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View Full Version : Vacuum Line Replacement-now 60 runs rough


CBone
05-03-2009, 05:36 PM
Since I'm not at CM, I thought I would replace the vacuum lines on my truck. 36 feet later, I completed the project. I then checked and rechecked my lines to make certain everything was hooked up properly. I followed the emissions FSM and have quadruple checked everything. I like to think I have all the lines in the right place. The picture from the passenger side has been changed, as I did route the line coming out of the PCV wrong. That's been corrected and it still won't run right.

But, the truck is running terribly rough and today would barely start. Not sure what I did wrong or where I missed something.

Any suggestions are very welcome. Thanks in advance.

Carlton

wesintl
05-03-2009, 06:19 PM
blue silicon? what size? If it's not metric and not toyota i've heard you can have vacuum leaks

CBone
05-03-2009, 06:24 PM
Hi Wes,
Tubing is from McMaster-Carr and is metric, same size as OEM. Found out about it on MUD and is used by a lot of 60 guys who want some bling under the hood :D. Funny you mention though about the vacuum, as I here a distinct whistle under the hood that I never heard before. Almost as if I forgot a line or something, but everything is connected.

kvanoort
05-03-2009, 07:15 PM
Nice work Carlton. Would you like me to drive around with you to listen for the whistle?:D

subzali
05-03-2009, 08:43 PM
spray some starting fluid or brake cleaner or something flammable around until you hear the idle go up. Alternately, spray water around with a spray bottle until you hear the idle drop. Then investigate closer and I bet you'll find your leak. May not be the whole problem, but it's a start. Do you have a vacuum gauge? If so plug it into the brake booster hose and check the vacuum, should be around 13" or so IIRC.

Uncle Ben
05-03-2009, 09:18 PM
Propane also works well for getting an idle increase at the vacuum leak and it is much less likely to catch fire if it inadvertently finds a unshielded wire!

MDH33
05-04-2009, 07:22 AM
Carlton, if you want to compare it to my 60 to hunt for any differences, let me know.

corsair23
05-04-2009, 10:51 PM
Carlton,

It's pictures like your first one that make me wonder how a rig runs at all :eek: - Man that looks like a spaghetti mishap :D

Sorry no help on the problem, but kudos for blinging out the engine bay :thumb:

rover67
05-05-2009, 07:51 AM
just be carefull with the ether around the distributor! If it's not sealed well you can have a little wennie roast on your hands!

Red_Chili
05-05-2009, 08:34 AM
Whistle = vacuum leak. DAMHIK.

Crash
05-05-2009, 09:34 AM
Carlton, you know we live about a mile apart and I have plenty of Cruisercare time to share. 303-433-6309

60wag
05-05-2009, 12:43 PM
A vac guage plugged into the intake manifold would confirm a leak but from what is shown in the pix, it looks good. The VSV for the distributor clips into the bracket on the underside of the air cleaner.

CBone
05-08-2009, 02:30 PM
So I'm back and after reading ElliotB's thread on desmogging his 60, I say, keep the 37 feet of vacuum lines cause if nothing else, it provides one helluva challenge :D

With that said, here's where I am and get a snack, cause it's gonna take some time. I spent some time with Kvanoort testing each VTV, VSV and VCV and rechecking the connections--everything is good now. Crash and I went through a few more things, including checking the timing. The truck is still running rough, really rough.

A few notes that may or may not have relevance to someone's thinking.
1. When I purchased the truck in Sept. it failed emissions, the boys at Stevinson West charged me a little bit and got it to pass. Couldn't explain what they did, but it was cheap, they got it to pass, so I didn't question it. Besides, I'd only owned the truck 2 days--I had no idea what I was getting into.
2. When I replaced the lines, I originally did one line at a time replacing them exactly as they were on the truck. I drove 500 yards and she started coughing, stalled and I knew we had the swine flu at that point! After that happen, I pulled the truck back into the garage and realized that in a few different places the PO had routed the lines incorrectly, according to the FSM, so I went back and rerouted exactly as the FSM stated. I did not take pics of before and cannot remember which lines went where.
3. VSV(2) for AI was completely disconnected when I went back to set things straight by way of the FSM. I reconnected that.
4. The VCV that comes off the distributor was not working--determined when testing all those with Kvanoort. I've since replaced it with a working one.
5. Here's a strange one...the fuel filter, which always was full of fuel now only keeps about an inch in teh bottom (may not be related, but definitely different from before).

So, with those things said, I've seen folks offering a $1000 if you help them get a job and I've got nothing like that to offer. I've got a 6 pack of beer I'll bring over and a ton of thanks if someone can help me get this straight. Thanks in advance for your suggestions and thanks also to all of those who have helped me try and tackle this.

BreckBJ44
05-08-2009, 02:48 PM
Do yourself a favor. Get a P.O. Box up here in Breck and desmog the rig!

I loved getting rid of all of that poop on my (now sold) 86 60.

K

corsair23
05-08-2009, 03:01 PM
5. Here's a strange one...the fuel filter, which always was full of fuel now only keeps about an inch in teh bottom (may not be related, but definitely different from before).

Seems too coincidental :confused: - possibly clogged fuel line or bad fuel pump? Is there a filter "sock" in the tank that could be plugged up. Full tank of gas or real low where you might be sucking up crud off the bottom?

I'd come drink your beer but you wouldn't be any further along on getting to the bottom of the problem :hill:

BreckBJ44
05-08-2009, 03:08 PM
I had a major issue with my afore mentioned 60 when I put BG44K in the tank. It did a great job of cleaning out my system, but I had to open up my carb to clean crap out of my needle valve as the BG44K loosened a ton of crap out of my tank. Some of it plugged my filter and some even got into the carb. did you put in any fuel system cleaner?

Change the filter and see if you have crap at the inlet. From many expensive idiot moments, I'd recommend changing the cheap stuff first!

CBone
05-08-2009, 03:18 PM
Both fuel pump and fuel filter were installed in Dec. and have less than 300 miles on them. Both are OEM. Crash also mentioned the fuel issue, I'm not sure if there is a fuel sock or whatever you called it before the fuel filter that may have caught something. I will check filter to see if anything is clogging the line there.

subzali
05-08-2009, 03:40 PM
If you're going to check fuel, take the top off the carb and check the float bowl and see if it has junk in it. Mine did at one point.

MDH33
05-08-2009, 07:48 PM
Carlton, if the sight glass is half full when it's running, then fuel delivery probably isn't the issue (unless contaminated as suggested). Did you check the EGR and vacuum modulator? Those are notorious on FJ60's and if one or the other wasn't connected correctly before you began, you might now have a correctly connected faulty component. Pull vacuum on the EGR and it should stall your engine at idle. Open up the vacuum modulator and clean out the filter, they get clogged over time and cause the EGR to not work properly. Also, look inside the air lines from the smog pump and make sure that your pump isn't disintegrating into the lines clogging them. :beer:

Crash
05-08-2009, 08:25 PM
Martin, as it stands now, the truck won't run at idle at all and it acted as if the EGR was possibly dumping directly into the intake when it shouldn't be. Carlton, if you have a vacuum gauge, run the EGR system tests as described in the FSM. If you don't have a gauge let me know and I will run one by this weekend and we can run the tests together since the truck won't run by itself at idle.

Carlton, if the sight glass is half full when it's running, then fuel delivery probably isn't the issue (unless contaminated as suggested). Did you check the EGR and vacuum modulator? Those are notorious on FJ60's and if one or the other wasn't connected correctly before you began, you might now have a correctly connected faulty component. Pull vacuum on the EGR and it should stall your engine at idle. Open up the vacuum modulator and clean out the filter, they get clogged over time and cause the EGR to not work properly. Also, look inside the air lines from the smog pump and make sure that your pump isn't disintegrating into the lines clogging them. :beer:

CBone
05-08-2009, 08:36 PM
Steve,
Sent you a PM about setting up a time, as I do not have a vacuum gauge.

Martin, those are great ideas, thanks. The window in the carb has fuel right to where it should, but i will check for an obstruction before the filter.

Also, without a vacuum gauge Kvanoort and I were limited, but we did run the tests we could on the EGR Modulator and found it did not work due to a clogged filter. I removed the filter and it worked fine, as it should as detailed in the FSM. The EGR itself needs to be tested with the vacuum gauge and a foot on the gas pedal, for the reasons Steve described.

Thanks everyone for your continued suggestions. This is what you get when you go to add bling to a 25 year old truck :confused: nah, the lines I replaced were old and cracked, so this needed to happen anyway.

MDH33
05-08-2009, 09:04 PM
Carlton, did you try disconnecting the EGR to see if it would idle? Just remove the vacuum line from the EGR and plug it. To test the EGR, you can just "pull vacuum" with your mouth to do a quick test, it doesn't take much "vacuum" to engage the diaphragm in the EGR. :)