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Corbet
05-03-2009, 03:54 PM
fjz80 will not start.

discharge warning light came on. went off, back on. pulled over to check under hood. vehicle was running fine. would not restart. no spark. here is where gets weird. when you turn key to ignition hot the CEL doen not light and I can't put trans in neutral. Brake shift interlock will not disengage.

engine turns over. all fuses are good.

posted this from my cell phone. If you have answers people are manning the lines please call direct. 970 nine 46 - 3six22

theboomboom
05-03-2009, 04:23 PM
check these links corbet
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/271084-crank-no-start.html
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/210022-check-engine-light.html

Corbet
05-03-2009, 06:02 PM
OK we strapped it back to moab. in checker parking lot.

followed trouble shoot per mud thread. can't find the AM2 relay/fuse mentioned?

no spark, no fuel out return line.

No headlights, heat/ac blower, brake lights. radio works

set of 3 fuseable links behind battery all test out.

AM1 seems all OK.

so I guess its the AM2. so where is it?

nakman
05-03-2009, 06:07 PM
Corbet I got your message. You can download the entire 1996 wiring manual by clicking here (http://risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/1996_manual/1996 Toyota Landcruiser Wiring Diagrams.zip). I will start digging through it myself to try to locate your relay.

Ok, here's the one that shows AM2:

Corbet
05-03-2009, 06:20 PM
still using phone to access internet. can't open pdf, word etc... I can barely get MUD to run. RS forum much better.

need instruction written out here or call me direct. thanks

nakman
05-03-2009, 06:41 PM
Guys, I could really use a hand here. I know nothing about this stuff, all I can really do is post up the manual, which I will proceed to do now. Any real time help would be appreciated, don't call me please call Corbet.



The Engine Control System Utilizes A Microcomputer And Maintains Overall Control Of The Engine, Etc. An
Outline Of The Engine Control Is Given Here.
1. Input Signals
(1) Engine Coolant Temp. Signal Circuit
The Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor Detects The Engine Coolant Temp. And Has A Built-in Thermistor With A
Resistance Which Varies According To The Water Temp. Is Input Into Terminal Thw Of The Engine Control
Module As A Control Signal.
(2) Intake Air Temp. Signal Circuit
The Intake Air Temp. Sensor Is Installed In The Mass Air Flow And Detects The Intake Air Temp. Which Is Input
As A Control Signal To Terminal Tha Of The Engine Control Module.
(3) Oxygen Density Signal Circuit
The Oxygen Density In The Exhaust Emission Is Detected And Input As A Control Signal From The Heated
Oxygen Sensor (bank 1 Sensor 1, Bank 1 Sensor 2) To Terminals Ox1, Ox2 Of The Engine Control Module.
To Stabilize Detection Performance By The Heated Oxygen Sensor Is Warmed.
(4) Rpm Signal Circuit
Crankshaft Position Is Detected By The Crankshaft Position Sensor And The Pick-up Coil Installed Inside
The Distributor. Crankshaft Position Is Input As A Control Signal To Terminal Ne2+ Of The Engine Control
Module, And Engine Speed Is Input To Terminal Ne.
(5) Throttle Position Signal Circuit
The Throttle Position Sensor Detects The Throttle Valve Opening Angle As A Control Signal Which Is Input
Into Terminal Vta Of The Engine Control Module. When The Valve Is Completely Closed, The Engine Idling
Signal Is Input Into Terminal Idl.
(6) Vehicle Speed Circuit
The Vehicle Speed Is Detected By Vehicle Speed Sensor Installed In The Transmission, And The Signal Is
Input To Terminal Spd Of The Engine Control Module Via The Combination Meter.
(7) Neutral Position Signal Circuit
The Park/neutral Position Sw Detects Whether The Shift Position Is In n And p Or Not, And The Signal Is
Input Into Terminal Sta Of The Engine Control Module.
(8) A/c Sw Signal Circuit
The Operating Voltage Of The A/c Magnetic Clutch Is Detected, And The Signal Is Input Into Terminal A/c Of
The Engine Control Module As A Control Signal.
(9) Battery Signal Circuit
Voltage Is Constantly Applied To Terminal Batt Of The Engine Control Module. With The Ignition Sw Turned
On, The Voltage For Engine Control Module Start-up Power Supply Is Applied To Terminal +b Of The Engine
Control Module Via Thw Efi Main Relay.
The Current Flow Through The Ign Fuse Flows To Terminal Igsw Of The Engine Control Module.
(10) Intake Air Volume Signal Circuit
Intake Air Volume Is Detected By The Mass Air Flow, And The Signal Is Input To Terminal Vg Of The Engine
Control Module As A Control Signal.
(11) Stop Light Sw Signal Circuit
The Stop Light Sw Is Used To Detect Whether The Vehicle Is Braking Or Not, And The Signal Is Input Into
Terminal Stp Of The Engine Control Module As A Control Signal.
(12) Starter Signal Circuit
To Confirm Whether The Engine Is Cranking, The Voltage Is Applied To The Starter Motor During Cranking Is
Detected And The Signal Is Input Into Terminal Nsw Of The Engine Control Module As A Control Signal.
(13) Engine Knock Signal Circuit
Engine Knocking Is Detected By The Knock Sensor 1 And 2, And The Signal Is Input Into Terminals Knk1 And
Knk2 As A Control Signal.

nakman
05-03-2009, 06:42 PM
2. Control System
* Sfi System
The Sfi System Monitors The Engine Condition Through The Signals Input From Each Sensor (input Signals
From (1) To (13) Etc.) To The Engine Control Module. The Best Fuel Injection Timing Is Decided Based On This
Data And The Program Memorized By The Engine Control Module, And The Control Signal Is Output To
Terminals #10, #20, #30, #40, #50 And #60 Of The Engine Control Module To Operate The Injector. (inject The Fuel).
The Sfi System Produces Control Of Fuel Injection Operation By The Engine Control Module In Response To
The Driving Conditions.
* Esa System
The Esa System Monitors The Engine Condition Through The Signals Input To The Engine Control Module
From Each Sensor (input Signals From (1), (2), (4) To (13) Etc.). The Best Ignition Timing Is Decided According To
This Data And The Memorized Data In The Engine Control Module, And The Control Signal Is Output To
Terminal Igt This Signal, Which Controls The Igniter To Provide The Best Ignition Timing For The Driving
Conditions.
* Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater Control System
The Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater Control System Turns The Heater On When The Intake Air Volume Is Low
(temp. Of Exhaust Emissions Is Low), And Warms Up The Oxygen Sensor To Improve Detection Performance Of
The Sensor. The Engine Control Module Evaluates The Signals From Each Sensor (input Signals From (1), (2),
(4), (9) To (11) Etc.), And Outputs Current To Terminals Ht And Ht2 To Control The Heater.
* Idle Air Control System
The Idle Air Control System (step Motor Type) Increases The Engine Speed And Provides Idling Stability For
Fast Idle-up When The Engine Is Cold And When The Idle Speed Has Dropped Due To Electrical Load And So On.
The Engine Control Module Evaluates The Signals From Each Sensor (input Signals From (1), (4), (5), (8), (9), (11)
Etc.) And Outputs Current To Terminal Isc1, Isc2, Isc3 And Isc4 To Control The Idle Air Control Valve.
* Egr Cut Control System
The Egr Cut Control System Controls The Vsv (egr) By Evaluating The Signal From Each Sensor (input
Signals From (1), (5), (9)), And Outputs Current To Terminal Egr Of The Engine Control Module.
* Fuel Pump Control System
The Engine Control Module Ooperation Outputs To Terminal Fpr And Controls The Fuel Pump Relay And Thus
Controls The Fuel Pump Drive Speed In Response To Conditions.
* Fuel Pressure Control System
The Fuel Pressure Up System Causes The Vsv (fuel Pressure Control) To Come On For High Temp. Starts And
Immediately After Starting In Order To Increase The Fuel Pressure, Improve Startability At High
Temperatures And Provide Stable Idling. The Engine Control Module Evaluates The Signals From Each
Sensor (input Signals From (1), (2), (5), (11)), Outputs Current To Terminal Fpu And Controls The Vsv.
3. Diagnosis System
With The Diagnosis System, When There Is A Malfunction In The Engine Control Module Signal System, The
Malfunctioning System Is Recorded In The Memory. The Malfunctioning System Can Be Found By Reading The
Code Displayed By The Malfunction Indicator Lamp.
4. Fail -safe System
When The Malfunction Has Occurred In Any System, If There Is A Possibility Of Engine Trouble Being Caused By
Continued Control Based On The Signals From That System, The Fail-safe System Either Controls The System
By Using Data (standard Values) Recorded In The Engine Control Module Memory Or Else Stops The Engine.

nakman
05-03-2009, 06:53 PM
last diagram

nakman
05-03-2009, 06:53 PM
Service Hints

EFI MAIN RELAY
(2) 2- (2) 4:CLOSED WITH THE IGNITION SW AT ON OR ST POSITION
E 4 (A), E 5 (C), E 6 (B), E 7 (D) ENGINE CONTROL MODULE
(VOLTAGE AT THE ENGINE CONTROL MODULE)
BATT -E1 : ALWAYS 9.0-14.0 VOLTS
IGSW, +B, MRLY-E1 : 9.0-14.0 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON
VCC -E2 : 4.5-5.5 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON
IDL -E2 : 0-3.0 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON AND THROTTLE VALVE FULLY CLOSED
: 9.0-14.0 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON AND THROTTLE VALVE FULLY OPEN
VTA -E2 : 0.3-0.8 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON AND THROTTLE VALVE FULLY CLOSED
: 3.2-4.9 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON AND THROTTLE VALVE FULLY OPEN
THA -E2 : 0.5-3.4 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON AND INTAKE AIR TEMP. 20C (68F)
THW -E2 : 0.2-1.0 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON AND ENGINE COOLANT TEMP. 80C (176F)
STA -E1 : 6.0 VOLTS OR MORE WITH THE CLANKING
IGT -E1 : PULSE GENERATION WITH THE ENGINE IDLING
#10, #20, #30-EO1, EO2 : 9.0-14.0 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON
#40, #50, #60-EO1, EO2 : 9.0-14.0 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON
IGF -E1 : 2.0 VOLTS OR LESS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON
: PULSE GENERATION WITH THE ENGINE IDLING
G1, G2-G- : PULSE GENERATION WITH THE ENGINE IDLING
NE- G- : PULSE GENERATION WITH THE ENGINE IDLING
KNK1, KNK2-E1 : PULSE GENERATION WITH THE ENGINE IDLING
ISC1, ISC2, ISC3, ISC4-E1 : 9.0-14.0 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON
STA -E1 : 9.0-14.0 VOLTS OR LESS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON AND PARK/NEUTRAL POSITION SW AT P OR N POSITION
: 3.0 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON AND PARK/NEUTRAL POSITION SW AT OTHER THAN P OR N POSITION
SPD -E1 : PULSE GENERATION WITH THE IGNITION SW AND ROTATE DRIVING WHEEL SLOWLY
TE1 -E1 : 9.0-14.0 VOLTS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON AND DATA LINK CONNECTOR 1 TE1-E1 NOT CONNECTED
: 1.5 VOLTS OR LESS WITH THE IGNITION SW ON AND DATA LINK CONNECTOR 1 TE1-E1 CONNECTED
W -E1 : 9.0-14.0 VOLTS WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING AND NO TROUBLE (MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP OFF)
A/C -E1 : 7.5-14.0 VOLTS WITH THE AIR CONDITIONING ON
: 1.5 VOLTS OR LESS WITH THE AIR CONDITIONING OFF
STP -E1 : 7.5-14.0 VOLTS WITH THE STOP LIGHT SW ON (BRAKE PEDAL DEPRESSED)
: 1.5 VOLTS OR LESS WITH THE STOP LIGHT SW OFF
RESISTANCE AT ENGINE CONTROL MODULE CONNECTORS
(DISCONNECT WIRING CONNECTOR)
IDL -E2 : INFINITY (THROTTLE VALVE FULLY OPEN)
: 2.3 KW OR LESS (THROTTLE VALVE FULLY CLOSED)
VTA -E2 : 2.0-10.2 KW (THROTTLE VALVE FULLY OPEN)
: 0.2-5.7 KW (THROTTLE VALVE FULLY CLOSED)
VCC -E2 : 2.5-5.9 KW
THA -E2 : 2.0-3 .0 KW (INTAKE AIR TEMP. 20C (68F))
THW -E2 : 200-400 W (ENGINE COOLANT TEMP. 80C (176F))
G1,G2-G- : 185-275 W (COLD (-10C (14F) TO 0C (122F))
: 240-325 W (HOT (50C (122F) TO 100C (212F)
NE -G- : 185-275 W (COLD (-10C (14F) TO 0C (122F))
: 240-325 W (HOT (50C (122F) TO 100C (212F)
ISC1, ISC2, ISC3, ISC4-+B : 10-30 W
I 1 IDLE AIR CONTROL VALVE
5-4, 6 : 10-30 W
2-1, 3 : 10-30 W
I 4, I 5, I 6, I 7, I 8, I 9 INJECTOR
1-2 : 12-16 W
H 5, H 6 HEATED OXYGEN SENSOR (BANK 1 SENSOR 1, BANK 1 SENSOR 2)
1-2 : 5.0-6.5 W
T 1 THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR
1-4 : 2.5-5.9 KW
1-3 : 2.0-10.2 KW WITH THE THROTTLE VALVE FULLY OPEN
: 0.2-5.7 KW WITH THE THROTTLE VALVE FULLY CLOSED
1-2 : INFINITY WITH THE CLEARANCE BETWEEN LEVER AND STOP SCREW 0.75 MM (0.030 IN.)
: 2.3 KW LESS WITH THE CLEARANCE BETWEEN LEVER AND STOP SCREW 0.50 MM (0.020 IN.)
F18 FUEL PUMP [FUEL SENDER]
3-6 : 0.2-3.0 W
F 5 FUEL PUMP RESISTOR
1-2 : APPROX. 0.73 W
E 1 EGR GAS TEMP. SENSOR
1-2 : 69-89 W (50C, 122F)
: 11-15 W (100C, 212F)
: 2-4 W (150 C, 302F)
V 4 VSV (FUEL PRESSURE CONTROL)
1-2 : 37-44 W (20C (68F)
V 3 VSV (EGR)
1-2 : 30-34 W (20C, 68F)
E 3 ENGINE COOLANT TEMP. SENSOR
1-2 : 10-20 KW (-20 C, -4F)
: 4-7 KW (0C, 32F)
: 2-3 KW (20C, 68F)
: 0.9-1.3 KW (40C, 104F)
: 0.4-0.7 KW (60C, 140F)
: 0.2-0.4 KW (80C, 176F)

Last three pages are a table, then two pages listing all of the connectors.

Corbet
05-03-2009, 07:00 PM
Tim, I can not thank you enough for your help.

We are going to get some dinner and pull me back to a campground somewhere for the night.

I have left messages for Kevin and Robbie. Probably PM Christo next and leave a message at the shop. don't Know what else I can do for the night.

Oh and even at max zoom I can not read the diagram above. Not your fualt. Like I said I can't thank you enough. Rising Sun Rocks.

Anyone who knows the location of the AM2 please post a pic with arrow or detail written directions. Keep in mind my phone screen is like 1.5"x3"

Corbet
05-03-2009, 07:01 PM
Tim, I can not thank you enough for your help.

We are going to get some dinner and pull me back to a campground somewhere for the night.

I have left messages for Kevin and Robbie. Probably PM Christo next and leave a message at the shop. don't Know what else I can do for the night.

Oh and even at max zoom I can not read the diagram above. Not your fualt. Like I said I can't thank you enough. Rising Sun Rocks.

Anyone who knows the location of the AM2 please post a pic with arrow or detail written directions. Keep in mind my phone screen is like 1.5"x3"

at least I don't need to be to work until Tuesday.

nakman
05-03-2009, 07:07 PM
Corbet, that first thread that theboomboom posted up seems pretty spot on- his root cause ended up being an aftermarket alarm system they thought was messing things up, but in the process he was able to get his CEL back on by disconnecting the fuel pump. So there's pictures of the fuel pump relay in there as well.. would be a good read if you can get to it?

And do you have access to a laptop? Time to make a new friend at the internet cafe if not, that's what I'd do. Sorry I can't help more, hopefully you hear back from one of the guys you mentioned above.

Corbet
05-03-2009, 07:13 PM
maybe someone could cross post this thread in th 80 tech section of mud with instuctions to post here. If I could cut and paste or even run MUD effectively on this Phone I would.

nakman
05-03-2009, 08:24 PM
Ok done, here's the thread http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/282077-real-time-help-80-wont-start-stuck-moab.html

Hopefully you get a couple calls or posts here tonight.


edit: corbet if you get to a computer that can read .pdf's pull this one down http://www.t63ysup.com/up/1FZ-FE2002.pdf here are a couple shots from it, that you probably can't see but maybe can.

Trapper50cal
05-03-2009, 08:41 PM
Okay, as per Corbet's request, here is an update...

He got done with dinner and on a whim tried the lights, and they came on. So he tried to start it and it started but the Check engine light came on upon starting then went away (could just simply be indicating that the ECU is getting power) but the discharge light came on and stayed on. Which is the reason he pulled over in the first place and how all this started.

He needs a simple way to check the alt to see what its doing or not doing and the vehicle location of AM2

I am looking for it as well

Trapper50cal
05-03-2009, 09:03 PM
Jiggle connector to alt while someone watches the discharge light and see if you can find a loose connection...

Still looking for physical location of AM2

and here's a mud response...

My truck did the same thing once. In may case it was a failed crimp connector on the harness that feeds the fuse box and subsequently the fuse the feeds the ecu. The crimp was a factory one and is just below the carbon can. Give the harness a shake and see if it helps.

Uncle Ben
05-03-2009, 09:08 PM
Okay, as per Corbet's request, here is an update...

He got done with dinner and on a whim tried the lights, and they came on. So he tried to start it and it started but the Check engine light came on upon starting then went away (could just simply be indicating that the ECU is getting power) but the discharge light came on and stayed on. Which is the reason he pulled over in the first place and how all this started.

He needs a simple way to check the alt to see what its doing or not doing and the vehicle location of AM2

I am looking for it as well


Just heard the message Corbett, sorry, thought I lost my phone today but it was in our master bathroom on the floor. It sounds like you might have a critical code that has been there for a bit. When a critical code triggers, depending on what it is it will give you a "shot over the bow." If you ignore the warning failure it will simply just not start. You need to clear the codes! That should get you home. What ever is popping the code needs to get fixed or it will happen again! Critical codes are often ABS, transmission or TPS sensors. Sometimes, even O2 sensor or other emission codes will put it in warning mode also. Have you noticed reduced power? That is usually the first warning. You need a code reader to reset the ECU as pulling the fuse, counting to ten and putting the fuse back in will not do it.

alpendubber
05-03-2009, 09:15 PM
Corbet,

Sorry to hear about the problems, if I knew 80 tech I would drive back out and help you. Hopefully everything works out. Take care.

Aric

Trapper50cal
05-03-2009, 09:15 PM
Latest update:

Alt is throwing 17.86 (at the alt)

Battery shows charge at 12.1

he needs advice on why this may be the case

It seems to me that the alt may "think" this much charge is needed because the battery isn't receiving it all and there is a draw somewhere but I know next to nothing about electric.

Maybe battery isn't holding enough charge and the alt is working overtime to try and get it there to no avail....

Trapper50cal
05-03-2009, 10:40 PM
CDAN may have it...

via TrickyT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickyT
I looked over the 1997 EWD FSM and many if not all of the symptoms described by beno (post #34) and others can be explained due to a intermittent connection between the two white wires running to terminal "B" on the alternator. Look at page 52 - Power Source - in the EWD manual. +12v runs from the main fusible link on the battery through a couple of splice junctions to the alternator, then from the alternator through another connector to several fuses on the fuse block in the passenger compartment. If there was a bad connection between the two wires at the lug on the alternator, power might not be reliably reaching the fuse block. This would affect the ECU, headlights (because there's no power to the headlight auto off "retainer" circuit), shift lock (because there's no power to the stop light switch), and dash illumination (because there's no power to the tail light relay). This theory is easy to test. Next time the headlights (and, by association, engine) fail, move the headlight switch to the "flash" position (pull the lever towards you). This bypasses the headlight retainer relay. If the headlights light up, then power is reaching the headlight relay but not the rest of the circuits "downstream" of that, which includes that part of the fuse block powered by the "main" fusible link. If this is the case, then there has to be a break between splice E7 in the engine compartment and the fuse block, and the most likely candidate is the inherent splice on the terminal lug at the alternator.




Brilliant!

That really makes huge sense and puts a nice bow on the whole thing.

Update:

I followed TrickyT's advice and looked at the wires between the alternator and the fuse box. All the wires in that loom look like they had faced some extreme temperatures. Very brittle and charred. My guess is the corrosion happened after the charring. Here are the pictures:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2425/1031386.jpg
By trapper50cal (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/trapper50cal), shot with KODAK Z650 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=KODAK+Z650+ZOOM+DIGITAL+CAMERA&make=EASTMAN+KODAK+COMPANY) at 2009-05-03

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3756/1031389.jpg
By trapper50cal (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/trapper50cal), shot with KODAK Z650 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=KODAK+Z650+ZOOM+DIGITAL+CAMERA&make=EASTMAN+KODAK+COMPANY) at 2009-05-03

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4384/1031392.jpg
By trapper50cal (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/trapper50cal), shot with KODAK Z650 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=KODAK+Z650+ZOOM+DIGITAL+CAMERA&make=EASTMAN+KODAK+COMPANY) at 2009-05-03


I am going to make a trip to NAPA and see what they have for crimp eyelets, and probably Radio Shack for the wire.

Three Wheel Ben
05-04-2009, 06:32 AM
Sorry, just saw this post.

Fastest way to field test an alternator. key on everything plugged in, pulley should be magnetized (use a small wrench or the like to check).

Unplug connector on back of alternator (key still on) check voltage at 3 wires and check voltage at the main power wire to alternator. They should all be close to battery voltage.

If they are not as listed above then start tracing the appropriate wire to its fuse/relay.

If you have a volt meter you can check the voltage drop between main alternator terminal and battery +. Should be no more than .3v. If above post is the issue then voltage drop will be much higher. Couple of eyelets and heavy gauge wire should fix that.

PMd # if I can help call.

Getting on a plane @ 9:30 this morning.

Good Luck.

Look on the bright side, at lease your not at the top of gold bar rim trying to do this.:eek:

Corbet
05-04-2009, 07:51 AM
good morning cruise moab 09 in your best robin williams voice

rained all night and we are just getting moving. probably do denny's for breakfast.

Got a call from someone in Hawaii last night. I'll try him around noon if we are not fixed before then. don't want to wake him up.

As JT said we left off last night with high voltage 17.86 at the alt main terminal. battery voltage 12.10 at the battery terminals. then the rain came. so I think the problem lies between the two.

But I still don't understand why the starting is intermitant? It will not start now. (no cel when ignation switch turned on). this will make traking voltage drop difficult :)

leiniesred
05-04-2009, 08:01 AM
EFI relay?

Corbet
05-04-2009, 08:16 AM
efi relay tested out in friends truck.

pulley is magnetic

all three pins of alt connector have voltage with a little drop .3-.4 volts

Are you saying to bypass oem system by running heavy wire from main alt post to + battery terminal. any chance of damaging other systems by doing this?

Corbet
05-04-2009, 08:39 AM
CDAN may have it...

via TrickyT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickyT
I looked over the 1997 EWD FSM and many if not all of the symptoms described by beno (post #34) and others can be explained due to a intermittent connection between the two white wires running to terminal "B" on the alternator. Look at page 52 - Power Source - in the EWD manual. +12v runs from the main fusible link on the battery through a couple of splice junctions to the alternator, then from the alternator through another connector to several fuses on the fuse block in the passenger compartment. If there was a bad connection between the two wires at the lug on the alternator, power might not be reliably reaching the fuse block. This would affect the ECU, headlights (because there's no power to the headlight auto off "retainer" circuit), shift lock (because there's no power to the stop light switch), and dash illumination (because there's no power to the tail light relay). This theory is easy to test. Next time the headlights (and, by association, engine) fail, move the headlight switch to the "flash" position (pull the lever towards you). This bypasses the headlight retainer relay. If the headlights light up, then power is reaching the headlight relay but not the rest of the circuits "downstream" of that, which includes that part of the fuse block powered by the "main" fusible link. If this is the case, then there has to be a break between splice E7 in the engine compartment and the fuse block, and the most likely candidate is the inherent splice on the terminal lug at the alternator.




Brilliant!

That really makes huge sense and puts a nice bow on the whole thing.

Update:

I followed TrickyT's advice and looked at the wires between the alternator and the fuse box. All the wires in that loom look like they had faced some extreme temperatures. Very brittle and charred. My guess is the corrosion happened after the charring. Here are the pictures:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2425/1031386.jpg
By trapper50cal (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/trapper50cal), shot with KODAK Z650 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=KODAK+Z650+ZOOM+DIGITAL+CAMERA&make=EASTMAN+KODAK+COMPANY) at 2009-05-03

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3756/1031389.jpg
By trapper50cal (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/trapper50cal), shot with KODAK Z650 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=KODAK+Z650+ZOOM+DIGITAL+CAMERA&make=EASTMAN+KODAK+COMPANY) at 2009-05-03

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4384/1031392.jpg
By trapper50cal (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/trapper50cal), shot with KODAK Z650 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=KODAK+Z650+ZOOM+DIGITAL+CAMERA&make=EASTMAN+KODAK+COMPANY) at 2009-05-03


I am going to make a trip to NAPA and see what they have for crimp eyelets, and probably Radio Shack for the wire.

testing headlight high beam flash (pull back) sometime works sometimes not but twisting lights into stardard on definitely does not.

Corbet
05-04-2009, 09:29 AM
I'm currently idling here in camp with no dash warning lights or cel. voltage at battery is showing 13.86 volts. 14.06 volts at the main alt post.

the crimp on the mail alt connector is pretty torn up. I recrimped it a little. JT should post a pic up soon. But I think I'm cured. Will stop at parts store for some additional band aid parts but I probably try to roll on back to Durango as is. Then dissassemble completely for a proper repair.

nakman
05-04-2009, 10:31 AM
Great news, Corbet! hope today's drive is uneventful.

Trapper50cal
05-04-2009, 10:38 AM
TJ? really? after all we've been through?

Just kidding:D

Here is a pic and update he wanted posted

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/3038/0504090854.jpg
By trapper50cal (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/trapper50cal) at 2009-05-04

Here is what Corbet thinks is the issue, looks a lot like the thread Cdan refered to and what TrickyT thought was the issue....

Corbet wanted me to post this pix and ask if people agreed that it was the culprit.

After he cleaned it off and re-installed, the discharge light went off but it wouldn't idle in Park and at stop lights, but after a while of running it has begun to idle. I suspect the wire below the connection is like the TrickyT photos and is suspect as well....

What do you all think?

Red_Chili
05-04-2009, 10:59 AM
Jeepers this seems to be the year for toasted wiring. The pix look all too familiar.

My harness is still holding well and no codes. Hope the same for you, Corbet!

BLACKGOLD
05-04-2009, 11:17 AM
After he cleaned it off and re-installed, the discharge light went off but it wouldn't idle in Park and at stop lights, but after a while of running it has begun to idle. I suspect the wire below the connection is like the TrickyT photos and is suspect as well....

What do you all think?

I'm no mechanic, but my 80 has done this before...post electrical/sensor issues being resolved. I seem to recall being told that the Computer has to "re-learn" the engine if things have been unplugged/reset/etc, thus the idle will be off for a while, but it will return to normal after a bit of driving.

powderpig
05-04-2009, 11:59 AM
93-94 with the OBD I computers will do this. They need to relearn the proper idle. What some time helps is to warm up the truck. then pull the fuse again, install fuse, start the truck and raise the idle to over 2k for 5 or more minutes. This should help.
If not the other way is to turn off the engine and on several times until the idle comes up to specs.

Trapper50cal
05-04-2009, 12:01 PM
That's what I figured as well

He asked that I post that he is on the road and headed back to Durango

and he Thanks everyone for their assistance!

Corbet
05-04-2009, 03:23 PM
I'm home and all is well. I'll have to fix it proper sometime this week.

Thanks to all who helped me with this. Especially JT and Tim.

And sorry JT guess my micro phone keyboard got the best of my typing abilities. Obviously I was not proof reading my posts.

DaveInDenver
05-04-2009, 03:49 PM
After he cleaned it off and re-installed, the discharge light went off but it wouldn't idle in Park and at stop lights, but after a while of running it has begun to idle. I suspect the wire below the connection is like the TrickyT photos and is suspect as well....

What do you all think?
I think it's just things resetting. My truck did this a week or two ago after I left my lights on all day (round about 10 hours, the voltage meter didn't jump off the left stop!). The battery was f-l-a-t as could be, completely dead. It idled poorly for a day or two, which seemed to be a combination of the ECU being flushed and the alternator heavily loading the engine as the battery charged. The idle dropped to under 500 RPM and it seemed to be struggling to run at all, but after about 2 days it was back to it's normal level of idle weirdness.

rover67
05-04-2009, 08:22 PM
Corbet, sorry we couldn't help.. I saw this post this afternoon :(

corsair23
05-04-2009, 11:08 PM
Sorry to hear about the troubles Corbet but glad you made it home safe!! Awesome help from everyone that stepped up :thumb: