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nuclearlemon
05-17-2009, 08:19 AM
Rollins Pass Restoration Association Meeting

Meadows Library in Boulder
4800 Baseline Rd # C112
Boulder, CO 80303
(303) 441-4390


Monday 5-18-09
6:30 PM

powderpig
05-17-2009, 07:43 PM
I plan on being there, the boss said it was OK too

cbmontgo
05-17-2009, 08:12 PM
What is the meeting for? Cleaning up the trail or will some things be done up at the tunnel?

nuclearlemon
05-17-2009, 09:09 PM
the rollins pass restoraton society is trying to get the tunnel opened back up:thumb:

jacdaw
05-17-2009, 11:39 PM
the rollins pass restoraton society is trying to get the tunnel opened back up:thumb:With the train not running anymore, there's choices. Would be very cool to have the tunnel open again.

rover67
05-17-2009, 11:47 PM
i'm going to try to be there.

Red_Chili
05-18-2009, 08:34 AM
With the train not running anymore, there's choices. Would be very cool to have the tunnel open again.
:confused:
The Moffat Tunnel is one of the busiest routes on the UP. Just as Uncle Dave envisioned it would be.

The last train to run over Rollins Pass was the one in 1935 that pulled up the rails!! :p:

http://ghostdepot.com/rg/mainline/moffat%20route/rollins%20pass.htm

I wish I could go to the meeting. Sumbunny go for me!!!!

cbmontgo
05-18-2009, 08:36 AM
the rollins pass restoraton society is trying to get the tunnel opened back up:thumb:

That would be very cool.

powderpig
05-18-2009, 09:56 PM
What a cool group of people that want something done. Anyhow interesting meeting with a old movie from the 50's, that was narartied by a guy in his 80's. Had to be there to understand. Anyhow Some adventure rider guys showed up as well. Marco, Bruce and I showed up to listen and talk a bit. There was some interest from them about being part of our club or a alignment of some sort. We can discuss this. I think we can help by writing to the Boulder county folks to open this road back up. they have some funds they are willing to spend to do studies and such. Mostly these folks are a bit too nice. They have Mark Udall on board that if the other 2 counties involved want a road open, then Bolder county needs to work it out to make it happen. Well Boulder is holding out. With more people writing to make this happen, it may sooner than later.
I think If we can get Cohvco on board and maybe Mile high Jeep club, and anyone else that would like this road open, they may finally see the light at the end of the tunnel!!! (maybe one day I will learn to spell).
Anyhow maybe Bruce and Marco will speak a bit.
There was a guy with a model of a car loading system for trains, that he had modeled after the old Whitter system they used for a bunch of year in Alaska. His idea was to load vehicles on the train for the 6 mile ride to Winterpark then unload there.
Depending on traffic, they could do how Whitter is now, one way car traffic when no trains are coming. Anyhow a evening well spent.

MDH33
05-18-2009, 10:39 PM
Great you guys could make it! :thumb:

So, is that group talking about opening it as another train route, a road, or an OHV route only?

What a cool group of people that want something done. Anyhow interesting meeting with a old movie from the 50's, that was narartied by a guy in his 80's. Had to be there to understand. Anyhow Some adventure rider guys showed up as well. Marco, Bruce and I showed up to listen and talk a bit. There was some interest from them about being part of our club or a alignment of some sort. We can discuss this. I think we can help by writing to the Boulder county folks to open this road back up. they have some funds they are willing to spend to do studies and such. Mostly these folks are a bit too nice. They have Mark Udall on board that if the other 2 counties involved want a road open, then Bolder county needs to work it out to make it happen. Well Boulder is holding out. With more people writing to make this happen, it may sooner than later.
I think If we can get Cohvco on board and maybe Mile high Jeep club, and anyone else that would like this road open, they may finally see the light at the end of the tunnel!!! (maybe one day I will learn to spell).
Anyhow maybe Bruce and Marco will speak a bit.
There was a guy with a model of a car loading system for trains, that he had modeled after the old Whitter system they used for a bunch of year in Alaska. His idea was to load vehicles on the train for the 6 mile ride to Winterpark then unload there.
Depending on traffic, they could do how Whitter is now, one way car traffic when no trains are coming. Anyhow a evening well spent.

jacdaw
05-18-2009, 10:49 PM
What a cool group of people that want something done.<snip> Thanks for the report Robbie, looking forward to progress on this effort.

Bill, thanks for the education and link. Tunnel 31, not Moffat, gotcha.

Uncle Ben
05-18-2009, 11:43 PM
Thank you guys for attending!!!!!:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

powderpig
05-19-2009, 06:31 AM
They RPRA would like to see it as a vehicle(car, truck, etc) or county road that it is. They really do not want to see the last tunnel go (needles eye). But if it must to open the road they will give in on that minor point. I beleive it was mentioned that Udall would like to see it as a 2 lane county rd over to Winterpark. But the tunnel would not support the width.
What we ended up doing is being some hope that more people are interested then just them. The more people write in to the county commisniers the harder it is to ingnore what is right for us the people of the state.
Anyhow the RPRA is looking into seeing what it may cost to buy some copies of the movie from Carnagie foundation. That may be a small money stream for them as well as something that generates interest to open the pass.

nuclearlemon
05-19-2009, 08:26 AM
crap, while in panic mode to get some stuff done, i totally spaced the meeting:mad: thanks so much to those that did attend! :bowdown:

here's another sum up from steve green, who's been very involved...

Hi All,

The Rollins Pass Restoration Association (RPRA) meeting tonight was a great step towards uniting two diverse and different groups who share a common goal.

The RPRA is mostly comprised or history and railroad buffs. A large percentage of their membership is well up in their years. On the surface you would think they are a completely different cross section of society. This is good. It shows that it is not only OHV operators who want this road opened. It allies us with a very different group than I am not used to seeing off roaders allied with. They are very happy to have had both the Rising Sun 4WD club and us ADV dualsport folks there tonight. They also recognize that our mutual interest in opening this road will add strength to the fight.

It was stated that the main impediment to the opening the pass is the politics of the Boulder County Commissioners.

It was also stated that Mark Udall put in writing in a letter that he was in favor of opening the Rollins Pass RR grade if any one of the Counties it passes through requested it be opened. It seems he has not acted to fulfill his statements thus far since both Gilpin and Grand counties have both requested that the road be opened. I requested a copy of this letter and will post it once I get it.

The RPRA past president said that it would take very little money to open the road. Just a little clean up of fallen rocks in the Needle's Eye tunnel, a couple of rock bolts and some inspection. Basically they felt it could be opened for under $10K. The RPRA has over $60K in their coffers.

At this point their main suggest is to write the Boulder County Commissioners and request that they open this historic old route. The plan is to put pressure on the Commissioners and eventually get a venue for a meeting with them.

Everybody, take a moment and write the Boulder County Commissioners.

If you send me a copy of the letter I will send them on to the RPRA for their files.

Thanks,

Steve Green


it looks like all three commissioners share one email, it is commissioners@co.boulder.co.us

these are the three commissioners.
cindy domenico
ben pearlman
will toor

i'm off to do some letter writing

MDH33
05-19-2009, 08:40 AM
Would Boulder be more receptive if a club (like Rising Sun) offered to adopt it as a trail and keep it maintained as a 4 wheel drive only route? It seems one of their concerns is with overuse, which would be exacerbated if the road was "improved" to allow less capable vehicles to travel the route.

Also, does anyone know if the Omnibus Land bill that recently passed included the expansion of Indian Peaks that might have made some of this area wilderness?

nuclearlemon
05-19-2009, 10:39 AM
less capable vehicles to travel the route.
?

I don't think they have a fondness for "less capable vehicle" ;)

Ron Helmuth
05-19-2009, 11:43 AM
great report on the meeting. Could someone elaborate more on this "Whittier" plan of allowing vehicle traffic through a railroad tunnel?


We need more creative thinking like that

Perhaps I am misunderstanding.

powderpig
05-19-2009, 11:57 AM
No formal Whitter plan. This gentleman Named Steve would like to see the rail road either use the old Whitter format, Which is what the Swiss are using in some of the tunnels systems over there. Steve's plan is in response to the Ski train being bought out and not being used any more. So no more ski train in the future.
Basically they would have two load/unloading platforms one on each side of Moffit tunnel(one being used today). The tunnel is only 6.2 miles long. The train would act as a shuttle to get vehicles back and forth for a Toll. I did not talk to Steve much(not to be confussed with Steve G above), about who he has talked to. With a few car trailers, one can transport about 3-5 vehicles on each trailer. People stay in there own cars for the ride. Get off on the other side. I would think this would happen a few time a day, not a schedule where it goes back and forth all day long.
The new Whitter car deal is, they paved the 2 tunnels and allow one way traffic to go at certain times. The drive is about 15 miles (if I remember). And when the train comes the car traffic is closed. This would make the most sense to me and the Tunnel is only 6 miles long. Unless they have ventalation currently this would be a big cost to update the tunnel.
I really did like riding the train out to Whitter a couple times of year. It was a great access to Prince William Sound. Great fishing, kyaking, hunting, yes even some killer back county skiing off of boats.

60wag
05-19-2009, 03:52 PM
It'd be a cool project to estimate the cost of. If you could fit the Whittier style train in with the coal train schedule, it might be really cheap to set up a pilot program to see how many people would use it.

MDH33
05-19-2009, 05:50 PM
Where would the loading/unloading happen? The road to and from the Moffat tunnel couldn't handle the traffic.

nuclearlemon
05-19-2009, 07:39 PM
unless you guys have all written to the commissioners, i don't want to see you screwing off online;)

powderpig
05-19-2009, 08:23 PM
CRACK THE WHIP GIRL:eek:
Yes Martin the current road could not handle the traffic. Infrastructure is what it is all about. Rollingsville is wanting more people to flow through their little town. They want some money flowing in the area(at least according to the one guy that was at this meeting).
Anyhow just ideas flowing, I personally think we need a couple more ways over the divide, I 70 is just not my style.

rover67
05-19-2009, 09:01 PM
So Robbie has given a great summary of the meeting here... but I'll try to add and reiterate.

It seemed like a great group of folks that were very interested in preserving the history of the area through an effort to reopen the road. Many folks that had driven or ridden the road originally when it was open were there (rollin's pass) and just wanted to be able to have that opportunity again. The Video was definitly cool and gave me info I had always kind of wondered about... hopefully there will be some copies circulating or for sale that others can enjoy also.

The cool thing about the meeting was that it brought together a few groups that all had a common intrest.. the Dual Sport guys, Rising Sun, Rollinsville residents (Historical Society organizer I think) and the Rollins Pass Restoration Society. Each group had a different angle and motive, but a very similar goal which is to have Rollins Pass open again. It seemed like the Restoration Society group was more focused on the Rollins Pass road than the Boulder Wagon Road which was interesting.


Steve Green was there (the gentleman from Adventure rider ("esteban" on the forum)) and he was able to get a ton of info from the Restoration Society. It was interesting that there were a few groups interested in the same goal that did not know of each other. He noted that. Honestly I think that Steve is the one that might bring it all together. He seems to have the most collective knowledge about the situation and seems very motivated. I think that the best thing we can do is write the letters at least for now.. but can't really grasp what the next real steps might be. One additional thing to note is that the Restoration Society has a pretty large amount of money that it sounds like they'd be willing to use to help open the road if they knew how to apply it.

Ron Helmuth
05-20-2009, 12:09 PM
thanks for the supplemental info powderpig.

Sure seems logical to me that Winter Park would want a more direct way to get Denver Metro area skiers to their location.

If Central City could find the money and was able to blow in a new road from Hidden Valley then Winter Park/Granby/Grand Lake should be able to find a way to get a new access point from the Central City/Rollinsville side of the Divide.


Glad to hear it is at least being discussed. Glad to see smarter minds at work on it.

Uncle Ben
05-20-2009, 12:39 PM
thanks for the supplemental info powderpig.

Sure seems logical to me that Winter Park would want a more direct way to get Denver Metro area skiers to their location.

If Central City could find the money and was able to blow in a new road from Hidden Valley then Winter Park/Granby/Grand Lake should be able to find a way to get a new access point from the Central City/Rollinsville side of the Divide.


Glad to hear it is at least being discussed. Glad to see smarter minds at work on it.


It would be a summer crossing as during the winter it would cost way to much to keep it open!

subzali
05-20-2009, 12:44 PM
If they use the Moffat Tunnel I bet it wouldn't take too much to keep it open. But yes if they are trying to get Rollins Pass open and keep it opened in the winter that would be a heck of a lot of work/money!

Uncle Ben
05-20-2009, 01:12 PM
If they use the Moffat Tunnel I bet it wouldn't take too much to keep it open. But yes if they are trying to get Rollins Pass open and keep it opened in the winter that would be a heck of a lot of work/money!

Besides the fact that if they kept it open 4 seasons it would need to be graded which means the idiot quotient that would increase on Jenny Creek would be staggering leading to eminent closure! Catch 22....like always....

nuclearlemon
08-04-2009, 06:55 PM
in case anyone wants to know where the other two counties stand.

powderpig
08-04-2009, 07:05 PM
Good to see it in writing.
Now to see what Boulders response will be.

nuclearlemon
08-04-2009, 08:02 PM
i emailed them a few months ago and they said that there just wasn;t the money (after i pointed out that there were a few clubs interested in adopting the trail and all would "put their money where the mouth was"). i responded that rpra, rising sun, and others had the money available for most of the work and we could easily get grants. they never responded back. :rolleyes:

Red_Chili
08-05-2009, 10:21 AM
Besides the fact that if they kept it open 4 seasons it would need to be graded which means the idiot quotient that would increase on Jenny Creek would be staggering leading to eminent closure! Catch 22....like always....
Gatekeeper obstacles. Simple deal.

Of course, with Boulder nothing is simple.

I think Jenny Creek's days are numbered because of the left-leaning RD coupled with a cozy relationship with the Sierra Club. Will the 4x4, dualsport motorcycle, and ATV communities push back? HARD? Remains to be seen.

MDH33
08-05-2009, 11:42 AM
I haven't seen the maps, but there was an expansion to the Indian Peaks Wilderness when the Omnibus Land Bill passed this year. I was curious if that expansion was in order to connect James Peak and Indian Peak, which would eliminate this road?

Red_Chili
08-05-2009, 12:11 PM
Nope. It just straightened out some discrepancies to the original boundaries elsewhere for the most part. I sat up and took notice when I heard it was coming, but no worries.

nuclearlemon
08-05-2009, 06:04 PM
got an email from Charles Wells...


"Your Help Is Needed

At the request of Jerry Panek of Predator 4-Wheel Drive, wh! o has worked many years on this project on behalf of four-wheelers everywhere who have missed these great trails, Id like to ask you to please take a few minutes to send a letter to commissioners at Teller County thanking them for their efforts in getting these trails designated as county roads. We are often quick to complain about government actions and we sometimes forget that our government is made up of real people. In this case, real people in Teller County worked hard to get this done. Send letters to: Teller County Commissioners, P.O. Box 959, Cripple Creek, CO 80813.

And while youre at it, now would be an opportune time to send a letter to Park County commissioners, who are presently weighing the pros and cons of designating as county roads the closed parts of the trails along the river. Send letters to: Park County Commissioners, P.O Box 1373, Fairplay, CO 80440."


he recently drove all three and posted a revised map and some pics.

sank
08-17-2009, 06:24 PM
I don't have an FJ (as fun as it would be) but I am interested in the reopening of the tunnel and in helping with the general maintenance of the area. Too bad I missed your work day 2 weeks ago. Thanks for being front runners in land use.

I found you guys from google searching something about camping and Yankee Doodle (my plans for the weekend), and came up with a number of interesting posts from Red_Chili on various topics.

So, here I am formally subscribing to the rollins pass restoration thread.

Cheers!

Red_Chili
08-17-2009, 06:33 PM
Awesome, Sank, and welcome!!
You will find numerous opportunities to do land use work here. AxleIke is our Land Use Coordinator this year and 'owns' the Yankee Doodle trail team, and Subzali is very active with (and 'owns') the Argentine Pass area (great accessible camping near streams).