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View Full Version : Had to smack the starter this morning...


nakman
01-13-2009, 08:45 AM
I have had the starter contact parts in my 80 for about 3 years. This morning, of all mornings, the 80 decided not to start. But I was able to pull back that flap in the wheel well and tap the starter with the end of an axe handle, after which she fired right up. Was kind of nice to actually use that little piece of advice, one that I have given so many others in the past but until today never got to use it personally.

This is the first time the truck would not start. Before, I have gotten a 1-2 second delay when turning the key, but then it would always start afterwards. Anyone want to wager a guess on how many more starts I have? It's cold out, and my knuckles hurt just thinking about going in there this weekend...

60wag
01-13-2009, 09:13 AM
I'd offer up some garage space but I don't think your truck would fit through the door.

Air Randy
01-13-2009, 09:19 AM
Unless its over 8 1/2 feet tall it will fit in my place. Nice & warm, air tools, mmmhhhmmmm...........

MDH33
01-13-2009, 10:28 AM
Tim, I have new OEM contacts and plunger in an FJ60 starter I rebuilt. The starter was shot, so I ended up buying a whole new unit but the new contacts and plunger are still in the old one. I think I heard these are the same as an 80 (?)

Yours if you need them.

Uncle Ben
01-13-2009, 10:46 AM
Tim,
Check the amperage draw of your starter. Contacts shouldn't have died that quick. A Toyo reman might be your answer!

nakman
01-13-2009, 10:54 AM
It's got to be the contacts, 160,500 miles on the original ones. I've already got the parts, and the plunger, just need to pop them in. This "problem" started 3+ years ago, usually I just turn the key another time and it would start. Today was the first day I had to tap the starter to get it to live again. I'll be driving to pick up a new machine at lunch, so will have a couple more starting opportunities this afternoon... I'm almost positive it will start without issue, the starter just happened to land on the bad spot last night.

rover67
01-13-2009, 11:47 AM
It's a cool trick. I was so used to doing it on the old rover I had that the starter started to look like a beat up old tin can from all the beatings it got!

treerootCO
01-13-2009, 12:21 PM
read post #21

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/233993-starter-neutral-safety-switch.html

nakman
01-13-2009, 12:28 PM
Thanks. And in post 1 you'll see that the contacts had already been replaced. I can't see anyone arguing replacing starter contacts at 160K miles is premature, right? But I will clean up that connector while I'm in there.

Ken, any more problems with Sarah's 80 starting?

treerootCO
01-13-2009, 12:41 PM
Thanks. And in post 1 you'll see that the contacts had already been replaced. I can't see anyone arguing replacing starter contacts at 160K miles is premature, right? But I will clean up that connector while I'm in there.

Ken, any more problems with Sarah's 80 starting?

I would replace the contacts...not worth the burn the rig to the ground issue. Romer replaced the contacts in Sarah's truck and then found the neutral safety switch was causing an intermittent no start that was temporarily resolved by smacking the starter.

corsair23
01-13-2009, 01:24 PM
Thanks. And in post 1 you'll see that the contacts had already been replaced. I can't see anyone arguing replacing starter contacts at 160K miles is premature, right? But I will clean up that connector while I'm in there.

Ken, any more problems with Sarah's 80 starting?


I thought the problem with the 80 here awhile ago was like the problem Ken had with Sarah's 80...No click, no noise, just nothing. I spent the time looking at the connector and nada. Replaced the contacts (probably originals with 110K miles on them) and :thumb:. If you haven't replaced the PHH now is the perfect time to do it with the starter out. You probably saw my post where I did just that and how much/little antifreeze I lost (based on your just do it nudge :hill:).

I you need garage space let me know...For me it was a full day so you could probably knock it out in under 60 minutes :D

nakman
01-14-2009, 08:24 AM
Well I'm definitely on borrowed time here. Yesterday I had at least two "delayed" starts, luckily this morning it fired right up, which was especially sweet since I was again parked in a snowbank.. :rolleyes:

And thanks guys for all the garage and parts offers above, I'm not sure how my weekend is shaping up but I've got a feeling it's going to involve pulling the starter, just not sure when. Jeff my PHH is done, so is the fuel filter... I'm sure both were done in about 10 minutes. ;)

Romer
01-14-2009, 08:44 AM
Might try jiggling the connector on the transmission next time in case its the problem I had. I was thrown off by a smack to the starter helping it start.

Uncle Ben
01-14-2009, 08:45 AM
Hmmmmm....I guess I mis interpreted the senario.... This is what I now think you mean....You bought starter contacks 3 years ago and while they are in the truck they are NOT in the starter? Another version.....You have never replaced the starter contact in the actual starter on your truck but have parts on hand. :confused: :rolleyes: :homer:

nakman
01-14-2009, 08:51 AM
Hmmmmm....I guess I mis interpreted the senario.... This is what I now think you mean....You bought starter contacks 3 years ago and while they are in the truck they are NOT in the starter? Another version.....You have never replaced the starter contact in the actual starter on your truck but have parts on hand. :confused: :rolleyes: :homer:

yup, that about sums it up. :o

treerootCO
01-14-2009, 09:26 AM
If you can fit in the fenderwell without taking off the tire, you can save a step. :D

Uncle Ben
01-14-2009, 09:33 AM
yup, that about sums it up. :o

OIC.....:rolleyes: ;)

Rzeppa
01-15-2009, 05:08 PM
After reading the clarification that you have new contacts but they haven't been installed yet, I might add to the collective. The IHZ starter is nearly identical to the 1FZ starter, I would guess the solenoid parts are about exactly the same. From the time I first had issues but they were intermittent, and gradually became more pesky to the point that I never knew whether I'd get out of the parking lot and get home, and was forced to replace the contacts was about a year of near daily driving. YMMV but hopefully that will give you a first hand time frame on this wear-out mode.

nakman
01-15-2009, 09:36 PM
Thanks Jeff, just the experience I was looking for. One advantage you had in the 75 over the 80 was a clutch and a hill... and a method a lot of us have perfected at some point in our lives. Anyway I'm going to tear into this on Saturday, and now that the snow is off the streets the 80 can stay parked until then. ;)

60wag
01-16-2009, 09:18 AM
So do you just replace the two contacts or is the plunger to be replaced also?

treerootCO
01-16-2009, 09:25 AM
That is one of those....since you are already in there items.

Plunger, M - 28235-54380 - $20 if you pay full retail price...

Red_Chili
01-16-2009, 10:34 AM
IME with minitrucks the plunger is good for two sets of contacts. The problem is that the contacts do not erode evenly, which cants the plunger until it doesn't 'make'. But yeah, for $20 (or less)...

Rzeppa
01-16-2009, 10:02 PM
Thanks Jeff, just the experience I was looking for. One advantage you had in the 75 over the 80 was a clutch and a hill... and a method a lot of us have perfected at some point in our lives. Anyway I'm going to tear into this on Saturday, and now that the snow is off the streets the 80 can stay parked until then. ;)

I would add to that that if you are stuck in a snowdrift, the solenoid won't make contact but the battery still has plenty of juice, you can actually bump-start yourself with an 8274. Terry Holben and I did this :D

Rzeppa
01-16-2009, 10:05 PM
IME with minitrucks the plunger is good for two sets of contacts. The problem is that the contacts do not erode evenly, which cants the plunger until it doesn't 'make'. But yeah, for $20 (or less)...

Exactly right. Metal transfers from one and not the other, and the disk gets crooked when it slams down there. Once you've had a worn one apart on your workbench it becomes obvious.

Dion at Mountain States gave me a handful (2 of each they had) for free, I found the two that were closest to what I needed and a little work with the dremel, hammer and vise and they were just like new OEM.

nakman
01-17-2009, 04:34 PM
The hardest part of the job, as we all know, is getting the starter off. Took me a solid hour to do that, then another 30 minutes to swap the contacts and plunger, then about 20 minutes to get it buttoned back up... so a good 2 hour job.

My plunger was easily as worn as either of the two contacts, maybe even more.

nakman
01-17-2009, 04:37 PM
Not wanting to mix up any of the little bits, I did one side at a time. Again, the plunger was worse looking than either of the two contacts. Also one of my new contacts was a little smaller than the one that came out of there, but I chose not to worry about that. Sure is a satisfying feeling hearing the truck fire right up after you get it all back together, here are the rest of the pictures:

Rzeppa
01-17-2009, 06:35 PM
That looks exactly as I remember the 1HZ solenoid. And as I recall, getting the starter out/in was the biggest part of the project. I had to take the oil filter out on the 1HZ to get the starter motor to clear.

Hopefully you found what I did: once you have the starter motor solenoid out and look at it, it all becomes fairly obvious.

Your ring looks a lot more pitted than mine was; I just took a wire wheel to it and smoothed out the contact surfaces, but yours looks like replacement was the right thing to do given the loss of copper. In the photo of the contacts, that pretty much looks like my recollection of the difference in + versus - contacts in terms of metal loss.

After all the starters I've replaced on 22REs, 1HZs, Chevey 350s etc., I have become so thankful that on an F or 2F it's about 15 minutes instead of an hour job.