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jettaglxdriver
03-10-2009, 08:14 PM
I just purchased a 1982 FJ60 and have discovered the head gasket is blown or the head is cracked or possibly both.

I received my head gasket replacement kit today via UPS from JT outfitters and was wondering if there is anything else I will be needing besides coolant, my can of copper head gasket prep spray, oil, tools, and rags. I have a Factory service manual for the 2F engine and have looked through it and have done head gaskets on other cars in the past. I have read the head bolts are re-usable on these engines. Is it safe to assume I am looking at a one day job if the head is not cracked or warped? If it is cracked/warped can you all recommend a good local machine shop to handle the repairs? I recently had a 1976 Audi 100LS head re-built by colorado custom machining and he did it pretty well at a good price.

Here is the other part. I live in a town home that has a 1 car garage that my VW Jetta project currently occupies and don't know if I can pull off a head gasket project in my driveway and I don't know if the HOA people will freak out if I do it (they are like oil spot Nazi's). Does anyone have space and time to assist a Cruiser noob with this project? I can compensate for your time if it is reasonable. I'd like to get to know this group more also (plan on signing up for membership and such for this summer) so it could be fun. I don't know how much people in this group do stuff like this so I thought I'd ask. In the past with my VW people we would jump in and help each other out frequently and try to stay sober enough to finish the work.

Thanks
:beer:


BTW here is a picture of my Jetta project it is a 1995 Jetta VR6 with a large turbo kit installed and stand alone engine management. I took it apart for the color change and engine bay shaving and have not finished it yet.
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/31/l_fbff52499d4a68e55c45013722d64f10.jpg

Air Randy
03-11-2009, 09:33 AM
Your message doesnt say but I'm assuming you have a 2F? Since you are trying to do this in one day I would suggest you post up and see if you can buy a 2F head cheap and send it out to get the valves & guides done in advance in addition to getting the head planed and trued up. If you dont know how long it has been since/if that was done to your engine then it probably needs it. Gunn Automotive on Federal Blvd is where I had mine done. It was about $250 to have the valves re-ground, new seals and valve springs installed. If you dont need new springs and no valves or guides replaced your bill will be less.

I think it would be a major mistake to replace the head gasket on a straight 6 like the 2F without getting the head planed at a minimum Lots of people do it but you run the risk of having your new head gasket fail prematurely.

If you've done this type of work before, doing it on a 2F is very easy. Soak the intake and exhaust manifold bolts down good with PB Blaster the night before. Follow the basic disassembly/reassembly steps in the manual and you should be able to do it in a day no problem.

MDH33
03-11-2009, 10:12 AM
Also, you might want to get the 2F emissions manual. The vacuum tube spaghetti on a 60 is a nightmare and you'll have all sorts of issues if it's not reconnected properly.

jettaglxdriver
03-11-2009, 10:32 AM
This 2F looks to be about 1/2 desmogged already and I am registered in El Paso county so no emissions tests for me.

Gun automotive is right by my work (Denver Public Schools service bldg) so I will check them out. Any leads on a good used head for rebuild?

Rzeppa
03-11-2009, 08:41 PM
X2 on what Martin wrote. And, there is a specific way to "properly" desmog a 60 (or 40 of similar vintage). Doing an improper desmog job will result in all kinds of issues. Among the things one has to do to "properly" desmog a 60 will be recurving the distributor.

Disclaimer: It is against federal law to tamper with or otherwise render ineffective any emissions control devices that came from the factory.

jettaglxdriver
03-11-2009, 08:51 PM
X2 on what Martin wrote. And, there is a specific way to "properly" desmog a 60 (or 40 of similar vintage). Doing an improper desmog job will result in all kinds of issues. Among the things one has to do to "properly" desmog a 60 will be recurving the distributor.

Disclaimer: It is against federal law to tamper with or otherwise render ineffective any emissions control devices that came from the factory.

OH I would never intentionally tamper with factory emissions equipment.

Please see above picture of my car with a very clean and un-cluttered engine bay. :)

Air Randy
03-11-2009, 10:40 PM
Go to the IH8MUD.com website and post up in the "Want to Buy" section and you will get lots of responses.

jettaglxdriver
03-12-2009, 08:51 AM
Will do thanks.

jettaglxdriver
03-14-2009, 01:24 PM
I have decided to pull the head in my driveway and try to get it rebuilt quickly. Wish me luck.

wesintl
03-14-2009, 01:44 PM
good luck. It's not that hard just heavy getting that head on and off. It's also a pita getting all that spaghetti hooked up right.

I've seen more than several 60 heads with cracks. make sure you get it checked out.

jettaglxdriver
03-14-2009, 04:08 PM
Yeah I hope to have it off in about another 30 minutes. I have everything but the rockers and head bolts loose. Checking my manual for reverse order for bolts to unload them properly.

jettaglxdriver
03-14-2009, 06:22 PM
Well the head is off and it looks like there is a crack in it. Right in the middle between 3 and 4 where the large water hole is in it. The crack leads from the hole toward the middle of the 3 and 4 cylinders but it does not reach them. I wonder if it is cracked through to the intake or exhaust port?

I took pics but I cannot upload them because I cannot find the damn USB cable to transfer them. :(

Going to see if I can get it looked at on Monday.

jettaglxdriver
03-16-2009, 06:05 PM
Well I went by Gun today and there is 2 cracks the one I noticed by the water port and the big one half way through one of the compression cylinders. They evaluated that and told me it was not rebuildable.

I now desperately need a good or re-buildable head.

If anyone knows of sources I could contact for one please pass it on. Thanks so much.

I have tried:
Rising Sun Forum
Colorado Landcruisers forum
Jim's Toyota parts

subzali
03-16-2009, 06:26 PM
ih8mud.com

cruiserparts.net (shipping from New Hampshire - but hey maybe it's your best bet)

go check out local boneyards - sometimes they have 60s sitting around.

yotayard had 60s last time I checked too

wesintl
03-16-2009, 06:29 PM
colorado auto parts sometimes gets 60's

pull-n-save sometimes gets one

Try oleg...

Try yotayard.

proffits; safari ltd.

http://www.car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi

984
Head(Cylinder)
Toyota Land Cruiser gas- 846901 $250 Lon's Automotive USA-CO(Bayfield) Request_Quote 1-800-452-4542 Request_Insurance_Quote
1985
Head(Cylinder)
Toyota Land Cruiser A 85IO32 $150 Aragon Iron & Metal USA-CO(Ft.-Collins) E-mail 1-800-424-2577

rover67
03-16-2009, 06:31 PM
The u-pull it down near Irbis Offroad had a few 60's the last time i went there.. may want to go check it out.

1370 Zeno Street
Aurora, Co

There may be other places with more 60's.

jettaglxdriver
03-16-2009, 07:08 PM
You guys rock. I just moved here last year from the Springs so I am still new to knowing these sources. This will help me so much.


Thanks

Air Randy
03-16-2009, 07:54 PM
Related question: Whats the difference between a head off of a 2F in a 60 compared to the head off of a 2F from say an FJ40? Other than the bolt on stuff like thermostat housing, etc?

wesintl
03-16-2009, 08:02 PM
depends on the year. early 2f had domed pistons... later did not. you just have to shave the head to get compression back. I put a 76ish 2f head on my 60. shaved 1 over.

jettaglxdriver
03-16-2009, 08:30 PM
OK now that you went there. Is there anything that can be done to the 2f head while it is being rebuilt to offer any more power? Is there any point? I'm not trying to build a race truck but can $100 extra work give some more power in the end? What if I intend to put on headers also? What is the choke point on this engine? The fact it is a very old tractor design?

Rzeppa
03-16-2009, 10:59 PM
I have a 2F from a 60 in my garage I got from a fellow Rising Sun member, who got it from another Rising Sun member. If you need it you can have it (or just the head if that's all you need) for free. I was planning on building this 2F but you probably need it sooner than I do, you are welcome to it.

Air Randy
03-16-2009, 11:27 PM
You can have the head milled a little to raise the compression, but if you go too high you will have to burn premium gas. You can add a header which will help it breath a little bit better at this altitude but not a big HP increase..

You might want to look closely at your cam while it's tore down this far to see what kind of shape it's in, some of them pit out and wear down pretty bad. If it needs replaced you can put a performance cam in it, which usually requires stronger valve springs so you need to decide while you're rebuilding the head.

You can also install an HEI distributor and send your carb out for a performance rebuild. Same basics as building a small block Chevy, just throw lots of dollars at it and it will go a little faster.

jettaglxdriver
03-17-2009, 11:00 AM
Cool. To look at the cam (trying to remember from work here). Can I see it from the side covers or should I just pull the timing cover/chain and pull the cam out? Hmm with the money saved from possibly getting the head from Jeff I might be able to do the cam and springs at the same time.

Jeff I am sending you a PM for phone contact if you don't mind. Keep in mind I am not a "member" yet but hope to become one soon enough.

Thanks

jettaglxdriver
03-18-2009, 01:24 PM
Still eager to hear back from Rzeppa about that head/engine.

subzali
03-18-2009, 01:31 PM
timing on these trucks is by gear, not chain.

I don't know how to access the cam, but I'm guessing since you don't have any garage space (I don't know where you're working on this), I would say you probably want to get this back together ASAP. I would say the performance gains you get from messing with the cam (who knows how much extra time and $$) aren't going to really feel like much. Some say the best thing you could do for a 2F is to get it balanced. Either way, you're trying to move a 4000+# truck with a 155 hp or so engine, derated because of the altitude.

Just MHO

60wag
03-18-2009, 02:11 PM
The easiest way to see the cam is from below. Pull the oil pan and you can see all of the lobes.

Air Randy
03-18-2009, 02:19 PM
You can look at the cam by pulling the side cover off, or if you have the oil pan off for other reasons you can see it by looking up from underneath.

You can buy a complete RV cam kit that has the cam, re-ground lifters and valve springs for $235 from Man-a-fre. If you replace the cam you need to replace the lifters or have your's resurfaced and reground.

To be clear, I was suggesting to replace the cam only if yours shows sign of serious wear, and if it does do it now since you have to replace the valve springs if you go with a performance or RV cam. You can certainly replace the cam anyways if you are looking at just a performance upgrade.

Any performance upgrade you do whether it is a cam or headers will only result in incremental increases in HP. Headers & high flow exhaust alone may result in a 5% HP increase. A cam alone may result in a 3% HP increase. Doing them together may result in something more like a 10% - 12% increase since the longer duration cam takes advantage of the higher flowing exhaust.

You also have to keep in mind that if a stock engine was rated at 155 HP new, at sea level, you're probably down to 100 HP because of the elevation here and loss of performance due to wear. So in my opinion, even if you are only getting a 10% to 12% improvement, it will still be noticeable. You wont be out smoking the tires or anything but it should respond crisper and you may see a slight improvement in fuel mileage.

jettaglxdriver
03-18-2009, 04:25 PM
Yeah my plan was to just get it fixed and running because I need to be driving this. I will check the cam from below and maybe from the side because I am trying to stop oil drips. I will also pull the timing cover to redo that seal. Time to order some gaskets. Still needing to source a good head.

If I want more power then I will just save up for a motor swap. I just want to get this bad boy to last a couple years then when we move and get a real garage I will look into a Tundra motor swap so I can do a V8 and keep it in the family.

I am off work Mon, Tues, and Wed next week and I am going to cry if I sit without the parts I need able to not do much.

Rzeppa
03-18-2009, 08:41 PM
Still eager to hear back from Rzeppa about that head/engine.

PM sent

jettaglxdriver
03-22-2009, 05:12 PM
Well I met Jeff yesterday and I must say he is an exceptionally nice guy and is super helpful. The drive to and from his place was great also.

I got the head he had on that old engine and cleaned it up more with some brake cleaner and a brass wire wheel and I can find no cracks at all. YAY

Tomorrow morning I will be waiting on Gun Automotive to open their doors to see if they can get through the head as quickly as possible.

Thanks again Jeff. (Nice cruisers)

Rzeppa
03-22-2009, 05:20 PM
Mike and Barb were exceptionally nice folks as well, and I am so happy to see cruiser parts going to a good home. I really enjoyed our visit together and look forward to wrenching and wheeling together!

jettaglxdriver
03-22-2009, 08:26 PM
Heck yeah.

jettaglxdriver
03-30-2009, 05:41 PM
Well I picked my head up today from Gun Autotmotive.

They used some of the valves from my cracked head, the rocker assembly from the cracked head, and my new valve seals from the head gasket kit and got it rebuilt. The thing looks brand new and checked out fine.

Now to determine which of the next few days will be the nicest to take off work and re-assemble it. Don't worry I get a paid day off for being on call the last week 24/7 so I will be in good with my boss yet.

Here is my cruiser and where it is sitting for this work that is being done to it.
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/93/l_53fd24e96b0f402e840ecaf1e2f1f4ed.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/72/l_ea63c1ff14bc46329f2e3b65eda0db0b.jpg

MDH33
03-30-2009, 05:52 PM
Nice looking rig, looks a lot like my 60. :)

But Holy cow! Those are some long shackles! :eek: Next mod - OME lift?? ;)

jettaglxdriver
03-30-2009, 05:58 PM
LOL you get the prize for being the first to notice my ghetto shackles that one of the PO's had put on it to help with the sag.

I don't what lift I am going to go with yet but I plan on new springs, shocks, and greasable shackles. I will be doing much more research and searching to find out what is the best way to go. I have read some on the parabolic springs and wonder if they are really better. Does anyone on here know about them?

wesintl
03-30-2009, 06:08 PM
Nice... it'll feel good to get it on.. just be careful. trying to get that thing on without damaging the HG can be a chore by yourself. heavy

Rzeppa
03-30-2009, 06:21 PM
LOL! First thing I noticed was the shackles too! Glad that head worked out for you. Happy cruisin'!

jettaglxdriver
03-30-2009, 07:27 PM
The scary thing on those pieces of metal serving as shackles is the lack of cross supports between the bolts.

MDH33
03-30-2009, 07:30 PM
LOL you get the prize for being the first to notice my ghetto shackles that one of the PO's had put on it to help with the sag.

I don't what lift I am going to go with yet but I plan on new springs, shocks, and greasable shackles. I will be doing much more research and searching to find out what is the best way to go. I have read some on the parabolic springs and wonder if they are really better. Does anyone on here know about them?

They don't call them "draggin' wagons" for nothing. :hill:

http://mdhuber.smugmug.com/photos/335597993_CW776-S.jpg

I need some new springs too. I've been researching it and am going to go with the OME with the heavies in the rear since I usually have camping gear in back and my tent on the roof. it's only a 2.5" lift, so nothing severe.

Air Randy
03-31-2009, 10:24 AM
I have an engine hoist you are welcome to borrow or I could possibly swing by to give you a hand when you are ready to set the head in place. Where in El Paso county are you located? I'm in Franktown.

Are you coming to the Rising Sun meeting tomorrow night? You should meet up with the group and get to know everyone.

jettaglxdriver
03-31-2009, 01:10 PM
I am actually in Aurora off Quincy and Parker. I am thinking I will take Friday off work since the weather looks to be the best then.

I was really planning on coming to the next RS meeting but it's race night for my RC cars at MHOR and I love my RC racing. I just got a new body painted up for my truck and I am dying to run it. I took 1st place in the A main last wed.

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/108/l_f754d873f8eb4d9582c23df552bc190d.jpg

jettaglxdriver
03-31-2009, 09:15 PM
Well today after work I got the head on (made a nice rope handle using the threads for the rocker mounts to anchor off of so I could lift this thing easier. I didn't knock the head gasket around or mash it up at all. Got the head torqued, rockers on and bolts torqued, intake and exhaust mani's on, carb on, linkage hooked up, exhaust hooked, up and many other misc things done.

I still have to finish the front of the motor then reassemble the rest of the engine bay and actually get it running again. Friday should be the finish day.

Rzeppa
04-02-2009, 01:15 AM
Well today after work I got the head on (made a nice rope handle using the threads for the rocker mounts to anchor off of so I could lift this thing easier. I didn't knock the head gasket around or mash it up at all. Got the head torqued, rockers on and bolts torqued, intake and exhaust mani's on, carb on, linkage hooked up, exhaust hooked, up and many other misc things done.

I still have to finish the front of the motor then reassemble the rest of the engine bay and actually get it running again. Friday should be the finish day.

Woo Hoo!

jettaglxdriver
04-03-2009, 11:01 PM
The cruiser is alive again. After working on it most of the day today while we still had some nice weather I got it all back together and it's running pretty good. I still need to keep an eye out for leaks and watch the coolant level but it's running good.


Thanks all for the help and advice and thanks so much Jeff for the head. Gunn did a great job with it.

Hulk
04-04-2009, 01:01 AM
Great news.

Oh, what a feeling... Toyota!

Rzeppa
04-06-2009, 09:32 PM
Awesome Mike! WTG!

jettaglxdriver
04-06-2009, 09:44 PM
Next I need to call Slee and see if they have any of hte Marlin Crawler axle seals in stock for my next project. I'd had an order in with Marlin and he called me telling me they were out for a while but after talking some more and finding out I was in the Denver area he pointed me to slee saying he recently sent some that way.

ElliottB
06-01-2009, 03:33 PM
Any updates on how she's running?

When I get back from Moab, my gasket kit should have arrived and will start reassembling my head and all of the other components. Rebuilt PS pump, new water pump, all new gaskets, no more engine grime, completely desmogged, rebuilt carb, recurved distributor... should run like a dream.

Also, whats the deal with that copper spray you were mentioning?

jettaglxdriver
06-01-2009, 05:05 PM
It is a copper head gasket prep spray. I ended up not actually using it because the head is so damn heavy.

The truck is running really good so far.

ElliottB
06-01-2009, 05:38 PM
Sounds good! I am getting my head machined at Gunn Automotive, the guys there seem really helpful and skilled. My projected date in July for initial startup may not be such a wild feat afterall!

jettaglxdriver
06-22-2009, 01:56 PM
Well the saga continues. Today driving the cruiser is started smoking coolant like a locomotive. I am going to try and retorque it tonight (not holding my breath there) and hope it is better. Thoughts on what I should do at this point? Gunn machined the head and said it leak tested ok. Perhaps a cracked block or water jacket? Just a tired old engine? Should I get a block and have it machined up and build a short block to put this head on if it has not yet cracked? That would take care of my little oil leaks and stuff and give me some longevity peace of mind.

Advice folks?

FJ_Mark
06-22-2009, 05:15 PM
How long has it run since the HG job? If it's not been too long it might just be built up coolant in the exhaust system. I have done HG jobs where a lot of coolant ended up in the exhaust system/cat etc. And it will smoke like crazy till it all burns out.

jettaglxdriver
06-22-2009, 05:34 PM
3500 miles approx.

Beater
06-22-2009, 10:18 PM
do a full leakdown and compression check. Try and do the compression cold.

j

jettaglxdriver
06-23-2009, 08:02 AM
When it was running like crap a couple weeks ago I did compression and ended up with 120, 110, 110, 115, 110, 120. When the valve cover was off the inside of it was all milky from coolant.

So after re-torquing the bolts again last night it still smokes. SIGH.

ElliottB
06-23-2009, 02:19 PM
How tight are you torquing the bolts? Are you sure the HG is on correctly?

jettaglxdriver
06-23-2009, 02:44 PM
I remember double checking the head gasket and made up a handle to help us maneuver the head into place carefully without jacking the gasket up. I torqued teh bolts to the factor manual spec of 97 ftlbs.

wesintl
06-23-2009, 04:40 PM
you could pull the head again and look at the HG. Are you sure the machine shop checked it for cracks? That would be the first thing I look for. Usually between the valves but i've seen them on the top of heads too. It's harder to find them there due to the oil from the rockers.

jettaglxdriver
06-23-2009, 04:45 PM
Yeah they did a full check for cracks before rebuilding it. The first head I took down there they found a crack on and I got this head from Jeff Zepp and they checked this one out and said it was good and proceeded to rebuild it (Gunn automotive).

I guess I can get another head gasket and try again.

wesintl
06-23-2009, 04:46 PM
oh.. yeah. I guess I could have reread the thread to see you got a good used head. Sorry bout that.

You should be able to see if the HG bad. Did it overheat at all since you did the head?

jettaglxdriver
06-23-2009, 04:50 PM
Could it be that I used a head gasket from a head gasket rebuild kit (cool cruisers I think) instead of a Toyota OEM head gasket?

You think it might be as simple as pulling the head, cleaning it all up, inspecting things, and putting on the proper $140 head gasket and putting it all back together?

wesintl
06-23-2009, 04:54 PM
never know til you look at it. :(

Air Randy
06-23-2009, 05:46 PM
Could it be that I used a head gasket from a head gasket rebuild kit (cool cruisers I think) instead of a Toyota OEM head gasket?

You think it might be as simple as pulling the head, cleaning it all up, inspecting things, and putting on the proper $140 head gasket and putting it all back together?

Possibly but thats a real long shot. It's much more likely the deck of the engine block was warped before. If thats the case it may just be a head gasket leak or it could be the cylinder head has now cracked due to the warp (less likely). If you jts throw another HG on it you might get lucky or it might start leaking again in 1,000 miles. If you pull it apart again you need to check the block deck for warping. I just rebuilt a 1980 2F and Gunn had to take several thou off of the deck to get it straight and flat.

jettaglxdriver
07-06-2009, 01:23 PM
I am going to pull the head again. I should be much faster this time. I am going to get an OEM head gasket.

Stevenson on Havana wants $175 before tax for the OEM gasket. Anyone know where I can get a better price on that part? Also does anyone have a good 1/2 drive torque wrench I can test mine against to make sure it reads properly? What have you all used for a straight edge for these long blocks and heads? Where did you get yours and was it expensive?

Air Randy
07-06-2009, 05:26 PM
I have used NAPA head gaskets, gaskets that Gunn automotive got for me (FelPro) and Toyota OEM gaskets. All have worked just fine so don't be afraid to use a NAPA part or from somewhere else as long as it is a name brand component.

I seriously doubt your torque wrench is far enough off to cause the problem, but you're welcome to use mine if you think that will help. I have no idea how accurate mine is either but it seems to work OK. Just make sure you are following the correct bolt tightening sequence and that you are doing it in 3 separate rotations like 35 lbs, 65 lbs then 97 lbs.

If you buy a decent quality straight edge from Lowe's or Home Depot in the carpentry tools section it should work fine. Make sure the block deck is really, really clean. Consider using a wire wheel on it to be sure. Once you are certain it is spotless, clean it one more time. I have cleaned blocks before and just before I set the head in place I noticed a small doscoloration. Turned out to be a chunk of old gasket you could scrape off with a razor knife.

Once it's clean, put your striaght edge on corner to corner, down the middle, off to each side, etc. Sometimes it helpful to shine a small flashlight behind it so you can see how much light is coming through. If in doubt use a feeler gauge to determine how warped it is.

nuclearlemon
07-06-2009, 06:11 PM
I have used NAPA head gaskets, gaskets that Gunn automotive got for me (FelPro) and Toyota OEM gaskets. All have worked just fine so don't be afraid to use a NAPA part or from somewhere else as long as it is a name brand component.

.

both my friend kim and i used fel pros from napa and had nothing but issues. i went through two of them before getting rid of the cruiser (eight month period), she blew one, threw an oem on after blowing a fel pro and never had another problem. i won't ever use another felpro head gasket on a toyota motor again.

jettaglxdriver
07-06-2009, 07:32 PM
I have read a lot of stuff pointing at using OEM and I am leaning that way. Do we get a dealer discount somewhere?

Air Randy
07-06-2009, 07:39 PM
Yes, Stevenson and Burt both give a significant discount if you tell them you are Rising Sun or TLCA member.

corsair23
07-07-2009, 12:09 AM
Yes, Stevenson and Burt both give a significant discount if you tell them you are Rising Sun or TLCA member.

They do (typically) check the roster that we provide them for your name though so be prepared...Another benefit to being a member of this fine, fine, establishment :) - The other option if you are a MUD member is CDan...All are good people, and Stevenson supports the group by not only giving us discounts on parts but also supplying the meeting space, so I try to spread the wealth out as much as possible :thumb:

ElliottB
07-07-2009, 12:41 AM
Call CruiserDan at American Toyota in Albuquerque. He gives a nice discount to all of the Cruiser guys. Let me know if you need a hand yanking that thing off, I've had mine on and off a couple times now.

jettaglxdriver
07-07-2009, 08:07 AM
Crap here I was thinking tomorrow is the meeting I was going to attend and it was last wed. ARGH.