PDA

View Full Version : Brahma's Saginaw/FJ60 Power Steering Conversion


subzali
04-26-2009, 10:54 PM
Against all my better engineering judgment ("not knowing 'enough' information") I have begun my long sought-after power steering conversion. I liked the premise of TJ's FJ60 power steering (http://forum.ih8mud.com/co-wy-horsetooth-4-wheelers-cruiser-club/84527-fj60-power-steering-conversion-fj40-while-keeping-air-pump.html) and after seeing Mark Whatley's article in July/August 2003 TT on it as well I wanted to try it with my own tweaks. A couple other guys in the club have done it as well so after many hours of talking and figuring I felt I had enough to actually pull the trigger and go with it. Of course there were some issues that came up a couple days ago that attempted to halt it again, but I was already steaming up to get 'er done!

So here's the breakdown:
-FJ40 steering wheel
-FJ55 steering column (splined at firewall vs. rag joint)
-U-joints from FJ55 intermediate shaft to mate to bottom of steering column at firewall
-FJ60 steering column, taken apart and used to mate up with FJ55 column to become the new intermediate shaft. Since the 60 column is collapsible, and is held in place with a couple plastic pins, you can punch out the plastic pins and all the sudden you have yourself a slip joint to allow the frame to flex different than the body.
-FJ60 steering box
-LHD J7 drag link end
-LHD J7 drag link tube
-FJ40 driver's side TRE
-FJ40 tie rods (small taper)
-FJ40 knuckles (small pattern)
-Ford F-250 shock towers
-GM Saginaw power steering pump
-JT Outfitters bracket, pulley, and high pressure hose EDIT: Use a Volvo 240 pump/pulley setup, see page 9. It fits a wide belt instead of the JTO solution which is for a narrow belt.
-FJ60 power steering cooler, rebent to mount in my FJ40.

So when I'm done I will have 40/55/60/70/GM steering ;)

I liked the FJ60 box because I saw it could work, for some reason I never really liked the idea of full Saginaw conversions, and I didn't want minitruck because it keeps all of the relay rods etc. which I consider to be "unnecessary" and just add more places where slop can form. Currently my steering has quite the wander, mostly because of my steering box (I put on new TREs and rebuilt the Center Arm before I finally saw the steering box itself had slop) and this is my solution.

Here's some questions I asked on IH8MUD about the differences between Saginaw boxes and FJ60 boxes (http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/240904-power-steering-box-questions.html)

I wanted to use an FJ60 power steering pump, but the Saginaw has more boost I understand and since my block wasn't tapped for the stock power steering pump bracket, I figured I would go with the JT Outfitters bracket because I could fit a Sanden air pump underneath the power steering pump and have OBA.

The beauty, I think, of what I'm going to try and do here, is that I'm going to use a modified Land Cruiser drag link. No custom drag link (though if I were running heavier duty TREs etc. I would go that way for sure), and no sleeving/cutting and welding a drag link together (I definitely don't want this to fail on or off road). After doing some measuring and figuring I *should* be able to use a LHD J7 rebuildable drag link end at the pitman arm, a J7 drag link tube, and the driver's side TRE from an FJ40. That way the threads, size, and taper should mate the J7 drag link tube to the FJ40 tie rod. More details to follow on that.

I'm also doing F-250 shock towers to allow a longer travel shock absorber, since I need new shocks anyway :p:

Previous Work (besides all the figuring, talking, sketching, and daydreaming about FJ60 power steering ;)
Tools needed
1. Pulley installer/remover kit ($12 at Harbor Freight)
2. Various box end wrenches/ratchet/sockets
3. Vice
4. Torque wrench (up to 90 ft-lbs for the head bolts)
(two sets of hands helps, but not necessary)

(Note: If you're using the JTO pulley (which I would not recommend, there's a better solution), it goes on with the grooved part of the hub facing out; the clamshell of the puller has to be able to attach to it if you ever want to get it off, plus that's the only way it will align properly and not interfere with the fan)

The JTO-style pulley needs to be installed something like this (stolen from Treeroot):
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/Pump2.jpg

I bought a Saginaw pump and pulley from JT Outfitters along with the bracket to mount it to the front two exposed head bolts. I figured I could at least get that figured out and mounted to the truck, to make sure there were no surprises there. Well lo and behold there were some surprises. I put the pulley on backwards and thus could not get it off with the puller (there is a place on the hub for a clamshell to catch and pull the pulley off, but if it's on backwards it won't work). So I had to order a new pulley, cut 90 degrees out of the old one, then chisel it until it slid off. Then install the new pulley and mount it to the head bolts. Mounting it to the truck was pretty easy, once the pulley was on correctly :rolleyes: EDIT: should have just gone with the Volvo pulley in the first place, would have been a lot easier and less $$ shelled out in the long run.

I also spent 4 hours last week cutting/straightening and welding the Ford shock towers (and bs-ing with Ige). I did this because I wanted to keep from cutting the fenders. But they have to be cut anyway for the steering box, and mine are rusty anyway, so I don't know why I'm making a big deal about it. I think there's going to be interference with the steering box as well, so I was probably jumping the gun a bit to do that, but I can always reverse those kinds of things right? :D

Day 1 (or "It's amazing what you can do with an angle grinder and a couple of hours of your time): April 26, 2009 - 8 hours
Tools needed
1. Angle Grinder with cutoff wheel and grinding wheel
2. Various box end wrenches (loving my stubby Gear Wrenches)/ratchet/sockets
3. Various screwdrivers
4. C-clip pliers
5. Small Sledge/mallet
6. TRE puller (finally bought one - NOT a pickle fork but a puller - $25 at NAPA)
7. C clamps to clamp p/s box to frame for mockup
8. Tape measure
(Note: PB Blaster helps in the rusty bolt arena of getting stuff off - I broke two today)

1. I removed the doors and hard top just 'cause.
2. I removed the shocks. I don't know how old they are, they could be OEM, at any rate they don't work all that great. Since it's just past 4 years I've owned this truck I figure I'd better replace them :o
3. I removed the Center Arm and detached it from the steering stabilizer, drag link and relay rod. If anybody needs a good Center Arm let me know, I rebuilt it a couple years ago and it's in pretty good shape. I actually think I have a couple of these now.
4. I removed the apron and fender to give myself some workspace and put my truck up on blocks so I could take the tire off.
5. I removed the driver side shock tower. At first I tried to be nice, I thought I could buzz the rivets down then punch them into the frame and pull off the shock tower. Not so today, those rivets are VERY TIGHT in the frame. So I switched to the cutoff wheel and cut the corners off then beat it off with a small sledge. That was fun :D (at this point I'm committed to a new shock tower arrangement)
6. I removed the steering column and rag joint. It took me a while to figure out that there was a c-clip holding the lock cylinder on the shaft, once I found it it was only a couple minutes to slide that off and slide the inner steering column through the firewall.
7. I removed the steering box. First I scraped off the gunk and unbolted the box from the pedestal then I cut the pedestal (see I can learn too! :thumb:) then beat it off too. (At this point I'm committed to new steering)
8. Once I had the frame cleared, I mocked up the FJ60 steering box with a couple clamps to get it in the approximate position. I then took some measurements to the tie rod to see if my J7 solution to the drag link will work. I think it will, so I will order the couple parts I lack on that end and get that mocked up in a couple weeks.
9. I mocked up the Sanden OBA pump that Neil Quigley let me borrow. I'm going to have to convince him to sell it to me :D I think it will be a good use of space and will give me the functionality I want. I can run it off the p/s pump belt, and there should be sufficient wrap for both to work well.
10. I mocked up the intermediate shafts, just trying to see what's going to have to happen. I need to recombine some u-joints and then I should be able to set where the steering box will sit on the frame. I'm hoping there will be enough room to fit the F-250 shock tower behind it without interfering with the fender support. If I get really lucky I won't have to relocate the shock tab on the axle.
11. Started making a list of all the things I'm going to have to figure out before I'm through with all this :D

Removing the top for the summer - ready to go under the knife!
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0055.jpg

Getting some of the stuff out of the way
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0059.jpg

Shock Tower's gone!
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0061.jpg

Steering column swapped out!
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0068.jpg

Steering box is gone!
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0069.jpg

FJ60 box is clamped to keep me psyched and give me an idea of some dimensions
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0062.jpg

On-Board Air pump looking for a new home!
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0073.jpg

Giving an idea of what the intermediate shaft is going to look like
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0074.jpg

My next trip home I will have to disassemble/recombine some of the steering shafts I have so that I can have a good u-joint connection at the firewall and the steering box. The FJ60 steering shaft is collapsible, so that sleeve will act like a slip joint and allow the body and the frame to flex separately without binding the steering up.

Right now my plan is to mount the steering box flat on the frame (this is key to getting the J7 drag link to work because of the distances involved), sleeve the frame, and bolt through the frame when I mount the box. If the intermediate shaft pushes the steering box too much further forward, it will interfere with the radiator support and I will have to space the box out toward the tire about 1/4" or so to clear the radiator support. After some of my measurements today, this might have to happen anyway for the J7 drag link to work, so maybe it will all work out ok. I will find out soon whether the box will interfere with the radiator support.

After that there's not much I can do until I get my drag link parts. That will determine if/how much I need to space the box off the frame (if it isn't already needed because of the radiator support), and then I can start laying out my bolt hole pattern on the frame and make sure to locate the box so the pitman arm clears the frame but doesn't interfere with the springs when they are flexed either. I will also be able to finalize my shock tower location/orientation (whether they will be straight or bent, or spaced out from the frame as well).

Punch List:
1. I need to get the FJ55 column keyswitch removed by a locksmith (I don't have a key so I can't do it the kosher way and I don't want to destroy it) so I can use my current keyswitch.
2. I have to get some pipe for sleeving my frame and sharpen a bunch of our drill bits so they are ready for use.
3. I have to get some plates (at least one, maybe two 1/4" plate) cut and drilled to the bolt pattern of my steering box.
4. I have to get a plate made in place of the EGR pipe that connects to the exhaust manifold.
5. Once I figure out the shock tower locations, do some measuring (might have to wait until steering is done I guess) and figure out what shocks I need to get (thinking Bilstein).
6. Figure out what I'm going to do about a return line cooler (I decided I'm going to buy a tubing bender for $15 and try to rebend the tubing to fit where I want it to go, in front of the radiator behind the grille).
7. There's a plate on my frame, welded in front of my steering stabilizer. It isn't really doing all that much good (maybe a little bit), but it's mostly in the way, so I'm going to have to cut that off too.

The goal is that on May 15th I will be ready to take it to a welder and have him do the welding and fabbing that needs to be done to make this happen.

Uncle Ben
04-26-2009, 11:08 PM
Outstanding! You are going to love yourself! :eek:;)

MDH33
04-26-2009, 11:15 PM
Great job Matt! Your attention to detail will pay off, I'm sure. :thumb:

Although, as I drove over Vail pass last week with my Armstrong steering and bias tires, I couldn't help but reflect on the plight of those who could not truly enjoy the road. Riddled with 18 wheeler tire chain ruts and pot holes that do an excellent job of making the drive a "hand's-on-interactive-experience", those with power steering are missing out on half the fun of the journey. ;) :zilla:

Hulk
04-26-2009, 11:59 PM
Power steering was one of those mods that was actually better than I expected. You'll be thrilled. Good work so far!

corsair23
04-27-2009, 12:10 AM
Excellent start Matt :thumb:

Looking forward to following along with the change!

subzali
04-27-2009, 06:01 AM
Great job Matt! Your attention to detail will pay off, I'm sure. :thumb:

Although, as I drove over Vail pass last week with my Armstrong steering and bias tires, I couldn't help but reflect on the plight of those who could not truly enjoy the road. Riddled with 18 wheeler tire chain ruts and pot holes that do an excellent job of making the drive a "hand's-on-interactive-experience", those with power steering are missing out on half the fun of the journey. ;) :zilla:

Yeah, I've already had the "hands-on driving experience" of driving home with a broken thumb from the trail. And then the next summer I tweaked my hand pretty good again on Spring Creek. That's enough for me. Plus I let Jacki drive a little bit on Argentine and some of those trails and don't want her to get hurt from the manual steering.

RicardoJM
04-27-2009, 06:54 AM
Wow Matt, great progress for the time you have into it. Power steering and on board air, you are really going to enjoy both of these improvements. I like the picutres and the details of your work and the challenges encoutered and overcome. Keep up the good work.

Boulder Cruiser
04-27-2009, 07:44 AM
Nice, its Looking good. I just got done with mine and its night and day. Keep up the good work!

Shark Bait
04-27-2009, 09:08 AM
So, you going to get a plate made for the frame? :D

subzali
04-27-2009, 11:46 AM
I will need at least one 1/4" plate, yes. Not sure about any others, it will depend on the spacing from my drag link setup.

subzali
04-27-2009, 10:47 PM
I updated my original post with some new information/details that I thought of and added this section

Day 2 (or "the steering shaft on my Land Cruiser is as big as the drive shaft on your Corolla"): April 27, 2009 - 1 1/2 hours
Tools needed
1. Various box end wrenches (loving my stubby Gear Wrenches)/ratchet/sockets

(Note: the u-joints are pressed in the intermediate shaft, and with two simple measurements (diameter and cross length) any parts store should be able to match the u-joint and it should cost around $25. Some say it's a matching u-joint to a mid-70s (1.2L) Corolla driveshaft. EDIT: got it today. It's manufactured by GMB (a Japanese company), distributed by Precision Universal Joint (a Federal Mogul Company), and I got it at NAPA. NAPA Part Number 395. Federal Mogul Number FM68-401225. By the way my parts guys at the dealership know what years and engine designation the 1.2L Corolla engine was - that's how good they are ;))

Tonight's attempt was to get the intermediate shaft mocked up so I could locate the steering box fore/aft on the frame and make sure my shock towers would be okay (fore/aft) and not interfere with the fender supports.

1. First you have to remove the u-joint ends on the FJ55 intermediate shaft, using simple tools.
2. Next make sure you have your new u-joint from the parts store and use the u-bolts to clamp the u-joint ends together around the u-joint and you're on your way! Spline to spline connections with a u-joint in the middle!

FJ55 intermediate shaft/slip joint, from which the u-joint ends will be stolen
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0075.jpg

u-joint ends taken apart
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0076.jpg

u-joint reassembled with new u-joint from Corolla ;)
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0091.jpg

So now I am done until next week when I get my drag link parts in and get my u-joint for the intermediate shaft. I waited on ordering the drag link parts until I got some closer measurements - it's kinda expensive to do it this way but I wanted to try it and see if it will work.

Punch List:
1. I need to start a list of mounting hardware I will need to get (I want to stay JIS metric for as much of this as possible) - box mounting bolts, exhaust clamp bolt, intermediate shaft bolts, etc.
2. I need to get my u-joint for the intermediate shaft to mock up my box fore/aft. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have this in hand
3. I am waiting on my drag link parts (FJ40 TRE and BJ70 drag link end) to mock up my box side-to-side. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have the TRE in hand. Still waiting on BJ70 drag link end - those Canadians are slow eh?
4. I need to get the FJ55 column keyswitch removed by a locksmith (I don't have a key so I can't do it the kosher way and I don't want to destroy it) so I can use my current keyswitch.
5. I need to mock up my shock towers and see what modifications will need to be made.
6. I have to get some plates (at least one, maybe two 1/4" plate) cut and drilled to the bolt pattern of my steering box.
7. I have to get some pipe for sleeving my frame, cut to length.
8. I have to sharpen a bunch of drill bits so they are ready for use.
9. I have to get the frame drilled to the bolt pattern and bored and chamfered so the sleeves are ready to weld in.
10. I have to remove anything that will be in the way of the welder.
11. (Welding day)
a. A plate will need to be made to fill in the flex hole in the frame, ground flush.
b. The mounting holes will need to be extended through this new plate.
c. The sleeves will have to be welded in place.
d. The reinforcing plate(s) will have to be welded in place.
e. I have to get a plate made in place of the EGR pipe that connects to the exhaust manifold.
f. I need a change made to the back end of my exhaust - tab with bolted connection.
g. I need my windshield frame support brackets (where the knobs screw in) to be rewelded in place so I can drive around with the the top (including bikini top) off.
12. There's a plate on my frame, welded in front of my steering stabilizer. It isn't really doing all that much good (maybe a little bit), but it's mostly in the way, so I'm going to have to cut that off.
13. The drag link, steering column, and intermediate shafts will have to be bolted up.
14. The shock towers will have been located and mounting holes drilled, but I will need to do some measuring and figure out what shocks I need to get (thinking Bilstein). Also figure out what steering stabilizer is needed.
15. Trim fender(s) to accept steering box and shock towers.
16. Make sure high pressure hose works properly. If not figure out what needs to be done to make it work (research thread pitches if necessary, rebend hard sections to position loop in hose where I want it to be).
17. Figure out what I'm going to do about a return line cooler (I decided I'm going to buy a tubing bender for $15 and try to rebend the tubing to fit where I want it to go, in front of the radiator behind the grille).
18. Get my steering all centered, get everything buttoned up, flush power steering system and go for a drive!

frontrange
04-28-2009, 07:07 PM
I just finished doing an 80 box in mine, pretty much the same box as the 60 but newer. You may not be real happy with an 55 column. I decided against it after someone doing this said he hated it, I'm not sure why.

The column parts are all low carbon cast steel, so they are weldable without special treatment. I just TIG welded a U joint on to where the base plate had been after turning the parts in the lathe for a running fit. Same with the TRE and relay rod, used the left half off a FJ60 and turned the end to fit in the right half of a 40 relay rod and TIG'd that.

It all came together better than I'd hoped, no real grief. Let me know if you need any dimensions or pics.

subzali
04-29-2009, 09:08 PM
Day 3 (or "If I was a redneck I could be driving this baby tonight!"): April 29, 2009 - 2 hours
Tools needed
1. Various box end wrenches (loving my stubby Gear Wrenches)/ratchet/sockets
2. Bench grinder
3. Vice grips/pipe wrench

(Note: The steering shaft u-joint will need to be clearanced in order to work properly. It doesn't need much, the angle is very low.

Tonight I assembled my u-joint and did a test fit of my intermediate shaft to find my steering box's fore/aft location. I also got one step closer with my drag link, by installing the FJ40 tie rod end in the new drag link. It worked like a charm and exactly as I was hoping for.

1. If you like you can fit up the new u-joint, but you will quickly find that the two halves interfere with each other, so you will have to disassemble it.
2. Mark the corners and take them to a bench grinder, test fitting the halves a couple times to see how much you have to take off to get them to rotate.
3. Now you can assemble the u-joint and then bolt it on to the intermediate shaft.
4. Since the new steering column is in place, bolted to the firewall, you can plug the intermediate shaft into it, then move the steering box to attach to it on the other end and boom! You have the fore/aft location of your steering box. I found that there will be plenty of room for the F-250 shock towers in front of the fender support, and in fact they should line up perfectly with the stock mount on the axle. The u-joint hangs over the edge of the frame, though, so it looks like at the very least the shock tower will have to be left in its stock bent location and fender trimming will have to be done. I will have to wait and see if any more spacing will be needed once I finalize the side-to-side location of the steering box.
5. Take the FJ40 tie rod end and thread it into the 70 series drag link. I was surprised at how many threads there were on the TRE; I didn't remember that many but that's a good thing; it means there is lots of room to play.

Here's an excerpt from some posts in TJ's thread:
Here's my definitions for rods:
Relay Rod - on stock 40s only, from pitman arm forward to center arm
Drag Link - from 70/60 pitman arm to tie rod or from FJ40 center arm to tie rod
Tie Rod - Rod that connects steering arms of two wheels together

For clarification, here is what I think I know about steering rods (with a little input from Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters on page 4):
FJ25/early 40 tie rod ends (the tie rod is 17mm I believe but it tapers down at the ends) - 14mm (I'm guessing)

mid 40 drag link and relay rod - 17mm
mid 40 tie rod - 21mm

late 40/60/70 drag link - 21mm
late 40/60/70 tie rod - 23mm

This is why the mid 40 tie rod end will thread on the 60/70 drag link.

And guess what? The stud taper on the FJ40 tie rod end fits exactly the taper in the hole on the tie rod where it threads into. ;)

6. I measured up the distance from the end of the drag link tube and if the BJ70 drag link end (that connects to the steering box) is between 4 1/2" and 5 1/2" long it will be just the right length. And you know what? I measured Wes' at 4 3/4". How lucky can you get?

At this point I could have pulled the FJ60 drag link end and threaded it into my new tube and connected it to the pitman arm. I could have taken my high pressure hose and threaded it into the power steering pump and into the box, hooked up the low pressure line, put the steering wheel on and taken the truck for a joy ride (with the steering box clamped to the frame with c-clamps)! Aren't you glad I'm not THAT redneck!? :eek: :D

Okay, for some pics:

Precision u-joint box
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0079.jpg

Precision Part number
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0080.jpg

u-joint in GMB bag
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0081.jpg

showing u-joint interference
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0090.jpg

ground down corners
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0091.jpg

intermediate shaft hooked up
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0092.jpg

checking out about where the steering box will be located. Notice the low angle of the intermediate shaft. The four bolts on the far right are the mounting bolts for the fender support. There should be plenty of room to mount the shock tower between the fender support and the steering box, and maybe even align it with the shock mount on the axle.
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0093.jpg

Showing the amount of threads available on the FJ40 tie rod end
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0082.jpg

Plugged the drag link into the tie rod. Looking good!
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0083.jpg

Measuring from the end of the drag link to the pitman arm. I think it's going to work!
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0084.jpg

trying to show the drag link angle - it's pretty close to parallel with the tie rod
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0094.jpg

So now I am done until next week when I get my BJ70 drag link end in. The FJ60 steering box will hit the radiator support if it's mounted directly to the frame, so I will have to have a spacer plate made (about 1/4" or so I think). This will require the drag link to be slightly longer than I was measuring above, but will actually end up being pretty perfect I think. Now that I have the steering box kinda sorta located fore/aft, I'm going to take the steering column in to a locksmith and have them match the lock cylinder to my key set.

Punch List:
1. I need to start a list of mounting hardware I will need to get (I want to stay JIS metric for as much of this as possible) - box mounting bolts, exhaust clamp bolt, intermediate shaft bolts, etc.
2. I need to get my u-joint for the intermediate shaft to mock up my box fore/aft. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have this in hand
3. I am waiting on my drag link parts (FJ40 TRE and BJ70 drag link end) to mock up my box side-to-side. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have the TRE in hand. Still waiting on BJ70 drag link end - those Canadians are slow eh? EDIT: As of 4/30/09 4Wheel Auto in Canadia received the 70 series drag link ends they ordered. But they now come with the drag link tube attached, and the retail price has increased from about $100 CA for just the end to more than $225 CA for the end plus the tube :banghead:. It's cheaper to order the rebuild kit with all 4 ends than it is to order just this one...going to wait and see if they come up with any solutions...Specter's kit is $179. EDIT AGAIN: Don was able to find a 70 series drag link end for a "reasonable" price and it should be here this week.
4. I need to get the FJ55 column keyswitch removed by a locksmith (I don't have a key so I can't do it the kosher way and I don't want to destroy it) so I can use my current keyswitch. EDIT: As of 4/30/09 I went to a locksmith down the road from work and had them rekey my ignition switch to match to match my current keyset. We'll see if that stops the run-on problem I've had as well since I've owned this truck.
5. I need to mock up my shock towers and see what modifications will need to be made. EDIT: As of 4/29/09 I know I will need to bend the shock towers back to their original location. Maybe I can get rid of these to somebody who wants straight F-250 shock towers and I can go buy me some new bent shock towers? Any takers?
6. I have to get some plates (at least one, maybe two 1/4" plate) cut and drilled to the bolt pattern of my steering box.
7. I have to get some pipe for sleeving my frame, cut to length.
8. I have to sharpen a bunch of drill bits so they are ready for use.
9. I have to get the frame drilled to the bolt pattern and bored and chamfered so the sleeves are ready to weld in.
10. I have to remove anything that will be in the way of the welder.
11. (Welding day)
a. A plate will need to be made to fill in the flex hole in the frame, ground flush.
b. The mounting holes will need to be extended through this new plate.
c. The sleeves will have to be welded in place.
d. The reinforcing plate(s) will have to be welded in place.
e. I have to get a plate made in place of the EGR pipe that connects to the exhaust manifold.
f. I need a change made to the back end of my exhaust - tab with bolted connection.
g. I need my windshield frame support brackets (where the knobs screw in) to be rewelded in place so I can drive around with the the top (including bikini top) off.
h. I need to have a spacer plate welded to my shock tower (maybe?)
12. There's a plate on my frame, welded in front of my steering stabilizer. It isn't really doing all that much good (maybe a little bit), but it's mostly in the way, so I'm going to have to cut that off.
13. The drag link, steering column, and intermediate shafts will have to be bolted up.
14. The shock towers will have been located and mounting holes drilled, but I will need to do some measuring and figure out what shocks I need to get (thinking Bilstein). Also figure out what steering stabilizer is needed.
15. Trim fender(s) to accept steering box and shock towers.
16. Make sure high pressure hose works properly. If not figure out what needs to be done to make it work (research thread pitches if necessary, rebend hard sections to position loop in hose where I want it to be).
17. Figure out what I'm going to do about a return line cooler (I decided I'm going to buy a tubing bender for $15 and try to rebend the tubing to fit where I want it to go, in front of the radiator behind the grille).
18. Get my steering all centered, get everything buttoned up, flush power steering system and go for a drive!

PabloCruise
05-01-2009, 01:33 PM
Matt,

This is an outstanding thread!!!

That is disappointing news about your drag link end!

I have a few questions:
- Are you certain that the 70 series drag link end and the 40 series DS TRE are opposing threads (so that you can thread them into both ends of tube)?

- Why not go w/ 70 series ends at both ends of the relay tube?

- what is the rule of thumb about how much thread depth you should have on a TRE in tie rod/relay rod/draglink? Is it 2.5x thread diameter or something like that?

subzali
05-04-2009, 12:23 PM
[break for Cruise Moab...]


[/break for Cruise Moab] :D

Matt,

This is an outstanding thread!!!

That is disappointing news about your drag link end!

I have a few questions:
- Are you certain that the 70 series drag link end and the 40 series DS TRE are opposing threads (so that you can thread them into both ends of tube)?

No I'm not certain yet, but I got a feeling ;) (especially since lowenbrau on MUD said it would work)

- Why not go w/ 70 series ends at both ends of the relay tube?

I think the 70 series end on the other side is longer than the 40 end, plus the taper on the stud (to connect to the 40 series tie rod) is wrong.

- what is the rule of thumb about how much thread depth you should have on a TRE in tie rod/relay rod/draglink? Is it 2.5x thread diameter or something like that?

I don't know, whatever looks right I guess. I guess I would like to have more than what is shown in the picture above, but we'll have to see where it comes out when it's all together.

Mendocino
05-04-2009, 12:43 PM
Matt,

Why don't you just have Front Range Off-Road Fabrication (http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=116&osCsid=887b37658510523360763c96f8dd3344) make a drag link to your specs? I had them make one for me and it was much cheaper than ordering one from any of the usual suspects and burlier too.:D

subzali
05-04-2009, 12:59 PM
I'm trying to see if this can be done with all Toyota pieces/parts (even though I'm using a Saginaw pump/bracket I know some people can use an FJ60 pump because their blocks will accept the bracket). But yes the more cost-effective way would be to have a custom one made, if I weren't on a mission to make this work then that's what I would have done. But thank you for the link because someone else who reads this thread in the future will probably want to go that route and they'll know who to go to.

subzali
05-05-2009, 10:57 PM
Day 4 (or "Cruise Moab "El Guapo" was great but now it's back to work - gotta keep momentum"): May 5, 2009 - 2 hours
Tools needed
1. Various box end wrenches (loving my stubby Gear Wrenches)/ratchet/sockets
2. Punch/Hammer
3. Vice grips

Tonight I installed my newly rekeyed FJ55 column assembly, installed my newly acquired sun visors (finally!), and made my intermediate shaft collapsible. I am still waiting on my drag link end (should be here any day, they already charged my card which tells me it shipped), so I am working on some other things; the big ones are getting my mounting bolts lined out so I know what kind of drilling is going to need to be done, and get my reinforcement plates drilled to the box bolt pattern. I also have to get the pipe I am going to use for the sleeves.

1. First I installed my sun visors, just to get that out of the way :D.
2. Next I started to reinstall my steering column. I got to thinking about how it's longer than the stock one, and found out it's exactly 1 1/2" longer. I got to thinking about why that was and got to wondering if there was a way that the outer part of the steering column from the FJ40 could be made to fit on the FJ55 steering shaft. So I took it back out and looked at it closer. They are different designs, the FJ40 uses a bushing at the base of the column, which like TJ's was all worn out and crumbly, probably adding to slop in the system. The FJ55 uses a bearing and the base plate is removable, so if I cut the mounting flange off the FJ40 column and cut it to the proper length I could probably get the FJ55 flange to slide right in and I could shorten the column up a bit; good info for the future in case I don't like how close the wheel is to me. It actually wouldn't be that hard to do.
3. Well figuring that that was out of the scope of this project and I would have to write myself a change order for that job (here's work creeping in to my personal life ;)) I bolted it back in and got it all reassembled. I couldn't find all the screws to fix the plastic clamshell on, but oh well I guess. They're around somewhere ;).
4. Next I took the intermediate shaft and looked at the pins that hold it rigid until it gets impacted. TJ told me they are just plastic, and that they would break the first time the frame flexes away from the body. But I wanted to find out just how much travel in both directions I had so I took out a piece of wood and slammed the shaft down on it, splines first (like popping a birfield bell off your inner axle shaft) and with a bang the two pieces slid into the collapsed position. I took them apart a few times and took some measurements, it's 24 1/4" long in the uncollapsed condition (from end of u-joint to end of splines) and 19" long collapsed. They don't give much room to extend, but I figure the movement there will be very small so I'll just remember that I have 5" or so that the splines could get closer to the steering box before I have problems. That might come in handy some day when I decide to shorten my steering column up a bit.

I also realized that I could move the steering box back an inch or two on the frame because of the collapsible intermediate shaft; of course it will have to clear the shock tower, but it would be nice to have the box far back enough to be able to clear the radiator support and mount the box directly to the frame (given the J7 drag link end allows it, i.e. isn't too long). Am still waiting to see what all will happen with that.
5. I then took some bolts and clamped the u-joints to the column and intermediate shaft splines and fit it up once again. I also disassembled the unnecessary bearing that would be at the base of the FJ60 column if it was installed in a truck, to clean up the shaft a bit.
6. After all that, I took a look at my drag link shafts to try and figure out the answer to TJ's question above. On the FJ60 drag link, the pitman arm "end" is Left Hand Threaded while the tie rod "end" is Right Hand Threaded. I'm assuming it will be the same for the J7 drag link ends, so since the FJ40 TRE I am using on my drag link on the tie rod "end" is Right Hand Threaded, the J7 drag link "end" at the pitman arm should be Left Hand Threaded. So in theory this all should work.
7. Lastly I've been investigating the connections to the steering box itself. There's some threads on MUD that are very confusing. But here's what I think (stolen and modified from Mace/TJ on MUD):

Metric
HIGH Pressure Port - 16 x 1.5 MM Inverted Flare to #6 JIC Male adapter, Toyota - 'PSC Motorsports' #PSC-SF06 or 'Summit Racing' #EAR-9919DFJERL
LOW Pressure Port - 17 x 1.5 MM Inverted Flare to #6 JIC Male adapter, Toyota - 'PSC Motorsports' #PSC-SF07

As I understand it the SMALLER port is the press side, and is the outboard connection.

Or
LEE MFG. CO in Sun Valley CA
818-768-0371
has
16mm x 1.5 inverted flare to #6jic for the PRESS side and
17mm x 1.5 inverted flare to #6jic for the RETURN side for
$8 each

Sag pump
pump side is 5/8 x 18 inverted flare to -6jic, which BTW is close enough that the 16mm x 1.5 will thread in and seal.

JT Outfitters sells a hose, which I have, that has the exact same fitting on both sides. That leads me to believe that the 16mm x 1.5 HAS to be the PRESS side because it matches the the thread on the steering pump. Some also say that I could get a replacement FJ60 high pressure hose and it will do the same. So they have to be the same!

*So can someone with an FJ60 verify for me that the high pressure side is the outboard side of the pump?*

Thanks. I'd like to get the 17mm x 1.5 fitting on order for the low pressure side so I can plumb it up.

Okay, for some pics:

Toasted bushing at base of steering column
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0127.jpg

Steering wheel back in the vehicle
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0139.jpg

Intermediate shaft with stops punched out so it can slide
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0134.jpg

Two halves of the collapsible intermediate shaft
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0135.jpg

Intermediate shaft with bearing taken off
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0136.jpg

Intermediate shaft hooked up
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0137.jpg

Up close picture of the u-joint at the firewall
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0138.jpg

FJ60 Drag Link end for pitman arm side - showing Left Hand Thread
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0131.jpg

FJ60 Drag Link end for tie rod side - showing Right Hand Thread
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0133.jpg

So now I have to wait for my drag link end. Get the reinforcement plates made and the sleeves figured out. Drill out the holes so they're in their proper place and can get made to go through the frame on welding day after the frame is closed in on the back side. I have to get the fitting ordered for the the steering box. I am going to buy a tubing bender to try and tweak the return line cooler that I have so it will work for my truck. I have to remove the plate on the front of my frame that is keeping me from getting at my steering damper to remove it. Then I have to clean up the frame and prep it for welding day.

Punch List:
1. I need to start a list of mounting hardware I will need to get (I want to stay JIS metric for as much of this as possible) - box mounting bolts, exhaust clamp bolt, intermediate shaft bolts, etc.
2. I need to get my u-joint for the intermediate shaft to mock up my box fore/aft. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have this in hand
3. I am waiting on my drag link parts (FJ40 TRE and BJ70 drag link end) to mock up my box side-to-side. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have the TRE in hand. Still waiting on BJ70 drag link end - those Canadians are slow eh? EDIT: As of 4/30/09 4Wheel Auto in Canadia received the 70 series drag link ends they ordered. But they now come with the drag link tube attached, and the retail price has increased from about $100 CA for just the end to more than $225 CA for the end plus the tube :banghead:. It's cheaper to order the rebuild kit with all 4 ends than it is to order just this one...going to wait and see if they come up with any solutions...Specter's kit is $179. EDIT AGAIN: Don was able to find a 70 series drag link end for a "reasonable" price and it should be here this week.
4. I need to get the FJ55 column keyswitch removed by a locksmith (I don't have a key so I can't do it the kosher way and I don't want to destroy it) so I can use my current keyswitch. EDIT: As of 4/30/09 I went to a locksmith down the road from work and had them rekey my ignition switch to match to match my current keyset. We'll see if that stops the run-on problem I've had as well since I've owned this truck.
5. I need to mock up my shock towers and see what modifications will need to be made. EDIT: As of 4/29/09 I know I will need to bend the shock towers back to their original location. Maybe I can get rid of these to somebody who wants straight F-250 shock towers and I can go buy me some new bent shock towers? Any takers?
6. I have to get some plates (NOW!)(at least one, maybe two 1/4" plate) cut and drilled to the bolt pattern of my steering box.
7. I have to get some pipe (NOW!)for sleeving my frame, cut to length.
7a. I have to cut off the plate that's in the way of the steering stabilizer (some PO did it :confused:)
7b. I have to figure out what kind of bracketry will be needed for the Sanden air pump
7c. I have to get a low pressure return fitting for my steering box
8. I have to sharpen a bunch of drill bits so they are ready for use.
9. I have to get the frame drilled to the bolt pattern and bored and chamfered so the sleeves are ready to weld in.
10. I have to remove anything that will be in the way of the welder.
11. (Welding day)
a. A plate will need to be made to fill in the flex hole in the frame, ground flush.
b. The mounting holes will need to be extended through this new plate.
c. The sleeves will have to be welded in place.
d. The reinforcing plate(s) will have to be welded in place.
e. I have to get a plate made in place of the EGR pipe that connects to the exhaust manifold.
f. I need a change made to the back end of my exhaust - tab with bolted connection.
g. I need my windshield frame support brackets (where the knobs screw in) to be rewelded in place so I can drive around with the the top (including bikini top) off.
h. I need to have a spacer plate welded to my shock tower (maybe?)
12. There's a plate on my frame, welded in front of my steering stabilizer. It isn't really doing all that much good (maybe a little bit), but it's mostly in the way, so I'm going to have to cut that off. (See 7a)
13. The drag link, steering column, and intermediate shafts will have to be bolted up.
14. The shock towers will have been located and mounting holes drilled, but I will need to do some measuring and figure out what shocks I need to get (thinking Bilstein). Also figure out what steering stabilizer is needed.
15. Trim fender(s) to accept steering box and shock towers.
16. Make sure high pressure hose works properly. If not figure out what needs to be done to make it work (research thread pitches if necessary, rebend hard sections to position loop in hose where I want it to be). It should work as long as the fender doesn't get in the way
17. Figure out what I'm going to do about a return line cooler (I decided I'm going to buy a tubing bender for $15 and try to rebend the tubing to fit where I want it to go, in front of the radiator behind the grille).
18. Get my steering all centered, get everything buttoned up, flush power steering system and go for a drive!

maxsdad
05-06-2009, 07:34 AM
Hey Matt - Max may be interested in the shock towers if they're still available....I'll ask him tonight.


Great job on detailing your steps! Max is about to begin a similar conversion and I'm sure he'll really appreciate all this great data.

Rob

farnhamstj
05-06-2009, 09:44 AM
nice work. keep it up

PabloCruise
05-06-2009, 10:43 AM
Great stuff Matt!

Thanks for the pics on the threads...

I can't wait until you get the drag link/relay rod in!!

subzali
05-06-2009, 11:09 AM
Hey Matt - Max may be interested in the shock towers if they're still available....I'll ask him tonight.


Great job on detailing your steps! Max is about to begin a similar conversion and I'm sure he'll really appreciate all this great data.

Rob

You guys can have them. I'll clean them up a bit.

PabloCruise
05-06-2009, 12:49 PM
MAtt, just saw your PM's...

Hope this helps:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62908&stc=1&d=1142750944

High pressure side is outboard and forward

Also shows factory return line fitting

74fj40
05-06-2009, 07:08 PM
You guys can have them. I'll clean them up a bit.

Hey Matt, I'll take em!

When would it work for me to come pick em up?

subzali
05-08-2009, 07:08 AM
Max, I will clean them up hopefully this weekend so I can get them to you first thing next week.

Look what came in the mail yesterday...it's pretty ;)

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0140.jpg

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0141.jpg

And it does have left-hand threads. From the stud to the beginning of the threads it's 4 3/4" and from the stud to the end of the threads is 7 1/2", so there are 2 3/4" of threads. It looks like I'll be threading both ends in almost all the way and maybe even still need a small spacer plate to move the steering box out away from the frame just a bit.

EDIT: measured again and put up actual lengths...

PabloCruise
05-08-2009, 09:05 PM
Sweet!

Glad it arrived!!!

subzali
05-10-2009, 10:06 PM
Day 5 (or "Since I am a redneck I drove this thing around today" :hill:): May 10, 2009 - 9 hours
Tools needed
1. Various box end wrenches (loving my stubby Gear Wrenches)/ratchet/sockets
2. Center Punch/Hammer
3. Pipe wrench
4. Grease
5. Drill Press/Drill bits
6. Portable electric drill (happens to be 1/2" drive with a big motor)
7. Scribing tool
8. 6" dial caliper
9. machinist scale (metric would have been nice)
10. straightedge
11. square
12. angle grinder (probably the most useful metal working tool ever invented)

Today I got a lot done (I would hope so with 9 hours to work with), trying to stay on schedule with getting my welding done this coming Friday. It doesn't sound like much, but it's a lot of work. I got my drag link assembled and mounted (very relieved to find that it's going to work just fine) and got the holes drilled in my frame to mount my steering box.

1. First I threaded my FJ40 tie rod end deeper into the drag link tube, since I knew it would have to be in almost all the way from some of my previous measuring. A pipe wrench and putting the stud into the tapered hole on the tie rod made this part very easy. Note: the tie rod is a little thicker than the steering arm that that the TRE is designed to fit into, so the stud is a *little* on the short side, but a small modification to the castle nut and all is good.
2. Next was the moment of truth: I threaded the J7* drag link end into the drag link tube. I used some grease to make it easier and threaded it in quite a ways, again knowing that I would have to to make it work. I got each side so they had about the same amount of threads showing. I then held it up to the pitman arm and plugged it in. Perfecto. I put the driver side tire on to get a better idea of whether everything was straight and perfect! I had to actually lengthen the drag link a little bit to get the tires straight when the pitman arm is straight, and even with a little plate spacer for the steering box it will put the amount of threads showing at a very comfortable amount.
3. Having gotten that out of the way I was now ready to get the drill pattern for the steering box transferred to the frame. But first I wanted to go for a drive ;) Seriously, I wanted to make sure my spring wouldn't hit the drag link (as Mark Whatley notes the FJ60 pitman arm has a pretty good drop in it) when the spring is flexed upward. So I hooked a couple things up, made sure the clamps holding the steering box on were tight and started the truck up and drove out of the barn to the hillside so I could tweak it out. I backed up the bank and let the weight of the truck sit on the front driver corner. I had it on the bumpstops and I still had 1/2" or a little more of clearance between the spring and the drag link, so I should be good. (note: that was just with the steering box clamped to the frame, so it turns out the pitman arm will be higher when it's actually installed than I had it here - the way I'm mounting it leveled out the steering box quite a bit.)
4. So I took it back in the barn and copied the bolt pattern onto a piece of paper. Took the dial caliper to measure the distances and took readings that correspond really closely to nice even metric measurements (110mm, 50mm, 5mm), so I was pretty sure they were close.
5. I then took some of the 3/16" flat stock I got from John and copied the hole pattern onto it. Took it to the drill press and drilled the pattern. I was able to duplicate the hole pattern pretty closely so I felt confident I could use that to drill the holes in my frame. The FJ60 box is mounted with an M12 bolt, which is about 0.466" in diameter. A 12mm drill bit is 0.472", and that's what I'm going to drill the sleeves out to for a snug fit. I'm going to use 1/2" Sch. 160 pipe for the sleeves. EDIT: I went with 3/8" Sch. 80 pipe for the sleeves in the end. See post #33. The OD of 1/2" pipe is 0.840", and the ID of Sch. 160 is 0.464", so I can drill it out just a tad to get the bolts to slide through. If the alignment is off I can take it up to 1/2", if something warps or something. 1/2" Sch. 80 pipe has an ID of 0.546" (same OD), which will probably have too much slop for what I want to do. Edit: The OD of 3/8" pipe is 0.675", and the ID of Sch. 80 is 0.423", so I can drill it out just a tad to 12mm (0.472") to get the bolts to slide through. If the alignment is off I can take the ID up to 1/2", if something warps or something. For now I drilled 1/2" holes in the frame, because I'm going to have to eventually go up to 27/32" (0.84375") or so to have a clear hole for the sleeves through the frame and reinforcement plates.
6. So since I've had the steering box mocked up for a few days and drove with it today and it worked well I decided to keep it in that spot. So I marked it and went to work. My intermediate shaft will have plenty of room to slide in and out, and it won't interfere with getting my shock tower mounted (too much). The frame slopes down right here, so trying to bolt through the frame because tricky because you have to stay inside the ID of the frame box. Luckily the FJ60 bolt pattern isn't too long to accomplish this while keeping the box level. I located my upper left bolt hole as close the ID of the frame as I could (keeping room for the sleeve as well), marked it, and drilled it. Something to note: the frame is double thick on top and bottom because it's actually two c-channels connected together, and the c-channels overlap on top and bottom.
7. Once I got the upper left bolt hole located I drew an arc for my lower right bolt hole, and found the point on the arc that's as close to the ID of the frame as I could get and marked and drilled it too. I found that the box was now sitting level and the pitman arm swings very close to the bottom of the frame. Perfect, further from the spring the better, without interfering with the frame. I did make a small mistake though, which I hope will get rectified, which is that there's a boss on the steering box that is hitting the frame, keeping the box from sitting flush against the frame. There are two solutions: my lower right bolt hole should have been a little bit higher, tilting the box down slightly, or if I space the box out from the frame it should clear. I have to space the box out away from the frame anyway because of the radiator support, so that's how I'm going to solve that issue.
8. I then finished off the other two bolt holes, which have all kinds of room away from the ID of the frame.
9. While I was doing all this I was thinking about how to sequence the welding event to maximize efficient use of time. I need to purchase some drill bits and I think I have a good sequence figured out, just gotta clear out some of the parts that are in the way and figure out a way to get the truck to the welder!

I'm already thinking of things I would do differently if I were to do this again (thinking, wow, I'm putting a lot of work into this. Hopefully nothing happens to this truck but if it did...).
1. I would NOT do the drag link the way I did it now. I would have a custom one made (single center tube, not sleeved and welded or cut and welded).
2. I also would NOT do the intermediate shaft the way I did it. Since I know where the box is going to be mounted I would have a custom one made, with smaller u-joints and a dedicated slip joint.
3. I would (still might) shorten the steering column inside the cab (hopefully I would have a little more developed fab skills by then so I could do such a thing).

Okay, for some pics:

FJ40 TRE threaded in almost all the way (it ended up getting back out a little bit before all was said and done today)
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0142.jpg

J7 end threaded in and hooked up
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0143.jpg

Front view of steering box with J7 end hooked up
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0144.jpg

Side view of drag link all hooked up (notice plate in front of steering damper - that's in the way and is going to have to come off sometime soon. It's welded on there pretty good - I'm going to have to get several cutoff wheels to get it off.
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0146.jpg

Showing that they are close to parallel
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0147.jpg

Mocking up my unstraightened shock tower ($17 apiece at dealership, in stock)
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0148.jpg

Showing how close the shock tower is to the steering u-joint. With the box spaced out it's going to be worse; I'm going to have to add a spacer to the shock tower to get it away from the u-joint.
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0149.jpg

Showing how close the radiator support is to the steering box. It needs to go a touch more, a 1/4" plate should do it.
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0150.jpg

Yep, found some interference!
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0151.jpg

If you look down between the brake hose and the c-clamp you can see the lower shock mount. It's probably going to have to move a smidge.
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0152.jpg

Driving redneck style! (actually checking for system interference)
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0154.jpg

All the weight's on the driver's side and I didn't break a birf! ;)
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0155.jpg

Here's the setup:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0156.jpg

Here's how close it is/was with the suspension on the bumpstop: remember the pitman arm got raised during the course of the day so it's no longer THIS close...
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0157.jpg

See it's on the bumpstop :D
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0158.jpg

Oops found some interference! :eek:
good thing those aren't going to be on the final product...
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0159.jpg

And this is what I like about FJ60 steering over minitruck/OEM steering: wheel turns right, pitman arm turns right (my (now) old steering had a boot that was always torn up from steering right and rubbing it):
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0160.jpg

Wheel turns left, pitman arm turns left:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0161.jpg

Here's the interference I was talking about where I should have made the lower right bolt hole a little higher. Putting the 1/4" spacer plate in there should solve this little issue though...
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0162.jpg

See how the upper left and lower right bolt holes are the restrictions on what angle the box can be at? Raising the lower right bolt would have tilted the box forward and prevented the above interference from happening.
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0163.jpg

My pitman arm swings close to the frame but it misses :) It stays well clear of the spring.
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0164.jpg

So now I have to prep my truck for welding day. I am going to remove the radiator, shroud, bib and hood. That way the welder can get to the back side of the frame to fill in some of the flex holes. I'm going to have him weld those two plates in, as well as a blank 1/4" reinforcing plate. Then I'm going to go all the way through the frame with the 1/2" holes I have started on the front side. Then I'm going to step all four holes up to the 27/32" size so the sleeves can slide in. Once I get the sleeves in I'm going to put the 1/4" spacer plate on the front side, bolt the box on to make sure everything aligns properly, and have him tack the plate in place. Then take off the box, tack the sleeves in place, then burn it all in.

Punch List:
1. I need to start a list of mounting hardware I will need to get (I want to stay JIS metric for as much of this as possible) - box mounting bolts, exhaust clamp bolt, intermediate shaft bolts, etc.
2. I need to get my u-joint for the intermediate shaft to mock up my box fore/aft. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have this in hand
3. I am waiting on my drag link parts (FJ40 TRE and BJ70 drag link end) to mock up my box side-to-side. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have the TRE in hand. Still waiting on BJ70 drag link end - those Canadians are slow eh? EDIT: As of 4/30/09 4Wheel Auto in Canadia received the 70 series drag link ends they ordered. But they now come with the drag link tube attached, and the retail price has increased from about $100 CA for just the end to more than $225 CA for the end plus the tube :banghead:. It's cheaper to order the rebuild kit with all 4 ends than it is to order just this one...going to wait and see if they come up with any solutions...Specter's kit is $179. EDIT AGAIN: Don was able to find a 70 series drag link end for a "reasonable" price and it should be here this week.
4. I need to get the FJ55 column keyswitch removed by a locksmith (I don't have a key so I can't do it the kosher way and I don't want to destroy it) so I can use my current keyswitch. EDIT: As of 4/30/09 I went to a locksmith down the road from work and had them rekey my ignition switch to match to match my current keyset. We'll see if that stops the run-on problem I've had as well since I've owned this truck.
5. I need to mock up my shock towers and see what modifications will need to be made. EDIT: As of 4/29/09 I know I will need to bend the shock towers back to their original location. Maybe I can get rid of these to somebody who wants straight F-250 shock towers and I can go buy me some new bent shock towers? Any takers?
6. I have to get some plates (NOW!)(at least one, maybe two 1/4" plate) cut and drilled to the bolt pattern of my steering box.
7. I have to get some pipe (NOW!)for sleeving my frame, cut to length.
7a. I have to cut off the plate that's in the way of the steering stabilizer (some PO did it :confused:)
7b. I have to figure out what kind of bracketry will be needed for the Sanden air pump
7c. I have to get a low pressure return fitting for my steering box
8. I have to sharpen a bunch of drill bits so they are ready for use. I have to buy some drill bits that I will need.
9. I have to get the frame drilled to the bolt pattern.
10. I have to remove anything that will be in the way of the welder.
11. (Welding day)
a. Two plates will need to be made to fill in the flex hole in the frame, ground flush. The reinforcing plate will have to be welded in place on top of these plates.
b. The mounting holes will need to be extended through these plates.
c. The sleeves will have to be placed in the frame.
d. The spacer plate will have to be tack welded in place.
d1. Everything has to get burned in
e. I have to get a plate made in place of the EGR pipe that connects to the exhaust manifold.
f. I need a change made to the back end of my exhaust - tab with bolted connection.
g. I need my windshield frame support brackets (where the knobs screw in) to be rewelded in place so I can drive around with the the top (including bikini top) off.
h. I need to have a spacer plate welded to my shock tower.
12. There's a plate on my frame, welded in front of my steering stabilizer. It isn't really doing all that much good (maybe a little bit), but it's mostly in the way, so I'm going to have to cut that off. (See 7a)
13. The drag link, steering column, and intermediate shafts will have to be bolted up.
14. The shock towers will have been located and mounting holes drilled, but I will need to do some measuring and figure out what shocks I need to get (thinking Bilstein). Also figure out what steering damper is needed.
15. Trim fender(s) to accept steering box and shock towers.
16. Make sure high pressure hose works properly. If not figure out what needs to be done to make it work (research thread pitches if necessary, rebend hard sections to position loop in hose where I want it to be). It should work as long as the fender doesn't get in the way
17. Figure out what I'm going to do about a return line cooler (I decided I'm going to buy a tubing bender for $15 and try to rebend the tubing to fit where I want it to go, in front of the radiator behind the grille).
18. Get my steering all centered, get everything buttoned up, flush power steering system and go for a drive!

wesintl
05-10-2009, 10:41 PM
you want a 70 pitman arm?

subzali
05-11-2009, 06:41 AM
not right now (unless you really really want to get rid of it), what I have is going to work. Thanks!

MDH33
05-11-2009, 07:17 AM
Some 2.5" OME springs would really help that clearance issue. ;)

Nice job Matt! :thumb:

subzali
05-13-2009, 08:03 AM
Day 6: May 12, 2009 - 3.5 hours
Tools needed
1. Various box end wrenches (loving my stubby Gear Wrenches)/ratchet/sockets
2. Center Punch/Hammer
3. Drill bits
4. Portable electric drill (happens to be 1/2" drive with a big motor)

Today I basically removed the bib, radiator, and radiator support and cleaned up the frame so the welder can get to where he needs to weld. I made "rubbings" of the holes so I can make cardboard templates of the plates he's going to need to make to fill the holes in my frame. I got my low pressure steering box fitting from Burt, so all I have left is to get my spacer plate back from a guy my dad works with who's helping me with some machining, and get my sleeves figured out, then load it on the trailer and go! And hopefully everything will work out with the welder's schedule...

Punch List:
1. I need to start a list of mounting hardware I will need to get (I want to stay JIS metric for as much of this as possible) - box mounting bolts, exhaust clamp bolt, intermediate shaft bolts, etc.
2. I need to get my u-joint for the intermediate shaft to mock up my box fore/aft. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have this in hand
3. I am waiting on my drag link parts (FJ40 TRE and BJ70 drag link end) to mock up my box side-to-side. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have the TRE in hand. Still waiting on BJ70 drag link end - those Canadians are slow eh? EDIT: As of 4/30/09 4Wheel Auto in Canadia received the 70 series drag link ends they ordered. But they now come with the drag link tube attached, and the retail price has increased from about $100 CA for just the end to more than $225 CA for the end plus the tube :banghead:. It's cheaper to order the rebuild kit with all 4 ends than it is to order just this one...going to wait and see if they come up with any solutions...Specter's kit is $179. EDIT AGAIN: Don was able to find a 70 series drag link end for a "reasonable" price and it should be here this week.
4. I need to get the FJ55 column keyswitch removed by a locksmith (I don't have a key so I can't do it the kosher way and I don't want to destroy it) so I can use my current keyswitch. EDIT: As of 4/30/09 I went to a locksmith down the road from work and had them rekey my ignition switch to match to match my current keyset. We'll see if that stops the run-on problem I've had as well since I've owned this truck.
5. I need to mock up my shock towers and see what modifications will need to be made. EDIT: As of 4/29/09 I know I will need to bend the shock towers back to their original location. Maybe I can get rid of these to somebody who wants straight F-250 shock towers and I can go buy me some new bent shock towers? Any takers?
6. I have to get some plates (NOW!)(at least one, maybe two 1/4" plate) cut and drilled to the bolt pattern of my steering box.
7. I have to get some pipe (NOW!)for sleeving my frame, cut to length.
7a. I have to cut off the plate that's in the way of the steering stabilizer (some PO did it :confused:)
7b. I have to figure out what kind of bracketry will be needed for the Sanden air pump
7c. I have to get a low pressure return fitting for my steering box.
8. I have to sharpen a bunch of drill bits so they are ready for use. I have to buy some drill bits that I will need.
9. I have to get the frame drilled to the bolt pattern.
10. I have to remove anything that will be in the way of the welder.
11. (Welding day)
a. Two plates will need to be made to fill in the flex hole in the frame, ground flush. The reinforcing plate will have to be welded in place on top of these plates.
b. The mounting holes will need to be extended through these plates.
c. The sleeves will have to be placed in the frame.
d. The spacer plate will have to be tack welded in place.
d1. Everything has to get burned in
e. I have to get a plate made in place of the EGR pipe that connects to the exhaust manifold.
f. I need a change made to the back end of my exhaust - tab with bolted connection.
g. I need my windshield frame support brackets (where the knobs screw in) to be rewelded in place so I can drive around with the the top (including bikini top) off.
h. I need to have a spacer plate welded to my shock tower.
12. There's a plate on my frame, welded in front of my steering stabilizer. It isn't really doing all that much good (maybe a little bit), but it's mostly in the way, so I'm going to have to cut that off. (See 7a)
13. The drag link, steering column, and intermediate shafts will have to be bolted up.
14. The shock towers will have been located and mounting holes drilled, but I will need to do some measuring and figure out what shocks I need to get (thinking Bilstein). Also figure out what steering damper is needed.
15. Trim fender(s) to accept steering box and shock towers.
16. Make sure high pressure hose works properly. If not figure out what needs to be done to make it work (research thread pitches if necessary, rebend hard sections to position loop in hose where I want it to be). It should work as long as the fender doesn't get in the way
17. Figure out what I'm going to do about a return line cooler (I decided I'm going to buy a tubing bender for $15 and try to rebend the tubing to fit where I want it to go, in front of the radiator behind the grille).
18. Get my steering all centered, get everything buttoned up, flush power steering system and go for a drive!

PabloCruise
05-13-2009, 10:11 AM
Go Matt Go!!!

You are in the home stretch!

subzali
05-14-2009, 11:47 AM
At the risk of providing sig quote material, and bordering on our generally clean forum rules, I'm very excited to say that I have two nipples in my hands and the world is right again :D

Get your heads out of the gutter guys, it's pipe nipples I'm talking about...

3/8" sch. 80 is the perfect combo of OD/ID I will need for sleeving material, and I will bore out the middle with my 12mm drill so it's a tight fit around the mounting bolts.

Also had to get an 11/16" drill for the OD in the frame (which will be a LOT better than the 7/8" I was originally planning for when I was thinking I would have to use 1/2" sch 160. Turns out 11/16" drills are not easy to find (White Cap had one in stock) and 1/2" sch 160 is not easy to find either (maybe if I had asked for nipples they would have been available, but I like the 3/8" sch 80 nipples better). I got two 8" long nipples at Kelly Supply, which should give me a little extra material to work with. So tonight I have to do some finish grinding to my mounting plates, cut the threads off the nipples and cut them to approx. length, bore out the middle, and load the truck on the trailer. I think I now have everything I needed, talk about cutting it close :eek:

corsair23
05-14-2009, 12:31 PM
He said nipples...:lmao:

You are an inspiration to all of us weekend mechanics Matt :thumb:

subzali
05-15-2009, 04:45 PM
Day 7: May 14, 2009 - 2.5 hours
Tools needed
1. Various box end wrenches (loving my stubby Gear Wrenches)/ratchet/sockets
2. Center Punch/Hammer
3. Drill bits
4. Drill (happens to be 1/2" drive with a big motor)

Tonight I prepped my truck for the big day - tomorrow! I cut and drilled out my sleeves, trimmed down my reinforcement/spacer plates, finished making my templates for the filler plates, and loaded the truck on the trailer.

Punch List:
1. I need to start a list of mounting hardware I will need to get (I want to stay JIS metric for as much of this as possible) - box mounting bolts, exhaust clamp bolt, intermediate shaft bolts, etc.
2. I need to get my u-joint for the intermediate shaft to mock up my box fore/aft. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have this in hand
3. I am waiting on my drag link parts (FJ40 TRE and BJ70 drag link end) to mock up my box side-to-side. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have the TRE in hand. Still waiting on BJ70 drag link end - those Canadians are slow eh? EDIT: As of 4/30/09 4Wheel Auto in Canadia received the 70 series drag link ends they ordered. But they now come with the drag link tube attached, and the retail price has increased from about $100 CA for just the end to more than $225 CA for the end plus the tube :banghead:. It's cheaper to order the rebuild kit with all 4 ends than it is to order just this one...going to wait and see if they come up with any solutions...Specter's kit is $179. EDIT AGAIN: Don was able to find a 70 series drag link end for a "reasonable" price and it should be here this week.
4. I need to get the FJ55 column keyswitch removed by a locksmith (I don't have a key so I can't do it the kosher way and I don't want to destroy it) so I can use my current keyswitch. EDIT: As of 4/30/09 I went to a locksmith down the road from work and had them rekey my ignition switch to match to match my current keyset. We'll see if that stops the run-on problem I've had as well since I've owned this truck.
5. I need to mock up my shock towers and see what modifications will need to be made. EDIT: As of 4/29/09 I know I will need to bend the shock towers back to their original location. Maybe I can get rid of these to somebody who wants straight F-250 shock towers and I can go buy me some new bent shock towers? Any takers?
6. I have to get some plates (NOW!)(at least one, maybe two 1/4" plate) cut and drilled to the bolt pattern of my steering box.
7. I have to get some pipe (NOW!)for sleeving my frame, cut to length.
7a. I have to cut off the plate that's in the way of the steering stabilizer (some PO did it :confused:)
7b. I have to figure out what kind of bracketry will be needed for the Sanden air pump
7c. I have to get a low pressure return fitting for my steering box.
8. I have to sharpen a bunch of drill bits so they are ready for use. I have to buy some drill bits that I will need.
9. I have to get the frame drilled to the bolt pattern.
10. I have to remove anything that will be in the way of the welder.
11. (Welding day)
a. Two plates will need to be made to fill in the flex hole in the frame, ground flush. The reinforcing plate will have to be welded in place on top of these plates.
b. The mounting holes will need to be extended through these plates.
c. The sleeves will have to be placed in the frame.
d. The spacer plate will have to be tack welded in place.
d1. Everything has to get burned in
e. I have to get a plate made in place of the EGR pipe that connects to the exhaust manifold.
f. I need a change made to the back end of my exhaust - tab with bolted connection.
g. I need my windshield frame support brackets (where the knobs screw in) to be rewelded in place so I can drive around with the the top (including bikini top) off.
h. I need to have a spacer plate welded to my shock tower.
12. There's a plate on my frame, welded in front of my steering stabilizer. It isn't really doing all that much good (maybe a little bit), but it's mostly in the way, so I'm going to have to cut that off. (See 7a)
13. The drag link, steering column, and intermediate shafts will have to be bolted up.
14. The shock towers will have been located and mounting holes drilled, but I will need to do some measuring and figure out what shocks I need to get (thinking Bilstein). Also figure out what steering damper is needed.
15. Trim fender(s) to accept steering box and shock towers.
16. Make sure high pressure hose works properly. If not figure out what needs to be done to make it work (research thread pitches if necessary, rebend hard sections to position loop in hose where I want it to be). It should work as long as the fender doesn't get in the way
17. Figure out what I'm going to do about a return line cooler (I decided I'm going to buy a tubing bender for $15 and try to rebend the tubing to fit where I want it to go, in front of the radiator behind the grille).
18. Get my steering all centered, get everything buttoned up, flush power steering system and go for a drive!

subzali
05-15-2009, 04:51 PM
Day 8: May 15, 2009 - WELDING DAY - 5.5 hours
Tools needed
1. Various box end wrenches (loving my stubby Gear Wrenches)/ratchet/sockets
2. Center Punch/Hammer
3. Drill bits
4. Portable electric drill (happens to be 1/2" drive with a big motor)
5. Transfer punches
6. Lathe
7. Iron Worker machine
8. Bandsaw
9. Angle Grinder
10. Welder
11. Hammer/Chisel
12. all kinds of other stuff, I don't even know

Today was welding day, and it was a complete success! It all turned out great! We filled in the holes in the frame, transferred the mounting holes through to the back side, and welded plates on both sides and welded the sleeves in. I am very happy with the work. That assembly is not coming off, and everything lined up perfectly, it's a tight fit for the mounting bolts, the pitman arm just clears the frame and everything is looking great. Didn't get pics yet (didn't have my camera :doh:) but will get some as soon as I can. Have to put it back together now.

Punch List:
1. I need to start a list of mounting hardware I will need to get (I want to stay JIS metric for as much of this as possible) - box mounting bolts, exhaust clamp bolt, intermediate shaft bolts, etc.
2. I need to get my u-joint for the intermediate shaft to mock up my box fore/aft. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have this in hand
3. I am waiting on my drag link parts (FJ40 TRE and BJ70 drag link end) to mock up my box side-to-side. EDIT: As of 4/28/09 I have the TRE in hand. Still waiting on BJ70 drag link end - those Canadians are slow eh? EDIT: As of 4/30/09 4Wheel Auto in Canadia received the 70 series drag link ends they ordered. But they now come with the drag link tube attached, and the retail price has increased from about $100 CA for just the end to more than $225 CA for the end plus the tube :banghead:. It's cheaper to order the rebuild kit with all 4 ends than it is to order just this one...going to wait and see if they come up with any solutions...Specter's kit is $179. EDIT AGAIN: Don was able to find a 70 series drag link end for a "reasonable" price and it should be here this week.
4. I need to get the FJ55 column keyswitch removed by a locksmith (I don't have a key so I can't do it the kosher way and I don't want to destroy it) so I can use my current keyswitch. EDIT: As of 4/30/09 I went to a locksmith down the road from work and had them rekey my ignition switch to match to match my current keyset. We'll see if that stops the run-on problem I've had as well since I've owned this truck.
5. I need to mock up my shock towers and see what modifications will need to be made. EDIT: As of 4/29/09 I know I will need to bend the shock towers back to their original location. Maybe I can get rid of these to somebody who wants straight F-250 shock towers and I can go buy me some new bent shock towers? Any takers?
6. I have to get some plates (NOW!)(at least one, maybe two 1/4" plate) cut and drilled to the bolt pattern of my steering box.
7. I have to get some pipe (NOW!)for sleeving my frame, cut to length.
7a. I have to cut off the plate that's in the way of the steering stabilizer (some PO did it :confused:)
7b. I have to figure out what kind of bracketry will be needed for the Sanden air pump
7c. I have to get a low pressure return fitting for my steering box.
8. I have to sharpen a bunch of drill bits so they are ready for use. I have to buy some drill bits that I will need.
9. I have to get the frame drilled to the bolt pattern.
10. I have to remove anything that will be in the way of the welder.
11. (Welding day)
a. Two plates will need to be made to fill in the flex hole in the frame, ground flush. The reinforcing plate will have to be welded in place on top of these plates.
b. The mounting holes will need to be extended through these plates.
c. The sleeves will have to be placed in the frame.
d. The spacer plate will have to be tack welded in place.
d1. Everything has to get burned in
e. I have to get a plate made in place of the EGR pipe that connects to the exhaust manifold.
f. I need a change made to the back end of my exhaust - tab with bolted connection.
g. I need my windshield frame support brackets (where the knobs screw in) to be rewelded in place so I can drive around with the the top (including bikini top) off.
h. I need to have a spacer plate welded to my shock tower.
12. There's a plate on my frame, welded in front of my steering stabilizer. It isn't really doing all that much good (maybe a little bit), but it's mostly in the way, so I'm going to have to cut that off. (See 7a)
13. The drag link, steering column, and intermediate shafts will have to be bolted up.
14. The shock towers will have been located and mounting holes drilled, but I will need to do some measuring and figure out what shocks I need to get (thinking Bilstein). Also figure out what steering damper is needed.
15. Trim fender(s) to accept steering box and shock towers.
16. Make sure high pressure hose works properly. If not figure out what needs to be done to make it work (research thread pitches if necessary, rebend hard sections to position loop in hose where I want it to be). It should work as long as the fender doesn't get in the way
17. Figure out what I'm going to do about a return line cooler (I decided I'm going to buy a tubing bender for $15 and try to rebend the tubing to fit where I want it to go, in front of the radiator behind the grille).
18. Get my steering all centered, get everything buttoned up, flush power steering system and go for a drive!

subzali
05-18-2009, 07:03 AM
Day 9: May 17, 2009 - 9 hours
Tools needed
1. Various box end wrenches (loving my stubby Gear Wrenches)/ratchet/sockets
2. Angle Grinder
3. Hammer/Punch

Just in case you thought I was slacking, I went for a test drive today! I got the radiator back in, body panels mounted back up, and after 6 attempts at getting the right belt (went through about 13 or 14 belts to try and find the right length, it's a long story), which took 2.5 to 3 hours by itself (we live 15 minutes from the nearest parts store) I found the right one (with the help of my buddy CJ7 Matt) and we filled up the pump, bled it and tried it out! Very happy with the improvement!

Punch List:
1. I need to get some mounting hardware (I want to stay JIS metric for as much of this as possible)
1a. Box mounting bolts (they need to be a little bit longer and finer thread)
1b. Exhaust clamp bolt(s)
1c. Intermediate shaft bolt (needs to be a touch longer)
1d. Radiator support bolt
1e. Bib bolts
2. I need to figure out the bracketry to mount the Sanden air pump
3. I need to reconfigure the driver side radiator support rod, figure out how to make that work
4. I need to mess with the shock towers a little bit to get them to mount properly so they clear everything. I think I will have to move my lower shock mount a tad.
5. I have to cut off the plate that's in the way of the steering stabilizer (some PO did it :confused:)
6. I have to measure for shocks (probably going to go with a generic brand shock this time, since I might be doing a suspension lift and new tires in the somewhat-not-so-distant future)
7. Right now I'm not running a return line cooler. Should get that figured out before too long
8. Make sure my steering is centered
9. Take everything back apart and get it all cleaned and painted

If I were to do this again, I would probably do the following differently:
1. Cut the FJ55 column down just a tad (might still do this); it feels like it's crowding me a bit. Maybe if I move my seat back (which would help my long legs anyway) that will make it feel more comfortable.
2. I should have been paying more attention and tilted my steering box more forward, as I had a picture of in an above post.
3. I should have been more cognizant of my fore/aft alignment of the box. It would be nice for it to be about 1/2" more forward; the u-joint connections would clear the inner fender better.
4. Along the same lines, I would make the spacer plate a little shorter. It extends past the box towards the back of the truck. That coupled with the weld fillet push the shock tower a little further back than I would like. It's not a big deal, I just probably will have to relocate the lower shock mount to get it straight.
5. I would try to find a smaller diameter pulley (might still do this) for a couple reasons. A smaller pulley will give more boost (not like I need more; I can steer with one finger when I'm stopped), but there is also a problem with the JT Outfitter bracket. It's awfully close to the upper radiator hose, and it adjusts so it gets even closer as you tighten the belt, so whatever belt you're running has to be super tight (we got it half on then rotated the pulley to get it the rest of the way) and even then there's only 1/4" or so clearance. If I had the means/skills I would do that differently; I would make the bracket swing out away from the engine block and/or I would find a smaller diameter pulley.

Good stuff though! This conversion was a lot of work! The end result was somewhat anti-climactic: "Okay, so this feels like any other vehicle I've driven - my pickup, the Suburban, etc. Man that was a lot of work to get this truck up to 20th century standards!" :rolleyes: :D

But I tell you what, it's SO nice to not have slop in the steering! And the other benefits I will come to appreciate with time, when I'm on the trail and not fighting with the drawbacks of the OEM steering configuration...

We filled in the flex hole in the frame and partially filled another one (lower right), then welded this reinforcing plate on top and transferred the holes.
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0165.jpg

Here is the front side, with the spacer plate welded on (and there are sleeves in the frame BTW, just in case you missed that part in previous posts)
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0166.jpg

Closer view of the welds
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0167.jpg

Closer view of the front side
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0168.jpg

Notice how the plate extends past the box. I wish either the box was a bit further forward, or the plate was shorter, etc. because this pushes the location of the shock tower further back than I'd like.
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0169.jpg

Showing the clearance of the steering box with a 1/4" spacer - it just clears the radiator support
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0170.jpg

Showing marking the inner fender for clearancing
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0174.jpg

This is one of the reasons I wish the steering box was slightly more forward (Editorial note: http://www.borgeson.com/ makes u-joints and steering shafts for Jeeps and could probably make one up for a Land Cruiser application too. Iron Pig Offroad uses them for their FJ60 power steering conversion kits - this may eliminate the need for me to reposition my steering box or cut my fender, as the u-joint and shaft are smaller. In fact, the OEM shock tower may possibly be maintained if this route is taken, I will have to investigate further):
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0175.jpg

Showing the high pressure hose from JT Outfitters - no leaks yet
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0176.jpg

For now I used washers behind the top bolts where the inner fender mounts to the frame to space it out just enough so I wouldn't have to hack into the structural part of the fender support. This is how much (little) clearance I have, still have to figure out exactly what I'm going to end up doing here.
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0177.jpg

Everything installed, belt found, ready to be bled and go! The belt is from Autozone, it's a 15520, which I think is 15mm wide, 52" long (the OEM Toyota ps belt is 17mm BTW). But my 52 3/8" belt from NAPA was too short, so I'm not really sure...
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0178.jpg

Showing the clearance (or lack thereof) with the upper radiator hose
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_0179.jpg

PabloCruise
05-18-2009, 12:27 PM
Yippee Matt!!!

Congratulations - nicely done.

I remember I couldn't stop grinning when I drove mine again with the PS.

Great job.

RicardoJM
05-18-2009, 01:27 PM
[b] Very happy with the improvement!


Good stuff though! This conversion was a lot of work! The end result was somewhat anti-climactic: "Okay, so this feels like any other vehicle I've driven - my pickup, the Suburban, etc. Man that was a lot of work to get this truck up to 20th century standards!" :rolleyes: :D

But I tell you what, it's SO nice to not have slop in the steering!


You've done a great job Matt!!! :thumb:

wesintl
05-18-2009, 03:20 PM
Nice work. Obviously well thought out!

60wag
05-18-2009, 03:29 PM
Looks nice. Are those self locking nuts on the mounting bolts? Some form of a lock washer or nut would be good insurance.

subzali
05-18-2009, 03:57 PM
Those bolts were just for mockup/testing purposes because they're the correct diameter. Turns out they're too short anyway (reason why they don't have lock washers on them). I'm going to be getting JIS M12 bolts, correct length, with a flat washer, lock washer, and nut for each of those.

Thanks for the comments guys, I tried to think through as many issues/potential issues as I could, and though there are some things I would definitely do differently next time I think with my limited fabrication skills it turned out pretty good and will be safe and is not going to go anywhere.

treerootCO
05-18-2009, 07:19 PM
Just came in from flushing my power steering and thought I should post here a tip that was given to me when I installed my power steering. Jack both tires off the ground when first adding fluid. For some odd reason, you can't purge the system of air with the tires on the ground. If you don't believe me, get everything done and then jack the wheel up. The tine hole in the cap will shoot ps fluid about a mile high when the bubbles come out. I was unable to turn right when there was air in the system.

Jacket
05-18-2009, 08:55 PM
Congrats Matt. Thanks for the detailed account of your unique process. When I get around to my PS conversion this will be a very nice reference.

So are you going to do anything about that tight fit between the radiator hose and the belt?

treerootCO
05-18-2009, 08:57 PM
I think I have the same JT mount. I checked mine today and the clearance is different. Not sure why...

Here is an old pic:

MDH33
05-18-2009, 10:45 PM
Good job Matt! :thumb:

So, am I the last hold out using ArmStrong steering in their trail 40?? :hill:

Shark Bait
05-19-2009, 12:52 AM
Looks good, Matt! :woot:

subzali
05-19-2009, 06:30 AM
Good job Matt! :thumb:

So, am I the last hold out using ArmStrong steering in their trail 40?? :hill:

Nope, Zepp is right there with you ;)

I am probably going to look into getting a new upper radiator hose that has a different bend or something, or a smaller pulley. The hose will probably be easier. And actually looking at it I can probably just cut 1/2 inch or so off my current hose and rotate it and that will probably be enough to clear the pulley. I also need to make sure my fender clearance is sufficient, because I don't want the u-joint to bind when I'm driving down the road, keeping me from steering! :eek:

EDIT: looking at Treeroot's picture, it looks like his hose goes further away from his radiator before making its bend. Should be a simple fix for me.

subzali
05-22-2009, 07:00 PM
Thursday night I spent a couple hours doing some more trimming; got the fender clearanced so there is plenty of space and got the radiator hose cut a little bit shorter so there is more clearance there. I also measured for, bought and installed rear shocks so I'm working my way toward completion.

Today I spent 8 hours mounting my front Ford shock towers. I used a 1/4" spacer for the driver side, just a plate with two holes drilled in it to pass the bolts through, like I thought I would have to to clear the steering box/intermediate shaft. It was a good thing I had 8 hours because I thought this was only going to take 2.

I learned that the top shock tower bolt holes are .480" or so (clearance for M12 bolts?), so I'm boring them out to 1/2". Have to finish that up next time I head down. I also started to take off my front bumper. I have to get at the front frame rail and cut off the plate welded to it so I can get my steering damper off, and the easiest way, without doing upside-down grinding and getting sparks all over my body, is to take off the front bumper. Once I get the plate off then I will be able to determine whether my steering damper mount needs any work/modification. Hopefully it doesn't and I can measure for, buy and install a steering damper that will work hunky-dory. Then I'll basically be done. I had an idea today on what to do about the driver side radiator support rod that I had to remove because the intermediate shaft goes right where it used to go, I'll have to look closer and see if it will work and then at some point fabricate it up so I can have that installed again. And then I want to get on to my On-Board Air installation!

And I put locking washers etc. on my steering box and other components...

subzali
05-25-2009, 12:11 PM
Outstanding! You are going to love yourself! :eek:;)

I love myself ;)

Though it's not 100% done (not painted pretty etc.) I've been driving it for a bit, the Cruiser is my DD now for a little while, and I certainly do love the feeling of power steering! It just feels right! So glad I did this conversion!

Yesterday I spent about 3.5 hours cutting off the "hobo" plate welded to my front crossmember. Had to take off the bumper and I used Uncle Ben's advise of spooling the winch cable off the winch to lighten things up! Worked like a charm and I was able to lift the whole thing off and put it back on without taking the winch off the bumper! Once I got the hobo plate cut off I was able to get my old steering damper off using a TRE puller (again an UB recommendation, SO much better than a pickle fork or hammering on it with a mallet! :o) and got to looking at sizing up a new steering damper.

Something I learned yesterday while looking at my steering damper, is that if the box was any further forward (and I might have to do this anyway), the stock mount for the steering damper on the frame would probably have to be cut off and reversed. I'll try to take a picture sometime, but to keep the steering damper from interfering/binding because of the angles of the drag link, the frame side would probably have to get moved forward as well. I don't think that would be a problem, the winch sits far enough forward that the damper can sit just in front of the front crossmember and not interfere with it.

So even though above I said I would have liked to have the steering box a LITTLE bit further forward, it would definitely dictate that this damper mount moves forward a bit too (by flipping it).

wesintl
05-25-2009, 12:23 PM
I don't even have a steering damper on my spring over 40 with 60 ps. You don't really need it.

PabloCruise
05-27-2009, 09:15 PM
Matt, the Pig does not have a steering damper either (60 series PS) - no shimmies...

Hulk
05-28-2009, 12:55 AM
Yeah, I think I killed my steering damper when I did the saginaw ps -- I'll have to look to be sure. It's been a while, and I tend to forget project details within days of completion.

belaw
05-31-2009, 09:43 AM
Matt:

TJ referred me to this writeup, and I'm hoping you can give me some more details about how you went about sleeving the frame. In particular, I'm curious about how you went about drilling the holes for your bolt pattern? I gather that you first drilled to 1/2" and then, after dry-fitting everything, bored them up to 11/16"- correct? Did you bore both sides of the frame out to 11/16" or just the outside? I guess I'm asking do the sleeves pass all the way through the frame, or are they just welded on the outside? Also, how did you go about reaming the 3/8 schedule 80 pipe to 1/2"- did you use a lathe or drill press (I only have a drill press is why I'm asking)?

Any guidance you can provide will be greatly appreciated; there just isn't much information out there on sleeving a frame.

Another question: you mentioned that you couldn't use straightened F250 shock towers because they interfered with the steering shaft. Was the problem because of the size of the u-joint? I'm planning on using a lower profile u-joint (borgeson or wildwood), and was wondering if that would allow me to use straightened towers.

Brian

subzali
05-31-2009, 06:26 PM
Matt:

TJ referred me to this writeup, and I'm hoping you can give me some more details about how you went about sleeving the frame. In particular, I'm curious about how you went about drilling the holes for your bolt pattern?
There are several ways to get the holes drilled in the frame. The easiest way would be to get a 12mm (15/32" I think) transfer punch, and once you have the steering box located where you want on the frame use the transfer punch to locate your holes. Then drill them out to whatever size you want and use a transfer punch that matches that size hole to punch the back side of the frame and through-drill the holes.

I gather that you first drilled to 1/2" and then, after dry-fitting everything, bored them up to 11/16"- correct?
Yes but if you have the pipe bored out you could just drill it up to the 11/16" size and do the dry fit that way. Or you can drill it to M12 and do the dry fit that way. Your choice, it's kinda hard to know what exactly is the right way to do it until you're there in the middle of it.

Did you bore both sides of the frame out to 11/16" or just the outside? I guess I'm asking do the sleeves pass all the way through the frame, or are they just welded on the outside?
Ideally the sleeve would be welded on both sides of the frame. But I think if you butted the sleeve to the inside of the frame and then welded the opposite side it would in essence have the same effect. Maybe somebody else could comment on this. Welded on both sides is best as long as you can keep everything square.

Also, how did you go about reaming the 3/8 schedule 80 pipe to 1/2"- did you use a lathe or drill press (I only have a drill press is why I'm asking)?
I had to get creative with many things on this project; whatever works for you is really the best. Again, a lathe would be ideal, but if you can find a way to secure it in a drill press then that would be good too. Realistically, there is enough warping when you're welding that things might not end up in perfect alignment anyway and you might have to take a reaming bit to open up the sleeves just a tad on one side or the other anyway. Also, the bolts that hold the box on are 12mm, not 1/2", so that's what I bored the sleeves to. I started with 1/2" on the frame because that's the only bit I had at the time that was about the right size.

Any guidance you can provide will be greatly appreciated; there just isn't much information out there on sleeving a frame.

Another question: you mentioned that you couldn't use straightened F250 shock towers because they interfered with the steering shaft. Was the problem because of the size of the u-joint? I'm planning on using a lower profile u-joint (borgeson or wildwood), and was wondering if that would allow me to use straightened towers.

Brian
I'm no metal fabricator, really, so there are probably many many ways this could have been done. My limitation was that I don't know how to make good welds, so a lot of the final fitting and welding of the sleeves etc. was being done on the welder's time, so I didn't have time to figure out the optimum way to do it; I had his input and we figured out the best way we thought would work and give me what I wanted. I'm sure there are a lot of other guys on this forum who have advice on a better way it could have been done, or they have a better knowledge of the tools of the trade so they could provide input there too.

Yes, the intermediate shaft u-joint was large enough that it was hitting the shock tower. But also the steering box input is large enough that it overhangs the frame a bit on the outside, so even with a smaller u-joint I don't think a straight shock tower will sit flush on the frame on that side without a spacer. You'll just have to mock it up and see. Just make sure that the input shaft is sitting up just a tad from your frame; I have a couple posts/pictures showing that I almost messed that up quite a bit by having it too low.

Hope that helps, a lot of the how-tos are hard to explain and are probably better left to your judgment once you're in the middle of it, so you can come up with a solution that will work for you.

subzali
07-14-2009, 12:07 PM
Couple updates:
getting ready for my wedding in September is keeping me pretty busy and I'm watching my pennies. Jacki and I are also taking Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University, so I am really watching it because it sounds pretty cool to be debt-free, and it won't be that hard for us because we're young. Also since I got the Tundra things have been a little bumpy just getting that all in order (with the red truck and everything too). So I haven't really had a chance to do much to the Cruiser. I need to address some electrical issues (headlights, instrument panel, etc.) before I will let myself do too many other mods - even though I've got two on the back burner that I would really like to get done (OBA and aux fuel tank). Anyway I cleaned out my dad's barn of a lot of parts that were swapped out for this conversion, I'm sure he appreciated that (it's good to purge once in a while).

Anyway, I took it out on Argentine a couple weeks ago and am loving it! Driving on the road is a lot more enjoyable (I think my vibrations are down some), and the trails are PLENTY more enjoyable as well! Doing one-handed u-turns over rocks, driving over boulders and not having the wheel pull from my hand, every part of it is amazing!

I'm still not running a steering stabilizer, and after thinking about the comments above some more and reading on MUD a little bit, and after driving it and seeing how it has done, I am thinking it's ok to leave it off for now. I think I would feel like the conversion is more "complete" if I got one on, but I will save that for a day when I don't have a bunch of other things to do.

I also would still like to install a cooler, but again same issue as before. The steering wheel is a little closer to me than I would prefer as well, but it wouldn't be hard for a fabricator to cut it down some, or I could put in some seats that sit up higher and further back. Just all part of the process and the evolution.

I also found out that Poser and others on MUD, who sell the kits for the Saginaw conversions, also sell sleeves (and I'm assuming instructions) for how to sleeve the frame properly so everything lines up. I haven't looked into it any further, but for someone who is contemplating that just know the information is out there. I don't know if that would have helped with my conversion though; what would have made mine a LOT easier would have been to remove the engine so I could drill the frame from both sides and mark exactly on both sides where I wanted the holes to be. But I was able to figure it out without doing that and it's fine.

Anyway, very happy with the conversion, after driving it for a bit, and would say it is very well worth the time, money, and effort! :thumb:

corsair23
07-14-2009, 12:38 PM
The steering wheel is a little closer to me than I would prefer as well, but it wouldn't be hard for a fabricator to cut it down some, or I could put in some seats that sit up higher and further back. Just all part of the process and the evolution.

How about a smaller steering wheel? You still have the OEM steering wheel? With PS you don't need that big wheel anymore :D

I know they are OEM but the Grant wheels are pretty nice. I installed one of the security dealyos as well that allows you to remove the steering wheel :cool: - Anyway, the smaller diameter steering wheel really seems to open up some space.

AxleIke
07-14-2009, 12:40 PM
Awesome work Matt! Very cool thread. I love the detail, and attention to little stuff.

subzali
07-14-2009, 01:53 PM
How about a smaller steering wheel?

for some reason that option doesn't appeal to me as much as modifying the steering column or getting some heated seats that sit a little higher and further back :cool:

I guess I like the look and feel of a stock cockpit, at least for now.

PabloCruise
07-14-2009, 02:10 PM
Great recap Matt!

I like the stock wheel as wheel. It keeps things looking stock...

corsair23
07-14-2009, 03:04 PM
You purists!! :lmao:

subzali
07-24-2009, 05:02 PM
today I had some good Cruiser love time in preparation for the Ghost Town Run and got a couple little things fixed:
-when I moved my headlight switch when I put in a tach I suddenly lost my instrument cluster lights. Oh great. Well today I found out that it was just the set screw on the knob wasn't seated properly, so I had turned the knob so the lights were off and wasn't able to spin it back because the knob was just spinning on the shaft. That was simple.
-so I finished wiring in the backlight for the tach so now I can see rpms at night! :thumb:
-somehow I lost the clamp bolt for the base of the steering column inside the truck, so my keyswitch/turn signals could spin around. Got a bolt and nut and got that bolted down solid.
-Since that was taken care of my newfound turn signal problems went away - I guess the force of the switch going up and down twisted the column enough to keep them from engaging or something.
-While switching out my turn signal/keyswitch to my new column I had taken the turn signal lever cover thing off for the regular/high beam switch and the detent ball fell out. I was able to get it put back together but must have done something wrong because the detent wasn't doing its job properly and my lights wanted to be in the bright position all the time and I had to hold the lever back if I was driving at night to keep from blinding people. After some finagling with it today I got it put back together properly so the detent does what it's supposed to and my switch works amazingly much better than before! :thumb:
-Got my steering wheel centered
-topped of my t-case
-Adjusted my brake pedal height/freeplay and took care of the problem of having the brake lights stay on after releasing the pedal (I hope)

So little by little buttoning everything up! I'm excited to get the truck out on a long-distance drive!

Dr. Schlegs
07-26-2009, 01:00 AM
RicardoJM and Subzila,

I would like to talk to you two about the conversation. Ricardo and I discussed this a little bit at the last meeting, but it would be nice to compare the two set-ups. I have heard of this conversation being done several ways and just want to get the best one for my '72.

subzali
07-26-2009, 08:19 PM
Sure! Ricardo's is a minitruck conversion on a F engine, mine is a Saginaw/FJ60 conversion on a 2F engine. The minitruck is a very popular conversion because it's so easy! A full Saginaw conversion is also very popular because of the extra boost desired for tires larger than about 35". Mine is using the Saginaw pump but I liked the design/placement/linkage configuration of the FJ60 steering box better so that's what I went with! You can start a new thread or keep posting to either one of ours with questions! :thumb:

subzali
07-26-2009, 09:09 PM
Had a couple questions from MUD today so I thought I would copy my response:

Hey Dan, I replied below. It would be awesome to see your truck up here sometime (either one!)

Matt:

Excellent writeup in the RS section.

Couple of questions...
1)How do you like it? Any funny steering issues like bump steer? I absolutely love it! Still working on belt tension, I get some squeals once in a while. No bump steer that I can tell (though I have never experienced it before so I'm not sure what to look for) - I kept the drag link as parallel as possible to the tie rod as I could (it's at least as parallel as factory) so I can't imagine why I would have any problems...
2)Could you look at this thread http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/249156-here-we-go-fj-40-getting-3b-turbo-h55f-6.html and let me know how the position of the steering box on yours compares to mine? They look pretty close to me. I would suggest having the small end of the pitman arm centered under the big hole in the frame if your intermediate shaft allows for it, or even a small bit forward. If you check my thread you'll see where I had to cut into the inner fender a small bit to allow my intermediate shaft u-joint to have full rotation. If your intermediate shaft is using a smaller u-joint then I would keep it where you're at, looks about the same as mine.
3)Anything you'd do differently? Mine is pretty much the exact same thing, so I figured I'd ask someone who had recently done the same thing to see if there was anything I should do differently. I would either shorten the FJ55 steering column 1 1/2" or move the seats back. I just got back from a road trip where we were doing light 4-wheeling from 10-4 or so plus another 2 1/2 hours of driving and my arms are pretty tired, mostly I think because the wheel is too close to me so I'm holding my arms up just a tad. The other thing I would NOT do is combine the 70 series TRE at the pitman arm to the 70 series drag link tube to the FJ40 TRE at the tie rod. Way too expensive for what you get. I would have a custom tube made to connect a 60 series TRE at the pitman arm to an FJ40 TRE at the tie rod (basically they will take a tube and thread one end left handed for the 60 end and thread the other end right handed for the 40 end). Also pay attention to the rod end you use at the tie rod. The stud has to be pretty long because the boss on the rod for the drag link to plug into is pretty thick, thicker (I found out) than the steering arm. If you notice in my thread I used the driver (left) side FJ40 tie rod end for my drag link-to-tie rod connection. The stud is ALMOST too short to work, but it does work. If you find a better solution (Wayne mentioned 79+ components - that sounds like it will work in theory) then I will probably switch over to that just to be on the safe side.

Hope that helps!

The big thing that his thread brought out is that Wayne (crushers) suggested (based on lowenbrau's advice) to use a 79+ drag link end at the tie rod. To me this makes sense because the threaded part will be the larger diameter just like the 60 and 70 series, but (hopefully) it will have the smaller diameter tapered stud to connect to the FJ40 tie rod. The other cool thing is that even though the driver side FJ40 tie rod end (at the steering arm) works fine for that connection as well, the stud is just a hair on the short side (as far as length is concerned), because the hole in the steering arm is shorter than the hole in the tie rod, so the tapered stud is designed to be a different length for those two applications. However, looking at SOR.com they show the same part number up until 1984 for the 40 series, so it looks like that didn't change even though some of the other front-end components did (like the large pattern steering knuckles, Aisin hubs and short birfields). The 60 one won't work because the rebuildable end is too long to use the 70 series drag link tube. So there you have it. I hope you're thoroughly confused now. I think I am.

Basically I will hold my breath and see if his works ok, and if his guinea pig experiment works out I'll cough up the $40 or $70 to get another end to replace the one I have.

PabloCruise
07-27-2009, 11:26 AM
Thanks Matt.

I still have a little bit of shimmy on the 40 (I adjusted the box) so I think I am going to replace TRE's all the way around.

I want to put 60 ends at both ends of the "drag link" (relay rod in my mind), get custom tube relay rod made and use a tapered reamer on the pass side 40 TRE.

I'll keep you posted!

subzali
07-27-2009, 02:09 PM
that sounds like probably the best solution TJ, especially since those ends are rebuildable and the parts are cheaper than replacing the whole thing. Sounds like it will work! :thumb: That's probably what I will end up doing someday after I'm done trying to figure out all the options (the '79+ thing still has me puzzled) and my TREs are worn out.

subzali
08-30-2009, 12:00 PM
So as Treeroot warned me my pump was groaning yesterday on Argentine Pass - what is the cause of that and what can I do to make it stop. Is the fluid getting too hot and the pump is cavitating?

rover67
08-30-2009, 01:15 PM
My saginaw pump with FJ60 steering box would start to groan when it got hot, so I added a tranny cooler to the return line and it seems to have cured it. I don't know if that would help yours though.. It'd only do it after several hours of "hard" wheeling.

subzali
12-05-2009, 09:18 AM
I think I have the same JT mount. I checked mine today and the clearance is different. Not sure why...

Here is an old pic:
http://risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/attachment.php?attachmentid=12900&stc=1&d=1242701834

So Treeroot are you using a wide belt on the narrow groove p/s pulley?

EDIT: he pm'd me and said the pulley is from an AMC Eagle...

PabloCruise
03-12-2010, 01:08 PM
Matt,

Did you end up adding a PS cooler?

I saw a neat little cooler on a Tundra that I think would work perfect. I will try to post pics later...

subzali
03-14-2010, 10:13 AM
No not yet. My red truck starting puking oil (front main seal) right when I was about at that part of the project so I had to get the 40 back together to drive it for a week. Then I bought the Tundra, then I got married, then I got relocated to New Mexico so I haven't really worked on it at all. I'm still battling an issue that keeps killing my batteries as well, and not really interested in spending money on the Cruiser at the moment (tires for her car and mine as well as a timing belt change are eating into the budget $$ :( ). Anyway there are a lot of loose ends that I would like to clean up, and the cooler is just one of them. I have the cooler from a 60 series that I was going to try first, but I've seen tranny coolers from 80 series and I guess Tundras like you mention used that would seem to work pretty well. It's only groaned at me once so...

...but post up some pictures! Someday it'll get finished!

PabloCruise
03-15-2010, 04:11 PM
I didn't know you got relocated to NM - I thought it was just a field assignment (temporary).

I sitll miss being in northern NM, beautiful country...

subzali
03-16-2010, 06:52 AM
well it's temporary until the end of September...still a long time :(

PabloCruise
03-19-2010, 11:24 PM
Enjoy it while you are there...

subzali
11-20-2010, 11:32 PM
Matt,

Did you end up adding a PS cooler?

I saw a neat little cooler on a Tundra that I think would work perfect. I will try to post pics later...

Time to update this thread...

November 20, 2010 - 4 hours
Tools needed
1. wrenches
2. screwdrivers
3. ratchet/sockets
4. tubing bender

Tonight I got kicked out of my apartment because my wife had a bunch of friends over, so I decided to tackle a piece of the power steering project that I intended to do during the original conversion, but wasn't able to. In August of '09 I spent a day up on Argentine Pass, and towards the late afternoon my pump began to groan a little bit, presumably due to the fluid getting hot from me being aired down the whole day. Well tonight I set about to add a power steering cooler.

I've had the p/s cooler loop from an FJ60 ever since I started acquiring parts for the conversion, and that's what I intended to install tonight. After looking at it for a few minutes I came up with what I thought was a decent solution and went to it. I mounted the cooler loop to the grille, attaching it to the mesh screen. After some slight rebending of the the tube I got the fit I wanted and it made a perfect match to the low pressure outlet of the p/s pump, needing just a short section of hose to connect the two. I then ran the other side of the coil back up to the pump. I like how it sits in front of the radiator and should benefit from the extra airflow moving across it, as opposed to its factory position in an FJ60.

Here's a couple pictures of how it sits on the grille:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_3291.jpg
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_3292.jpg

Here's a couple pictures of the distance between the low pressure outlet and the coil:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_3298.jpg
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_3299.jpg

And here's a picture of it sneaking past the radiator:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_3300.jpg

I have a couple issues with it, but I'm very happy with the way this turned out considering I'm just using what I already have and not doing any more significant fabbing. Here's my issues:
-The bolts used to fasten the cooler to the grille mesh. Two of the bolt heads are plain as day on the grille. I'm not really going to worry about it now, but it does kinda bother me a little bit.

-The loop is really longer than it needs to be. It also bends down on the far side away from the box, which I don't think will be a problem; we'll just have to wait and see once I run it.

Here's a picture of the bolt heads (the other two are hidden behind the bezel):
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_3295.jpg

Other than that I don't think I could have asked for a better fit! :D

Old40Dog
11-21-2010, 10:24 AM
Here's my issues:
-The bolts used to fasten the cooler to the grille mesh. Two of the bolt heads are plain as day on the grille. I'm not really going to worry about it now, but it does kinda bother me a little bit.

-The loop is really longer than it needs to be. It also bends down on the far side away from the box, which I don't think will be a problem; we'll just have to wait and see once I run it.

Other than that I don't think I could have asked for a better fit! :D

Great job Matt! :thumb: A little black paint on the bolt heads and you'll barely notice them and the extra length of the tube will only add to the effectiveness of the cooler on extremely hot days! :cool: Glad to see you got back to the project!

PabloCruise
11-23-2010, 10:11 PM
Time to update this thread...

November 20, 2010 - 4 hours
Tools needed
1. wrenches
2. screwdrivers
3. ratchet/sockets
4. tubing bender

Tonight I got kicked out of my apartment because my wife had a bunch of friends over, so I decided to tackle a piece of the power steering project that I intended to do during the original conversion, but wasn't able to. In August of '09 I spent a day up on Argentine Pass, and towards the late afternoon my pump began to groan a little bit, presumably due to the fluid getting hot from me being aired down the whole day. Well tonight I set about to add a power steering cooler.

I've had the p/s cooler loop from an FJ60 ever since I started acquiring parts for the conversion, and that's what I intended to install tonight. After looking at it for a few minutes I came up with what I thought was a decent solution and went to it. I mounted the cooler loop to the grille, attaching it to the mesh screen. After some slight rebending of the the tube I got the fit I wanted and it made a perfect match to the low pressure outlet of the p/s pump, needing just a short section of hose to connect the two. I then ran the other side of the coil back up to the pump. I like how it sits in front of the radiator and should benefit from the extra airflow moving across it, as opposed to its factory position in an FJ60.

Here's a couple pictures of how it sits on the grille:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_3291.jpg
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_3292.jpg

Here's a couple pictures of the distance between the low pressure outlet and the coil:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_3298.jpg
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_3299.jpg

And here's a picture of it sneaking past the radiator:
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_3300.jpg

I have a couple issues with it, but I'm very happy with the way this turned out considering I'm just using what I already have and not doing any more significant fabbing. Here's my issues:
-The bolts used to fasten the cooler to the grille mesh. Two of the bolt heads are plain as day on the grille. I'm not really going to worry about it now, but it does kinda bother me a little bit.

-The loop is really longer than it needs to be. It also bends down on the far side away from the box, which I don't think will be a problem; we'll just have to wait and see once I run it.

Here's a picture of the bolt heads (the other two are hidden behind the bezel):
http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/photopost/data/560/IMG_3295.jpg

Other than that I don't think I could have asked for a better fit! :D

Very cool Matt - good job!

Here is the cooler I was talking about:

subzali
08-21-2011, 09:16 PM
One thing I haven't liked about my power steering conversion is the use of the narrow belt for the JT Outfitters pulley. Since everything else on a 2F is designed for a wide belt, including my new Sanden compressor that I will be using for on-board-air, I'm determined to make the switch. Besides, my belt squeals when turning at a stop, which I think will be remedied by going with a wide belt. I stopped by Ricardo's to take some measurements of his pump, which came off a Volvo 240 series. His didn't make a peep, even when turned up against the steering stops, so I have to believe that there is something different about his setup that works better. I'm betting on the belt.

Anyway, back to the Volvo pump. I think it's basically the same Saginaw pump with the 3/4" press-fit shaft like mine has (i.e. not keyed), except the pulley has 4 bolts on its face. I wanted to find out what they bolted to and how this thing was put together. Basically the pulley is bolted to a hub that is pressed onto the shaft. Some pictures:

subzali
08-21-2011, 09:35 PM
I took some measurements and everything looks the same: boss depth (protrusion from pump body), centerline of pulley to mounting face of pump body, centerline of pulley to end of shaft, etc., so if I can get a junkyard pump and pull the hub/pulley off they will line up exactly the same as my current setup and I won't have to drain any fluid or anything, just swap pulley.

So I pulled off my JTO pulley, essentially destroying it in the process.

On Ricardo's recommendation, I went to Colorado Auto and Salvage, near Svigel's. Turns out they had a 240 that looked promising. After pulling the pulley off and trying to put a puller on the hub and then realizing it wasn't going to budge, I gave up, cut the hoses, and pulled the whole pump. $28 later I'm out of there, figuring I have an extra pump in case something happens. I'm going to soak the pulley/hub with PB Blaster etc. for a little while and try again; I'd really like to not end up swapping pumps, which would require me to drain the fluid and then try to find out if my hose fittings work or if I'll have to get a new high pressure hose.

subzali
08-24-2011, 08:41 PM
Little update: it worked.

Spent some time getting the hub pressed off the Volvo p/s pump, then pressed back on my p/s pump. So moral of the story is this: Use the Volvo style pulley, I don't know why I didn't do this before. The JT Outfitters pulley is a bad solution, just for the pure fact that it is a narrow pulley and a 2F wants a wide pulley. Anyway...

1. My Saginaw pump (from JT Outfitters, basically the same as the Volvo pump)
2. The pulley puller/installer tool
3. Hub installed
4. Pulley bolted on to hub

subzali
08-25-2011, 07:50 PM
Tonight, after going to 3 parts stores, I finally found a belt that would be suitable at Pep Boys. I tell ya what, I'm getting to be more and more impressed with that place, they seem to have what I need and are open reasonable hours (unlike the AHEM! NAPA on County Line :rolleyes:)

Anyway, my old belt was a 15520 and the new 17540, so I went from a 15mm wide, 52" long belt to a 17mm wide, 54" long belt. I think the Toyota width is actually 22mm, because the 17mm is still narrow, but it's better.

Best part is, no squeaks! Even when I hit the steering stops, the belt chattered a little but it didn't squeak like before! That was a main goal of this project!

Looking at the pictures, you can see how tight of a fit it is. My Sanden compressor is mm away from the p/s gear, and my belt is mm away from my upper radiator hose.

So I was thinking about it, and I was about 80% satisfied with my execution of my p/s job. I was hoping this was going to bump me to 85%, but with the belt still being a touch narrow I'm going to say 82.5% for now. I have three more somewhat major modifications that will bring me to 100%.

subzali
04-10-2014, 08:23 AM
Someone pm'd me about this thread and steering columns a couple weeks ago - could I get you to re-pm me? I deleted them accidently and I forget your username but I wanted to follow up with you :o

SteveH
04-10-2014, 08:47 AM
Looks great - that Volvo PS pump fits about as well as anything could. You might put a sleeve (plastic, like Jeeps and Fords use) on the upper radiator hose, so that a flying/loose/oscillating belt won't hack through your hose. You could also loosen the hose ends and perhaps twist the hose to angle it further away from the belt.