PDA

View Full Version : Head gasket gone bad?


subzali
04-06-2009, 08:45 PM
I always wondered what milky oil looked like, until tonight.

When trying to chase down some potential reasons why I have oil in my air cleaner housing, I popped off the oil fill cap. There was a white frothy substance on the underside.

I changed the oil four days ago and then drove it home (~30 miles), then did another round trip of about 30 miles a couple days ago.

8 days ago I popped out my front two head bolts and put on my power steering pump, just making sure it went on good so I don't run into problems while my truck was down for the conversion. Well it looks like my plan has backfired. I torqued and retorqued the head bolts to make sure they were ok.

I guess my first mistake is taking out two head bolts out of sequence...shame shame shame on me.

Okay, so what do I need to do? If I take off the head again will it need to be milled again? Or do I check it before I take it in? Should I try changing the oil again just to make sure it wasn't just some residual coolant that got in the oil when the seal on the head broke when I loosened the bolts?

Is it okay for me to drive home, about 35 minutes? Or do I need to tow it there?

sigh, my fault...:(

wesintl
04-06-2009, 09:09 PM
I really doubt that it's the 2 head bolts to put on a ps pump, but it could be. You could do all the regular hg issue checks but if you have the milky oil in the oil cap i'd just pull the head. you either have a crack in it or it's the hg.

bummer.

RicardoJM
04-06-2009, 09:14 PM
I don't have any answers to your questions about what next, but just wanted to post up that I too never new what was meant by milkshake until I saw it in your oil cap and the hose going into the air cleaner.

Not a question for Matt, but for others with head issue experience. Presuming the debugging process gets to the point the head needs to come off, is it possible to use a straight edge to determine if there is any need to mill the head?

wesintl
04-06-2009, 09:16 PM
is it possible to use a straight edge to determine if there is any need to mill the head?

yes. that's what the machine shop does. Problem is I don't have one that is long enough to measure a 2f head.

Hulk
04-06-2009, 09:50 PM
How recently was the head milled? If recently: Since then, have you overheated the engine or done anything that would make you suspect that you have warped the head? If not, then pull the head and inspect. If everything looks good, you can probably replace with a Toyota OEM head gasket, if available.

I'm with Wes: I doubt your recent two-bolt loosen and then retighten is the cause of this.

subzali
04-06-2009, 10:05 PM
Hm.

No overheating, i'd have to check the records but there's definitely less than 10,000 miles on it since I last had it off and milled/rebuilt (just before CM '07).

Other checks? Compression check? How much can I drive it/have the engine running? Will coolant in the oil make the bearings seize?

Jacket
04-06-2009, 10:47 PM
There could be other causes, especially with the weather we've had lately. Were your 30 miles trips continuous, or was it broken up into shorter trips? Short trips, coupled with heavy moisture/humidity in the around or on the ground can cause some moisture buildup near the cap. I've seen a number of Tacomas have this issue (albeit most were east coasters). If you have no other symptoms, it could be something less severe than a head gasket.

Hulk
04-06-2009, 11:25 PM
No overheating, i'd have to check the records but there's definitely less than 10,000 miles on it since I last had it off and milled/rebuilt (just before CM '07).

What brand head gasket did you use when you did the head? There is a significant difference between brands.

Will coolant in the oil make the bearings seize?

No. I'm going to pull a Bill Morgan here and say, "DAMHIK."

One great thing about the old 2F engines: they hold 8 quarts of oil.

60wag
04-07-2009, 05:27 AM
Is the oil in the sump milky? If not then don't jump to pull the head. The slime near the fill cap could be related to a malfunctioning PCV system.

RicardoJM
04-07-2009, 06:59 AM
Is the oil in the sump milky? If not then don't jump to pull the head. The slime near the fill cap could be related to a malfunctioning PCV system.

We did see milkshake slime on the hose from the manifold up to the air cleaner as we were noodling on how oil could be making it into the air cleaner. Then after seeing that went to check the oil filler cap where we found it as well.

Matt did indicate that he had removed the PCV and confirmed that it allows air out one side and does not allow it in the other. This seems like a reasonable test. Are there other diagnostics that could be done with a PCV valve or is one of those items that when it doubt you just replace?

MDH33
04-07-2009, 07:00 AM
What a drag, Matt! You've been plagued with repairs lately.

Air Randy
04-07-2009, 08:56 AM
I would definitely change the oil and filter, assuming you've cleaned all of the visible gook up first, and then drive it some more before I pulled the head.

Drive enough to get the oil good and warm before you drain it. Then about 5 seconds after it starts to drain, catch a sample of the oil. If you send it to Blackstone labs they will charge you $20 and tell if you have significant anti-freeze in your oil as well as be able to tell you how your motor is wearing based on other components found in the oil.

If all of the oil you drain out is milky or there is obviously large quantities of AF in the oil you can skip the oil analysis.

How does your anti-freeze look? Are there any globs of oil in it. Have you done the bubble test where you watch your over flow bottle with the engine running and warm to see if there are any bubbles in it?

There is lots of checking I would do before I tore it down again.

Rzeppa
04-07-2009, 05:34 PM
Milkshake appearance on the underside of the filler cap (and even the PCV hose) can easily be condensation, especially from the up and down weather we've had lately. Check for milk shake on the dipstick too, quick and easy, and won't be subject to condensation like the cap and PCV system is.

More than a few very wise, experienced mechanics have counseled me to always check the easy stuff first before assuming the worst.

Taking those 2 front head bolts off has NEVER caused a problem for me. Heck, you have to take them off to R&R the air cleaner housing on an F. I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

Lastly, you can smell antifreeze in the exhaust when there is enough there.

I would suggest cleaning up the underside of the cap, driving her a bit and checking again. Changing the oil as was suggested isn't a terrible idea either. I would worry about HG or cracked head too, but check the easy stuff first before going through the time and expense of pulling the head. FWIW, with those 8 qts of oil, driving a bit, even with some coolant in there, won't hurt much in the short term if you really have an issue.

Uncle Ben
04-07-2009, 06:40 PM
Milky oil on the cap is from crappy oil (probably Pennzoil) holding water and getting whipped by the crankshaft. A lot of short trips compounds the issue as the trapped water cannot evaporate off as the oil never gets really hot.

Uncle Ben
04-07-2009, 06:45 PM
Milkshake appearance on the underside of the filler cap (and even the PCV hose) can easily be condensation, especially from the up and down weather we've had lately. Check for milk shake on the dipstick too, quick and easy, and won't be subject to condensation like the cap and PCV system is.

More than a few very wise, experienced mechanics have counseled me to always check the easy stuff first before assuming the worst.

Taking those 2 front head bolts off has NEVER caused a problem for me. Heck, you have to take them off to R&R the air cleaner housing on an F. I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

Lastly, you can smell antifreeze in the exhaust when there is enough there.

I would suggest cleaning up the underside of the cap, driving her a bit and checking again. Changing the oil as was suggested isn't a terrible idea either. I would worry about HG or cracked head too, but check the easy stuff first before going through the time and expense of pulling the head. FWIW, with those 8 qts of oil, driving a bit, even with some coolant in there, won't hurt much in the short term if you really have an issue.

I should have read Zepps post first....my bad. I agree with Jeff....change the oil and drive it and see if it does it again!

subzali
04-07-2009, 07:26 PM
Valvoline...

BTW OEM headgasket.

the check was done after about 1/2 hour of driving around trying to find a parts store, so the engine was pretty hot.

TIMZTOY
04-11-2009, 05:52 PM
try to source up a cooling system pressure tester from autozone or oreillys.. see if the system holds pressure(you can rent them).. you can also take off the rad cap off with the truck running, and see if there is pressure.. (ie compression leaking into the cooling, which will be very aparent from the large amount of bubbles) i doubt thats your problem though..if not odds are that you have a slight tear in the HeadGasket between the cyliender and oil passage.. the air flow from the compression will aerate the oil causing the milkshake.. same affect of a bad pcv. you could also pull the plugs and peek inside see if there are any sighns of antifreeze or un burned oil..
:beer:

Rezarf
04-11-2009, 07:41 PM
You could drain the oil in a clean container and check it out... even put it back if it looks good.

I'd try everything before pulling the head.

Drew

TIMZTOY
04-11-2009, 11:40 PM
tru that.. pulling the head should be last resort

PabloCruise
04-12-2009, 10:54 PM
Dang Matt, what a bummer...

Any signs of combustion in the coolant?

Does this coincide in any way with your lack of heat?

Air Randy
04-13-2009, 08:16 AM
Matt,

Does you heater/engine have trouble getting warm? If your thermostat is bad and your engine isn't warming up properly, it will certainly magnify the milkshake on the cap stuff since it's not getting hot enough to evaporate the moisture out of the crankcase.

DaveInDenver
04-13-2009, 08:20 AM
try to source up a cooling system pressure tester
FWIW, I have a cooling system pressure testing kit. Matt, you are welcome to borrow it anytime.

subzali
04-17-2009, 06:57 PM
I haven't been driving the truck because I thought I would drive it home today and park it and start my power steering conversion. Well I ended up driving it today to get around in the snow. I checked the cap after it had been warm for a while and it was dry, and the dipstick showed no signs of the foamy stuff.

I'll keep checking it. I'm not real sure if my temp. gauge is off or what; it hasn't reached the "normal operating" range on the needle for quite some time, and this is after I've put several thermostats in it and tried my best to figure it out. I took a temp gun and shot the top of the radiator and thermostat housing in several places and it looked like 180F (or whatever the t-stat is rated for) at the t-stat housing, but the radiator had a weird temp pattern across it. Anyway I'll continue to keep an eye on it and see what happens.

PabloCruise
04-19-2009, 09:41 AM
Keep us posted Matt, it sounds frustrating.

But I'm glad you don't have a blown head gasket!!!

Rzeppa
04-19-2009, 01:51 PM
I checked the cap after it had been warm for a while and it was dry, and the dipstick showed no signs of the foamy stuff.

Matt, I have had the same observation in my 71. Every once in a while I'll see milkshake on the underside of the oil fill cap (never on the dipstick, or when changing oil). My guess is condensation, as it always goes away and I have no other indications of anything wrong.