but that doesn't mean it's good.

The other easy test is to disconnect one of the battery cables from the battery, set the multimeter on amps, then put it in series between the battery and the cable. That will tell you if there is a parasitic drain on the battery from something that's drawing current but should be switched off.

I's put my money on a bad alternator and/or regulator - easy to test for.

Rzeppa
12-01-2008, 08:48 PM
ok, the fan stopped....and antifreeze is running down my driveway. guess we know why the radiator was empty. Can't tell in the dark, but looks like it is coming from directly underneath the radiator...

It wasn't leaking there on Friday...lower hose connection maybe?

Funny story. You know I popped a heater hose coming down there Friday. When Ricardo was here yesterday we noticed his rear heater leaking :-(

timmbuck2
12-01-2008, 08:52 PM
It wasn't leaking there on Friday...lower hose connection maybe?

Funny story. You know I popped a heater hose coming down there Friday. When Ricardo was here yesterday we noticed his rear heater leaking :-(

ooh...that sucks...

yeah, thinking it might be the lower hose connection.


I don't have a multimeter...maybe I should have one...

Rzeppa
12-01-2008, 09:24 PM
I don't have a multimeter...maybe I should have one...

I heard on the radio the other day that Harbor Freight has them on sale for under $4. Last time they were on sale I bought a case of them, gave most of them away at Rising Sun meeting raffles, keep one in the glove box of each of my rigs plus one in the roll away in the garage. They aren't super accurate, but good enough to diagnose automotive electrical issues. And at a price like that, you can run over it and not worry about it.

RicardoJM
12-01-2008, 09:56 PM
Good work Timm - way to go on figuring out the wheel differences being the root cause of the rolling issue.

Hulk
12-01-2008, 11:08 PM
One other thing...the blower that is in front of the firewall in front of the driver's side is still blowing 10 minutes after I got home and shut the truck off. Is that normal?


What a great story -- and the carb cooling fan actually works! Mine works on my 40 as well, once Joe Calleja showed me the secret clam shell fuse holder above the steering column.

Uh oh...here we go with a carb cooling fan discussion!

Yup. Are these only on late model 40s? Or all 40s?

ok, the fan stopped.

Mine will run 10-15 minutes after I park the 40. Sounds like it is functioning normally. :thumb:

subzali
12-02-2008, 08:41 AM
They are on late model 40s and 60s for sure, maybe some carb'd 70s and 80s as well...

There was just a LONG discussion on the cruizers.com board years back (before I knew about Rising Sun or MUD - nakman, cardinal or 60wag might remember) - people were getting out of their trucks at stoplights to figure out if it was on/running, timing it after all kinds of driving conditions, temperatures, etc., to figure out how the thing was supposed to work. And everyone was worried that it was drawing a lot of current and draining down their batteries. Kinda funny, but annoying that it went on for so long and it was definitely beating a dead horse...

Timm - I did the same thing as Zepp did and have been handing out multimeters all this year at the meeting raffles - I think people are sick of them but I still have some left...

stanmich
12-03-2008, 05:48 PM
A double post (see here (http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=7709&page=3)) but again, many thanks to Rising Sun, especially Timm and Jeff. Words cannot express...

timmbuck2
12-05-2008, 11:14 AM
Pics for your enjoyment

Rzeppa
12-05-2008, 06:39 PM
Nice! Thanks for posting those photos up!

timmbuck2
12-18-2008, 11:08 PM
12V when not running...12-13V when running...

120amp drain when hooked inline...

T


As (I think) I wrote in a previous post, I was remiss in not measuring what was going on electrically with this rig. I know from getting my grubby hands on her and eyeballing her, there is not a visible problem with the battery cables, although there can be a hidden problem inside where the cables go into the terminals. I doubt that's the problem.

There are two easy tests you can do with a multimeter. One is to set the multimeter on volts and measure the battery voltage with the engine off. If it is around 12-12.5 volts that's normal. Then start the engine up and measure again. It should be around 13.8-14.2 volts. If it is is lower, it is likely that the charging system isn't charging. If it is, but there is a problem starting the rig, then it may be a bad battery, or even bad connections between the battery and ground and starter. I connected the battery ground myself to the frame, and it looked fine, but that doesn't mean it's good.

The other easy test is to disconnect one of the battery cables from the battery, set the multimeter on amps, then put it in series between the battery and the cable. That will tell you if there is a parasitic drain on the battery from something that's drawing current but should be switched off.

I's put my money on a bad alternator and/or regulator - easy to test for.

Rzeppa
12-19-2008, 08:05 PM
12V when not running...12-13V when running...

120amp drain when hooked inline...

T

LOL! You must mean 120mA. 120 Amps and we're talking towering inferno, or at least arc welder! But 120 mA will be enough to drain even a good battery overnight or over a day or two.

Those are low readings, both running and not. The fact that it's higher when running signals that the alternator is working properly. But it should be closer to 12.5 on a well-charged battery and closer to 13.8 to 14.2 with a properly operating regulator with the engine spinning at 1000 RPM or better.

The parasitic drain can be troubleshot. With the multimeter connected to measure the current drain, you simply start disconnecting potential loads, such as the ignition system. The easy way to do that is pulling fuses.

timmbuck2
12-30-2008, 04:50 PM
After talking about it with Stan, it looks like I will be parting it out for him and donating all proceeds to his mom's charity. I think the engine and tranny are spoken for by Ricardo, and I will probably grab the front axle and use the disc brakes on my 40. Everything else is up for grabs. I will get a detailed post on Mud and then post it here as well. Wish me luck. :) Will also need to borrow a trailer to haul the carcass to the junkyard sometime soon.

T