Rising Sun Member Forums  

Go Back   Rising Sun Member Forums > Toyota 4x4 > General Tech Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-07-2011, 01:32 PM
PhatFJ's Avatar
PhatFJ PhatFJ is offline
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Trinidad, CO
Posts: 575
Default Diesel conversions

So, I have been reading up a bit on different diesel conversions and thought I would start a thread on the subject. My 1970 FJ40 has an GM 5.7L, is mated to an SM465 and 3spd. Transfer case, runs ok, does great on the trail but, I am not thrilled with the gas mileage and subsequently the range even when I have 36 gallons of fuel capacity. I have been looking into diesel conversions not only for the mileage but the longevity of the motor and potential of using bio-fuel. I have read many posts about the "B" series Toyota motors and have come to the conclusion that price and parts availability is the biggest drawback to this choice. The Cummins 4BT seems like a good choice, good price and parts seem very available, I am not sure that they will have the necessary power but maybe. The last but not least is the MB OM617 (300TD) like Justin put into one of his customers. Very available at a good price, parts are also very available; the motor puts out good power and will run for a very long time. Many people have converted these motors to bio-fuel as well. The other thing I like is that Luke over at 4x4 Labs makes an adaptor plate to bolt up to a GM transmission like my SM465. Luke also states on his site that I can reuse fuel tanks and lines in place. In conclusion, I am thinking that this conversion could run somewhere around $2500.00 with me doing all my own fabrication and setup, I would double my gas mileage and the motor will last a very long time. At the price of fuel these days I think this may be a good way to go. Any thoughts?
__________________
KD0GEG
1970 FJ40

trail rig
Trinidad, CO
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-07-2011, 01:35 PM
subzali's Avatar
subzali subzali is offline
Rising Sun member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 7,511
Default

I would think a 4BT would have all the power you would want.

What about the Isuzu diesels?
__________________
Matt Miller
"Stay the Trail," "Tread Lightly," and "Leave No Trace" ethics
TLCA# 13684
Rising Sun Bio
1977 FJ40 2F "Brahma" + Lockright, tach, Warn 8274, FJ60 Power Steering, soon to lose the Sanden OBA to go back to factory emissions
1996 FZJ80 1FZ-FE factory lockers + Safari Turbo , CDL switch, cup holder, AATLAS1X leather, heated seats and JDM switches
2000 Tundra Limited TRD 2UZ-FE SOLD
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-07-2011, 01:41 PM
PhatFJ's Avatar
PhatFJ PhatFJ is offline
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Trinidad, CO
Posts: 575
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subzali View Post
I would think a 4BT would have all the power you would want.

What about the Isuzu diesels?
Although it seems parts are quite available for the 4BT, I have had problems finding a 4BT running at a reasonable price, seems most want around 3K just for the motor (well used). The adaptor is going to run around an additional grand.

I have not looked into Isuzu at all and know nothing about them. Do you have any information or experience with them?
__________________
KD0GEG
1970 FJ40

trail rig
Trinidad, CO
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-07-2011, 01:48 PM
corsair23's Avatar
corsair23 corsair23 is offline
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Littleton
Posts: 8,697
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatFJ View Post
In conclusion, I am thinking that this conversion could run somewhere around $2500.00 with me doing all my own fabrication and setup, I would double my gas mileage and the motor will last a very long time. At the price of fuel these days I think this may be a good way to go. Any thoughts?
The factor aside, how long would it take you to recoup the investment based on the gas savings?

I don't DD my 40...Actually I rarely drive my 40 - Is the 40 your DD?

I guess what I'm saying is basing the decision on the fact that you will get better gas mileage might not be the best business case

If you get 10 mpg now and bump that up to 20 mpg with the conversion, and using $4/gal as the average for fuel...At 10 mpg a mile costs you $.40 vs. $.20 with a diesel. My math is probably wrong but break even doesn't come until 12,500 miles. Of course if gas stays lower than $4/gal it will take longer to pay off the cost of the conversion - @ $3.50/gal the payoff comes after about 14,300 miles...Then again if gas goes up to $5/gal the payoff comes at 10K miles. I know I'm not taking into account the price difference of gas vs. diesel so that would play in there a bit.

Now if the 5.7L V8 dies and you need to replace the engine anyway
__________________
Jeff Z. (the "not quite as skinny" one)
TLCA #17037
'97 LX450 - aka "The Whale"
'97 FZJ80 Antique Sage AE #267, stock
12/74 FJ40, 2F, SM420, 4" Lift, ARBs, 33" MTRs

:

"...anything else i can do for you guys, how about i wash your car or mow your lawn while you figure out your firewall system? I am now boarderline insane/unibomber." Kipper

"That assumes I'm even capable of pulling and stabbing..." Jacket

"I really like having a detachable unit." Beater
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-07-2011, 01:56 PM
subzali's Avatar
subzali subzali is offline
Rising Sun member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 7,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatFJ View Post
Although it seems parts are quite available for the 4BT, I have had problems finding a 4BT running at a reasonable price, seems most want around 3K just for the motor (well used). The adaptor is going to run around an additional grand.

I have not looked into Isuzu at all and know nothing about them. Do you have any information or experience with them?
No, but here's after a quick search where I have seen them talked about:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-...bd1t-swap.html

Isn't the Mercedes engine a car engine?
__________________
Matt Miller
"Stay the Trail," "Tread Lightly," and "Leave No Trace" ethics
TLCA# 13684
Rising Sun Bio
1977 FJ40 2F "Brahma" + Lockright, tach, Warn 8274, FJ60 Power Steering, soon to lose the Sanden OBA to go back to factory emissions
1996 FZJ80 1FZ-FE factory lockers + Safari Turbo , CDL switch, cup holder, AATLAS1X leather, heated seats and JDM switches
2000 Tundra Limited TRD 2UZ-FE SOLD
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-07-2011, 04:04 PM
art hog art hog is offline
Cruise Moab Committee
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: rollinsville Co
Posts: 414
Default

My 4BT in my 55 gets about 24-mpg driving from Rollinsville to Boulder on average. On the hwy it is closer to 30-mpg. I have plenty of power. You will not get that kind of mileage with a 4sp. You need an overdrive. I have a NV4500. You will also need to do a spring over and switch to FJ60 axles or mod the oil pan. There is a 3.3 cummins that is very nice but $$$$$$. Also from what I understand to run biofuels, ie: veggie oil you will need an aluminum fuel tank. Steel creates a scale on the inside of the tank and flakes off and messes everything up. So I have been told. I would go with the 300-td.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-07-2011, 05:08 PM
Woodsman's Avatar
Woodsman Woodsman is offline
Trail Ready
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Batesville, Indiana
Posts: 305
Default

You can't always justify dropping a diesel into an older rig with just fuel numbers. You get the benefits or better low-end power, more mileage per tank and you'll be able to do many trail runs without taking any extra fuel where you may have taken 5-10 extra in gas.

When dealing with a new vehicle, IMO, it is very easy to justify the extra purchase price (if you have that kind of extra changing in your piggy back) because the "diesel option" is generally about how much more the vehicle will be worth even when used. In other words, you'll get your money back.

Of course, you could also be a dork like my cousin and sink over $24K in your Cummins for pulling at the county fairs. Of course, he's almost 27 and still living with mom and dad.
__________________
- - - - - - - - -
08 FJ Cruiser with a few mods
TLCA#19287 -Since 12/08
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-07-2011, 06:15 PM
art hog art hog is offline
Cruise Moab Committee
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: rollinsville Co
Posts: 414
Default

My reason to go diesel was to be able to run WVO. The 2f, V8 motors are not economically viable in this world IMO. who knows where the price and the availability of fossil fuels will be in the future. If the 1% have there way, I won't be able to afford it. So a diesel is a better option for me. Plus I have a 53 gal fuel tank, at 30 mpg I have close to a 1500 mile range. I have a map of every donut shop in the US and canada. I plan my trips by this map. If we could just go back to running hemp oil, We would not need all the forign oil.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-07-2011, 06:17 PM
PhatFJ's Avatar
PhatFJ PhatFJ is offline
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Trinidad, CO
Posts: 575
Default

First and foremost, thank you all for the input!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair23 View Post
The factor aside, how long would it take you to recoup the investment based on the gas savings?

I don't DD my 40...Actually I rarely drive my 40 - Is the 40 your DD?

I guess what I'm saying is basing the decision on the fact that you will get better gas mileage might not be the best business case

If you get 10 mpg now and bump that up to 20 mpg with the conversion, and using $4/gal as the average for fuel...At 10 mpg a mile costs you $.40 vs. $.20 with a diesel. My math is probably wrong but break even doesn't come until 12,500 miles. Of course if gas stays lower than $4/gal it will take longer to pay off the cost of the conversion - @ $3.50/gal the payoff comes after about 14,300 miles...Then again if gas goes up to $5/gal the payoff comes at 10K miles. I know I'm not taking into account the price difference of gas vs. diesel so that would play in there a bit.

Now if the 5.7L V8 dies and you need to replace the engine anyway
I agree, the return on investment will bee a while. I will be able to sell the 5.7 ready to drop into another project fairly easily which will help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subzali View Post
No, but here's after a quick search where I have seen them talked about:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-...bd1t-swap.html

Isn't the Mercedes engine a car engine?
Wow, that thread is big!! lot's of information.. I did do a couple of searches on CL and e-bay, it seems that the isuzu motor is quite pricey as well, if you can find a newer one with lower miles the price jumps way up. The MB 300td seems to be VERY available and affordable. I found one with 144k and can pick it up for $850.00, the rebuild cost of the 300td is high and some recommend that it is better to buy a used one OEM built rather than rebuilding one. The 300td is a car diesel and it has PS, Air cond, and other options that some of these industrial motors do not have on them as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by art hog View Post
My 4BT in my 55 gets about 24-mpg driving from Rollinsville to Boulder on average. On the hwy it is closer to 30-mpg. I have plenty of power. You will not get that kind of mileage with a 4sp. You need an overdrive. I have a NV4500. You will also need to do a spring over and switch to FJ60 axles or mod the oil pan. There is a 3.3 cummins that is very nice but $$$$$$. Also from what I understand to run biofuels, ie: veggie oil you will need an aluminum fuel tank. Steel creates a scale on the inside of the tank and flakes off and messes everything up. So I have been told. I would go with the 300-td.
Thanks for the info!! I did not know that about biofule. Is the 4BT itself that tall or does the turbo extend up so high that you have to mount it lower in the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
You can't always justify dropping a diesel into an older rig with just fuel numbers. You get the benefits or better low-end power, more mileage per tank and you'll be able to do many trail runs without taking any extra fuel where you may have taken 5-10 extra in gas.

When dealing with a new vehicle, IMO, it is very easy to justify the extra purchase price (if you have that kind of extra changing in your piggy back) because the "diesel option" is generally about how much more the vehicle will be worth even when used. In other words, you'll get your money back.

Of course, you could also be a dork like my cousin and sink over $24K in your Cummins for pulling at the county fairs. Of course, he's almost 27 and still living with mom and dad.
As far as value goes I think so too, I have owned several diesels including heavy equipment and they really hold their value as long as you take care of them.
__________________
KD0GEG
1970 FJ40

trail rig
Trinidad, CO
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-07-2011, 06:20 PM
Uncle Ben's Avatar
Uncle Ben Uncle Ben is offline
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Louisville, Colorado
Posts: 13,129
Send a message via AIM to Uncle Ben
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by art hog View Post
My reason to go diesel was to be able to run WVO. The 2f, V8 motors are not economically viable in this world IMO. who knows where the price and the availability of fossil fuels will be in the future. If the 1% have there way, I won't be able to afford it. So a diesel is a better option for me. Plus I have a 53 gal fuel tank, at 30 mpg I have close to a 1500 mile range. I have a map of every donut shop in the US and canada. I plan my trips by this map. If we could just go back to running hemp oil, We would not need all the forign oil.
That hemp oil is affecting your spelling!
__________________
KUBN
Kevin
TLCA #3007
Northside!

Colorado Trail Patrol
Stay on the Trail!
I'm the God-fearing, gun-toting, American flag-waving, conservative you were warned about!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxleIke View Post
I need an FJ40....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Chili View Post
Cruisers are superior
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.